XY UU Beta Discussion (Read post #32)

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How is it not? Do OU pokemon not get demoted to UU when they're barely being used in OU?
They do, but Pokemon banned from UU are not sent to OU, they're sent to BL, which is essentially a list of Pokemon banned from UU for power but not used enough to be OU. A Pokemon could be absolutely awful in OU and still be banned from UU if was deemed too strong in the latter tier.
 
They do, but Pokemon banned from UU are not sent to OU, they're sent to BL, which is essentially a list of Pokemon banned from UU for power but not used enough to be OU. A Pokemon could be absolutely awful in OU and still be banned from UU if was deemed too strong in the latter tier.
Ah, okay. My bad. Thanks for correcting me.
 
How is it not? Do OU pokemon not get demoted to UU when they're barely being used in OU?
It's not really dependent on their tiering status because they'll end up in BL (OU) whether they're good enough for it or not if they're OP in UU.

Anyway, this was more relevant before the Heracronite ban, but I've been using this set to some success:

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Hawlucha @ Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sky Attack
- Acrobatics
- High Jump Kick

Hawlucha is a really fun Pokemon to use right now. Its fast Speed lets it come in after something gets killed and fire off a powerful Sky Attack without much worry. Then, the Unburden boost kicks in and allows Hawlucha to beat every relevant Choice Scarf Pokemon while also boosting the power of Acrobatics to a respectable 110. However, I find Hawlucha to be somewhat difficult to use, because you absolutely need everything that can take a hit out of the field before sending it in, since the Unburden boost only occurs once, and if you switch out, Hawlucha loses the Speed boost. Its bulk is also pretty bad, making it relatively easy to revenge kill with bulky tanks. Because of this, it's useful to have Pokemon that can deal with the likes of Slowbro and Doublade, such as Mega Ampharos and Escavalier. Also, it's pretty difficult to get a Swords Dance off unless you know for sure the opponent is going to switch or go for a non-attacking move (usually doesn't happen, but something like Toxic?). This was more easier when Mega Heracross was still in the tier, as Hawlucha could switch into any of its attacks granted it doesn't get a crit and SR isn't on the field, and then go for the SD on the switch, but it's still manageable with Mega Gardevoir and Mega Medicham still being found on every corner. Hawlucha isn't the best late-game sweepers out there and needs support and proper prediction to be used effectively, but it's still a fun Pokemon to use and is very rewarding if used right.

Also, I agree with all the bans that happened, especially with Deoxys-S and Heracronite, although I'm a bit unsure on Thundurus-T but I can see where it's coming from.
 
Although I think most of those guys are fine in UU, this new approach of swinging around the ban hammer freely during beta is really interesting. You may not agree with the bans themselves, but this does let us see different versions of UU and gives us a taste of what these guys' effects on UU are.
 
It's not really dependent on their tiering status because they'll end up in BL (OU) whether they're good enough for it or not if they're OP in UU.

Anyway, this was more relevant before the Heracronite ban, but I've been using this set to some success:

701.png

Hawlucha @ Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sky Attack
- Acrobatics
- High Jump Kick

Hawlucha is a really fun Pokemon to use right now. Its fast Speed lets it come in after something gets killed and fire off a powerful Sky Attack without much worry. Then, the Unburden boost kicks in and allows Hawlucha to beat every relevant Choice Scarf Pokemon while also boosting the power of Acrobatics to a respectable 110. However, I find Hawlucha to be somewhat difficult to use, because you absolutely need everything that can take a hit out of the field before sending it in, since the Unburden boost only occurs once, and if you switch out, Hawlucha loses the Speed boost. Its bulk is also pretty bad, making it relatively easy to revenge kill with bulky tanks. Because of this, it's useful to have Pokemon that can deal with the likes of Slowbro and Doublade, such as Mega Ampharos and Escavalier. Also, it's pretty difficult to get a Swords Dance off unless you know for sure the opponent is going to switch or go for a non-attacking move (usually doesn't happen, but something like Toxic?). This was more easier when Mega Heracross was still in the tier, as Hawlucha could switch into any of its attacks granted it doesn't get a crit and SR isn't on the field, and then go for the SD on the switch, but it's still manageable with Mega Gardevoir and Mega Medicham still being found on every corner. Hawlucha isn't the best late-game sweepers out there and needs support and proper prediction to be used effectively, but it's still a fun Pokemon to use and is very rewarding if used right.

Also, I agree with all the bans that happened, especially with Deoxys-S and Heracronite, although I'm a bit unsure on Thundurus-T but I can see where it's coming from.
That's an interesting set! I wonder how Weakness Policy would work with Hawlucha. I've been using a Sitrus Berry set in UU:

Hawlucha @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance
- U-turn/Rock Slide
- High Jump Kick

The berry helps Hawlucha to stay a little while longer than on most sets using Unburden (after the Sitrus Berry is used) and High Jump Kick. U-Turn allows Hawlucha to get some damage while switching out and keep momentum, but is best used before the Unburden boost or as a last hurrah of sorts. Rock Slide provides extra coverage without forcing you to switch out and is probably a better option than U-Turn, but U-turn can be very helpful, especially if your opponent sends out something that is a bad matchup against Hawlucha or something that is weak to U-turn.

Limber sets are also viable as well:
Hawlucha @ Leftovers
Ability: Limber
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Hone Claws
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
Okay, maybe a Hone Claws set is not the best, but it works, especially with Hawlucha's many powerful/useful but inaccurate moves (HJK, Stone Miss, Flying Press, Sky Attack, maybe Bounce). HJK is the main STAB of course, while Stone Edge and U-turn add coverage and momentum. Limber is a great help to Hawlucha since it likes to take advantage of its high speed and is useful if your team lacks an electric or ground type.

Hawlucha is a fun, albeit tricky Pokemon to use and is a threat to look out for in the metagame. Its attack seems average, but after a boost it reaches great heights. It is also one of the few Pokemon that actually benefits from Knock Off, which is extremely common in the metagame with Bisharp and Machamp.
 
Not sure about the deoxys-S ban. I think it and defence are another case of pokemon that are a little too good for UU but have a hard time doing their job reliably in OU. Just like kyurem.
It's probably already been stated quite a lot, but the tiers do not affect eachothers. We do not ban something from one tier, because it fits better into another tier. We simply remove a broken element, and let it stay in the middleground BL/BL2/BL3 banlists.

Also, Deo-S is highly effective in OU, so don't worry about that.
 
As a user who has made it to the top of the UU ladder multiple times on multiple accounts using multiple styles without using any of the Bans, except of Mega heracross(which i would like an explanation for, but that doesnt seem like it's going to happen any time soon.) I can still say that this is a very fun and balanced metagame at the moment. Bisharp can be a pain but eh we're gonna have those no matter what
 
I didn't think Heracronite would be banned. I thought with Infiltrator Crobat, Staraptor, stuff like that would poo all over Hera. Can't complain tho, such an ugly ass Mega lol
Not to burst your bubble, but Heracrossnite lacks safe-switch ins; getting revenge killed is one thing, but not having any counters supersedes that and crosses the line, making it broken, imo.

Anyway, I have been testing some cool ways to abuse the newer Pokemon, moves, or things that got better over the generational shift and I came up with this:

Edit: sorry if image doesn't work for you, it is fucking up for me currently.
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Azelf @ Choice Band
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Trait: Levitate
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off
- Fire Punch / Trick
- U-turn

With Knock Off, CB Azelf is now a legitimate threat in the UU metagame, unlike last generation were it saw pitiful usage and wasn't able to break through walls and function as well as expected in general. With base 115 speed, Azelf is able to outpace a majority of the unboosted metagame and with its arsenal of attacks, it will be able to wear down and kill many offensive threats while also outpacing them, or gaining initiative with u-turn. Knock Off is able to destroy the common switch-ins to Azelf like Latias, Chansey, and other problematic Psychic types (it is a useful utility in general, too). Zen Headbutt is decently strong STAB that is obligatory on CB Azelf. Fire Punch nails incoming Bisharps and Escavliers, not to mention other steel types that won't enjoy tanking it - trick can cripple some Pokemon, but you are likely better off attacking - including knocking off their item which is better more often than not. Finally, u-turn gains momentum and does a lot to incoming Celebi, Latias, Weavile, etc.

Overall, it isn't amazing by any stretch of the imagination, but it can lure in a few otherwise problematic Pokemon, does a sufficient job when called upon, and can abuse the surprising knock off. Azelf can function as a team supporter for Pokemon benefiting from what it contributes and I find Azelf to fit into many teams pretty well because of this.

Oh and Analytic AssVest Magnezone is kind of lols, but it has worked well for a friend of mine, but he hasn't played much here (noticed a lot of earlier posters posted specs, but not AV, so I figured I would give it a mention).
 
That isn't remotely relevant to their UU tiering status.
The thing is, Tiers are not exact replica's of each other, where each tier is ''weaker'' than the other, e.g. lower attacking stats or defensive stats for 'mons filling the same role. Due to each 'Mon functioning different than others, tiers can have a big difference. This means that there will also be some sort of Typing border, where as in OU Talonflame is used a lot, people will start running Rock-types to deal with it. as a result, Fighting types will be used more often to deal with those Rock types. and Fighting types have a weakness to Flying. So, say if there are a lot of Fighting and Rock type attacks in OU, Kyurem-B would not do well in that environment, since it would be too hostile for it to survive and function well. But if there are a lot of Water, Grass and Electric type attacks, Kyurem-B Would have an easy time switching in (provided rocks aren't on the field but let's ignore that for now). And Water and Electric moves are used quite often in UU Beta, so as a result, Kyurem-B can do well here, but can't do well in OU. Because of that, he will drop to UU, where he becomes almost too powerful for the tier.

I think this goes the same for other borderline 'mons, like last gen.
 
Choice Scarfed Mienshao with Knock Off is pretty decent, it replaces Aerial Ace which was used last gen.

And lacking safe switch ins doesn't make pokemon broken. Victini last gen had basically 0 safe switch ins due to the special and physical sets countering different mons, but it was voted to stay in the tier. Mega-Heracross was never really an issue for anyone I know, myself included. The many complaints I've seen from people are still the two Deoxys forms being UU, Thundurus-T, and sometimes Latias.
 
As a user who has made it to the top of the UU ladder multiple times on multiple accounts using multiple styles without using any of the Bans, except of Mega heracross(which i would like an explanation for, but that doesnt seem like it's going to happen any time soon.) I can still say that this is a very fun and balanced metagame at the moment. Bisharp can be a pain but eh we're gonna have those no matter what

was any of them a cleff bomb team?
 
What is the most common Bisharp set? I haven't seen many with Sub like last gen, so I'm not sure whether I should run enough speed ev's to outspeed and WoW with certain 'mons.
 
What is the most common Bisharp set? I haven't seen many with Sub like last gen, so I'm not sure whether I should run enough speed ev's to outspeed and WoW with certain 'mons.
I've seen rock polish, SD, and sub SD. I'm guessing the first two had max speed max att and the sub se has hp investment. Not sure exact numbers though. SD is the most common though, with SD sucker punch, iron head, knock off or brick break.
 
Has anybody else been havin success with sand? I switched to sand team with a good core in hippowdon, amoongus, and av snorlax and it is very good. Av snorlax is key since it checks ine of the most powerful special attackers in the tier: mega gard. Hyper voice is a 4hko i believe? I ran this with banded diggersby and scarf rotom h and its a very balanced team
 
Has anybody else been havin success with sand? I switched to sand team with a good core in hippowdon, amoongus, and av snorlax and it is very good. Av snorlax is key since it checks ine of the most powerful special attackers in the tier: mega gard. Hyper voice is a 4hko i believe? I ran this with banded diggersby and scarf rotom h and its a very balanced team

What about a banded stoutland? He is UU and has a nice 110 base attack, he even gets play rough now. He could make a great win-condition for a sand team.
 
I've seen rock polish, SD, and sub SD. I'm guessing the first two had max speed max att and the sub se has hp investment. Not sure exact numbers though. SD is the most common though, with SD sucker punch, iron head, knock off or brick break.

Well find out in 2 weeks what the stats come out. I saw a bunch of LO variants and a few swords dance. I havent seen any sub or rock polish tbh...
 
Has anybody else been havin success with sand? I switched to sand team with a good core in hippowdon, amoongus, and av snorlax and it is very good. Av snorlax is key since it checks ine of the most powerful special attackers in the tier: mega gard. Hyper voice is a 4hko i believe? I ran this with banded diggersby and scarf rotom h and its a very balanced team

I don't know what EV spreads you're running but M-Gardevoir can 2HKO with Psyshock (using the spread posted by DTC on the last page.)
 
What about a banded stoutland? He is UU and has a nice 110 base attack, he even gets play rough now. He could make a great win-condition for a sand team.

I thought about stoutland but diggersby hasbthe secondary stab earthquake and priority quick attack. And it scares the heck out of bisharp...
 
I thought about stoutland but diggersby hasbthe secondary stab earthquake and priority quick attack. And it scares the heck out of bisharp...
This is true, but diggersby can't outspeed much unless it gets an agility off, and it doesn't benefit from the sand in any way (nobody in this team outside of the last member you didn't mention even benefits from sand, so why not run sand force hippo or something?). Bisharp can just sucker punch you and if you decide to lock yourself into quick attack he can use knock off or even set up.
The real perk of stoutland is that it doesn't need to set up, and that's invaluable. 1 turn is all that's needed for some sweepers to just crush everything and not even needing that is pretty cool.
 
This is true, but diggersby can't outspeed much unless it gets an agility off, and it doesn't benefit from the sand in any way (nobody in this team outside of the last member you didn't mention even benefits from sand, so why not run sand force hippo or something?). Bisharp can just sucker punch you and if you decide to lock yourself into quick attack he can use knock off or even set up.
The real perk of stoutland is that it doesn't need to set up, and that's invaluable. 1 turn is all that's needed for some sweepers to just crush everything and not even needing that is pretty cool.

But lets keeep in mind the power difference is quite noticable. Stoutland reaches 350 with an adamant nature while diggersby hits 464 with adamant nature. Diggersbyis still stronger with a jolky nature. Stoutland is still bulkier with 85/90/90 comparee to diggersby 85/77/77. Perhaps both can be used to wear down each others checks...
 
Diggersbyis still stronger with a jolky nature.
Lol jolky sounds funny.
Has anybody else been havin success with sand? I switched to sand team with a good core in hippowdon, amoongus, and av snorlax and it is very good. Av snorlax is key since it checks ine of the most powerful special attackers in the tier: mega gard. Hyper voice is a 4hko i believe? I ran this with banded diggersby and scarf rotom h and its a very balanced team
Sorry. Anyway I wouldn't suggest using both, especially because you have snorlax. Super fighting weak. And, why would you use amoongus and snorlax in sand? They don't benefit from it actually it's bad for them. Snorlax loses all recovery with av and gets worn down much quicker. Amoongus can deal with the damage, and deals with water types who get hippo, but I would say gastrodon is much better because it's immune to sandstorm and water moves. Also slowking can wall sub/cm 3 attacks megagardevoir if they have focus blast and not tbolt. Then I guess you are more grass weak. Hm.
 
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