What moves can never hit for super effective damage?

[khlaylav]

Type advantage is one of the key mechanics in Pokémon. While 17 out of 18 types can hit at least one other type for super effective damage, one type stands alone: Normal. Normal type can hit everything but Rock, Ghost and Steel for neutral damage, while hitting one of those other three types deals not very effective damage or no damage at all.

Thus, this is me, bored on a Monday asking: What moves can never hit for super effective damage?*

-ate for the win

Normally (heh), Normal type moves can never hit for super effective damage. But thanks to the abilities that change Normal type moves into other types, that is the only time they can hit super effectively. So let's list off all Normal type attacking moves first:

Barrage, Bide, Bind, Body Slam, Boomburst, Chip Away, Comet Punch, Constrict, Covet, Crush Claw, Crush Grip, Cut, Dizzy Punch, Double Hit, Double Slap, Double-Edge, Echoed Voice, Egg Bomb, Explosion, Extreme Speed, Facade, Fake Out, False Swipe, Feint, Flail, Frustration, Fury Attack, Fury Swipes, Giga Impact, Head Charge, Headbutt, Hidden Power, Hold Back, Horn Attack, Hyper Beam, Hyper Fang, Hyper Voice, Judgment, Last Resort, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Multi-Attack, Natural Gift, Pay Day, Pound, Quick Attack, Rage, Rapid Spin, Razor Wind, Relic Song, Retaliate, Return, Revelation Dance, Rock Climb, Round, Scratch, Secret Power, Self Destruct, Skull Bash, Slam, Slash, Smelling Salts, Snore, Sonic Boom, Spike Cannon, Spit Up, Stomp, Strength, Struggle, Super Fang, Swift, Tackle, Tail Slap, Take Down, Techno Blast, Terrain Pulse, Thrash, Tri Attack, Trump Card, Uproar, Vice Grip, Weather Ball, Wrap and Wring Out. 83 attacks.

Some of these attacks, obviously, are weird. Hidden Power could technically be a Normal type attack, but then that'd get flagged by -ate abilities so it doesn't count. Terrain Pulse, Techno Blast Revelation Dance, Multi-Attack, Natural Gift, Judgment and Weather Ball all get affected by various environmental factors, so they're good. Struggle is bizarre and I don't think it gets affected by -ate. That's eight moves eliminated already.

*Finally, I'll admit that Electrify would make everything written here invalid. However, I think it's still a fun thought experiment and I've already put too much time into it.

Now let's look at the Pokémon with -ate abilities that change typing:

Mega Pinsir and Mega Salamance with Aerilate, Sylveon with Pixilate, Glalie, Amaura and Aurorus with Refrigerate and Galvanize with Alolan Geodude, Graveler and Golem.

So now we go through the movesets. Every time I see a Normal type move, I flag it:

Pinsir has Vice Grip, Bind, Double Hit, Thrash, Return, Frustration, Hyper Beam, Facade, Round, False Swipe, Giga Impact, Fury Attack, Flail, Feint, Slash and Snore. That's 16 moves eliminated for a total of 24.

Without repeats, Salamance gets Rage, Headbutt, Hyper Voice, Cut, Strength, Secret Power, Swift and Body Slam (last moves are from transfer). That's eight more moves for a total of 32.

Sylveon gets Tackle, Last Resort, Take Down, Retaliate and Trump Card. That's four moves eliminated for a total of 36.

Glalie gets Explosion, Super Fang and Self Destruct (from transfer) to eliminate three more moves for a total of 39.

Aurorus gets nothing new. Still at 39.

Golem gets Mega Kick to take us to 42.

So here are the 42 moves that cannot hit super effective (without Electrify): Barrage, Boomburst, Chip Away, Comet Punch, Constrict, Covet, Crush Claw, Crush Grip, Dizzy Punch, Double Slap, Egg Bomb, Extreme Speed, Fake Out, Head Charge, Hold Back, Horn Attack, Hyper Fang, Mega Punch, Pay Day, Pound, Rapid Spin, Razor Wind, Relic Song, Rock Climb, Scratch, Skull Bash, Slam, Smelling Salts, Sonic Boom, Spike Cannon, Spit Up, Stomp, Tri Attack, Wrap and Wring Out.

So this is a lot, and that was a lot. If I goofed, lemme know and I'll fix it and credit you. Other than that, thanks for reading! It was fun.

 

[MrHands]

Weirdly not a single Pokemon with an -ate ability gets Metronome. Same goes for Assist and I think Copycat. Mega Altaria gets Mirror Move I guess so technically that works if it's able to copy one of those remaining moves if something weak to fairy uses them.

 

[CTNC]

I know I'm a joykill for pointing this out, but set damage moves can't be Super Effective. You listed Sonic Boom, but I'm guessing you forgot about set damage because you didn't mention Dragon Rage, Seismic Toss, or Night Shade.

If anyone wants to like this post, I'd feel better if you did it with the angry reaction because I don't deserve likes for pointing out a flaw like that in something this well thought out.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Some other moves that can't hit for Super Effective damage are the direct damage moves and 1HKO moves.

There's also the odd case of Synchronoise. Synchronoise is a move that only damages targets that are the same Type as the user. No Pokemon that learns Synchronoise are weak to Psychic (including none of Eevee's evolutions), therefore it can never do SE damage.

EDIT: Nevermind, I forgot non-Psychic-types do indeed have some Pokemon they can get SE damage on as explained below.

 

[Ironmage]

Some small corrections, in addition to the extra concepts noted elsewhere:

Sylveon can in fact learn covet, removing the move from the list.

Be sure to include Mega Gardevoir and Mega Altaira, both have Pixilate. Altaria's unlisted exceptions, Echoed Voice and Uproar, are (correctly) not in the list. Gardevoir however can learn Mega Punch, though not in any game it can mega evolve in (i.e. only in gen 8).

 

[CTNC]

Some other moves that can't hit for Super Effective damage are the direct damage moves and 1HKO moves.

There's also the odd case of Synchronoise. Synchronoise is a move that only damages targets that are the same Type as the user. No Pokemon that learns Synchronoise are weak to Psychic (including none of Eevee's evolutions), therefore it can never do SE damage.

Didn't think about 1HKOs...
(Edit: or Counter Attacks and Super Fang.)

Synchronoice is interesting, but Kecleon can use it Super Effectively first if it's hit Poison or Fighting type attack first due to its Signature ability, Color Change.

Also, a Poison or Fighting can use Mimic to copy it for a Super Effective Synchronoice and Skill Swap on -ate abillities can also be used to make any Normal Type Move Super Effective like Electrify. It's probobly best to ignore any example you have to go out of your way for.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Didn't think about 1HKO Moves...

Synchronoice is interesting, but Kecleon can use it Super Effectively first if it's hit Poison or Fighting type attack first due to its Signature ability, Color Change.

Also, a Poison or Fighting can use Mimic to copy it for a Super Effective Synchronoice. Also, Skill Swap on -ate abillities can also be used to make any Normal Type Move Super Effective like Electrify. It's probobly best to ignore any example you have to go out of your way for.

... And not only that, I just realized some Pokemon could do Super Effective damage with Synchronoise (without any additional gimmicks):

• Drowzee family, Chimecho family, Munna family, Elgyem family, & Espeon can never hit any Pokemon SE.
• Hoothoot family, Whimur family, Chatot, & Eevee can SE hit the Stufful family, Pirouette Meloetta, & Mega Lopunny.
• Hoothoot family, Chatot, Sigilyph, Natu family, and Woobat family can SE hit the the Zubat family, Hawlucha, and soon Galarian Zapdos.
• Bruxish, Psyduck family, & Vaporeon can SE hit the Tentacool family, Qwilfish, Skrelp (but not Dragalge cause it's Poison/Dragon), Mareanie family, Poliwrath, Keldeo, & Rapid Strike Urshifu.
• Magearna, Ralts, Kirlia, Gardevoir, & Slyveon can SE hit Galarian Weezing.
• Gallade can SE hit any Fighting-type that secondary Type doesn't neutralize Psychic.
• Jolteon can SE hit the Toxel family.
• Flareon can SE hit the Salandit family, Combusken, Blaziken, Monferno, Infernape, Pignite, & Emboar.
• Umbreon HAHAHA!
• Leafeon can SE hit the Bulbasaur family, Oddish, Gloom, Vileplume, Bellsprout family, Roselia family, Foongus family, Breloom, Virizion, & Chesnaught.
• Glaceon can SE hit Crabominable.

"You didn't need to list that out".
Well I got curious.

 

[Bayleef030]

In Pokemon Colosseum, the move Shadow Rush is neutral against everything.

In XD Gale of Darkness, that is no longer the case, since all Shadow moves are super effective against non-Shadow Pokemon.

 

[SadisticMystic]

Any damaging Normal move (apart from the trivial Sonicboom/Horn Drill/Guillotine) can easily be super effective if you use it in an Inverse Battle.

Gen 6 gave us straightforward access to inverse battles in-game, so all such moves that existed up to that point are simple to account for (with the exception of ---, which in addition to being difficult to hit with, is tricky to even use in singles). The only new Normal-type moves in 7 are Breakneck Blitz, Pulverizing Pancake, and Multi-Attack, where the latter can trivially have its type changed, so we only have to worry about the Z moves (which are unaffected by -ate abilities and obviously immune from being called by Metronome/Copycat/etc). In that case, we no longer have easy in-game access to inverse battles, but there was briefly a time on the Battle Spot Special ladder where it was possible to play inverse singles (original SM) or inverse doubles (USUM), so someone could have pulled it off during that time window. There's probably a flag in the rules files that can be used to forge your own ruleset and play inverse battles at any time, too, but anything of the sort can't be considered official.

New damaging Normal moves in the Switch era include Terrain Pulse (easily changeable type like Multi-Attack), Max Strike, and if you want to count Veevee Volley then that too. Unlike Z-moves, Max Moves do change type with the relevant abilities, but that actually changes the name of the move as well so that Sylveon would use Max Starfall, not Max Strike. As far as I know, there's never been a way to play inverse battles on the Switch (unless someone finds the bitflag and uses the forged custom rules file approach), leaving Max Strike and Veevee Volley completely out of luck thus far.

 

[woworiginal]

• Umbreon HAHAHA!

Well, I know you said "without any additional gimmicks", but if a member of the Alolan Grimer family, the Skuntank family, Drapion, the Scraggy family, Pangoro, or Single-strike Urshifu is holding a Ring Target, then yes, it will hit for SE damage.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Well, I know you said "without any additional gimmicks", but if a member of the Alolan Grimer family, the Skuntank family, Drapion, the Scraggy family, Pangoro, or Single-strike Urshifu is holding a Ring Target, then yes, it will hit for SE damage.

But, why would they?

"Well you could use Trick or Switcheroo to swap it onto them."

Why bother? Also if you want a Psychic-type move on Umbreon for some reason than it learns Psychic, it may be 30 power weaker but at least Umbreon can use it on non-Dark-types.

 

[Cobalt Empoleon]

But, why would they?

"Well you could use Trick or Switcheroo to swap it onto them."

Why bother? Also if you want a Psychic-type move on Umbreon for some reason than it learns Psychic, it may be 30 power weaker but at least Umbreon can use it on non-Dark-types.

An argument about utility doesn’t really belong in this thread lol. The point being made was ‘Umbreon can use Synchronoise super-effectively’ and that point is technically correct. Like, no one’s arguing that Trick+Ring Target+Synchronoise is a viable tactic.

 

[CTNC]

Another way Umbreon can use Synchronoise is if it used Mimic to learn Miracle Eye, the Psychic version of Foresight or Odor Sleuth that lets Psychic attacks affect Dark Types.

 

[Blue glass]

Until gen 5 Future Sight and Doom Desire delt typeless damage so they couldn't hit super efectively, didn't get STAB and Future Sight could hit Dark types.

 

[Cobalt Empoleon]

Another way Umbreon can use Synchronoise is if it used Mimic to learn Miracle Eye, the Psychic version of Foresight or Odor Sleuth that lets Psychic attacks affect Dark Types.

Or in an inverse battle against any Dark-type except the Ring Target ones listed above:

Alolan Grimer family, the Skuntank family, Drapion, the Scraggy family, Pangoro, or Single-strike Urshifu

 

[khlaylav]

Alright, let's (finally) fix this.

First, the ones I'd initially observed: Barrage, Boomburst, Chip Away, Comet Punch, Constrict, Crush Claw, Crush Grip, Dizzy Punch, Double Slap, Egg Bomb, Extreme Speed, Fake Out, Head Charge, Hold Back, Horn Attack, Hyper Fang, Mega Punch, Pay Day, Pound, Rapid Spin, Razor Wind, Relic Song, Rock Climb, Scratch, Skull Bash, Slam, Smelling Salts, Sonic Boom, Spike Cannon, Spit Up, Stomp, Tri Attack, Wrap and Wring Out. Covet is removed thanks to Ironmage's observation that Sylveon can learn it.

As Pikachu315111 and CTNC noted, the 1HKO and direct damage moves cannot hit super effective. So that adds Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill and Sheer Cold from 1HKO and Bide, Counter, Dragon Rage, Endeavor, Final Gambit, Guardian of Alola, Metal Burst, Mirror Coat, Nature's Madness, Night Shade, Psywave, Seismic Toss and Super Fang. Finally, Blue glass noted that Future Sight and Doom Desire hit typeless as well up until Gen 5. That's a total of 58 moves that currently cannot hit for super effective damage, with Future Sight and Doom Desire making it 60.

I'll also note Bayleef030's observation on Shadow Rush in Colosseum, so that's 61.

As for SadisticMystic, I know there's Inverse Battles, so let's update it and call this "What moves can't hit for super effective damage in normal battles?"

 

[Siggu]

Well, I know you said "without any additional gimmicks", but if a member of the Alolan Grimer family, the Skuntank family, Drapion, the Scraggy family, Pangoro, or Single-strike Urshifu is holding a Ring Target, then yes, it will hit for SE damage.

No, it won't. It will hit for neutral damage.

Umbreon only takes super-effective damage from Synchronoise in Inverse Battles.

 

[pokemon4eva]

Ah Synchro Noise, what a load of garbage attack

I remember the only utility I ever saw for this move was during an official Electric-themed tournament in ORAS I think. Jolteon excelled a lot thanks to that move, hitting nearly everything hard and fast.

 

[Cobalt Empoleon]

No, it won't. It will hit for neutral damage.

Umbreon only takes super-effective damage from Synchronoise in Inverse Battles.

What do you mean? The post you’re quoting is talking about Umbreon using Synchronoise against the listed targets while they hold a Ring Target, which will result in SE damage