Metagame XY Doubles OU (VR Post #2, Samples Post #3)

zeefable

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XY DOU teams, replays, and usage stats from ORASPL

Week 1


Memoric vs Frania
:charizard-mega-y: :deoxys-attack: :bisharp: :heatran: :gliscor: :hydreigon: vs :manectric-mega: :landorus-therian: :hoopa-unbound: :amoonguss: :porygon2: :volcanion:

zeefable vs JRL
:charizard-mega-y: :deoxys-attack: :bisharp: :raichu: :ferrothorn: :gastrodon-east: vs :gengar-mega: :landorus-therian: :bisharp: :amoonguss: :kyurem-black: :volcanion:

Mishimono vs qsns
(deadgamed)

Week 2

zeefable vs Frania
:kangaskhan-mega: :landorus-therian: :diancie: :volcanion: :ferrothorn: :gastrodon-east: vs :gengar-mega: :landorus-therian: :tyranitar: :amoonguss: :excadrill: :rotom-wash:

qsns vs emma
:manectric-mega: :deoxys-speed: :aegislash: :sylveon: :landorus-therian: :conkeldurr: vs :kangaskhan-mega: :deoxys-attack: :thundurus: :amoonguss: :landorus-therian: :volcanion:

Mishimono vs Memoric
:charizard-mega-y: :deoxys-attack: :bisharp: :shaymin-sky: :landorus-therian: :terrakion: vs :manectric-mega: :landorus-therian: :tyranitar: :jellicent::diancie: :volcanion:

Week 3

zeefable vs Arcticblast
:diancie-mega: :bisharp: :deoxys-attack: :arcanine: :gastrodon: :ferrothorn: vs :gengar-mega: :kyurem-black: :heatran: :landorus-therian: :thundurus: :ferrothorn:

Mishimono vs JRL
:kangaskhan-mega: :amoonguss: :gothitelle: :landorus-therian: :tyranitar: :volcanion: vs :kangaskhan-mega: :keldeo: :bisharp: :diancie: :deoxys-attack: :talonflame:

qsns vs Frania
:kangaskhan-mega: :talonflame: :sylveon: :bisharp: :landorus-therian: :hydreigon: vs :politoed: :kingdra: :swampert-mega: :thundurus: :talonflame: :ludicolo:

Week 4

zeefable vs Mishimono
:sableye-mega: :kyurem-black: :sylveon: :landorus-therian: :thundurus: :genesect: vs :kangaskhan-mega: :deoxys-attack: :volcanion: :bisharp: :shaymin-sky: :landorus-therian:

qsns vs Arcticblast
:charizard-mega-y: :heatran: :terrakion: :landorus-therian: :bisharp: :deoxys-attack: vs :kangaskhan-mega: :aegislash: :volcanion: :deoxys-attack: :landorus-therian: :thundurus:

Frania vs JRL
:kangaskhan-mega: :thundurus: :amoonguss: :volcanion: :deoxys-attack: :landorus-therian: vs :kangaskhan-mega: :volcanion: :gastrodon: :talonflame: :diancie: :landorus-therian:

Week 5

zeefable vs qsns
:gengar-mega: :bisharp: :deoxys-attack: :azumarill: :amoonguss: :kyurem-black: vs :manectric-mega: :sylveon: :landorus-therian: :volcanion: :genesect: :porygon2:

Frania vs Mishimono
:abomasnow-mega: :hoopa-unbound: :porygon2: :talonflame: :conkeldurr: :gyarados: vs :lucario-mega: :shaymin-sky: :deoxys-attack: :bisharp: :landorus-therian: :volcanion:

JRL vs Arcticblast
:kangaskhan-mega: :keldeo: :bisharp: :diancie: :deoxys-attack: :talonflame: vs :manectric-mega: :azumarill: :hydreigon: :landorus-therian: :heatran: :togekiss:

Semifinals

Memoric vs Frania
:gardevoir-mega: :keldeo: :heatran: :togekiss: :amoonguss: :kyurem-black: vs :gengar-mega: :tyranitar: :excadrill: :amoonguss: :rotom-wash: :landorus-therian:

Finals

Mishimono vs Frania
:gengar-mega: :deoxys-attack: :bisharp: :talonflame: :keldeo: :landorus-therian: vs :kangaskhan-mega: :gastrodon: :talonflame: :landorus-therian: :diancie: :volcanion:

Usage Stats
XY DOU

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Landorus-Therian   |   23 |  71.88% |  52.17% |
| 2    | Deoxys-Attack      |   14 |  43.75% |  64.29% |
| 3    | Bisharp            |   13 |  40.62% |  61.54% |
| 3    | Volcanion          |   13 |  40.62% |  46.15% |
| 5    | Kangaskhan         |   11 |  34.38% |  45.45% |
| 6    | Amoonguss          |    9 |  28.12% |  33.33% |
| 7    | Talonflame         |    8 |  25.00% |  50.00% |
| 8    | Diancie            |    7 |  21.88% |  42.86% |
| 9    | Gengar             |    6 |  18.75% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Thundurus          |    6 |  18.75% |  50.00% |
| 11   | Manectric          |    5 |  15.62% |  60.00% |
| 11   | Gastrodon          |    5 |  15.62% |  40.00% |
| 11   | Heatran            |    5 |  15.62% |  40.00% |
| 11   | Kyurem-Black       |    5 |  15.62% |  20.00% |
| 15   | Keldeo             |    4 |  12.50% |  75.00% |
| 15   | Charizard          |    4 |  12.50% |  75.00% |
| 15   | Ferrothorn         |    4 |  12.50% |  75.00% |
| 15   | Sylveon            |    4 |  12.50% |  50.00% |
| 15   | Tyranitar          |    4 |  12.50% |  25.00% |
| 20   | Shaymin-Sky        |    3 |   9.38% | 100.00% |
| 20   | Porygon2           |    3 |   9.38% |  66.67% |
| 20   | Hydreigon          |    3 |   9.38% |   0.00% |
| 23   | Terrakion          |    2 |   6.25% | 100.00% |
| 23   | Excadrill          |    2 |   6.25% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Rotom-Wash         |    2 |   6.25% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Genesect           |    2 |   6.25% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Hoopa-Unbound      |    2 |   6.25% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Conkeldurr         |    2 |   6.25% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Aegislash          |    2 |   6.25% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Togekiss           |    2 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 23   | Azumarill          |    2 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Lucario            |    1 |   3.12% | 100.00% |
| 32   | Raichu             |    1 |   3.12% | 100.00% |
| 32   | Deoxys-Speed       |    1 |   3.12% | 100.00% |
| 32   | Politoed           |    1 |   3.12% | 100.00% |
| 32   | Kingdra            |    1 |   3.12% | 100.00% |
| 32   | Swampert           |    1 |   3.12% | 100.00% |
| 32   | Ludicolo           |    1 |   3.12% | 100.00% |
| 32   | Gardevoir          |    1 |   3.12% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Abomasnow          |    1 |   3.12% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Gyarados           |    1 |   3.12% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Sableye            |    1 |   3.12% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Gliscor            |    1 |   3.12% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Jellicent          |    1 |   3.12% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Arcanine           |    1 |   3.12% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Gothitelle         |    1 |   3.12% |   0.00% |
 
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Memoric

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[THREAD UPDATES]

[VIABILITY RANKINGS]


The XY DOU VR has been updated once again! We voted on every nomination posted on this thread from post #6 onwards. Also, we now have zeefable as part of the Unofficial XY DOU Council, and she is part of the voter pool for this recent slate! We thank MajorBowman for his time in being part of this project.

The voters for this slate are myself, Mishimono, qsns, SMB, and zeefable.

Falls:

:talonflame:Talonflame: 2 -> 3
:Aegislash:Aegislash: 3 -> 4
:hoopa-unbound:Hoopa-U: 3 -> 4
:kingdra:Kingdra: 3 -> 4
:ludicolo::Ludicolo: 3 -> 4
:scrafty:Scrafty: 3 -> 4

Rises:

:bisharp:Bisharp: 4 -> 3
To see the new updated VR with these changes in effect, please see the second post on this thread!

That should be it! New metagame shifts may happen while ORASPL is happening, so stay tuned! If not, expect this thread to updated just after the upcoming DPL!
 

zeefable

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following the conversation between KyleCole and qsns that I tuned in to last night (and that you can watch on Kyle's YouTube page), I wanted to chime in and give a lot of thoughts on XY.

I'm going to start with my personal VR, giving commentary on stuff that I think stands out. One thing to note is that I will be ordering my VR.

My Personal Viability Rankings

>>Tier 1<<


Landorus-T


Mega Gengar


Volcanion

Commentary:
I'm not exactly sure that this is controversial or anything, and I don't intend for it to be. Landorus is good and everyone knows it. Rocks go such a long way in a metagame where the ratio of bulk to power is relatively equal, if not in bulk's favor, and it just does So Much. Intimidate is especially helpful for your fatter walls for preservation, powerful and relatively fast Earthquake make it a great cleaner, and it has the bulk and versatility to make a variety of sets work from Rocks Rocky Helmet to Assault Vest to the more offensive brands of Scarf or Life Orb.

I think that Mega Gengar's definitely on a bit of a decline but I'm not ready to drop it out of Tier 1 yet. The meta is currently in an aggressive state that will come to pass, and I don't even think Gengar is horrible as is. As the Podcast Bros mentioned, Offensive Trick Room is my personal favorite set right now because it gives you lots of control and ability to support teammates while still being offensively inclined. Taunt is great for Amoonguss weak teams I will add, but I wouldn't use Substitute or Will-O-Wisp Gengar in today's climate. Frania also almost caught me off guard with HP Ice Gengar in ORASPL and it's something that's in my builder as well, though I do miss a lot of the bulk that other Gengar sets can afford.

Volcanion is just a beast. It hits the field and gets to clicking, and it's so fat that even double ups of non SE hits are unlikely to deal it a finishing blow. Hits like a truck and has an excellent speed tier for working well with TR, Para-spreading teams, or just its natural pace. Goggles is the convention and I will stand by it, because any XY team without 2 Spore switchins is bad; however, Assault Vest was mentioned on last night's show and I gotta agree that the extra bulk is great when it comes to standing up to Thundurus and Gengar, and the added benefit of "affording" a 4th move like Overheat or HP Grass is really nice!

>>Tier 2<<

- the meta overprepares for it and it still manages to make significant impacts in almost every game it touches, god shroomer.
Amoonguss

- Kangaskhan's my personal favorite mega currently, it's fast paced without being frail and is great for getting a lot of damage spread across the board for spread attackers like Sylveon and Landot. Watch for Rocky Helmet and remember to set Kangaskhan-Mega to Scrappy in the teambuilder.
Mega Kangaskhan

- Strong Ice coverage at a speed faster than 91 is just way to good. The big ball of stats is also solid into Volcanion and outspeeds and OHKOs Bisharp, though I wouldn't recommend switching it in of course. Scarf is a great set too for hard and fast damage. Good mon.
Kyurem-B

- A bit worse in practice than on paper but every XY team should be prepared for this or it's bad. Thunder Wave can really cripple aggressive builds without the bulk to survive Not Going First, and it just hits hard on top of that. I don't like Defiant as much as most people but it does work.
Thundurus-I

- I like just voted this thing to 3 but honestly I think 2 would be fitting for it as well. With its HO friends or just by itself, Bisharp crushes fat builds thanks to the tier's general lack of Dark resists and the omnipotence of Knock Off, Defiant, and Priority. Almost all good Bisharp builds are pretty well supported too, with ample amounts of redirection and Fake Out or all partners packing just as much of a punch as it is.
Bisharp

- Sub CM is a demon that can legit 1vX whenever it feels like. Hard to kill easily and good matchups with a lot of the middle of this list on paper, even better in practice once things are chipped.
Sylveon

- I was the only person that voted for this not to drop from Tier 2 I think. I like that CB is a great anti HO mon, but I also think that it itself is solid on offense, and that the rise of HO could likely see Tailwind make a legitimate appearance. Also haven't tried it but [redacted]bird sounds very funny and I'd love to make it work with Gengar/Manectric some time.
Talonflame

>>Tier 3<<


- no one runs rock resists so sometimes the thing just wins on its own. Can't be intimidated, sets Trick Room, stuff dies.
Diancie

- the offense uptick and increase in fighting moves surely isn't kind to Tyranitar. Don't think it sucks or anything, 3 attacks rocks is a great set, naturally good into Gengar and Charizard, but not so much their friends. Just an awkward time to be a Tyranitar, but still not bad.
Tyranitar

- Charizard just melts stuff. Pair it with Deoxys-A and Bisharp to form an offensive core so aggressive and powerful that fat has no choice but to crumble before it. Things DIE to Overheat. Like, Omega Die. Heat Wave creates pins with the strong single target attacking partners. Good mon.
Mega Charizard Y

- Intimidate, "positive" Gengar matchup, relatively bulky and reliable pivot. A real honest Pokemon so don't have much else to say.
Mega Manectric

- possibly the most drastic change and I don't think I'll get any nods of approval on it, but god Gastrodon is so GOOD. Rock resist that threatens all of the Tier 1s with the exception of HP Grass Volcanion, Toxic + Recover makes it a win condition that has to be respected, slower than a large number of Trick Room attackers, the list goes on. I love Gastrodon.
Gastrodon

- rain but you don't get hit by Thunder Wave.
Mega Swampert

- sets rain
Politoed

- I swear this thing is fucking bonkers if you can 1) support it with toxic 2) not lose your eviolite 3) not lose to Amoong. It just doesn't die, hits really hard at +1, great Trick Roomer for semi TR teams, but is susceptible to getting overwhelmed if not careful.
Porygon2

- I'd imagine a lot of people just don't know where to put this right now. With the resurgence of Charizard there have been thoughts that it can mount a comeback over Volcanion, but the only time the duo was seen together so far in ORASPL it took a loss so quickly that it didn't really get to demonstrate the strengths of Fire Spam properly. I think this is a fair spot for it until better strategies emerge.
Heatran

>>Tier 4<<

- Hyper Offense incarnate. Deoxys lives on a knife's edge always, but finding the perfect partners to pair it with ensures it does more than just trades, and that's what makes it so dangerous really - if Deoxys accomplishes more than just trading it's likely too late for you, because that means both it and its partner are likely still kicking and ready for another round of OHKOs. I still can't rate it higher than 4 as much as I want to, it does suffer from some 4MSS on the third attack, priority will send it to the shadow realm, and any speed control invalidates it outside of extremespeed, which isn't really getting KOs on its own.
Deoxys-A

- I think keld is cool!! It's a pretty sizeable liability into anything with a Thund, but I respect it for the great speed tier and solid 1 on 1 matchups vs so much of this list. A big part of its viability comes from the geniekillers brand admittedly, which has its own set of problems, so no higher than high tier 4.
Keldeo

- It's a rock resist, quite a difficult one to remove at that. Leech + Lefties gives it pretty reliable recovery. Great endgame mon in a tier where removing Fire coverage really isn't that hard. Also CB is the truth.
Ferrothorn

- big damage. breaks protect. sets trick room.
Hoopa-U

- BW Jellicent stuff but now there are more Ghost and Dark types so it gets knocked down a lot. I still account for this in the builder because it has scary end game potential.
Jellicent

- people say I'm crazy for this but after it knocked me out of XY Cup I learned to respect it. Hits hard and has the all in one speed control package, physical bulk being equivalent to that of some cup noodles doesn't mean too much when it's near universally paired with redirection and Intimidate
Mega Gardevoir

- Choice Band just hits really hard, a powerful U-turn is a great tool to have to reposition your board. Really like it on those stax teams qsns used in DPL.
Genesect

- rock resist with decent damage output, you can do some cool things with like SubToxic that I think farm fat. Shadow Sneak is great for the rising popularity of Deoxys-A.
Aegislash

- just voted on this, rain is pretty poor in the current meta, and even on rain I rate the Pokemon that can't get Prankster Thunder Wave'd much higher
Kingdra

- see above
Ludicolo

- dropping this a rank because it's just very unimpressive. If I want a dark in this meta I know who I'm calling up, and there are far better options for threatening something like Kyurem-B. Good Gengar/Volcanion MU is enough to keep it ranked.
Hydreigon

- helps check the most dangerous on paper mon in the tier, fast fake out, good utility moves, but lacks any real offensive pressure which is a big opportunity cost to HOs
Raichu

- can auto win if your opponent leaves spread moves at home, really threatening, read up about my XY cup team. Very difficult to pull off effectively though
Azumarill

- always been a bit of a do nothing mon in my eyes but pairs well with Trick Room teams which might have a pretty legit niche atm due to Zard/Deo/Sharp HO
Scrafty

- has a real annoying toolkit that can be taken advantage of on slower teams if 1) you don't want to add Jellicent for the worse Bisharp MU 2) you want Tailwind, though in the meta atm I don't think this is a super important point
Suicune

UR everything ranked but not here
 
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