"Worst Pokémon Ever"

earl

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actually it's one of its only niches. People initially used it as a defensive xerneas check but found that it was quite shitty at that. TBH solgaleo in ubers is p shit but afaik its niches are a scarf set and a z splash set.
Nah it’s 2 sets on the dex are offensive utility with lefties and specially defensive

But then again it’s kind of a shitmon so who cares
 

Pikachu315111

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Are USUM spoilers allowed in this thread?
If it's something spoilery, like a new move, than no. But if you just want to mention something like the Tutor moves some Pokemon got/didn't get then I think that'll be okay. If you're still not sure, I would count that as a no.
 
Ugh, please no USUM spoilers until the game comes out, no matter how inconsequential you think they are. I really really wanted to come into that game clean but unfortunately the Orange Islands UI is already trying to ruin that.

BTW mods, might want to fix it so the "latest post" displayed isn't one from the USUM forum, or at least not let the forum titles blatantly display the new pokemon names. Accidentally learned a few things I really didn't want to that way.
 
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Ugh, please no USUM spoilers until the game comes out, no matter how inconsequential you think they are. I really really wanted to come into that game clean but unfortunately the Orange Islands UI is already trying to ruin that.

BTW mods, might want to fix it so the "latest post" displayed isn't one from the USUM forum, or at least not let the forum titles blatantly display the new pokemon names. Accidentally learned a few things I really didn't want to that way.
Wouldn't you rather no spoilers until well after the games are out if you're trying to avoid them? You know, since you'll probably want to remain unaware of the new stuff until you've encountered it in-game yourself?
 

Codraroll

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In this thread, we sometimes have to stretch the definition of "Worst" a little bit. There are many ways to define a bad Pokémon, and if we were to all take the thread title literally, the thread wouldn't have more than two pages' worth of everybody agreeing that the answer to its question is Simisear. Indeed, to allow for a varied and fruitful discussion, we sometimes have to look beyond that turd of a monkey and seek out some Pokémon that are bad in certain categories or aspects. Whether it's bad usefulness, uninspired visual design, boring gameplay design, uninspired lore, or other things that make certain Pokémon worse than they have to be.

Besides, I wanted to talk about this and this was the only thread I felt it could be sort-of relevant if I wrote a paragraph justifying it first.

In the category of "Pokémon Game Freak designed and then clearly forgot about", enter Bergmite:


To be honest, I don't see much wrong with Bergmite's design. It's the Ice Chunk Pokémon, and wow does it look like a chunk of ice. It has a recognisable silhouette, some decent (if generic) lore, and a movepool as passable as it gets for physically-based Ice-type Pokémon (that is, as barren as the Antarctic interior, but Bergmite doesn't stick out in this respect).

However, Bergmite is, how do I put it, obscure. It has been four years, and nearly four pairs of core series games, since Bergmite debuted in Pokémon X and Y. However, X and Y remain the only games it is available in (not sure about USUM, but I'm not holding my hopes up). It is also found in Pokémon Shuffle (as are all other Pokémon, to my knowledge), Pokémon Rumble World (what is even that?), and Pokémon Battle Trozei (No, I hadn't heard about it before either, and even Bulbapedia doesn't have more pictures of it than the logo). In short, Bergmite is only available in one game people are likely to play. It also has only one appearance in the Anime, where it wasn't even the Pokémon of the Day.

But so what? It probably shares this distinction with plenty of other Pokémon. Okay, it is only found on two floors in one dungeon of the game, but it's not an optional one, and you're likely to bump into at least one thanks to its 20 % encounter rate. Doesn't hold a candle to, say, Chimecho in RSE. There's nothing to stop you from popping one on your in-game team and playing around with it for a while?

Here's the thing, though: Bergmite evolves at level 37, into the considerably more distinctive and memorable Avalugg. However, Bergmite is only found at levels 39 and 40. This means that Bergmite is not encounterable at a level below that which it evolves at. It's overdue for evolution already by the time you catch it. Avalugg takes over the spotlight once Bergmite is raised a single level, unless you force it not to evolve. It takes some considerable backtracking and breeding for you to obtain a Bergmite you can level up without either evolving it immediately or holding off evolution, and by the time you baby the newbred Bergmite to a level where it can pull its weight for that point of the game, it's ready to evolve anyway.

Basically, Bergmite is outdated from the moment you find it, and to rub salt in the wound, it's the only moment you find it.

I don't know what the designers were thinking, to be honest. Was Bergmite intended to be found at an earlier point in the game, was the level curve tweaked so that Frost Cavern's general level level was above Bergmite's evolution level, or were they completely aware of this but decided to leave Bergmite evolving at 37 so it could be featured earlier in some future game? After all, they've kind of painted Rufflet, Vullaby, Pawniard, and others pretty solidly into the late-game corner for the foreseeable future. There's nothing preventing those from being used in the early-game, but they are rather un-fun to use since they evolve after level 50, meaning you will have to drag a first-stage Pokémon around for most of the game. Did the designers want to save Bergmite from that fate? Or was it simply a big oversight?


I believe Bergmite is the only Pokémon with this unique distinction of not being available in-game below its evolutionary level, but if you can think of any others, please tell me!
 
Ledian has many shortcomings. Bland design is not one of them. As mentioned by Bogleech, it's designed to resemble Japanese superheroes that resemble bugs (it's why Bug is SE against Dark). And what a delightful design it is! From the helmet and visor to the many gloved fists to fight evil, this design is too cool and cute to write off as bland.
 
Incineroar. Now before you go all starters cant be bad on me, let me explain.
He is one of the most bizarre designs in the game. When I had torracat, he was AWESOME, especially for a middle evolution. I just loved destroying trials and such with him. Then along comes Incineroar. When I expect another cat-like awesomeness, I get a bloated, freakishly ripped HUMAN with a snout, whiskers, and a tail. And this thing is supposed to be an evil, firey cat. I give up on understanding game freak...
Now this could all be forgiven on behalf of him being an overlevelled competitive beast during trials (him being the only pokemon i actually used at the time), but then I got to the elite four. Incineroar has great offensive stats, but hp and defnce are crud, meaning if he was not lucky enough to move first, I had one pokemon down and one fewer left to battle. When I got to the battle tree, same result. I know incineroar is supposed to leap before he looks as part of his personality, but Seriously??
If I get US or UM, I am taking rowlet as my starter.

Edit: I am LOSING MY MIND. Or my memory. Removed the ludicolo bit. However I am still SURE Inceneroar was OH'd by a mega drain from something that should DEFINITELY not have kod him
Feel free to remove the math.
 
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[...] but he got OHKO’d by giga drain (a GRASS MOVE) from a lvl 50 ludicolo! Seriously??
This really cannot have been the case
252+ SpA Choice Specs Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Incineroar: 58-69 (37.4 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
This is a full EV/IV modest choice specs Ludicolo vs a 0 EV/IV -SPD Incineroar, both at level 50. So unless it was at +3 or something, this really cannot have happened.

Agreeing on the part where it is a downgrade from Torracat design-wise though.
 

earl

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Actually incineroar is pretty bulky for a starter, around 90/95/95 or something. Agreeing on terrible design tho
 
Actually incineroar is pretty bulky for a starter, around 90/95/95 or something. Agreeing on terrible design tho
95/90/90, actually. Incineroar is a powerhouse, but the significant drop in Speed from Torracat can be problematic. It's not helped by the fact that half the Elite Four have a type advantage on it, and Hapu before them. The design... takes some getting used to, but I can dig its expressiveness.

Incineroar. Now before you go all starters cant be bad on me, let me explain.
He is one of the most bizarre designs in the game. When I had torracat, he was AWESOME, especially for a middle evolution. I just loved destroying trials and such with him. Then along comes Incineroar. When I expect another cat-like awesomeness, I get a bloated, freakishly ripped HUMAN with a snout, whiskers, and a tail. And this thing is supposed to be an evil, firey cat. I give up on understanding game freak...
Now this could all be forgiven on behalf of him being an overlevelled competitive beast during trials (him being the only pokemon i actually used at the time), but then I got to the elite four. Incineroar has great offensive stats, but hp and defnce are crud, meaning if he was not lucky enough to move first, I had one pokemon down and one fewer left to battle. When I got to the battle tree, same result. I know incineroar is supposed to leap before he looks as part of his personality, but Seriously??
If I get US or UM, I am taking rowlet as my starter.

Edit: I am LOSING MY MIND. Or my memory. Removed the ludicolo bit. However I am still SURE Inceneroar was OH'd by a mega drain from something that should DEFINITELY not have kod him
Feel free to remove the math.
Wouldn't recommend Rowlet, honestly. Grass/Ghost in a game chock full of Pokemon that love to spam Dark moves is asking for trouble, and it's not that much faster than Incineroar or Primarina. But hey, maybe you'll appreciate the extra challenge, or maybe Rowlet/Decidueye will work out for you.
 
I feel like Incineroar is an okay design (even if it's just "what if that alternate costume for King from Tekken where he's an actual cat-man were canon" the Pokemon), but it probably would have worked better as a standalone.
 
Incineroar is fine design-wise. Its design is worse than Litten's, but it still shows a good amount of personality.

Torracat, on the other hand... is bland and forgettable. It's not "Fennekin's line" bad, which looks horrible at every angle, but Torracat just does not bring anything interesting. It's the only Pokemon of all three Alola starter lines that I don't like.
 
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Wouldn't recommend Rowlet, honestly. Grass/Ghost in a game chock full of Pokemon that love to spam Dark moves is asking for trouble, and it's not that much faster than Incineroar or Primarina. But hey, maybe you'll appreciate the extra challenge, or maybe Rowlet/Decidueye will work out for you.
Eh, in game, Rowlet fares pretty decently, IMHO. There are relatively few good grass types in Alola, and starting out Grass/Flying helps you a ton in the early routes, where you'd otherwise be weak to bug. Comparatively, Incineroar has to compete with Salazzle and Alolawak, both of which you can get by the second island, and Primarina has to deal with Wishiwashi and Araquanid. In terms of team composition, Rowlet and its evos help out a ton, in my experience.
 

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