X-mons

[readytolose]

Sorry for two big posts in relatively quick succession. This metagame has grabbed my attention so you'll have to forgive me.

I'd like to see Aegislash in action first tbh. I think it could help slow down some of the powerhouses. I'm also thinking of unbanning Blaziken now that Speed Boost can't raise its Speed.

I agree with this. The argument that "Swords Dance is only its third best set" doesn't really apply in an OM where we don't know what the best sets of anything are. It holds a bit of water but but not really. It's probably worth testing first. King's Shield is cool and it might add to the metagame
Also, Blaziken probably would be safe to unban. It's not that fast, and it can't even run Vacuum Wave alongside Speed Boost. Way safer than Aegislash, at least.

anyway here's some more cool sets

Pangoro @ Choice Band
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Parting Shot
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot

Pangoro has access to an amazing move. Parting Shot is a super cool and powerful move in this metagame, lowering the opponent's two highest stats by one stage each. This generates a ton of momentum and lets Pangoro contribute to a VoltTurn Intimidate-spam core with Mega Manectric and Landorus-Therian, but I think Pangoro's greatest use will be as part of a wallbreaking core. When Pangoro uses Parting Shot against an offensive pokemon, it will usually lower Speed and an attacking stat of choice, letting you bring in another wallbreaker, outspeed it thanks to the speed drop, and get a kill. If Pangoro uses it against a slow offensive pokemon, it will lower an attacking stat, letting you bring whatever you want easier. And if you use it against a defensive mon, it cuts their defenses, letting you bring in your other wallbreaker and kill it easier. Something like Cb Azumarill could be an excellent partner for Pangoro, as it takes full advantage of the drops on Pangoro switch-ins like Landorus-Therian, which will probably be one of the most common pokemon in the metagame. It's also a great scouting tool, as it lets you see what the two highest stats of a pokemon are with relatively little risk, uncovering potential Choice Scarves. Pangoro is still relatively unimpressive on its own, though. It doesn't really have the bulk to grab momentum against some offensive teams, so maybe some bizarre sets like Scarf or RestTalk will win out.

Sharpedo @ Life Orb/Leftovers/Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Protect
- Waterfall/Substitute
- Crunch

Speed Boost bolsters Sharpedo's Attack stat by one stage each turn, letting it turn into a runaway train if unchecked. Due to its access to Aqua Jet, Sharpedo is perhaps the best user of this strategy, as it can use Aqua Jet to clean up games. Sharpedo is best used by picking off a weakened offensive pokemon and getting a free attack boost while doing so, then proceeding to hit the opposing team hard while Protecting every other turn for a free boost. Against more defensive teams, Sharpedo can run Substitute to almost guarantee reaching +6 Attack without issue, before attempting to sweep. Such a set is not without fault, however. Sharpedo has crummy bulk, meaning that it's super reliant on Aqua Jet and Protect, and its Substitutes are basically useless unless you predict a status move perfectly. Its not that fast, so faster offensive pokemon resistant to Aqua Jet can pick it off, like Keldeo for example. And without a boost, its not that strong either. And its super predictable cause it Protects every other turn. And it's weak to faster priority like Extreme Speed. Wow, I make it sound really bad. While it has a lot of flaws I think Sharpedo can be really effective, if you can predict correctly.

Banette-Mega @ Banettite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Cotton Guard
- Sucker Punch/Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw/Gunk Shot/Knock Off
- Destiny Bond

Something like this looks like it could be one of the most prevalent Banette sets. Cotton Guard is amazing, as it boosts Banette's Attack by a hefty 3 stages, letting it do a whole lot of damage. After a boost, it's capable of 2HKOing pretty much everything with the right move, including bulky Landorus-Therian after Intimidate, Skarmory, Bisharp, and most Tyranitar sets. It's tough to build a Banette set, cause it has poor coverage, and its strongest attack isn't even a Ghost-type move. Not to mention it still has access to all those support options, even though Cotton Guard is one of the main reasons to use it now. Having Destiny Bond as well gives it the best of both its niches. It still has a lot of the same flaws that it has normally, but it's got some kind of niche now to go alongside priority Destiny Bond. I think it's actually the best Cotton Guard user now, besides maybe Altaria.

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Bulk Up
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast

Thundurus looks like one of the best Defiant/Competitive users around. It laughs in the face of Landorus-Therian, Salamence, and Mega Manectric and turns their drops into boosts. Landorus-Therian is not actually much of a threat to this set anyways, but Mega Manectric, a solid check otherwise, is OHKOed by a +2 Focus Blast. But perhaps the thing most aiding the viability of Thundurus is its cool speed tier, which puts it ahead of Keldeo, Latios, and more. It outspeeds most relevant scarfers after a boost, save for I guess Raikou. You can even drop a few Speed points (or just run Modest) if you want opposing Intimidates to boost your Speed instead, which lets you outspeed a lot more after a boost, but you lose the jump on Latios. Overall, it's probably the best answer to Intimidate spam.


other sets I though about but don't feel like writing about
Coil + Competitive Milotic (offensive or defensive.)
Coil + Zap Cannon Eelektross (this looks particularly fun)
CM keldeo, CM latios, CM mega gardevoir, etc.
DD + Cotton guard + Roost + an attack Mega Altaria (double dance style. physical or special)
Download Porygon-Z and Porygon2 (always raises the highest stat.)

 

[Asumi]

Flatter is now Swagger lite. I see no reason why Swagger shouldn't be unbanned, seeing as it will actually help the opponent most of the time by boosting speed or defenses.

Gardevoir-Mega @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock

Calm Mind now works as a special Dragon Dance for a lot of scary users like Mega Gardevoir and Latios/Latias. Jirachi works too.

Keldeo gets +1 to either SpA or Speed when it switches into Knock Off.
Mega Heracross gets a pseudo-DD when using Bulk Up with a Jolly nature.
Mega Altaria can use Cotton Guard to get a +3 boost in a single turn.


Then there are those that are strong enough without proper setup moves getting something to complete them. Like Heatran getting +2 SpA from Iron Defense or Zapdos from Agility.

I'm more interested in non-OU things though:

Arcanine is blessed with Intimidate and recovery, and can now boost with Agility.
Gallade gets DD in the form of Bulk Up or Work Up.
Togekiss can kick the flinching up a notch by boosting SpA and Speed with Work Up.
Diggersby uses Bulk Up to boost both Attack and Speed.
Entei now has a good setup move in Calm Mind.
Mega Pidgeot has Nasty Plot in Agility.
Mega Blastoise has the same in Iron Defense.
Mega Sceptile can change its Swords Dance into a Nasty Plot.
Mega Alakazam can now demolish everything with Barrier.
Mega Swampert can use Bulk Up as Dragon Dance.
Sharpedo gets +1 to Attack every turn before mega evolving.
Scolipede can pass Attack boosts when using Adamant.
Porygon-Z will always get +1 SpA with Download (unless you use scarf).
Porygon2 is now extremely bulky by using Download to boost either of its defenses.
Darmanitan with Bulk Up as Dragon Dance.
Meloetta finally gets speed through Calm Mind.
Slurpuff can now use Belly Drum + Unburden and utilize its better special move pool.
Pyroar can finally use Moxie!

Scolipede @ Choice Band
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Megahorn
- Poison Jab
- Earthquake
- Superpower / Rock Slide

+1 Attack per turn. Fancy. Can lose the band but must run Adamant for Speed Boost to turn into Attack. It can then Baton Pass those boosts to a teammate.

 

[Ghoul King]

I'm not sure why Blaziken/Mega Blaziken are being discussed as potential unbans. No, Speed Boost doesn't raise its Speed anymore, but now Bulk Up/Work Up is Dragon Dance and then Speed Boost brings it up to +2 Attack, and keeps raising it every turn it stays in murdering things. That's pretty terrifying.

I don't see any obvious problems with unbanning Aegislash, though, since it has to enter Blade Form if it wants to actually get the Swords Dance boosts it wants, and its lack of recovery means it's not liable to pull off the stallmon thing to some amazing, ban-worthy extent.

Interesting meta, anyway.

 

[readytolose]

Hide

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 216 HP / 252 SpA / 40 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Leaf Storm
- Substitute
- Leech Seed

The OP lists Serperior as a Pokemon with decreased viability in this metagame, but I'm almost inclined to disagree. The ability to raise any of its stats with Leaf Storm, plus the ability to turn any opposing stat drops on their heads seems very viable to me. The set above works similar to standard Serperior: unfortunately, you can only hit 271 Speed without it running over your Special Attack (unless you run Choice Specs). That is still more than enough to wallbreak with, though. But one of the best parts about this is that Intimidate just gives it another free boost, making stuff like Arcanine and Salamence struggle to switch into it as easily. That's not all Serperior can do though. Since it can boost any of its stats with the right spread, it has access to a whole host of gimmicky options involving Leaf Storm. Speed-boosting Serperior might be more viable than you think: it can still hit rather hard with a drawback-free Leaf Storm while becoming faster than anything, letting it try and clean up some games. You can even try Defense or Special Defense-boosting Serperior for a bizarre SubSeed set, or a wonky Attack-boosting mixed Serperior (surprise Fire types with Aqua Tail). Since we're getting into gimmick territory, might as well mention that Serperior gets Coil too, which is a pretty neat move, although it is one of the worst users of it.

Whimsicott @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 220 HP / 252 SpA / 36 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cotton Guard
- Giga Drain
- Moonblast
- Nature Power

Priority spammers like Agility Dragonite and Agility Arcanine have been mentioned already, but Whimsicott stands out as one of the only special ones. It's not an obvious offensive Cotton Guard user, but priority Nature Power plus decently strong moves let it hit quite hard after a boost. At +3, it hits 695 Special Attack, letting it hit similarly as hard as +2 Arcanine on the special spectrum. Nature Power becomes priority Tri Attack that can deal heavy damage to most offensive Pokemon, 2HKOing most of them and OHKOing some of the less bulky ones. The STAB attacks let you crush walls, and Giga Drain has the added bonus of keeping you healthy. Whimsicott also has access to all its old tech, like Prankster Stun Spore, Encore, and more, but it struggles to find room for them on a set. The main downside here is you can only run 277 speed, making you reliant on Nature Power against faster foes, and Nature Power only gets +1 priority unlike Extreme Speed, making you vulnerable to Talonflame + opposing Extreme Speed users. And you are very weak without a boost, so you need to choose your matchups carefully so you can actually get to set up. Still though, Whimsicott looks fucking amazing in this. It's one of the strongest priority attackers with a whole lot of utility to boot.

Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Roost/Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp/Substitute/Flamethrower
- Bug Buzz

Here's another pretty gimmicky set. With this spread, Quiver Dance raises Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense, letting Volcarona become a bulky and hard to kill setup sweeper. It has a bit of flexibility in move choices, too. Roost is pretty obvious, but Substitute can let it dodge Toxic, which basically ruins this set. Will-O-Wisp lets you become even harder to kill on the physical side, and just wear down opponents, but it should be noted that this set can make good use of Flame Body, which can do the same thing. Volcarona's one-move coverage is pretty shit, and it makes you vulnerable to Steel-types unless you run a Fire move. You struggle with Heatran too, although you can beat some variants by simply muscling through. And lastly, although you can sometimes 2HKO Quagsire with Bug Buzz, all you can do to Clefable is try and stall it out. Volcarona still has its usual flaws and weaknesses related to Stealth Rock, so it still requires support in that regard. But I think this set can be effective against certain kinds of teams, although regular Volcarona will probably be more popular.

Slurpuff @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cotton Guard/Belly Drum
- Flamethrower
- Substitute/Surf
- Dazzling Gleam

Slurpuff actually is a pretty versatile sweeper with two powerful boosting moves. Someone already mentioned special Belly Drum as an option, but Slurpuff also gets Cotton Guard, and it can run that either physically or specially too. It's much more risk-free than Belly Drum, although it doesn't automatically activate your Berry. Slurpuff's special coverage is better than its physical, but the physical set is definitely still an option, and this surprise factor can help decide games. The special set can run Flamethrower to hit most Steel types hard, including some the physical set struggles with, like Scizor and Klefki. Surf lets you hit Fire types. Slurpuff can also use Draining Kiss to heal on a special set, but it's just really weak. Slurpuff doesn't appreciate priority attackers very much, unfortunately, so it needs support to help deal with those. Overall, it has a lot more surprise factor, even though none of the individual sets are much more viable than they are normally.

Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper/Gooey
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SpA / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb
- Muddy Water

Goodra gets an honorary mention in this, cause its two main abilities, Sap Sipper and Gooey, both received buffs. Sap Sipper translates to a +1 Special Defense boost if you're running Assault Vest, and a +1 Special Attack boost if you're running anything else, both of which are more useful than before. It could make Goodra an even better switch-in to the Grass-types I mentioned above. Its other ability, Gooey, lowers the opponent's highest stat by one stage upon contact. This might actually let it take on some physical attackers a little better cause it can lower their Attack after being hit. It might also force out some walls if their Special Defense gets dropped, too. That being said, Goodra still has shit Defense, so the only way I could see Gooey helping against physical attackers is if you switch in on weak resisted hits, but its better than nothing. It's also worth noting, on the set above, that Draco Meteor lowers Goodra's Special Defense after one use, which I think is more a blessing than a curse. It makes Goodra less forced to switch out after an attack, since Goodra's Special Defense is still adequate after a drop, and it also helps with Goodra's lack of offensive presence. At the same time, you need to realize you're still using Goodra, and its buffs are really quite minor in this metagame.

Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Ability: Big Pecks
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 108 SpD / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Taunt/Toxic
- Defog/Toxic/Knock Off

Here's one more funny thing I noticed. The ability Big Pecks prevents your Defense from being lowered. It's pretty useless in regular play, but in this, it actually protects from all stat drops so long as Defense is your highest stat, which could be handy in a metagame where Intimidate is pretty good. Mandibuzz is the only Pokemon that can really use this ability effectively, but it could be neat, as it lets her answer to Landorus-T and Arcanine better. It basically works like Clear Body, which doesn't sound too good, but it benefits from the meta. Speaking of Clear Body, none of the Clear Body users actually get recovery, so Mandibuzz is better than them defensively. Also, Foul Play is pretty good since everything will be boosting its Attack.

 

[Scarf]

Quite like the idea of this OM, unfortunately it didn't seem to get that much attention though so as a last ditch effort to revitalize the thread, here's my thoughts. I've been mulling over some ideas ever since I've first seen the OP. One of them, although it isn't that creative, was how powerful Unaware Pokémon can be. Naturally, I'm thinking of Quagsire and Clefable. Seeing as how about 90% of this entire thread is sets pertaining mons using unorthodox boosting moves to gain stats (Barrier, Work Up, etc.), naturally the one ability that neuters all of this would reign supreme, no? Well, upon actually looking at the mons, one of the first things I've noticed about the two of them is how evenly balanced their stats are. They're not that ideal, but close enough to work with. This is incredibly helpful for gaining stat boosts for whichever type I could possibly want. Fortunately, the two Pokemon are also equipped with a decent movepool, so they've got plenty of choice when it comes to choosing boosting moves. For example:

= 95 HP - 85 Attack - 85 Defence - 65 Spec. Attack - 65 Spec. Defence - 35 Speed
Interesting Moves: Amnesia, Curse, Stockpile.

Not much to go off of here, just 3 moves. User sanjay. found out the hard way that Curse doesn't work out as well as one might have expected. Seeing as how it drops a stat, you're effectively gaining only one stat boost, which is certainly not worth it. The others are a lot more promising, however. Amnesia acts as a Swords Dance for whatever stat you desire, though a lot of investment will be required if you want your Amnesia to actually act as Amnesia and not Iron Defense. The wonderful thing about boosting with Quagsire is that the enemy will be forced to tackle your stat boosts whereas you simply ignore theirs. A spread of (252 HP - 84 Def - 172+ Spec. Def) is required to reach defensive values of 227 (for physical Defence) and 229 (for special Defence), which allows Amnesia to boost your Special Defence, whilst also maximizing your physical bulk. Though no special EV spread is required if you'd rather just use Amnesia as a pseudo-Acid Armor, as the ideal spread maxes Defence. Stockpile is pretty interesting, though. It can boost any two of Quag's 4 major stats (being Attack, Defence, Special Attack and Special Defence) which makes for pretty great versatility and power. Though I predict most players would want to use it to boost Defence and Special Defence. In which case, a spread of (252 HP - 252+ Def) will achieve that in the easiest way. The reason we use Bold nature and 0IVs is because Quag's Attack stat is naturally higher, meaning without reducing it considerably, we'd instead be using Bulk Up, rather than the desired Stockpile. Though, if you want to actually get Bulk Up, a standard Quag spread works fine for that.

So how does it work in practise? I took some of the sets posted earlier and paired them vs a standard Quag with ideal EVs / IVs so that Stockpile boosts both Special Defense and Defense. To reiterate, that's the standard set with a Bold Nature and 0 IVs in Attack. (This of course means that using physical attacking moves is nigh-on useless, though, so this weakens Quag's offensive capabilities.) Some calcs:

Calculations

vs

= 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 148-175 (37.5 - 44.4%)
vs

= 0- SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 396-468 (100.5 - 118.7%)
vs

= 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 169-201 (42.8 - 51%)
vs

= 252+ Atk Mega Swampert Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 160-189 (40.6 - 47.9%)
(Nothing else really comes to mind for relevant calculations, but I'll be sure to add more if they do)

= 95 HP - 70 Attack - 73 Defence - 95 Special Attack - 90 Special Defence - 60 Speed
Interesting Moves: Calm Mind (Cosmic Power / Work Up), Amnesia, Fake Tears.

Clefable is a tad different to Quagsire, in the sense that its defensive stats require a lot of investment to trump its "high" Special Attack. This means strictly investing in Defence (which leaves you vulnerable against those boosting special mons like Thundy, Mega Alakazam and the like) to benefit from Defence raising moves. This is assuming you'd want to go down that route, however. Clefable has a monumental movepool, from which it can pick and choose from dozens of sets. An interesting concept is Fake Tears, which harshly lowers the enemy's highest stat. Though you must be using Magic Guard in order to make the best use out of this, as it directly contradicts with Unaware. Clef has a few Calm Mind clones to choose from, though Work Up is objectively superior due to its higher PP. Another little idea is Nasty Plot bulky Clef. A set like this might do excellently versus bulky teams / balanced that struggle to bust through Clef's tough defences, struggling to stop it from boosting. Think of it similarly to a bulky Tail Glow Manaphy. The set could be Amnesia / Rest / Moonblast / Sleep Talk. Obviously some assistance is necessary in order to get rid of mons like Heatran and Ferrothorn, but with those out of the way it could be unstoppable. Though it is required for Special Attack to be the highest stat. No heavy investment in any one defensive stat is allowed if you want Nasty Plot. For example, you have to run at least 88 Spec. Attack EVs in order to make sure that SpAtk > Def, assuming a fully physically defensive spread. With a specially defensive one, obviously the required SpAtk is lower. One can also opt for Work Up as the boosting move, where the EV spread would be (252 HP - 252+ Def) so that Work Up boosts both Defence and Special Attack. Provided Special Attackers are dealt with / avoided at all costs, you can effortlessly set up on many things and proceed to dismantle their team. That doesn't even scratch the surface when it comes to sets this mon can run. There's all the standard, non-boosting reliant sets that work just fine. Thunder Wave, the greatest move known to mankind, is very valuable to cripple Speed boosting mons. It just goes to show that a Pokémon can be perfectly viable using a standard OU set.

The other little ideas I've had are pretty niche and I cant be bothered to type them out atm so I guess I'll edit this post later with some more thoughts.

 

[TheBlueFiretruck]

I was just wondering, why are the applied boosts based on the actual stat of the pokemon and not the base stat? If I'm not mistaken, Stat Switch was based on the mechanic that the highest and lowest base stat of each pokemon was switched. It seems kind of confusing to me now that the stats can be fudged with EVs. The current way does give the player more control of course, but I'm wondering if for simplicity's sake we should just apply the boosts based on base stats.

 

[EV]

I was just wondering, why are the applied boosts based on the actual stat of the pokemon and not the base stat? If I'm not mistaken, Stat Switch was based on the mechanic that the highest and lowest base stat of each pokemon was switched. It seems kind of confusing to me now that the stats can be fudged with EVs. The current way does give the player more control of course, but I'm wondering if for simplicity's sake we should just apply the boosts based on base stats.

Two main reasons.

1/ Ties
Quite a few Pokemon have more than one base stat that tie. In the event that you apply a boost and a tie is involved, the boost(s) are applied randomly, thus your control over what you want boosted decreases. Using the real stat method, ties are less frequent (due to investments/natures) and easy to break (add 4 EVs/subtract an IV where necessary).

Using base stats means you could never predict what stat is boosted with Mew & co., for example.

2/ Customization

Under my method, I can give Milotic +1/+1 Special Attack/Speed, or I can give it a pseudo-Stockpile, or a special Bulk Up all with the move Coil just by investing in the right locations. This versatility unlocks all sorts of possibilities and lets the trainer cater their Pokemon to the desired role for their team.

Using base stats means you would always give Milotic a special Bulk Up.