Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[Kairyu_Gen1]

shocked that anyone could rank Megacham as B+, in my and the common majority's eyes it easily A-. And because of these rediculosly long postst 1 person may stop that. Tbh i dont have much to say bout megacham other than almost nothing being able to switch in as it has accsess to al 3 punches and HJK, its massie power and awesome speed for a wallbreaker, ect. I just think it should CLEARLY be A-

Remember, megacham is still finding exactly where it fits into a meta game without lucario, so where he currently is probably doesn't reflect his actual viability. I'm all for an A- move

And Xcreated , wait til we get to the rank of the Pokemon you want to nominate, not the rank you want to nominate them fo

 

[Srn]

I don't know why you are comparing an S rank pokemon to a B+ pokemon, because that is really unfair.

In fairness I brought that up, trying to show that 100 base speed, no set up, no priority and poor bulk (at least on one side) is not crippling enough for at least one wall breaker. And then we kind of went with it.

Mega medicham doesn't necessarily have 4MSS, as the only thing you are factoring our is either fire coverage or thunder coverage, and hopefully if you choose thunder, your team can handle, or should handle, Aegislash or something.

If it loses to something because of a coverage move it runs (loses to gyarados without Thunderpunch, loses to Aegislash without Fire Punch, Loses to Gliscor/Lando-T without Ice Punch) then that's called 4MSS buddy.

While Mega Medicham doesn't run recovery, a lot of Zard Y or X do not run recovery for the coverage, (i.e focus blast on charizard to get tyranitar or heatran, or EQ on zard X to get heatran or something like that).

That's not true at all lol
The bulky dd spread for Char X is, I believe, picking up some traction lately, and it's an excellent set. It can find set up opportunities everywhere, and thanks to roost and some great key resistances like electric and fire, recovery on Zard X is great. Roost is a very valid option on Char-X as of now.
And the very same goes for Char-Y, it's really not too hard to just slap a keldeo on there and take care of tyranitar or run focus blast and then a tyranitar to combat the lati@s. Viable pokemon offer great synergy with char-y, removing each others checks for each other.
If you went to go see moveset analyses for the statistics, you wouldn't see eq+Focus blast Char-y often, because its really stupid. Roost is practically a mandatory move on Char-Y for a reason.
You may be right (for now) that a lot of Zard X don't run recovery, but with Zard Y, you're wrong.

Now your issues with Megacham:

Flaws:
Sub-par speed: Ok, you can't say this while you are complementing Char Y, don't care if he's bulky, we are talking about speed right now.

I'm complementing char-y for his bulk, not for his speed. It's your loss if you don't want to care how bulky he is.

Bad defensive typing: Being weak to Ghost is bad, but Flying- coverage is only found with Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, and Char Y.

You're forgetting Staraptor too, and Char Y never run flying coverage, air slash is retarded. Tornadus-T can decide to be balls and run Hurricane as well.

Terrible Bulk overall: True, but why would you need bulk against walls? Since you are a wall breaker, you really do not need bulk against like a Chansey, and you are gonna go for HJK if the opponent doesn't have any ghost type left.

Wallbreakers aren't just used for walls. If they were, they would be completely useless against HO, which they aren't.
Nothing needs bulk to go against Chansey, not helping your argument.
And you would want bulk against walls because you still want to be able to switch in to their weak attacks. Mega Medicham can't even do this several times. You're putting a huge burden on your teammates if you need to bring him in safely every time you want to wallbreak.

No set-up moves: I don't see why would you need set-up moves with such raw power, Mega mawile carries SD because it horribly depends on priority, but hey Char Y doesn't get set-up moves either, unless you count Roost, which really doesn't support your argument, Mega cham hits harder than Char Y and both of them do not have set-up moves.

Char-Y actually gets both Flame charge and Tailwind, which are pretty cool options. Mega Cham, on the other hand, why wouldn't you want set up moves? If you didn't have 4MSS and medicham got access to SD, despite its insane power, people would use it. Do you want to know why?
Because it doesn't matter how strong you are, if you can pump your power levels even higher it will be better.

No reliable strong priority move: CharY doesn't have priority doe ... While I do agree his priority is not the strongest, you will not even need priority in wallbreaking.

Char y doesn't need priority because he has decent bulk and recovery to compensate for his sub-par base speed. Mega Medicham has nothing.
And I've already addressed the priority in wallbreaking argument:

And when you say Priority Moves are almost entirely useless for a dedicated wall breaker, you're horribly wrong.

Let's say we have a 252 hp lando-t.
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 250-294 (65.4 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 70-83 (18.3 - 21.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

This means that with just about 15% prior damage, the CRUMBLER (a dedicated wallbreaker) can beat tank Lando-T. The extra 18% damage is extremely crucial for finishing off the wall, and without, you would be forced to switch out or die.
Priority moves are most certainly NOT entirely useless for a dedicated wall breaker.

No "free moveslots": Already stated.
Has to deal with 80 base speed on turn 1: This is only situational, if you are gonna mega evolve your Medicham on something that usually has maximized speed and has more than base 80 speed, then you don't know anything about mega pokemons, all you need to do is mega evolve it on a chansey or something.

Well gee, easier said than done. Contrary to popular belief, not all teams carry chansey, or something that mega medicham can safely mega evolve on. In fact, if you're facing HO, it's likely that you'll never even get to mega evolve because your super low speed and low defenses will probably just kill you before you can do anything. I do in fact know a lot of things about mega pokemons, and I do realize that mega evolving on something faster than you isn't the best idea. But why is that? Maybe it's because you're piss frail and slow as hell before you mega evolve. It's much easier said than done to safely get mega cham in and mega evolve him while actually keeping him alive.

Mega char Y obviously is better than Mega Medicham, we are nominating Mega cham for A- rank, and not S, plus Mega Char Y is a special wallbreaker, Mega Medicham is a physical one.

I mean something physical that can do clean(maximum) 71.8% to a Skarmory with a neutral hit (HJK) is something.
While CB Terrakion only does (maximum) 59.5% to Skarmory w/ CC.

The raw power over speed is worth it, because Mega Medicham is not a sweeper, he's just a wallbreaker.

CB terrakion atleast has a fantastic speed tier, some actual bulk, and free moveslots to work with.
And the only real argument I still see for mega cham is raw power.
Oh, to all those people who keep screaming at me about Mega Medicham's speed:
100 base speed is all right, but what makes it bad on mega medicham is the fact that it has no good priority or bulk to compensate for its sub-par speed. It's so frail that it relies on a mediocre 100 base speed to combat offensive threats, which it simply cannot do.
If any experienced Mega Medicham user can pull up a valid strength that mega medicham has outside of raw power, I'd be delighted to know.

 

[Niftyyyy]

It's really not that hard to keep rocks off the field though. With defoggers, offensive and defensive, you effectively discourage the opponent from taking the time to set hazards. Keep in mind that, if the opponent has a defogger, all you have to do is set rocks repeatedly to keep yourself safe from their rocks as well thanks to defog.
On the other hand, a stealth rock resistance doesn't help medicham's issue of bulk in anyway.



Well yeah, but Y-zard isn't supposed to take physical hits that well, its built to take special hits better. Also, keep in mind that Y-zard has some nice resistances to common physical attacking moves, like fighting and bug, as well as an immunity to ground.
Medicham on the other hand, folds to neutral hits in general and sports no real resistances to take advantage of.



But why would you ever run Recover? It's like running Roost on Staraptor, it's just dumb.
Let's take a look at Rotom-W vs. both of these guys, and how Medicham performs with Recover.
Just ignoring that for a moment Rotom-W cannot burn :P

4 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Medicham: 142-168 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Medicham: 91-108 (34.8 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

4 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 108-128 (36.2 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 140-168 (46.9 - 56.3%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO

As we can see, Mega Medicham cannot reliably even take attacks from an uninvested tank. Char-Y on the other hand, despite being weak to both STABs, can reliably switch in (ignoring rocks) on a hydro pump, roost off any damage, neuter Volt Switch damage with said roost, and Fry Rotom-W with a Solarbeam 100% of the time. (something Mega Medicham can't do without rocks.)


Don't see the point you're trying to make here...


Ok I get that ariados is pretty bad, but do you know what web passing even does? It baton passes a sticky web to another pokemon, meaning that the pokemon is forced to stay in even when ariados is out. If this is something like a sylveon without toxic, it's just easy set up fodder for a pokemon like volcorona, which could probably set up straight to +6 as sylveon, trapped, cannot do anything.

Obviously, ariados is total shit and you'll probably never pull this strategy off, but it's only shit because the users of it are shit. If there was a viable pokemon that could baton pass a trapping move it would be way more than "useful" in EVERY tier.



That's not true in the slightest. You could take practically any strong neutral hit in the tier and KO Mega Medicham with only 20% prior damage or less, practically without exception. It is weak to both hits of the spectrum and cannot take hits in general.
Chariard-Y, on the other hand, can actually take survive moves like Landorus Psychic/Sludge Wave, or special hits from revenge killers in general. Look:

252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 205-244 (68.7 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 236-278 (79.1 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's one of the tiers strongest special attackers, STAB move, that's SUPER EFFECTIVE. AND CHAR-Y LIVES IT. WITH NO INVESTMENT AT ALL.
Want to see how Mega Medicham fares?

252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Medicham: 265-313 (101.5 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Medicham: 306-360 (117.2 - 137.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Literally any strong neutral hit is enough to take out this thing. You can mention Talonflame, or Terrakion, or physical Rock moves, but yeah, Char-y is just as frail as Mega Medicham on the physical spectrum. But on the special spectrum, he has enough bulk to live the craziest shit, uninvested. That was a friggin STAB SE CHOICE SPECS HYDRO PUMP FROM 129 BASE SPECIAL ATTACK. IT LIVES.
You can't possibly use the word "marginally" when there's such a vast difference in special bulk.


So? Y-zard has fantastic special bulk to complement decent speed, while Medicham possesses nothing.


Yeah, and?



Umm, Y-zard doesn't have the speed or bulk to blow past offensive threats?
Jee, do I have to pull this insane calc back?

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 236-278 (79.1 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That would be considered by MANY to be a solid check to Char-Y, but there it is, living it and firing back with a solarbeam for the KO.
As demonstrated, Char-Y has the special bulk to live potential revenge killers such as the one mentioned above. He CAN live strong special neutral hits and retaliate back or Roost. You have to make sure that your offensive check is physical, because if it isn't, it might just live and kill you right back or just Roost stall in your face as it survives a draco. Speaking of Dracos

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 246-290 (82.5 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Medicham: 316-372 (121 - 142.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

You could just Roost if you're at full and outstall the "good check your opponent has for it" and eventually force it out, making another pokemon have to eat a sun boosted STAB Fire Blast. Mega Medicham, on the other hand, just dies.



Baton Pass is definitely a cool idea, but there are better pokemon to match up with bisharp. What does Medicham really offer for Bisharp other than being an unreliable and frail fighting resist? The core you mentioned is really dangerous, I agree, but mega medicham isn't really offering much synergy to this core (or to any core in general)

(Also keep in mind that
1) Focus Punch must be run with Sub on Mega Mawile
2) The things you're trying to hit with Ice punch outspeed you and hit you with eq anyway, so it has to be on the switch. Pretty situational and the opportunity cost is way too high, Mega Mawile doesn't have moveslots to spare. Ice Punch not worth it on Mega Mawile. But enough on him.)


Again, if you run Thunderpunch, you lose to aegislash, which is a much bigger issue. Any player switching in a slowbro on Mega Medicham should, in general, not have to to worry about T-Punch. As stated before though, Baton Pass is a cool move on him.


Latias is considered safe Imo because we all know Bullet Punch is pretty bad in the first place, most of the experienced players here, as far as I know, don't run BP on him anyway.
Also, a bulky starmie (dunno why'd you be running him but w/e) can switch in with relative ease, recover off most damage, and threaten back with a burn from scald.
However, it doesn't take HJK well at all :/ but that's only with 248/32 physical bulk.
Defensive Celebi also fares somewhat well, taking around 60% max from Ice Punch, but it isn't good enough.

Yeah, there's not a lot of things to take it well. But if we extend the list to things slower that can take two hits, bulky psychics like Reuniclus and Slowbro immediately come to mind, both of which take Medicham on fairly well.



This was what you said:



Or more importantly



I was just proving that part wrong. I never said priority was extremely helpful to Medicham (because it isn't).



Being able to hit like a truck, however, is the only real thing that Mega Medi has going for it right now (which is also the only thing Rampardos has going for it, just to a much worse extent)
I definitely didn't ask for a direct comparison in the same tier, but they both share a lot of characteristics, namely:
Bad defensive typing
No Bulk
No good priority
Mega Medicham suffers from lack of set up move (while Rampardos actually has access to rock polish)
Rampardos has terrible base speed (Mega Medicham's is somewhat salvageable)
Hit like dump trucks.

A direct comparison is out of the question, but they undoubtedly share a lot of traits.



Yes, Mega Medicham doesn't have the bulk, its true. But it would be alright if it had a little more speed too, to offset its bad bulk. It doesn't.
Again, I divide wallbreakers into two three classes:
The bulky: Aegislash, Azumarill, Mega Mawile
Balanced-ish: Char-Y, Mega garchomp, Kyu-B, Bisharp
The super fast: Terrakion, Keldeo, Landorus, SD Garchomp, Thundurus, Mega Pinsir

The Bulky, obviously, are pretty slow but they have great bulk, typing, and strong priority to fit in.
Mega Medicham clearly doesn't fit in here.

The Balanced-ish: They sit at a decent enough speed-tier, but while still not good enough, they can still compensate with decent bulk or typing and/or the ability to set up, or provide some other good niche to separate it.
Mega Medicham doesn't fit into here either, he doesn't have decent bulk or typing or the ability to set-up. He doesn't really have any super unique niche other than just hitting hard.

The super fast: These guys blaze above the crowded 100 base speed tier. They hit hard and fast, usually carry a LO, and are sometimes a secondary win-condition. They outpace a good amount of offensive threats and can dent a lot of things with easy to spam STABS.
Mega Medicham doesn't really manage to fit in here either, as it cannot be relied on as a secondary win-condition and cannot outpace a good amount of offensive threats.

This is the reason why I don't agree with mega medicham in A-, I like to categorize wallbreakers as bulky or as fast, and Mega Medicham is neither.



The heatran is what your 3rd moveslot (4th is roost) is usually dedicated to. Earthquake is what I and a lot of other people prefer, but Focus blast is a popular option to hit Tyranitar as well. Then again, Tyranitar isn't that hard to deal with.
Unless the Latis are specs, Char-Y lives LO Draco from full health and can proceed to Roost stall and force it out. Obviously this probably doesn't happen in real battles, but just saying, it still wins 1v1.
Chomp, I'm sure, takes about 50% from solarbeam, so if its switching in and doesn't carry Stone Edge (and isn't banded Outrage) you win.
Tyranitar and Hippowdon are super easy to take care of with Keldeo, a common partner found alongside him often.



:]



The thing is, unlike Char-Y who functions fairly well with just two moves, Mega Medicham does not do the same. MCham desperately needs every coverage he can get, and definitely needs the coverage over some measly Fake Out.
And his speed is not solid at all, iffy at best. 100 base speed really isn't anything to write home about for a pokemon with no bulk or good priority




But why would you use Bulk Up for wall breaking purposes if you hit harder with just two moves? You're still very very vulnerable to powerful special attackers even after a boost, scarfed or not.
And the whole "staying power" argument still doesn't really work when you have bad defensive typing, bad bulk, no recovery, and no priority.
It can't use it decently at all, 9 times out of 10 it will be better off running a coverage move or just attacking twice.


Yeah, I know. If you do wanna run both, you have terrible coverage and plenty of easy switch-ins.



First off, Slowbro can take anything mega medicham has to offer but Thunderpunch, which is extremely rare, irrelevant, and sports a high opportunity cost.
Also, that replay was pretty atrocious, and proved absolutely nothing. The opponent played terribly with a very poorly built team, and was obviously unprepared for a pokemon like that. I mean come on, when a team doesn't have a single choice scarfer, and you have a super effective move on your wallbreaker that outspeeds every member on his team, it's really nothing impressive. If the team was made slow enough, even a damn rampardos could do exactly the same. Replay was terrible and proved absolutely nothing lol.

Also, Tentacruel loses as earthquake is a common coverage option, and tentacruel can barely scratch it in return. Blissey is a good counter, yeah, but Blissey counters every special attacker that doesn't boost or use psyshock/secret sword. It's not really a valid argument.

While Medicham does indeed defeat bulky teams easily, that's a very very small majority of the teams you'll be facing. Most teams have atleast two pokemon that can outspeed and OHKO mega medicham with only 20-30% prior damage, with their main STAB, GUARANTEED.
And other wallbreakers can actually do this on their own for the most part. SD mega garchomp can own venutran, fire blast skarm, own chansey, and it usually gets past the other two members as well, something like clefable or something idk not much of an issue. There certainly exist wallbreakers that exist that can tear apart stall teams on its own, and several of them are much better than mega medicham. It's not that big of an accomplishment for a dedicated wallbreaker to decimate a stall team that has no resistances and nothing faster than it.



Are you for real? Roost is a fantastic option on Raptor? Hello?


When was mega medicham's issues of bulk and typing ever addressed before in the thread? If they have been, they clearly didn't discuss it thoroughly enough, because this discussion is still going on.



Every pokemon has flaws, you can't just carelessly check off that and move on. Char-Y's only real prominent flaw is his sub-par speed (in my eyes), but Mega Medicham has a lot more to worry about, like bulk, typing, recovery, 4MSS, sub-par speed, and lack of priority to make up for the aforementioned.

Needs some support: Definitely. You literally need a bulky pivot answer to every pokemon that's strong and faster than him because he dies to practically every attack. Your teammates carry the HUGE burden of getting Mega Medicham in safely and cushioning any hit to keep him alive, because frankly, he takes huge damage from just about any attacker in OU atm. The opportunity cost to keep him alive and use him effectively is way too high for A-

Give Free turns: Yeah, not much at all. In fact, he's the one giving up free turns everytime you're forced out because that Keldeo can straight up OHKO your frail pink ass.

Does the job well and majority of the time: Check. yeah, he's strong, and that's why people use him. He does his job of being strong really well, but this alone doesn't carry him into B+

Just pretend Mega Medicham wasn't insanely strong for a second (say, remove Pure Power)
Does he have any redeeming qualities to him at all?

Another main flaw I'd like to bring up with Mega Medicham are his STABs.
His STABs alone give you terrible coverage, and you're forced to take up moveslots that could be used for Substitute, Baton Pass, or a bunch of other cool options with coverage moves that are necessary for you to uphold your title of 2HKO'ing the entire tier. You're really strapped for moveslots, and you don't have some "magic coverage combo" that gives you all you need to free up your moveslots.
Wallbreakers that boast this "magic coverage combo" are pokemon like Terrakion and Char-Y, which can, for the most part, function entirely off of their Rock/fighting STABs and Fire/Grass coverage, respectively. This effectively frees up moveslots which allows them to cover up the pokemon that can take their "magic coverage combo."

As if all the flaws I stated weren't enough, mega medicham suffers from not having access to this either. He has no two moves to function with, he always always needs coverage to truly be a wallbreaker and not lose to extremely common pokemon. He has no room for extra moveslots.

But wait!
There's even more!
Yet another flaw mega medicham has to struggle with is his "pre"evo, normal medicham. Mega Medicham is stuck with a totally garbage 80 base speed and still has no bulk, so on top of being difficult to bring in and keep alive, you have to deal with 80 base speed for a turn in which it could just totally straight up die.

So to summarize my view on Mega Medicham.
His strengths: Raw power
Decent Versatility (Can use a lot of different coverage moves, and moves like Sub and Baton Pass)

Flaws: Sub-par speed
Bad defensive typing
Terrible Bulk overall
No set-up moves
No reliable strong priority move
No "free moveslots"
Has to deal with 80 base speed on turn 1.

Sorry, but despite his raw power, there's just too much holding him back.
Keep at B+

I'm only commenting on your first nonsense paragraph, which was flawed enough that I didn't want to read the rest of what you had to say.

Defog carries the risk of putting Bisharp or defiant Thundurus at +2... Spinners can be blocked by ghosts. Stealth rock in that sense, only backfires if the opponent carries a magic bounce user. Magic bounce users I noticed were completely absent from SPL.

The player who sets rocks can do so on a forced switch whenever they choose to. They are not required to use the move to prevent one or two of their mons being auto crippled on entry.

Defog or rapid spin are used out of necessity for Charizard and other pokemon. You are more likely to lose momentum getting rid of rocks than setting them up.

The player who has to remove rocks will often have more trouble due to the NEED to spend a turn switching in, a turn defogging and a turn switching out...

Also your argument that the Charizard user can get around this by setting their own rocks and forcing a defog from the opponent is also flawed. Why would your opponent get rid of rocks with defog unless they too were using something crippled by it? If they had Mega Medicham, Garchomp or Mawile for their wall breaker along with a team built not too weak to rocks, it can be viable to not even run any form of hazard removal. They can just let their opponent suffer from it more than they do.

Due to these reasons, your comment that running a defogger in the team is an easy fix to rocks is just plain wrong. As already mentioned, relying on your opponent to remove their rocks is unreliable and it does not really strengthen your argument for Charizard over Medicham.

 

[RufflesPro]

If it loses to something because of a coverage move it runs (loses to gyarados without Thunderpunch, loses to Aegislash without Fire Punch, Loses to Gliscor/Lando-T without Ice Punch) then that's called 4MSS buddy.

That's not what I meant, run Ice Punch and Thunder Punch, and then have a counter for Aegislash from your 5 pokemons left.

That's not true at all lol
The bulky dd spread for Char X is, I believe, picking up some traction lately, and it's an excellent set. It can find set up opportunities everywhere, and thanks to roost and some great key resistances like electric and fire, recovery on Zard X is great. Roost is a very valid option on Char-X as of now.
And the very same goes for Char-Y, it's really not too hard to just slap a keldeo on there and take care of tyranitar or run focus blast and then a tyranitar to combat the lati@s. Viable pokemon offer great synergy with char-y, removing each others checks for each other.
If you went to go see moveset analyses for the statistics, you wouldn't see eq+Focus blast Char-y often, because its really stupid. Roost is practically a mandatory move on Char-Y for a reason.
You may be right (for now) that a lot of Zard X don't run recovery, but with Zard Y, you're wrong.

I'm complementing char-y for his bulk, not for his speed. It's your loss if you don't want to care how bulky he is.

You're forgetting Staraptor too, and Char Y never run flying coverage, air slash is retarded. Tornadus-T can decide to be balls and run Hurricane as well.

I've only seen a handful of Char X carry Roost tbh, as for Zard Y, yes I have seen it, but only by sacrificing EQ or Focus Blast, and not Air Slash, I'm not talking about viability, because I agree with you, but I'm talking about the common used. But it doesn't matter really ...

Wallbreakers aren't just used for walls. If they were, they would be completely useless against HO, which they aren't.
Nothing needs bulk to go against Chansey, not helping your argument.
And you would want bulk against walls because you still want to be able to switch in to their weak attacks. Mega Medicham can't even do this several times. You're putting a huge burden on your teammates if you need to bring him in safely every time you want to wallbreak.

That's true, but even on HO, 100 base speed tier is capable of outspeeding a good amount of stuff, at least have some speed ties.

If I'm switching on a wall, most of walls can really do nothing, besides Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball, sometimes Seismic Toss/Night Shade. But really that's about it. (Unless I'm forgetting about something)

No set-up moves: I don't see why would you need set-up moves with such raw power, Mega mawile carries SD because it horribly depends on priority, but hey Char Y doesn't get set-up moves either, unless you count Roost, which really doesn't support your argument, Mega cham hits harder than Char Y and both of them do not have set-up moves.
[/quote]
Char-Y actually gets both Flame charge and Tailwind, which are pretty cool options. Mega Cham, on the other hand, why wouldn't you want set up moves? If you didn't have 4MSS and medicham got access to SD, despite its insane power, people would use it. Do you want to know why?
Because it doesn't matter how strong you are, if you can pump your power levels even higher it will be better.

The only reason I would use SD is to power up my priority or to safely kill pokemons without relying on HJK much. But I don't have it, so don't use priority, and just rely on HJK more.

Char y doesn't need priority because he has decent bulk and recovery to compensate for his sub-par base speed. Mega Medicham has nothing.
And I've already addressed the priority in wallbreaking argument:

Well gee, easier said than done. Contrary to popular belief, not all teams carry chansey, or something that mega medicham can safely mega evolve on. In fact, if you're facing HO, it's likely that you'll never even get to mega evolve because your super low speed and low defenses will probably just kill you before you can do anything. I do in fact know a lot of things about mega pokemons, and I do realize that mega evolving on something faster than you isn't the best idea. But why is that? Maybe it's because you're piss frail and slow as hell before you mega evolve. It's much easier said than done to safely get mega cham in and mega evolve him while actually keeping him alive.

You don't always have to Mega evolve on a wall or a slower pokemon in general, Mega evolve on a pokemon like Terrakion, for example, he'll most likely switch, and if not, EQ would do a maximum of 56% saying he has EQ in the first place (A lot run Quick Attack over it), but a smart player would mega evolve on a move he knows he's locked into it and he resists it, like Stone Edge.

CB terrakion atleast has a fantastic speed tier, some actual bulk, and free moveslots to work with.
And the only real argument I still see for mega cham is raw power.
Oh, to all those people who keep screaming at me about Mega Medicham's speed:
100 base speed is all right, but what makes it bad on mega medicham is the fact that it has no good priority or bulk to compensate for its sub-par speed. It's so frail that it relies on a mediocre 100 base speed to combat offensive threats, which it simply cannot do.
If any experienced Mega Medicham user can pull up a valid strength that mega medicham has outside of raw power, I'd be delighted to know.[/quote]

Replies in bold.

 

[Giometry]

No set-up moves: I don't see why would you need set-up moves with such raw power, Mega mawile carries SD because it horribly depends on priority, but hey Char Y doesn't get set-up moves either, unless you count Roost, which really doesn't support your argument, Mega cham hits harder than Char Y and both of them do not have set-up moves.

Char-Y actually gets both Flame charge and Tailwind, which are pretty cool options. Mega Cham, on the other hand, why wouldn't you want set up moves? If you didn't have 4MSS and medicham got access to SD, despite its insane power, people would use it. Do you want to know why?
Because it doesn't matter how strong you are, if you can pump your power levels even higher it will be better.

The only reason I would use SD is to power up my priority or to safely kill pokemons without relying on HJK much. But I don't have it, so don't use priority, and just rely on HJK more.

Char y doesn't need priority because he has decent bulk and recovery to compensate for his sub-par base speed. Mega Medicham has nothing.
And I've already addressed the priority in wallbreaking argument:

Well gee, easier said than done. Contrary to popular belief, not all teams carry chansey, or something that mega medicham can safely mega evolve on. In fact, if you're facing HO, it's likely that you'll never even get to mega evolve because your super low speed and low defenses will probably just kill you before you can do anything. I do in fact know a lot of things about mega pokemons, and I do realize that mega evolving on something faster than you isn't the best idea. But why is that? Maybe it's because you're piss frail and slow as hell before you mega evolve. It's much easier said than done to safely get mega cham in and mega evolve him while actually keeping him alive.

You don't always have to Mega evolve on a wall or a slower pokemon in general, Mega evolve on a pokemon like Terrakion, for example, he'll most likely switch, and if not, EQ would do a maximum of 56% saying he has EQ in the first place (A lot run Quick Attack over it), but a smart player would mega evolve on a move he knows he's locked into it and he resists it, like Stone Edge.

CB terrakion atleast has a fantastic speed tier, some actual bulk, and free moveslots to work with.
And the only real argument I still see for mega cham is raw power.
Oh, to all those people who keep screaming at me about Mega Medicham's speed:
100 base speed is all right, but what makes it bad on mega medicham is the fact that it has no good priority or bulk to compensate for its sub-par speed. It's so frail that it relies on a mediocre 100 base speed to combat offensive threats, which it simply cannot do.
If any experienced Mega Medicham user can pull up a valid strength that mega medicham has outside of raw power, I'd be delighted to know.[/quote]

Replies in bold.[/quote]
You seem to be putting way too much emphasis on specific examples (terrakion, chansey examples) whilst ignoring his glaring faults. You also seem to say that any decent player can make it work against HO when in all honesty, Any good HO team has at least one or 2 megacham counters/checks without even trying. Mega Cham has 4MSS, pitiful bulk, no priority (this is relevant specifically because of his pitiful bulk and mediocre speed), and a horrible typing with few resistances ( especially ones used in OU) giving it very few switch in opportunities or mega evolving opportunities. Circular logic wins no arguments.

 

[Impy]

Mega Manectric is simply amazing in this metagame (its original rank is over-exaggerated) to be honest: I am nominating this thing for A-, yes A-:

Mega Manectric sits at an amazing speed tier, hits pretty hard, has Intimidate to let teammates like SD Talonflame to set up with ease, and has amazing coverage. Its access to Volt Switch makes it easily shift the momentum to your favor since it will not be outpaced. It even checks Mega Gyarados and Mega Pinsir while it negates any boosts gotten from a Charizard X planning to sweep your team. In fact, Mega Manectric can switch in directly into physical inclined sweepers like into Mega Tyranitar's Crunch. It can OHKO a good portion of the offensive and defensive meta too with Overheat and Hidden Power [Ice]. Combine with the fact that it has non-crap physical bulk to start with, it can really do a lot of work. Honestly, Mega Manectric does its job in every match, supports the team in many ways, and can easily clear the way for fellow sweepers that are checked easily, and will never disappoint. Easy A- Rank.

And also, seeing Suicune and Tornadus-T in B: these need to move to B+. They are really good currently.

Absolutely, Mega-Mane is waaaaaaaaaay underrated. I feel like it could benefit from a wider movepool just to have more options and be a more surprising pokemon, but it honestly gets just about everything it needs. It's a weird hodge podge of not really exciting features that, combined, make for a surprisingly tricky little pivot. The only question you have to ask yourself is if you want to dedicate your mega slot to him.

 

[Frozen Arrow]

Here are my personal opinions on the following pokemon:

Hippowdon B+ to A-
Hippowdon brings great physical bulk and slack off allowing it great recovery. It has access to stealth rocks for Hazards, Roar for removing Pesky set-up pokemon and also brings sand stream to the battle. It has it's threats yes, but most threats are frail and easily counterable. Because of the diversity in it's move pool it can be unpredictable and that is normally a good thing.

Togekiss B+ to B
From experience Togekiss only really succeeds at paraflinch, and that can be very luck based on whether it works out in your favour or not. It can use other tactics although I find it does not have the bulk or speed to stay alive very along when it is attempting to setup/Sweep.

Ferrothorn B+ to B/B-
Ferrothorn just doesn't seem like a good pokemon this generation, unfortunately this gen seems to have a lot more pokemon running fire moves because of the larger quantity of steel type pokemon in OU this gen. Ferrothorn is also lacking a decent HP recovering move, it has leech seed but that is nowhere near effective enough. Ferrothorn does still have a use as it can lay rocks and spikes down, and can also be used as a physical pivot with rocky helmet to deal a nice amount of contact damage.

Sylveon B to B+
Sylveon is very useful because it is a bulky cleric with a powerful back up attack. the strong fairy attack can hit quite hard, especially if sylveon is running calm mind. I would go as far as saying it is possibly the best cleric in the game at present due to typing and strong Special attack for backup. It also has an immunity to dragon moves which is incredibly useful with all the dragon types running around OU.

Starmie B to B-
Starmie in my opinion has just become a shadow of greninja, although it has some key difference with move pool I feel that starmie just doesn't have enough bulk/speed now as there is seemingly a better pokemon for each thing starmie does. for Example Rapid spin on starmie is OK but starmie is unlikely to last more than 2 hits, therefore there are bulkier Spinners that are more common and probably better suited for teams. Starmie does have recover but without the bulk it is somewhat pointless, and because greninja is faster and has a better ability starmie is no longer needed as much of a sweeper unless a player is looking for a specific move set that only starmie can deliver.

Feel free to point out anything or disagree, these are just my opinions :)

 

[Halcyon.]

Alright, I'll come out and say it. No I don't think Mega Medicham should rise to A-. I don't even think it really deserves B+ honestly.

It's not that Mega Medicham is necessarily a bad Pokemon, it's just that you're using your Mega Pokemon as a wall breaker when there are a plethora of even more effective wall breakers that 1. Don't take up a Mega slot or 2. Do it better than Medicham can. I mean, what exactly are you pairing this Pokemon with that makes it such an amazing wall breaker anyway? Breaking Skarm for Mega Pinsir? Landorus-T for Mega Zard X? Quagsire for Mega Ttar? No you can't do that because you used your Mega slot up already. Garchomp doesn't really need a wall breaker (it already is one), Lucario does, but you make yourself incredibly weak to Talon/Pinsir with that core. From my experience with Mega Medicham, it's no better than Mega Heracross. In fact, I would say it's actually worse, since it can't take hits nearly as well, has an unfortunate weakness to Ghost (Aegislash LOVES switching into this thing), and doesn't have to rely on prediction as much because it's main STAB move doesn't have the ability to deal 50% recoil if your opponent switches in their Ghost type.

I also hate the idea that "with Lucarionite gone, Mega Medicam will definitely rise in usage!" This is flawed because I don't think they fulfill the same role at all. Mega Lucario may have been a wall breaker, but if anything, this was an added bonus that came with being the best sweeper in the tier. The same can be said of Mega Pinsir. If it can't sweep your opponent's team, you can be damn sure it will leave Rotom-W/Zapdos at a very low health and pave the way for a Talon sweep (or whatever). For Mega Medicham, this is not the case. It can't sweep. It doesn't try to sweep. There's nothing wrong with not sweeping, but this tier is full of powerful wall breakers, and I don't see what separates Mega Medicham enough to warrant a rise to A-.

 

[Flan76]

Chansey--------->A+ Rank.
Chansey has ridiculous bulk that allows it to pass wishes easily, and has a wide support movepool. It walls all special attackers, aside from ones like Keldeo and mixed Deo-S. Chansey has equivalent physical bulk of 252/252+ bold Mew when its physical defense and HP are fully invested, making it a very formidable physical wall as well, being able to wall things like scarf garchomp and aegislash. Ofc, it can't do anything back to aegis, but it can set up wishes/softboileds on it. It's an exceptional cleric, and a staple on stall teams. All in all, I don't see why this thing isn't A+ rank.
Hippowdon------>A+ Rank.

Disregarding hippo's (CRIMINALLY) low usage thus far in XY, it is one of the best pokemon in​

the tier, and walls a very long list of things. A specially defensive set is probably the best for it this gen, as it allows it to wall Aegislash. This alone is huge for hippo, as it can take all of Aegis's Shadow Balls and retaliate back with EQ or using toxic on a predicted switch-in. The specially defensive set doesn't just wall Aegis, though; Scarf hydreigon, noivern Mega Manectric, Thundurus-I, Raikou, Magnezone, Mega Ampharos, alakazam, togekiss, and tornadus therian all get hard walled by a specially defensive set. It has great synergy with some other pokemon in the tier, like Latias and Keldeo. Reliable recovery is one of the things that make hippo so good; without slack off, it would be more or less garbage tbh. Slack off lets it stall out things that are toxiced in front of it, such as lando i, and is an absolutely amazing utility move in general. Alternatively, an old-school physically defensive set has as much merit as a specially defensive one, walling Talonflame, Mega Charizard X, Tyranitar, non-banded terrakion, mega mawile (to an extent), Infernape and landorus-therian. There are probably more pokemon that hippo can wall on both sides of the spectrum with the right EV spread, but that's all the pokes i can think of right now.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Chansey--------->A+ Rank.
Chansey has ridiculous bulk that allows it to pass wishes easily, and has a wide support movepool. It walls all special attackers, aside from ones like Keldeo and mixed Deo-S. Chansey has equivalent physical bulk of 252/252+ bold Mew when its physical defense and HP are fully invested, making it a very formidable physical wall as well, being able to wall things like scarf garchomp and aegislash. Ofc, it can't do anything back to aegis, but it can set up wishes/softboileds on it. It's an exceptional cleric, and a staple on stall teams. All in all, I don't see why this thing isn't A+ rank.
Hippowdon------>A+ Rank.

Disregarding hippo's (CRIMINALLY) low usage thus far in XY, it is one of the best pokemon in​

the tier, and walls a very long list of things. A specially defensive set is probably the best for it this gen, as it allows it to wall Aegislash. This alone is huge for hippo, as it can take all of Aegis's Shadow Balls and retaliate back with EQ or using toxic on a predicted switch-in. The specially defensive set doesn't just wall Aegis, though; Scarf hydreigon, noivern Mega Manectric, Thundurus-I, Raikou, Magnezone, Mega Ampharos, alakazam, togekiss, and tornadus therian all get hard walled by a specially defensive set. It has great synergy with some other pokemon in the tier, like Latias and Keldeo. Reliable recovery is one of the things that make hippo so good; without slack off, it would be more or less garbage tbh. Slack off lets it stall out things that are toxiced in front of it, such as lando i, and is an absolutely amazing utility move in general. Alternatively, an old-school physically defensive set has as much merit as a specially defensive one, walling Talonflame, Mega Charizard X, Tyranitar, non-banded terrakion, mega mawile (to an extent), Infernape and landorus-therian. There are probably more pokemon that hippo can wall on both sides of the spectrum with the right EV spread, but that's all the pokes i can think of right now.

I think you're overselling both of them just a little. Chansey's been a little overdiscussed, so if you want to know why I'm only for an A- rank, you'll have to read previous posts. Hippowdon similarly is a great pokemon, but of the list you provided, the only ones I care about are Aegislash, Thundurus, Togekiss, and maybe Alakazam. X and Y came out like, 6 months ago. So everybody already knows how they'll deal with him, and beating him 1 v 1 isn't a big deal. Hippowdon is clearly worth its B+ spot, but A+? No way

 

[Shroomisaur]

Ok, my opinions on the few biggest changes I'd like to see:

Hippowdon -> A-. I've already argued for this multiple times, just like many other posters have, and Hippo's deserved this rank for a long while now. JUSTICE FOR HIPPO!

Chansey -> A-. Chansey far outclasses Blissey this generation, due to its enormous bulk. It can eat attacks that no other Pokemon can, and even many non-STAB Superpowers fail to 2HKO Chansey, whereas Blissey would fall. It can stall a huge list of threats to death single-handedly, and provide tons of support to the team with healing or status. It's a stall-team staple for a reason.

Mega Manectric -> B+. I've long felt that Mega Manectric is the most underrated Mega Evolution, and it still is. Unlike most of these other Megas, its power is merely "good". What sets Manectric apart is incredible speed and the utility of Intimidate+Volt Switch, making it a hugely useful revenge killer, cleaner, and pivot at the same time. It honestly performs so much better in practice than it looks on paper - it certainly deserves a B+ ranking. Mediocre bulk and an inability to break most special walls (Chansey, Megasaur, SpD Hippo, Zapdos, etc) hold it back from going any higher than B+ however.

Mega Heracross -> B+. Another underrated Mega Evolution, due to its poor speed. However, Mega Heracross hits like an absolute truck and is an amazing wallbreaker, capable of destroying some of the most obnoxious defensive Pokemon in the game, such as Deo-D+Bisharp, or breaking Chansey+Skarm cores. Unlike a lot of others (see below) it also has solid bulk which helps it find switch-in opportunities.

Mega Medicham and Gardevoir: These two are very different, yet very similar. They reside in the same speed tier, and both reach base 100 after Mega Evolution, which many people wrote off as "too slow", but it's not really that bad. Both of them pack incredible power, making them very difficult to switch into, and capable of smashing through many defensive teams. Unfortunately Megacham has mediocre defenses and a poor defensive typing, while Mega Gardevoir has horrible physical defense leaving it very vulnerable to priority. I can see the arguments for A-, but both have enough drawbacks to remain B+ in my opinion.

Togekiss -> B. It's just not on the same level as other B+ ranked Pokemon. It's rather slow and not as threatening as other Pokemon in the B+ tier, yet common weaknesses really hurt it defensively. It isn't as effective at providing support either. Paraflinch hax is fun, but overall Togekiss is probably fit for B.

Blissey: I agree with Jukain's earlier post that Blissey is outclassed by Chansey, although I'm not exactly sure where it should end up if it's going to drop. C seems a little drastic, even if it is outclassed.

 

[GroovyGator]

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outclassed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

With that being said, I find B-/B rank fitting for Blissey.

 

[Srn]

If it loses to something because of a coverage move it runs (loses to gyarados without Thunderpunch, loses to Aegislash without Fire Punch, Loses to Gliscor/Lando-T without Ice Punch) then that's called 4MSS buddy.

That's not what I meant, run Ice Punch and Thunder Punch, and then have a counter for Aegislash from your 5 pokemons left.

That still doesn't fix the fact that Aegislash is a totally free switch-in to Mega medicham now.

That's not true at all lol
The bulky dd spread for Char X is, I believe, picking up some traction lately, and it's an excellent set. It can find set up opportunities everywhere, and thanks to roost and some great key resistances like electric and fire, recovery on Zard X is great. Roost is a very valid option on Char-X as of now.
And the very same goes for Char-Y, it's really not too hard to just slap a keldeo on there and take care of tyranitar or run focus blast and then a tyranitar to combat the lati@s. Viable pokemon offer great synergy with char-y, removing each others checks for each other.
If you went to go see moveset analyses for the statistics, you wouldn't see eq+Focus blast Char-y often, because its really stupid. Roost is practically a mandatory move on Char-Y for a reason.
You may be right (for now) that a lot of Zard X don't run recovery, but with Zard Y, you're wrong.

I'm complementing char-y for his bulk, not for his speed. It's your loss if you don't want to care how bulky he is.

You're forgetting Staraptor too, and Char Y never run flying coverage, air slash is retarded. Tornadus-T can decide to be balls and run Hurricane as well.

I've only seen a handful of Char X carry Roost tbh, as for Zard Y, yes I have seen it, but only by sacrificing EQ or Focus Blast, and not Air Slash, I'm not talking about viability, because I agree with you, but I'm talking about the common used. But it doesn't matter really ...

If you're seeing Char-Y's with Fire Blast / Solarbeam / Roost / Air Slash, you must be really damn low on the ladder.
Saying recovery on bulky pokemon like the charizards "doesn't matter really ..." is so wrong.
That's literally saying if something like tyranitar got Recover it wouldn't matter that much.

Wallbreakers aren't just used for walls. If they were, they would be completely useless against HO, which they aren't.
Nothing needs bulk to go against Chansey, not helping your argument.
And you would want bulk against walls because you still want to be able to switch in to their weak attacks. Mega Medicham can't even do this several times. You're putting a huge burden on your teammates if you need to bring him in safely every time you want to wallbreak.

That's true, but even on HO, 100 base speed tier is capable of outspeeding a good amount of stuff, at least have some speed ties.

If I'm switching on a wall, most of walls can really do nothing, besides Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball, sometimes Seismic Toss/Night Shade. But really that's about it. (Unless I'm forgetting about something)

The things that you can actually outspeed on HO, you can't switch in to. So you essentially have to bring in Medicham after a kill on a HO pokemon that cannot hurt you for to be of any use. Remember, you have to deal with 80 base speed for a turn too, and BP is incredibly weak.

By the strictest definition, a wall is something that fails to deal significant damage to threats, so again, by the strictest definition, everything can switch into a wall. Ferrothorn would be considered a tank because its Gyro Ball and Power Whip can actually hurt somethings.
And if you want to switch into a tank? (because you won't see a wall unless its Stall, which all wallbreakers have decent match-ups against.)

Well, it's safe to say you sorely overestimate Mega Medicham's bulk if you think it can safely switch in on anything:

0 SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Medicham: 109-130 (41.7 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Medicham: 124-147 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Medicham: 142-168 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 169-201 (64.7 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 148-175 (56.7 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 136-162 (52.1 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

It really can't switch in on ANYTHING RELEVANT that doesn't use night shade/seismic toss.

Char-Y actually gets both Flame charge and Tailwind, which are pretty cool options. Mega Cham, on the other hand, why wouldn't you want set up moves? If you didn't have 4MSS and medicham got access to SD, despite its insane power, people would use it. Do you want to know why?
Because it doesn't matter how strong you are, if you can pump your power levels even higher it will be better.

The only reason I would use SD is to power up my priority or to safely kill pokemons without relying on HJK much. But I don't have it, so don't use priority, and just rely on HJK more.

According to your logic, people had no reason to run set-up moves on Mega Lucario. All they had to do was rely on CC more. >_>

Char y doesn't need priority because he has decent bulk and recovery to compensate for his sub-par base speed. Mega Medicham has nothing.
And I've already addressed the priority in wallbreaking argument:

Well gee, easier said than done. Contrary to popular belief, not all teams carry chansey, or something that mega medicham can safely mega evolve on. In fact, if you're facing HO, it's likely that you'll never even get to mega evolve because your super low speed and low defenses will probably just kill you before you can do anything. I do in fact know a lot of things about mega pokemons, and I do realize that mega evolving on something faster than you isn't the best idea. But why is that? Maybe it's because you're piss frail and slow as hell before you mega evolve. It's much easier said than done to safely get mega cham in and mega evolve him while actually keeping him alive.

You don't always have to Mega evolve on a wall or a slower pokemon in general, Mega evolve on a pokemon like Terrakion, for example, he'll most likely switch, and if not, EQ would do a maximum of 56% saying he has EQ in the first place (A lot run Quick Attack over it), but a smart player would mega evolve on a move he knows he's locked into it and he resists it, like Stone Edge.

You're really emphasizing scenarios that are highly specific and rarely actually occur. What common choiced moves do you even resist, or can safely come into?
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 118-140 (45.2 - 53.6%) -- 40.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 157-186 (60.1 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

This is also not to mention that choice scarf has become a worse item overall, with access to Deo-S, prankster T-waves, and powerful priority. The most common choice items on the higher end of the ladder are specs or band, and with that pitiful bulk, you can't even take resisted hits.

Thus, a smart player would be forced to use slow pivots and sack pokemon just to bring medicham in safely, only to take out one pokemon and then have your teammates take more hits because you want to keep medicham alive. That's not really worth it.

And if you think people run QA over EQ on terrakion, you must be really damn low on the ladder.
EQ is completely mandatory for aegislash now. You have a free slot, and you could use QA there, but over EQ? That's retarded.

CB terrakion atleast has a fantastic speed tier, some actual bulk, and free moveslots to work with.
And the only real argument I still see for mega cham is raw power.
Oh, to all those people who keep screaming at me about Mega Medicham's speed:
100 base speed is all right, but what makes it bad on mega medicham is the fact that it has no good priority or bulk to compensate for its sub-par speed. It's so frail that it relies on a mediocre 100 base speed to combat offensive threats, which it simply cannot do.
If any experienced Mega Medicham user can pull up a valid strength that mega medicham has outside of raw power, I'd be delighted to know.

On top of this, since it has no bulk at all, it pressures it teammates to take hits for it and keep it alive. Because if you don't want to lose your mega medicham, you better have a solid switch in that come in repeatedly on moves like Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump, Life orb Landorus Earth Power, Mega Pinsir Aerilate Return, and the myriad of other strong moves that you lose to. This effectively makes Medicham's teammates walls with little offensive presence, and discounts Mega Medicham any place on a balanced or HO team. It's just soo strong but soo bad.

Ok, my opinions on the few biggest changes I'd like to see:

Hippowdon -> A-. I've already argued for this multiple times, just like many other posters have, and Hippo's deserved this rank for a long while now. JUSTICE FOR HIPPO!

Dear god please, get this thing to A- or even A already.

Chansey -> A-. Chansey far outclasses Blissey this generation, due to its enormous bulk. It can eat attacks that no other Pokemon can, and even many non-STAB Superpowers fail to 2HKO Chansey, whereas Blissey would fall. It can stall a huge list of threats to death single-handedly, and provide tons of support to the team with healing or status. It's a stall-team staple for a reason.

I'm sorta iffy on this one because its such set up fodder to some pokemon. It handles a big list of threats, but it can't really handle anything that can set up and has reliable recovery. I personally don't agree just because of how easy it is to deal with and come in on.

Mega Manectric -> B+. I've long felt that Mega Manectric is the most underrated Mega Evolution, and it still is. Unlike most of these other Megas, its power is merely "good". What sets Manectric apart is incredible speed and the utility of Intimidate+Volt Switch, making it a hugely useful revenge killer, cleaner, and pivot at the same time. It honestly performs so much better in practice than it looks on paper - it certainly deserves a B+ ranking. Mediocre bulk and an inability to break most special walls (Chansey, Megasaur, SpD Hippo, Zapdos, etc) hold it back from going any higher than B+ however.

Agreed. This guy has a perfect blend of good ability, great speed, pivoting move, and decent power. He makes a great pick for a mega and is very deceptive: just because his base stats are pretty low he takes you a long way. B+ material for sure.

Mega Heracross -> B+. Another underrated Mega Evolution, due to its poor speed. However, Mega Heracross hits like an absolute truck and is an amazing wallbreaker, capable of destroying some of the most obnoxious defensive Pokemon in the game, such as Deo-D+Bisharp, or breaking Chansey+Skarm cores. Unlike a lot of others (see below) it also has solid bulk which helps it find switch-in opportunities.

I'm not quite sure on this one, because his speed is a little iffy, but its true that he does possess some bulk and definitely has switch-in opportunities, so he should definitely be B+ as well.

Mega Medicham and Gardevoir: These two are very different, yet very similar. They reside in the same speed tier, and both reach base 100 after Mega Evolution, which many people wrote off as "too slow", but it's not really that bad. Both of them pack incredible power, making them very difficult to switch into, and capable of smashing through many defensive teams. Unfortunately Megacham has mediocre defenses and a poor defensive typing, while Mega Gardevoir has horrible physical defense leaving it very vulnerable to priority. I can see the arguments for A-, but both have enough drawbacks to remain B+ in my opinion.

I disagree with this one. Mega Cham has no real safe switch-in options, but Mega Gardevoir has a great sp. def stat and with trace from her pre-evo, can easily switch in on things like heatran. Her defensive typing also isn't too bad, giving her a quad resist to fighting and an immunity to dragon. They both suffer from 100 base speed and no good priority, but Mega Gardevoir has a much more spammable STAB (with no drawbacks, no immunities, and just two resistances) and a lot more switch-in opportunities, which definitely ranks her A- atleast.

Togekiss -> B. It's just not on the same level as other B+ ranked Pokemon. It's rather slow and not as threatening as other Pokemon in the B+ tier, yet common weaknesses really hurt it defensively. It isn't as effective at providing support either. Paraflinch hax is fun, but overall Togekiss is probably fit for B.

Blissey: I agree with Jukain's earlier post that Blissey is outclassed by Chansey, although I'm not exactly sure where it should end up if it's going to drop. C seems a little drastic, even if it is outclassed.

Yeah both of these guys aren't too great. Togekiss specifically was quite underwhelming, no matter what I tried.

 

[doughboy]

Alright, I'll come out and say it. No I don't think Mega Medicham should rise to A-. I don't even think it really deserves B+ honestly.

It's not that Mega Medicham is necessarily a bad Pokemon, it's just that you're using your Mega Pokemon as a wall breaker when there are a plethora of even more effective wall breakers that 1. Don't take up a Mega slot or 2. Do it better than Medicham can. I mean, what exactly are you pairing this Pokemon with that makes it such an amazing wall breaker anyway? Breaking Skarm for Mega Pinsir? Landorus-T for Mega Zard X? Quagsire for Mega Ttar? No you can't do that because you used your Mega slot up already. Garchomp doesn't really need a wall breaker (it already is one), Lucario does, but you make yourself incredibly weak to Talon/Pinsir with that core. From my experience with Mega Medicham, it's no better than Mega Heracross. In fact, I would say it's actually worse, since it can't take hits nearly as well, has an unfortunate weakness to Ghost (Aegislash LOVES switching into this thing), and doesn't have to rely on prediction as much because it's main STAB move doesn't have the ability to deal 50% recoil if your opponent switches in their Ghost type.

Outside of Kyurem-B and all out attacking Aegislash, can you please give the example wallbreakers you were thinking about that do not take up your Mega-Slot and can do it better than Mega-Medicham? The primary wallbreakers in the tier are all Mega-Evolutions: Mega Charizard Y, Mega-Garchomp, Mega Mawile, Mega-Heracross and of course Mega-Medicham. Using a Mega-Evolution is an attribute that Mega-Medicham shares with the majority of the wallbreakers in the tier.

Also for the point I underlined, there are plenty of good sweepers in the tier that don't rely on Mega-Evolution that can pair with Mega-Medicham. If you are really curious:

Bisharp: Medicham can remove bulky ground types with Ice Punch and Steel-types with Hi Jump Kick, while Bisharp deals with those pesky Ghost-types (even Aegislash) and Slowbro well. Also Medicham removes Mega-Venusaur that can take Knock Off's from bisharp
Tail Glow Manaphy: Medicham can bring in Mega-Venusaur trying to tank a Hi Jump Kick, only to be smashed by Zen Headbutt. Also destroys Chansey and Ferrothorn. Sets up on bro and Sableye
Landorus-I: Latias, Zapdos,Venusaur, Mandibuzz are all stops to Lando-I that can get murked by Medicham (first three attempt to tank HJK). Lando can lure Gengar in with Psychic and one shot Aegislash with Earth Power. Sheer Force Lando and Huge Power Medicham has significant fire power behind it to take down general tanks (ex. Rotom-W, AV users, Mega-Saur, etc.)
Dragonite: Medicham removes steel-types gloriously with HJK and takes down bulky ground types (espcially Lando-T) with Ice Punch or breaks them down with HJK. Dnite lures in Aegislash with boosted EQ's.
NP Thundurus-I: Removes Mega-Venusaur, Chansey, Tyranitar, and bulky Ground-types. Sets up on birds that attempt to revenge Medicham. Removes Slowbro and sets up on Sableye with priority NP (can't be Taunted).

All great sweepers that take advantage of Medicham's wallbreaking ability.

I agree with your second paragraph whole-heartedly though. well except for the last sentence :p basically Medicham can break Mega-Venusaur + Heatran + more which some wallbreakers struggle to do without specific conditions (ss for chomp) or giving advantage (charizard y buffing synthensis for Mega-Saur bite me in the ass one battle >.<)

 

[Eievui-Nymphia]

This is a calculation of how powerful is Mega Medicham
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 246-291 (58 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It's outspeed by Thundurus-I, MPinsir, Deoxys-S, Garchomp, Landorus-I, Landorus.T, Talonflame, Dragonite after 1-2 DD, Gengar, Greninja, MGyarados after +1/+2 DD, Keldeo, Latias, Latios, Gyarados after +1/+2 and Terrakion:

Of those, Thundurus-I can't OHKo with Thunderbolt (and will with Ice Punch), Deoxys-S is mainly a hazard set and is a bit rare, Garchomp needs Outrage of have a chance of OHKO (or a band for do the same), Landorus-T is OHKoed by ice Punch after Intimidate and EQ has a low chance of OHKO, Dragonite can't OHKO even at +1 unless gimmick Hurricane, Greninja with Surf/Scald doesn't OHKO (and High Jump Kick OHKO any of the common types), Keldeo requires Specs Hydro Pump to OHKO but HJK also does, Latias is a check, Latios risk Ice Punch (it can OHKO) and Gyarados is a good check. It resist Fighting/Rock, meaning Terrakion is not a problem.

About others, Alakazam is a check because his ability (if not, the "not very effective damage" from High Jump Kick is a decoration for him), imagine wh, MManectric OHKOes even with Intimidate (Thunderbot doesn't), Starmie can't OHKO it in one hit, Scolipede is not an attacker, Tornadus-T can't switch into anything (it defeats even with Air Slash), Absol has to be Mega to outspeed (and Sucker Punch is not the best idea) and Galvantula is a shaky check at best.

In other words, the majority of users of 100+ speed can OHKo MMedicham while MMedicham OHKO with one of the most common moves.

 

[MCBarrett]

Gonna go ahead and support Hippowdon for at least A Rank. Honestly I could easily see it one grouping higher at A+ but A is pretty fair as well.

Anyway, there are a few huge reasons why Hippowdon deserves a massive jump. First of all, it is the premier bulky Ground Type in the tier, as well as one of the best bulky stealth rock setters. I'd say only Heatran is on it's level as a defensive SR setter thanks to the amount of free switch ins their bulk / typing allow for each of them.

There are many reasons as to why Hippowdon outclasses Landorus-T as a bulky ground type (I'm only ok with its current rank since it is also one of the few great users of Choice Scarf, although looking back it probably is listed a bit high). It has reliable recovery in Slack Off, meaning it can reliably check a ton of threats repeatedly over the course of a match such as Talonflame, Pinsir, Aegislash w/o Toxic, Charizard-X, Mega Ttar and a slew of other physical attackers and setup sweepers. Also, Hippowdon is not set up bait like pivot Landorus-T can be against things such as Manaphy thanks to Whirlwind (sure you take some solid damage from Surf if you decide to stay in but that's the worst case scenario. Landorus-T's best case scenario is hitting Manaphy for an EQ and letting it setup to +3 or just straight switching out and risk having your switch-in predicted). Not only this but Hippo pairs much better with setup sweepers such as Charizard-X or Mega-Gyarados than say Landorus-T or even SR Ttar / SR Heatran because it can safely switch into the most common revenge killer / crippler in the tier in Thundurus multiple times and not fear its next move (barring the extremely rare Grass Knot). Plus, with the free switch-in and access to Whirlwind Hippo can get a chance to wear down Thundurus or another threat on the opposing team by forcing it to switch into Stealth Rocks multiple times. All of these things, plus the fact that sets such as Sub Toxic Aegi and Will-o-Wisp Zard-X are becoming so much more common, just to wear down walls such as Hippo for other Setup Sweepers later on in the match, show that Hippo is a threat to be taken seriously in this metagame.

 

[Srn]

Outside of Kyurem-B and all out attacking Aegislash, can you please give the example wallbreakers you were thinking about that do not take up your Mega-Slot and can do it better than Mega-Medicham? The primary wallbreakers in the tier are all Mega-Evolutions: Mega Charizard Y, Mega-Garchomp, Mega Mawile, Mega-Heracross and of course Mega-Medicham. Using a Mega-Evolution is an attribute that Mega-Medicham shares with the majority of the wallbreakers in the tier.

Also for the point I underlined, there are plenty of good sweepers in the tier that don't rely on Mega-Evolution that can pair with Mega-Medicham. If you are really curious:

Bisharp: Medicham can remove bulky ground types with Ice Punch and Steel-types with Hi Jump Kick, while Bisharp deals with those pesky Ghost-types (even Aegislash) and Slowbro well. Also Medicham removes Mega-Venusaur that can take Knock Off's from bisharp
Tail Glow Manaphy: Medicham can bring in Mega-Venusaur trying to tank a Hi Jump Kick, only to be smashed by Zen Headbutt. Also destroys Chansey and Ferrothorn. Sets up on bro and Sableye
Landorus-I: Latias, Zapdos,Venusaur, Mandibuzz are all stops to Lando-I that can get murked by Medicham (first three attempt to tank HJK). Lando can lure Gengar in with Psychic and one shot Aegislash with Earth Power. Sheer Force Lando and Huge Power Medicham has significant fire power behind it to take down general tanks (ex. Rotom-W, AV users, Mega-Saur, etc.)
Dragonite: Medicham removes steel-types gloriously with HJK and takes down bulky ground types (espcially Lando-T) with Ice Punch or breaks them down with HJK. Dnite lures in Aegislash with boosted EQ's.
NP Thundurus-I: Removes Mega-Venusaur, Chansey, Tyranitar, and bulky Ground-types. Sets up on birds that attempt to revenge Medicham. Removes Slowbro and sets up on Sableye with priority NP (can't be Taunted).

All great sweepers that take advantage of Medicham's wallbreaking ability.

I agree with your second paragraph whole-heartedly though. well except for the last sentence :p basically Medicham can break Mega-Venusaur + Heatran + more which some wallbreakers struggle to do without specific conditions (ss for chomp) or giving advantage (charizard y buffing synthensis for Mega-Saur bite me in the ass one battle >.<)

Medicham offers zero actual defensive synergy with Bisharp. While Bisharp makes a good partner to mega cham, he can be part of better cores.
Tail Glow manaphy: Nobody brings in Mega venusaur on mega medicham lol, mega medicham in no way lures mega venusaur.
As for Lando-i, he shouldn't even be worred about it since every lando-i should be carrying psychic if its special.
Nasty Plot thundy is also 2HKO'd by banded talon, so you don't really set up on him :/

These great sweepers do indeed benefit from medicham's power, but how is the rest of your team affected by medicham's bulk? He can take no hits at all, and forces teammates to take gigantic hits like Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump and Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return to stay alive and come back in.
He's really cool, but literally,
Kyu-B does everything he does just fine.
Kyu-B can remove bulky grounds and some steels with earth power, Destroys Mega VEnusuar (to whom mega medicham cannot switch into), beats Latias (speed doesn't matter here cuz apparently medicham beats latias here) Zapdos, VEnusaur, and Mandibuzz just fine (can't switch into any of them, even uninvested)
Kyu-b can remove some steels and wrecks bulky grounds too. You lose out on Tyranitar and Chansey (and some steels), along with a few others, but you get the ability to murk rotom-w too, which lets him pair with a lot more pokemon.
And, most importantly, his lack of bulk is not a burden to his team, in fact, his solid bulk lets him act as a decent check to things like greninja and manaphy.
Kyu-b also breaks Venutran and then some, and all this while not taking up a mega. Not bad huh.

The way you present this sorta bothers me too. You just list that it beats this, this, this, and this, which it will, because it's so damn strong. You don't consider that it can't switch into anything it even beats, you have to have VERY bulky slow pivots or sack a pokemon just to bring him in and actually do something, and considering he doesn't trap in anyway either and is easy to revenge kill, he can score a kill (which would be insignificant if the opponent is smart) and then is forced to switch because of how easy he is to revenge kill (or just kill in general). Most of the time, you won't be beating the things you listed with mega medicham, while with something like kyu-b, you can easily switch into several of the pokemon you're actually built to beat. A mamoswine can beat Bisharp and open up the path for Aegislash, but do you rely on Mamoswine to deal with Bisharp? Does Mamo lure in Heatran with its Icicle Crash (and then Heatran stays in to only be surprised by eq?) B/c that's what your arguments look like to me.
There's a lot more to wall-breaking than just beating your targets.

 

[doughboy]

The way you present this sorta bothers me too. You just list that it beats this, this, this, and this, which it will, because it's so damn strong. You don't consider that it can't switch into anything it even beats, you have to have VERY bulky slow pivots or sack a pokemon just to bring him in and actually do something, and considering he doesn't trap in anyway either and is easy to revenge kill, he can score a kill (which would be insignificant if the opponent is smart) and then is forced to switch because of how easy he is to revenge kill (or just kill in general). Most of the time, you won't be beating the things you listed with mega medicham, while with something like kyu-b, you can easily switch into several of the pokemon you're actually built to beat. A mamoswine can beat Bisharp and open up the path for Aegislash, but do you rely on Mamoswine to deal with Bisharp? Does Mamo lure in Heatran with its Icicle Crash (and then Heatran stays in to only be surprised by eq?) B/c that's what your arguments look like to me.
There's a lot more to wall-breaking than just beating your targets.

The other wallbreakers you and I listed, such as Kube, also allow for faster harder hitters to come in like Keldeo and Pinsir. So I don't know why you are singling out Mega-Medicham for this fault, especially since it is one of the fastest at base 100. Revenge killing is a problem for all wallbreakers

Lures isn't exactly the right term. A large majority of Pokemon out there can't tank a HJK and Medicham has enough speed to force them out. For most teams, the Pokemon I listed are the best shot to make sure that Medicham doesn't get a KO with HJK. So the opponent either a. leaves in their Pokemon for fodder b. has their check for an accompanying. Mega-Saur isn't a complete counter to Mega-Medicham, but for some teams it is the best chance they have to prevent a KO. And when you cleave at minimum 63% off of 0 hp / def Latias with HJK, can you really say it isn't getting the job done?

In the two questions you provided: 1. I never said that Medicham could be used to check threats like Mamoswine is with Bisharp. I don't disagree that it can't survive hits from faster pokemon or difficult to switch in. 2. The Heatran user always knows Mamoswine is carrying EQ, you can't say the same for Mega-Medicham with Zen Headbutt. when saur tries to check it. In addition, Mamoswine has a lot of options that can check its Icicle Crash outside of Heatran (ex. offensive water type), which is why Heatran is not switching into Mamoswine. Same goes for Earthquake and levitate users / flying-types neutral to ice. The options to check medicham's HJK are much, much smaller, which is why team's have to throw out there "best check" (like a Latias switching in on HJK) which Heatran isn't to Mamoswine.


Yeah, power isn't everything, but it is the most important. Out of all wallbreakers in the tier bar Charizard-Y, Medicham has the most raw power and speed behind it without having to maintain some field condition: eg. rocks for kube / charizard y and sand for chomp.

 

[TooMuchSugar]

I think Tornadus-T should go to B+ or even A-. When played right, this thing just never dies thanks to Regenerator. It's got a lot of good options outside of its admittedly disappointing stabs (heat wave, focus blast, superpower, knock off, u-turn, tailwind) that allow it to run a variety of different sets that are all threatening and can easily last for an entire battle. Assault Vest and Life Orb in particular are very nice.

 

[Aragorn the King]

I also nominate Goodra for B+/A. If you play around its low defense, it is a monstrous special wall with a lot of attacking options, as long as you never NOT use Assault Vest. Great switch-in against special attackers, and if comes to the worst Gooey can cripple whatever foolish physical mon kills it, opening up a revenge kill or a forced switch- and a free turn to set up. It's a great addition to any team that wants or needs a special tank. Barring Play Rough, all the special faeries see this thing and grumble.

I nominate Goodra for B+ or A rank
Goodra ridiculous special bulk and a Just enough sp.atk to do some Major damage
Here are some calcs using standard Goodra showing how bulky he is

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 102-120 (26.5 - 31.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO thats if it even runs dragon pulse and goodra take him out after 2 thunderbolts

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 78-94 (20.3 - 24.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO has a can 2 hit ko with dragon pulse

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 331-391 (86.1 - 101.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO he still has A 62% Chance to ohko with Fire Blast

He can take out 3 of the of the top tier threats more than half of S Rank. standard Goodra also has the sp.atk of standard latios and the special bulk of latias on his standard set but unlike latias and latios he has a crazy huge move pool and doesn't rely on HP for coverage. He is also very versatile with a niche ability gooey and another one Sap sipper that grants him an immunity to grass.
With his hidden ablity gooey no physical sweeper wants to touch him even if he has dragon dance (Im looking at you Mega Charizard X)

Goo-monster is currently B-, and so discussion has to wait. However, I do think it should go up.
------
Anyway, I want to defend Togekiss from dropping, like some people are proposing. It has a good defensive spread, good defensive typing, decent speed, and a great support movepool. It has wish, roost, defog, toxic, thunderwave, heal bell. Additionally, it has a great special attack, a great special movepool including Airslash, Fire Blast, Aura Sphere, Dazzling Gleam, grass knot, shadow ball, and Nasty plot. It can run an effective offensive set with roost or Nasty plot, while serving as a huge Bisharp/Mega Mawile lure, act as a defogging cleric, or use Paraflinch tactics to win. All three it can do effectively, and while each set has flaws, all three together make me think it deserves B+.

 

[Bravadorado]

It has a good defensive typing, good defensive typing, decent speed, and a great support movepool.

You forgot to mention good defensive typing lol.

But yeah I agree, it should stay.

 

[Aragorn the King]

You forgot to mention good defensive typing lol.

But yeah I agree, it should stay.

Oops. I meant defensive spread.

 

[Srn]

The other wallbreakers you and I listed, such as Kube, also allow for faster harder hitters to come in like Keldeo and Pinsir. So I don't know why you are singling out Mega-Medicham for this fault, especially since it is one of the fastest at base 100. Revenge killing is a problem for all wallbreakers

I'm singling out mega medicham because he is the wallbreaker with the absolute worst bulk. Sure, wallbreakers let faster pokemon revenge them unless you're a fast wallbreaker yourself. But the sheer extent to which mega medicham cannot take hits is really disappointing, so much that its revenge killed by everything. Even kyu-b isn't revenged by deo-s with superpower after sub/rocks damage. This bulk can be said by things like Mega Garchomp and Aegislash too, but Mega Medicham? Not in the slightest.
Yeah, revenge killing is a problem for wallbreakers, but sometimes they have the bulk to tank it anyway. Mega Medicham loses to every revenge killer ever.

Lures isn't exactly the right term. A large majority of Pokemon out there can't tank a HJK and Medicham has enough speed to force them out. For most teams, the Pokemon I listed are the best shot to make sure that Medicham doesn't get a KO with HJK. So the opponent either a. leaves in their Pokemon for fodder b. has their check for an accompanying. Mega-Saur isn't a complete counter to Mega-Medicham, but for some teams it is the best chance they have to prevent a KO. And when you cleave at minimum 63% off of 0 hp / def Latias with HJK, can you really say it isn't getting the job done?

Usually, a. is the best choice. Yes, when a. is the best choice a wallbreaker has done its job, I realize that. That's how it works for every wallbreaker. However, once something is killed, you can easily bring in any thing faster than it that can hit somewhat hard and threaten it out, possibly even set up on the switch predicting this. The loss of momentum sometimes isn't worth killing the pokemon. This isn't mentioning all the intense maneuvering you probably had to go through so that you got Mega Medi got in safely in the first place.
Also, you do take off 63% from latias, but you are now slower and are vulnerable to just die. A life Orb draco will straight up kill you, and if you do decide to switch, (you probably will) she can just roost right back up and take you on a couple more times. Sure, you're doing more than she's gaining, but how many more times can you get mega medicham in? How many more times will you be able to force latias to take the hit anyway?
It might not sound like too much, but his lack of any bulk seriously hinders it from switching into anything.
Also, this is HJK here. One of the most notorious moves ever lol. 90% is reliable, but misses are just really retarded. As tough as it already is to get into a position to spam moves, you now have to sport an extremely unreliable STAB to even play your role properly.
(Less important) Mega Latias also gets a great buff to def 90-->120, she will be able to check mega medi even better.

In the two questions you provided: 1. I never said that Medicham could be used to check threats like Mamoswine is with Bisharp. I don't disagree that it can't survive hits from faster pokemon or difficult to switch in. 2. The Heatran user always knows Mamoswine is carrying EQ, you can't say the same for Mega-Medicham with Zen Headbutt. when saur tries to check it. In addition, Mamoswine has a lot of options that can check its Icicle Crash outside of Heatran (ex. offensive water type), which is why Heatran is not switching into Mamoswine. Same goes for Earthquake and levitate users / flying-types neutral to ice. The options to check medicham's HJK are much, much smaller, which is why team's have to throw out there "best check" (like a Latias switching in on HJK) which Heatran isn't to Mamoswine.

I think you took my first question a little too literally lol. I just meant in a purely hypothetical sense. Yes, Mamoswine beats bisharp with eq, but can Mamoswine be counted on to deal with bisharp in general? Can it safely switch into its target and then proceed to kill it? This is important because to me, it seemed like mega medicham could just freely come in and take care of the mentioned targets, and it can't. It needs heavy pivot support to get it in safely and soak up all the powerful hits it attracts. That or you have to sack a mon every time you want it to come in, and you need to sack your teammate to a pokemon that's slower than Mega medicham for it coming in safely to even mean anything.

As for 2, I think its a fairly safe assumption that all mega medicham carry a psychic move, whether it is zen headbutt or psycho cut.
This is because you would get walled by mega venusaur otherwise, no matter what coverage you get, a "wallbreaker" being "walled" by the most common one is pretty dumb when you have options to get past it.
Secondly, psychic stab is pretty mandatory because you really want to hit those ghosts trying to act cheeky and avoid HJK, like gengar or sableye :P
It's just nice to have psychic STAB to hit things that try to resist HJK, like poison and fairy, so that the only type that resists both is psychic. Without psychic STAB, something like Mega Venusaur or even defensive Sylveon become solid answers that you could've otherwise broken.
As for Sylveon:
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 129-152 (32.7 - 38.5%) -- 4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 138-164 (35 - 41.6%) -- 78.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
BUT
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 205-243 (52 - 61.6%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Sylveon isn't too rare, and it's definitely viable (it can brag about being the only true counter to every Kyu-B set for example). He also carries protect if you want to try and muscle through after some prior damage, but if you carry psychic STAB you have no problem.
That's a great reason why it should be, if it isn't already, mandatory.

Yeah, power isn't everything, but it is the most important. Out of all wallbreakers in the tier bar Charizard-Y, Medicham has the most raw power and speed behind it without having to maintain some field condition: eg. rocks for kube / charizard y and sand for chomp.

Medicham undoubtedly has the most raw power, and that's what even keeps it at B+ right now. But it has a different field condition to deal with: survival. Yes, I'm beating the crap out of the horse, I know. But this is basically mega medicham's biggest flaw. Not being able to come in in the first place is a pretty big deal. Who cares if you resist rocks, when you die to (insert any strong attack here) it doesn't really matter.
Chomp doesn't need sand, 170 attack goes a long way. It's just better with sand, it doesn't need it maintained.
Rocks are fairly necessary to keep off the field, I can agree, but its a lot easier to do that now.
Definitely easier to keep rocks off the field than getting medicham even in safely in the first place.

Also, I'd like to bring up gardevoir as a "contestant" to take the title of best wallbreaker with no field condition necessary.
Mega Gardevoir already loses in power, don't worry, it's obvious. Mega Cham is just that strong.
But mega gardevoir's STAB, the main move its "spamming" is pixilate hyper voice, (which hits 117 iirc)
On top of only being 13 points behind in power, it boasts 100 accuracy and just reliability.
Fairy only has two resistances, one of which is fairly easy to deal with and the other of which gets annihilated by your other STAB. All you really need is focus blast for Steels and then shadow ball for aegislash, and we're good to go. She suffers from no 4MSS or lack of (special) bulk, and she's just a lot more reliable overall.

There's a good reason she's been used twice (I think, but she's definitely been used once atleast) in the SPL, and mega medicham has recieved zero usage. For him to rise to the ranks of pokemon like clefable and conkeldurr, who've received ample usage in SPL (for good reason) it just seems out of place and wrong. He deserves to stay at B+[/quote][/quote]

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

There's a good reason she's been used twice (I think, but she's definitely been used once atleast) in the SPL, and mega medicham has recieved zero usage. For him to rise to the ranks of pokemon like clefable and conkeldurr, who've received ample usage in SPL (for good reason) it just seems out of place and wrong. He deserves to stay at B+

Medicham has been used twice in SPL, Gardevoir six.

 

[Srn]

Medicham has been used twice in SPL, Gardevoir six.

ah, thank you for clearing that up.