X&Y LITTLE CUP VICTIM OF THE WEEK (Week 5, SD Gligar) (SEE POST 207)

With LO, Sneasel is frail enough that you don't want to switch into any attacks, which is what I was talking about. There are obviously plenty of other ways to get it in, but if you get Stealth Rock up you can limit those as well.

"The fact of the matter is, you have a lot to risk going for anything that isn't Drain Punch on your first switch in."

My point was really that this line of thinking is going to lose you a lot of games. In a sense, it's just as "risky" to Drain Punch as it is to use Knock Off, because (as you've pointed out), your opponent is probably going to switch to Gligar, you're going to regain 1 HP, and definitely come out as the loser of this two-turn encounter. However, if you don't lock yourself into thinking "well I have no choice but to Drain Punch here," you can do some damage to Gligar (I realize that Ice Punch doesn't do much to defensive Gligar, but that's why I was primarily talking about Knock Off).

I agree with you for the most part: even Timburr has significant flaws as a counter, especially because of Gligar's presence. But it seems like you're saying that the player with Sneasel can always easily escape unscathed, and it's not quite that bleak.
 
If you switch in on an ice punch, timburr lost 33% of it's health. Even if you knock off a gilgar, you are still at 66% health. You need to switch you at this point because even if you kill with Knock Off and Ice Punch, you won't have enough health to come in on Sneasel again after taking an Earthquake (assuming they don't have acrobatics, which just outright KOs you.)

In fact, let's say every time timburr comes in, sneasel switches to Gilgar.

The first time, you are at 66%, you hit Gilgar with knock off
The second time, timburr is at 33%, you hit Gilgar with ice punch (assuming this combo kills, it might not)
Next time you switch in, you are dead, you still lose if you want to take out gilgar.
 
Exactly. In the scenario you just laid out, you've forced Sneasel out twice while taking three hits (which is worth 77% of its HP if you have SR up) and there's a good chance you've KO'd Gligar. So yes, you need to give Timburr some help (in particular, you need to get and keep Stealth Rock up), but as long as you do, you can put a serious dent in your opponent's Sneasel/Gligar combo.

Your last post makes me think I need to clarify what I'm saying. I am by no means disagreeing with you when you say that Timburr is a flawed counter (if it can even be called a counter at all). I am simply saying that Drain Punch's unreliable recovery and the presence of Gligar should not entirely discourage people from using it as an answer to Sneasel.
 

Electrolyte

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Alright, so the obvious winner of this round was Heysup's Timburr. He has earned +0.5 voting points for future rounds. Congrats and thanks for everyone else who participated this round! There were a lot of great submissions and discussion going on, and I hope this continues.

Here is next week's Victim of the Week:


Tangela @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 5
EVs: 76 Def / 200 SAtk / 200 Spd
Modest Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Ancient Power
- Solar Beam


Tangela might not be super common but it is extremely powerful when provided with Sun support. With an extremely powerful base 100 SpA and destructive STAB move in SolarBeam, few things can continuously tank hits from this monster. All of this is defended by 115 Def and the highest speed stat in the game under Sun. What can possibly counter this thing?

A few things:
~SUN IS UP unless you provide an Auto-Weather Pokemon. If you're using a weather setting move, keep in mind that Sun lasts until you change it.
~The Sun lasts for 5 turns.
~Assume that Ancient Power will never boost Tangela's stats.
~Assume that Sun will NOT be reset (unless your submission can set Sun up)


Good luck to everyone! I will close the submissions period at the end of the week.
 
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Rowan

The professor?
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Vullaby @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 76 SpA / 236 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Air Slash
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Defog

Overcoat prevents Sleep Powder from working. HP Fire and Solarbeam do next to nothing and AncientPower does less than 50% so you can just roost it off. Air Slash is a 75% chance to OHKO.



 
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Taking Koffing

(will edit in 2-3 hours, def. by the end of today)


Koffing @ Eviolite
Levitate
196 HP / 236 SpDef / 36 SAtk
Calm Nature
~ Rest / Will-o-Wisp
~ Sleep Talk
~ Sludge Wave
~ Flamethrower / Will-o-Wisp

None of the attacks 2HKO Koffing, and it has Sleep Talk to deal with Sleep Powder. Sludge Wave and Flamethrower both OHKO Tanglea (in sun)

Rest talk Koffing is also pretty good, checks Swirlx, Yamna, Gilgar, mienfoo, croagunk, etc.
 
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Expulso

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Magby @ Berry Juice
Ability: Vital Spirit
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 36 SpA / 236 SpD
Modest Nature
- Flamethrower
- Psychic
- Hidden Power Grass/Fighting
- Will-O-Wisp/Toxic

AncientPower does 18 damage (75%) or less 92.5% of the time, and SolarBeam does 10-13 damage (41.6-54.1%). HP Fire does 6-8 damage (25-33%). You can switch in on either (though 1/16 to die with SR + Ancient Power) and get Berry Juice recovery (unless HP Fire without SR) and return fire with a 200%+ damage Sun-boosted Flamethrower. Sleep Powder doesn't effect him, due to Vital Spirit.


NOTE: If you switch in to HP Fire without SR, you can't get the recovery, and AncientPower will KO.

Psychic is Magby's most powerful non-Fire Special attack. With HP Grass, Fire/Psychic/Grass coverage is resisted by only Houndour and Deino. Alternatively, you can run HP Fighting, as Fire/Psychic/Fighting coverge is resisted by only Frillish (lol), Slowpoke, Baltoy, and Litwick, of which only Slowpoke sees much use.

Finally, Will-O-Wisp can be used to cripple Physical attackers, due to his lower Physical defense, but Flamethrower also has a 10% burn chance. Toxic can also be used if you are so inclined; personally, I prefer Will-O-Wisp.
 
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Goomy @ Eviolite
Ability: Sap Sipper
Level: 5
EVs: 156 SDef / 236 HP / 76 Def
Calm Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Sludge Bomb
- Protect
- Toxic

With Sap Sipper, Goomy can switch in with no fear of being put to sleep. Eviolite makes Goomy pretty bulky, although its support movepool is relatively barren so there's not a lot it can do besides Toxic stall. Dragon Pulse and HP Fire are chosen as the attacking moves because they have good coverage together.

This set counters the above Tangela because it can switch into any of Tangela's moves (Ancient Power is a 4HKO, HP Fire is a possible 6HKO). Goomy can then proceed to 2HKO with HP Fire, or predict a switch out and use Toxic.
 
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Hmmmm not very many counters out there.

Ekans @ Eviolite
Ability: Shed Skin
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 4 Def / 244 SDef
Careful Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Coil
- Rest
- Sleep Talk / Earthquake

Alright, this set takes a little bit of luck to take down tangela but it has a very good chance to (and always will if something else is already asleep). Solar beam will never 2hko so getting in should be easy. Not taking coil into account, an unboosted gunk shot does 78~104% Damage, meaning it will ohko ~81% of the time after rocks and Life orb recoil (and always put it dead to a 2nd life orb recoil). The problem of course is sleep powder, but with shed skin and sleep talk chances are in your favour. Earthquake I think makes this set more viable in the metagame, but makes it a worse tangela counter so take your pick.

I forgot overcoat protects from powder moves now too. Interesting... I must say corkscrews set has piqued my interest somewhat, may consider it for a hail team I'm trying to brew up.
 
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Timburr @ berry juice
Ability: Guts
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 196 Atk / 236 SpD
Calm Nature
- Ice punch
- Sleep talk
- Rest
- rain dance
This is really shaky as you need to be hit with sleep powder to get a chance otherwise every other move combined with Solarbeam 2HKOs bar 2 solar beams. But this is the only mon that could stand a chance other than the ones already chosen especially corkscrew's vullaby
 
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Croagunk @ Berry Juice
Ability: Poison Touch
Level: 5
EVs: 64 SAtk / 196 SDef / 36 Def / 212 HP
Calm Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Spd
- Sludge Bomb
- Rest
- Vacuum Wave
- Sleep Talk
200+ SpA Tangela Hidden Power Fire vs. 212 HP / 196+ SpD Croagunk in Sun: 10-12 (41.6 - 50%)
200+ SpA Tangela Solar Beam vs. 212 HP / 196+ SpD Croagunk: 9-11 (37.5 - 45.8%)
200+ SpA Tangela Ancient Power vs. 212 HP / 196+ SpD Croagunk: 3-4 (12.5 - 16.6%)
If croagunk switches in, it can take any hit 2 times and after the second hit berry juice activates, unless he gets a 1/16 roll on HP Fire, which auto activates berry juice. Croagunk will then be outsped, easily living the hit and OHKOing back.
64 SpA Croagunk Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tangela: 26-32 (113 - 139.1%)
In the case of Tangela using Sleep powder, you have a 1/3 chance of using sludge bomb, which would OHKO, a 1/3 chance of using vacuum wave, 64 SpA Croagunk Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tangela: 7-9 (30.4 - 39.1%), and a 1/3 chance of using rest, which would do nothing. Meanwhile tangela can barely touch you.
 
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236+ SpA Life Orb Tangela Hidden Power Fire vs. 212 HP / 196+ SpD Dry Skin Croagunk in Sun: 16-19 (66.6 - 79.1%)

you forgot about dry skin. I guess you could run Anticipation, though that would make croagunk a much worse switchin to water types and would remove it's ability to check/counter shell smashers
 
236+ SpA Life Orb Tangela Hidden Power Fire vs. 212 HP / 196+ SpD Dry Skin Croagunk in Sun: 16-19 (66.6 - 79.1%)

you forgot about dry skin. I guess you could run Anticipation, though that would make croagunk a much worse switchin to water types and would remove it's ability to check/counter shell smashers
thanks for noticing, changed to poison touch.
 

Rowan

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Goomy @ Eviolite
Ability: Sap Sipper
Level: 5
EVs: 156 SDef / 236 HP / 76 Def
Calm Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Protect
- Toxic

With Sap Sipper, Goomy can switch in with no fear of being put to sleep. Eviolite makes Goomy pretty bulky, although its support movepool is relatively barren so there's not a lot it can do besides Toxic stall. Dragon Pulse and HP Fire are chosen as the attacking moves because they have good coverage together.

This set counters the above Tangela because it can switch into any of Tangela's moves (Ancient Power is a 4HKO, HP Fire is a possible 6HKO). Goomy can then proceed to 2HKO with HP Fire, or predict a switch out and use Toxic.

Overall, I think Berry Juice would be better for this set since Goomy has no recovery at all. I would also run Sludge Bomb>Hidden Power Fire. If I was going to use Goomy, I wouldn't want to be complete set-up bait for Swirlix. This is more relevant to the metagame overall than just Tangela but for people wanting to actually try this out I would suggest these changes.
 
Overall, I think Berry Juice would be better for this set since Goomy has no recovery at all. I would also run Sludge Bomb>Hidden Power Fire. If I was going to use Goomy, I wouldn't want to be complete set-up bait for Swirlix. This is more relevant to the metagame overall than just Tangela but for people wanting to actually try this out I would suggest these changes.
Thanks for the suggestion; I think I'll slash in Sludge Bomb on the set since it's also a clean 2HKO on Tangela (in addition to the reasons you mentioned). In the sun, they'll actually be doing the same amount of damage, so neither one really outshines the other in this specific scenario. Running HP Fire over Sludge Bomb would give you an issue with Swirlix, on the other hand not running HP Fire would cause a problem with steel-types in general (Like Ferroseed, who can go to town setting up hazards).

Goomy's movepool really holds it back, otherwise it could've been a lot better as a supporter.
 
Well, a Tangela...honestly not surprised to find him here.
Thankfully, there are more options to post here then on Sneasel's victim of the week section.
Here is my set, which I use normally as a stall.


Hippopotas @ Eviolite
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 5
EVs: 252 Def / 200 SDef / 52 HP
Careful Nature
- Protect
- Slack Off
- Toxic
- Substitute/Whirlwind

Now, I know what you may think: Ground is weak to Grass!
Now let me enlighten you:
1st: Why would you switch into Hippo on a Solar beam, switch into Hippo on Ancient Power/HP Fire.
2nd: Hippopotas comes in [even on Solar]. Whoops, no 1 turn Solar Beam because charging? Ok I'll wait the extra turn. Oh wait, Protect? Oops! Waited those 2 turns for nothing. Sleep Powder, oh you have a Substitute up...crap. Ancient Power or HP Fire? Wait, those do around 20% only (according to damage calc) (Note: HP fire isn't Sun Boosted due to Sandstorm)...
[Tangela receives Sandstorm + Toxic + Life Orb damage]
[If you have hazards just use Whirlwind straight away to continually damage Tangela when it switches in]

Slack Off if needed for HP Recovery.
I agree, this isn't nearly the best set for Tangela countering/checking, but I like to mix it up and add creative and original unexpected sets. There are no limits on this thread! :)
 
Taking Koffing

(will edit in 2-3 hours, def. by the end of today)


Koffing @ Eviolite
Levitate
196 HP / 236 SpDef / 36 SAtk
Calm Nature
~ Rest / Will-o-Wisp
~ Sleep Talk
~ Sludge Wave
~ Flamethrower / Will-o-Wisp

None of the attacks 2HKO Koffing, and it has Sleep Talk to deal with Sleep Powder. Sludge Wave and Flamethrower both OHKO Tanglea (in sun)

Rest talk Koffing is also pretty good, checks Swirlx, Yamna, Gilgar, mienfoo, croagunk, etc.
This set...I like it. :)
 
Shouting: I think Koffing has a .39% chance of getting 2HKO'd against HP Fire, which goes up to a 12.11% chance if SR is up. Maybe you forgot to factor in the boost from Sun?

Expulso: I think you forgot LO on Tangela. AncientPower should be a 2HKO on Magby.

BadPandaPancham: If Hippo comes in on SolarBeam, and then uses protect next turn to avoid getting hit, Tangela will be free to use Sleep Powder against the (substitute-less) Hippo on the next turn. So you would probably want to pair Hippo with something like Insomnia Murkrow.


Munchlax @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 236 SDef / 36 SAtk
Sassy Nature
- Body Slam
- Flamethrower / Fire Punch
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

SolarBeam has a .39% chance to 2HKO with Stealth Rock up. HP Fire and AncientPower do next to nothing and Sleep Talk helps with Sleep Powder. In Sun, Flamethrower has a 50% chance to OHKO (and if it doesn't, LO recoil will take care of the rest), while also giving Munchlax a coverage move for Steel-types. Body Slam typically does 39% and has a 30% chance to paralyze Tangela and nullify Chlorophyll.

The set listed is viable in both regular LC and Pokebank. For Pokebank, Fire Punch might be the better option for the metagame as a whole, but Flamethrower is better for the purposes of countering Tangela. This Munchlax is also an incredible counter for any Yanma set (and it can be adjusted for just about an special attacker).
 
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Rowan

The professor?
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Well, a Tangela...honestly not surprised to find him here.
Thankfully, there are more options to post here then on Sneasel's victim of the week section.
Here is my set, which I use normally as a stall.


Hippopotas @ Eviolite
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 5
EVs: 252 Def / 200 SDef / 52 HP
Careful Nature
- Protect
- Slack Off
- Toxic
- Substitute/Whirlwind

Now, I know what you may think: Ground is weak to Grass!
Now let me enlighten you:
1st: Why would you switch into Hippo on a Solar beam, switch into Hippo on Ancient Power/HP Fire.
2nd: Hippopotas comes in [even on Solar]. Whoops, no 1 turn Solar Beam because charging? Ok I'll wait the extra turn. Oh wait, Protect? Oops! Waited those 2 turns for nothing. Sleep Powder, oh you have a Substitute up...crap. Ancient Power or HP Fire? Wait, those do around 20% only (according to damage calc) (Note: HP fire isn't Sun Boosted due to Sandstorm)...
[Tangela receives Sandstorm + Toxic + Life Orb damage]
[If you have hazards just use Whirlwind straight away to continually damage Tangela when it switches in]

Slack Off if needed for HP Recovery.
I agree, this isn't nearly the best set for Tangela countering/checking, but I like to mix it up and add creative and original unexpected sets. There are no limits on this thread! :)
So the scenario goes:

turn 1: Hippo switches in, Tangela charges up
turn 2: Hippo protects, Tangela uses Solarbeam
turn 3: Tangela sleep powders, Hippo doesn't have time to use sub
turn 4: Tangela charges up, Hippo sleeps
turn 5: Tangela uses Solarbeam, which still does 75% (blaraedit: sand doesn't halve its power)
 
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Dratini @ Eviolite
Ability: Marvel Scale (doesnt really matter)
Evs: 108 HP/4 Atk/76 Def/196 SpD/116 Spe
Jolly nature
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Rest
-Sleep Talk


200+ SpA Life Orb Tangela SolarBeam vs. 108 HP / 196 SpD Eviolite Dratini: 8-10 (36.36 - 45.45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Unless Tangela gets a crit or gets those dumb AncientPower boosts, Tangela will never beat Dratini. It will just set up on it. It will easily pp stall solarbeam and ancientpower and hp fire will do absolutely nothing and get to +6 easily. Its a pity fairy types exist..
 

Goddess Briyella

Banned deucer.
All the best stuff is already taken.

Corkscrew's Vullaby and sparktrain's Goomy seem to work the best from what I can gather. I tried working with Eviolite Drowzee, as it has good Special Defense and isn't 2HKOed by any of Tangela's moves, and has Insomnia to block Sleep Powder, but it doesn't have any reliable moves to hit back with, has no recovery outside of Dream Eater, and nothing to really let it hold its own in the current metagame. I tried working with Heatproof Eviolite Bronzor; it takes all of Tangela's attacks nicely but Sleep Powder is a problem. I even tried Calm Skrelp with maximum Special Defense investment, and with Adaptability it doesn't even need offensive investment to cleanly OHKO Tangela with Sludge Bomb, but it can be 2HKOed by Solarbeam. Lastly, I tried Eviolite Foongus with Calm nature and maximum Special Defense investment, but unfortunately, HP Fire in Sun is a 2HKO. It's a shame because it walls the hell out of Solarbeam, doesn't take much from Ancientpower, and is immune to Sleep Powder due to being part Grass-type.

I would just like to say that outside of Corkscrew's Vullaby, sparktrain's Goomy, and Expulso's Magby, the creativity for me unfortunately stops after those three, because having to run RestTalk on everything else takes up two moveslots and severely limits how well something can perform in the metagame. Even if you're willing to gamble with Sleep Talk against Tangela, as well as against other notable threats in the metagame, you really only have two moves you can use as coverage, and there's also a wasteful 1/3 chance of getting Rest when you use Sleep Talk. That doesn't sound like that big of a deal, but put into perspective, 1/3 is a higher chance than Focus Blast has of missing, which makes luck a rather large factor that can obviously mess things up.

That said, I don't mean to put anybody's entries down. ♥ It's just that access to Sleep Powder while getting doubled Speed under harsh sunlight really limits what can be reliably used in accordance to what this thread requires. The amount of things that can potentially "counter" or even attempt to work against Tangela under these conditions is extremely low, and some of them can only attempt to beat it circumstantially (can only have a chance of winning if they do NOT come in on the wrong move).

Edit: Mylo Xyloto's specially defensive Cloud Nine Lickitung looks like a pretty cool answer, as Cloud Nine makes Solar Beam have to charge, which gives you a free turn. sparktrain's Goomy is probably the best answer here objectively to this Tangela set, but I don't think Goomy fares well in the metagame with its Ice and Fairy weaknesses and no real offensive advantages with its STAB. The limitations here are pretty tight.
 
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prem

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so here is my comic answer for dealing with tangela


Yanma @ life orb
252 spa / 252 spe (honestly im too lazy to remember if its like 196/236 or 236/236 so its just max the stat of each and leftovers go somewhere lol)
timid nature
speed boost
-protect
-air slash
-bug buzz
-hp ground

so like you sack something / come in on solarbeam. then you use protect as they think its a futile waste of time. then you win the speed die because yanma speed ties with modest +2 tangela after one speed boost and you use bug buzz tangela dies and you win the game from there.


seriously it works i beat someone like this. #bwlc2013



also im jst going to point out amaura as my not comic answer. someone else can post it if they post it before me im busy writing an essay but yeahhh it wins
 
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Nozzle: Shed Skin would probably be better on Dratini because it gives you a chance to wake up early and Marvel Scale only increases Defense, which doesn't help against Tangela.

Drowzee would actually be a solid Pokebank option because it gets Wish and Thunder Wave but it's 2HKO'd by SolarBeam.

Also Vullaby is 2HKO'd by AncientPower after Stealth Rock.

Goomy is the only thing here that really counters Tangela by our original definition. Koffing is next closest, although there's that small chance of a 2HKO with SR or bad luck with Sleep Talk. Hippo works too, depending on how much removing Sun counts as crippling Tangela.
 
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This is hard. I tried taking away the weather, special sponges, dragons, and nada. Here's a list of pokemon that I tried to slam against this grass knot and none of them could kill it without dying.
Porygon w/ Trace
Spoink / Thick Fat
Lickitung w/ Cloud Nine
Hoppip w/ Chlorophyll
Bronzor w/ Heatproof

When I got to Bronzor, I had the same problem as Briyella had; Sleep powder shut it down. And as I reread the thread, Corkscrew's Vullaby reminded me, isn't there an item that blocks powder moves? And there is. Safety Goggles.

No pokemon's gonna wall Tangela, it's coverage is unresisted until we get a fighting/dragon in LC. And no pokemon is going to outspeed-

Speed.
Speed. Boost.

And then I had my answer. It flies in the face of reason, risky as hell, but it's doable. Meet. . .

The Red Baron

Torchic
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 236 HP / 196 SpDef / 76 Spe
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Overheat / Flamethrower
- Substitute / Will-O-Wisp
- Baton Pass


Oh man, mono-fire Torchic. Well, here's my reasoning. With Safety Goggles, Torchic can come in on literally any attack. Sleep Powder fails instantly, that's the second biggest problem gone. But I did calculations, listed just below this.

200+ SpA Life Orb Tangela Solar Beam vs. 236 HP / 196 SpD Torchic: 12-14 (50 - 58.3%)
200+ SpA Life Orb Tangela Hidden Power Fire vs. 236 HP / 196 SpD Torchic in Sun: 6-8 (25 - 33.3%)
200+ SpA Life Orb Tangela Ancient Power vs. 236 HP / 196 SpD Torchic: 16-21 (66.6 - 87.5%)


It survives all of it's attacks at least once. So, Torchic can switch in, even on Ancient power ( unless it crits on the switch then bye bye birdy ). This is where the madness pays off. Since it switches in, it'll get +1 to it's speed. Hopefully your Tangela player is greedy and stays in, because with Ancient Power ( especially if it hit it with Ancient Power on the switch ), they have a chance of smashing this chick. It might look like to them, the odds are in their favour.

So the order of events looks like so at this time;

Turn 1
X Pokemon Switches out
Torchic switches in!
Torchic gets slapped by Tangela's attack!
Torchic's speed is raised by 1!

Turn 2
This is where we are.

Okay so, Tangela doesn't switch out. Or if it does then standard baton pass shit goes down cool let's move on. This turn is easy: use protect. Everyone knows what protect does, Torchic comes out of turn 2 with another speed boost and Tangela can lose a PP. It's great.

Turn 2
Torchic used Protect!
Tangela's nasty bitch weave misses!
Torchic's speed is raised by 1!

Turn 3
This is where we are now.

So turn three. Depending on heat rock or not, this would be turn 4 of sun, and sun might be over soon. It's grand. But it's still up! Now, with +2 speed, Torchic outspeeds Tangela now. Tangela's speed without investment is 12; with Chlorophyll and Sun it's 24 ( is that how that works it seems like it would be ). But! Torchic with a speed nature and one point in speed hits 13; after two speed boosts it's at 26. At this point, since you are faster than the bush, light that shit. Here are some calculations:

0 SpA Torchic Overheat vs. 0 HP / 200 SpD Tangela in Sun: 44-54 (191.3 - 234.7%)
0 SpA Torchic Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 200 SpD Tangela in Sun: 32-38 (139.1 - 165.2%)


It's gone, amigos. Without sun, more calcs incoming.

0 SpA Torchic Overheat vs. 0 HP / 200 SpD Tangela: 30-36 (130.4 - 156.5%)
0 SpA Torchic Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 200 SpD Tangela: 20-26 (86.9 - 113%)


Tangela's dead. It has two shots at killing you, and that's by critical hitting Ancient Power on the switch, and if you miss overheat. Typical Power over Accuracy debate here. I did have Heat Wave on earlier, but Heat Wave does the same damage as Flamethrower without the sun, so it's useless.

If Tangela hits you with Sleep Powder, HP Fire, or Solar Beam, you can come out of this with around 40-50% hp or even full health, enough to survive some priority attacks ( except Choice Band Huge Power Adamant Max Attack Bunnelby's Quick Attack, and any aqua jets, and Fletchling's Acrobatics ). If you have enough HP, could put up a substitute and baton pass away. If not, just baton pass. If you use overheat, probably want to bpass to something that doesn't care about a -2 to special attack. I originally considered HP Ground to make it not useless against fire types but, then Torchic ain't surviving Ancient Power on the switch. HP Water and Grass ( for Chinchou mostly ) could both be used, since they dont reduce HP or SpDef, but they do reduce SpAtk, which is already shaky being so low and uninvested. Probably only want to use those to kill -really- weak things that don't have priority. So Mono-Fire isnt the worst thing, and in LC Fire goes a long way. Will-O-Wisp is nice to fuck over some Sucker Punch user, or a physical attacker before it smashes Torchic, but BPassing Subs is always amazing.

Also I only started seriously working on this because imagine a torchic wearing goggles and dive bombing some shit, it's adorable.


I would like to withdraw this entry, as it does not counter the Victim of the Week.
 
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