Will Heatran replace Garchomp?

[mien]

Before starting this argument please note that English is not my primary language not even my second but my third. So if my grammar is like one of a 12 year old sometimes my apologises.

Several pokemons have rised in usage since the release of Platinum but none of them scares me more then Heatrans. It is strange if you think about it Heatran didn’t got any usefull moves. Yet i’ve been seeing Heatran like in almost every team lately, why?

Current Metagame

- Banning Garchomp, Garchomp has always been a valuable switchin to Heatran resisting it’s most important stab and easily kill it with an Eq. Garchomp was so bulky that a misprediction from Dragon pulse or hp ice won’t 1HKO.

-T he release of Platinum brought several changes to the metagame like Scizor and Skymin. You can easily switch Heatran in both of those and 1HKO them with Fire blast.

He might not be No1 yet or maybe he already is we’ll have to wait for the statistics for that. However while playing on the ladder I’ve noticed several changes caused by Heatran here are a few example.

- Skymin uses Substitude which is odd on a pokemon who can’t recover himself and even gets killed faster by SR. Yet this very usefull if a Heatran would switchin expecting Seed Flare and EP the vulcano
- Blissey uses T-wave instead of Toxic to cripple heatran
- Heatran often now uses Earth power instead of Fire blast even in the beginning expecting another Heatran
-Superpower on Scizor to kill predicted Heatran switchins.

Future predictions

You might say whatever a bit rise can’t be a problem from the metagame isn’t it?
However many people use Heatran to switch into other Heatrans so in that case if more people use Heatran more will use it to switch into it which makes other people also use it more.

In worst case scenario

 

[jrrrrrrr]

uhhh..no? lol.

Nothing has the combination of brute power and durability, combined with the luck factor that Garchomp brings to the table. Heatran is just a pokemon with amazing defensive typing and solid stats otherwise. It still has weaknesses that are extremely easy to exploit, it still has several 100% counters in OU and its best attack still only has 8 PP and 85% acc.

Heatran is used so often at the moment because it is a perfect counter to most of the new Platinum toys that everyone is hyped about and using since its release. Skymin and Scizor won't be nearly as popular in a couple months.

The only reason Heatran is so popular is that it gets so many free switches against these horribly built "suicide"/"heavy offensive" teams and can easily rip apart their frail defenses. Heatran is the anti-metagame pokemon at the moment. Garchomp was the ENTIRE metagame.

Comparing anything in OU to Garchomp is just as useless as comparing them before Garchomp was banned.

 

[Shelcario]

I also don't think so because most pokes in OU usually have something that's super effective against Heatran, usually. Also Heatran isn't as fast as Garchomp except surpassing his speed with a Choice Scarf but having to switch out just because you got outpredicted is kind of the downside to Choice Scarf Heatran.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I do not see Heatran being the same type of threat as Garchomp, however I do see how much impact (for better or more likely for worse) it has on the metagame.

This is not heatran's fault exclusively, but most likely it has to do with its synergy with other high-ranking pokemon, both in countering them and teaming up with them.

In a game revolving around the threats of Garchomp, Gengar, Gyarados and Lucario, the number of pokemon (both offensive and defensive) that saw play was still fairly wide, as the mentioned pokemon didn't necessarily work well just by throwing them on the same team.

The game that heatran and platinum has created though, one revolving around Heatran, Shaymin, Salamence, Scizor is different, since these four pokemon have surprisingly good capacity for covering each others weakness and potentially countering each others counters. In addition, since that pool of 4 pokes can also be used to counter the same 4 pokes, the centralization around them only increases. Add to the fact that a handful of other important pokemon like Zapdos, Celebi, Tyranitar, Mamoswine and Gyardos (also Swampert) also have excellent synergy with these 4 (on the same team or against), and I believe we're seeing a metagame where 1 playing style (offensive) is becoming more and more common, and the offensive teams becoming more and more similar.

I think one would be hard pressed to say the metagame is less centralized now than it was with garchomp. Not that I'm saying we were wrong with garchomp, but it is startling how well the current top sweepers mesh together, both on the same team and against each other. Cele-tran-zap-mence is certainly something that was driving the suspect ladder before, but platinum's inclusion of bullet punch scizor and shaymin (proving a more offensive grass threat to go alongside celebi's defensive one) secured this type of metagame even further.

 

[Syberia]

Heatran is used pretty much because it counters a lot of threats in the current metagame. Garchomp was used because it could overpower just about anything. Heatran has solid counters that it cannot get past without exploding, Garchomp does not. They're totally different pokemon.

 

[mien]

uhhh..no? lol.

Nothing has the combination of brute power and durability, combined with the luck factor that Garchomp brings to the table. Heatran is just a pokemon with amazing defensive typing and solid stats otherwise. It still has weaknesses that are extremely easy to exploit, it still has several 100% counters in OU and its best attack still only has 8 PP and 85% acc.


Heatran is used so often at the moment because it is a perfect counter to most of the new Platinum toys that everyone is hyped about and using since its release. Skymin and Scizor won't be nearly as popular in a couple months.

The only reason Heatran is so popular is that it gets so many free switches against these horribly built "suicide"/"heavy offensive" teams and can easily rip apart their frail defenses. Heatran is the anti-metagame pokemon at the moment. Garchomp was the ENTIRE metagame.

Comparing anything in OU to Garchomp is just as useless as comparing them before Garchomp was banned.

I don't see why Heatran has less brute power or durability then Garchomp, they both have it in their own way. Heatran hits harder then Garchomp but Garchomp could power himself up with an SD.
Besides i don't see why you say Fire blast isn't a good attack it has amazing acc for a 120Stab attack and no flaws at all. Many pokemons would die for such a Stab attack
Having counters or not doesn't make him less frightening, besides garchomp being uncounterable is pure theorymon, I never had problems facing him or at least not more then Lucario or Gyarados.

People have to learn the metagame is not about countering things but to put the game in your advantage. You can make a team that counters everything and it still will fail believe me.
On Garchomp for example yes it could outrage and kill one of your pokes but after that he is locked or confused and then you can put the game into your advantage.
While looking at a bunch of calculations from outrage you should also think about the disadvantages it has

I don't see why Scizor's and Skymin's usage will ''lower'' if they really were not that powerfull it should have lowered already which is not the case. People don't use them because they are new but simply because they are very powerfull

I don't know what metagame you are playing but most people on the ladder don't use ''horrible'' offensive teams. If i understand your argument correctly you mean that Heatran is only used a lot because people are noob

I don't see the difference between your anti-metagame and metagame. I always thought anti-metagame is a rarely used gimmicky set that only works in the current state of the metagame, something nobody is prepared for.I have been testing Heatran for the last few days on the ladder and pretty much any team is prepared for it

Besides one pokemon can't change the whole metagame not one single pokemon has become OU to BL or the opposite since Garchomp became banned. It are new strategies and teams that change the metagame like what happened with Husk and Obi's team

As a side note when i compare Garchomp and Heatran i was only talking about their usage nothing else sorry if wasn't more clear >_>

 

[bobdisgea]

I agree with you to a point. I played shoddy ou for the first time since platinum came out. I noticed that almost every team i was up against had heatran now. Even running sets i had never seen. This was such a surprise to me i had to rebuild my team. I think this will mean that swampert may see a new rise in popularity also, as he resists scizor and heatran.

 

[Cynthia]

I agree, I see a lot of Heatrans around. Luckily Heatran does have some pretty solid counters (water types with decent spdef), though explosion is a pain. Zapdos and Celebi are common as well, and Scizor and Skymin have high usages as one would expect.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

I think you're underestimating the novelty factor of Skymin, etc. People ARE trying out the new things because they want to see what works vs what doesn't work.

Blissey running more T-Wave and less Toxic could very well be a reaction to the absence of Garchomp than the uprise of Heatran.

And who is stupid enough to switch Garchomp in on Heatran, risking a burn?

 

[mien]

I think you're underestimating the novelty factor of Skymin, etc. People ARE trying out the new things because they want to see what works vs what doesn't work.

Blissey running more T-Wave and less Toxic could very well be a reaction to the absence of Garchomp than the uprise of Heatran.

And who is stupid enough to switch Garchomp in on Heatran, risking a burn?

People don't try new things forever if they don't work then they don't use it
Take the first month after Deoxys-E got unbanned for example back in the days when people didn't knew what potential it had
it was used a lot for like one week and then it went all the way down.

Believe me all people who frequently ladder already know if their skymin works or not.

Blissey was running a toxic a LOT right before platinum was released but after the chomp ban. But probably Garchomp has something to do with it as well.

that last comment was like fail sorry, i mean that's the same like saying Metagross can't switch into Abomasnow risking a freeze.

@ Choutosio tnx for your reply i agree with almost everything you said and saying it in such a intelligent way i never could dream about

 

[lilyhollow]

that last comment was like fail sorry, i mean that's the same like saying Metagross can't switch into Abomasnow risking a freeze.

Don't forget about Lava Plume though.

 

[mien]

Don't forget about Lava Plume though.

lol, yea but really nobody uses Lava plume anymore
Besides most Heatrans use Earth power not fire blast fearing other Heatrans.

I personaly think the current metagame was much more dangerous then it was with Garchomp becuase of this. You always know what Garchomp is going to do but predicting Heatran can be very difficult resulting endless mind breaking Heatran vs Heatran Prediction wars

 

[Sudo]

I personaly think the current metagame was much more dangerous then it was with Garchomp becuase of this. You always know what Garchomp is going to do but predicting Heatran can be very difficult resulting endless mind breaking Heatran vs Heatran Prediction wars

Ah ha ha. Heatran really has three main roles: Scarf, Support/Wall, and Specs. With common weaknesses to popular moves like Earthquake, fighting moves, and Surf, it's more restricted to revenge killing than outright sweeping due to its 77 base speed. Blissey, Vaporeon, Swampert, Hippowdon and Suicune tank it well and immobilize or outright kill it.

In short, Heatran is not popular because he can sweep, but rather for his usefulness in team synergy. His popularity won't make him an overwhelming influence over the metagame, akin to Blissey.

EDIT: Thanks Sixonesix, I must have been thinking of Lucario. :x

 

[Sixonesix]

Ah ha ha. Heatran really has three main roles: Scarf, Support/Wall, and Specs. With common weaknesses to popular moves like Earthquake, fighting moves, and Surf, it's more restricted to revenge killing than outright sweeping due to its 90 base speed. Blissey, Vaporeon, Swampert, Hippowdon and Suicune tank it well and immobilize or outright kill it.

In short, Heatran is not popular because he can sweep, but rather for his usefulness in team synergy. His popularity won't make him an overwhelming influence over the metagame, akin to Blissey.

Oh god, if only...

Anyway, it's only base 77.

 

[Great Sage]

This is a silly topic that disregards the fundamentals of Pokemon.