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[sford08]

Hello,
I've been tweaking this team for a little bit now and I think I've made it as strong as I can with anly outside help. Right now I winning on shoddy around 75% of the time. The team's just below these words so give it a look and let me know if you any ideas for improvement.


Team at a glance:

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Team in depth: Changes in RED

Aerodactyl (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

I tend to be a bit nervious when I use Aerodactyl as a lead but I've been happy with the results I've had testing out this team so far. Aerodactly does its job well: taunting any setup leads and getting stealth rocks going. The only real problem is that Aerodactyl only rarely takes out another poke. On this team however, that's been more then enough. I'm running rock slide over stone edge because aerodactyl usually only gets one hit in and that makes the accuracy important to me.
Water goes to: Gyarados
Electric goes to: Jolteon, Mamoswine
Ice goes to: Infernape
Rock goes to: :( (I need help with this)
Steal goes to: Gyarados, Jolteon, Infernape

Gyarados (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
Dancing Gyarados maybe nothing new but he's never gotten borring to me. I use HP flying in this move set to try and get as much coverage as I can and to give myself an honest counter to fighting types. Gyarados is also a good compliment to aero lead. As I've said before, Aerodactyl has a bad habit of dying and Gyarados matches up well against alot of common openers.
Electric goes to: Jolteon, Mamoswine
Rock goes to: (Here's that nasty rock problem again.)

Heracross (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk/6 Def/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Pursuit
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
Ah, Heracross. One of my favorite pokes and the guy I built the team around. The choice scarf set makes Heracross a great revenger killer. I'm running stone edge and pursuit to try and give heracross as much type coverage as possible. To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure there are any problems here. Which probably means that there's something hugly wrong with it. Please let me know if you can see it.
Fire goes to: Aerodactyl, Gyarados, Infernape
Flying goes to: Aerodactyl, Jolteon
Psychic goes to: Jolteon

Mamoswine (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 124 HP/252 Atk/64 Def/70 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Avalanche
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Superpower
This is my first team to use mamoswine and results have been mixed. While he's a strong poke, he just seems to be weak to to many things in the meta game. With Scizors, Infernapes, Machamps and lucarios all waiting around with prioity moves I don't have great confidence in mamoswine. I also want to know if you think I should be ruuning both ice shard and avalance in the same moveset. I was always taught to avoid using two atks of the same type but the person who recomended mamoswine to me insisted he had these two moves. Superpower has been the star of this moveset so far and to be fair, the ice pig has taken down a few pokes for me. Its never gone sweeping but it might be tweakable. Let me know what you think.
Fire goes to: Aerodactyl, Gyarados, Infernape
Water goes to: Gyarados
Grass goes to: Heracross, Infernape
Fighting goes to: Gyarados, Heracross
Bug goes to: Aerodactyl, Infernape, Gyarados, Heracross
Steal goes to: Gyarados, Jolteon, Infernape

Jolteon (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 24 Def/234 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Sleep Talk
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
Specs Jolt is on the team both as my Sp.Atker and status absorber. Hp grass is used to take out Swampert and to give me something to do if dugtrio gets me stuck in an arena trap. Sleep talk covers hypnosis/spore. I have Shadow Ball opn the set to try and make up for my teams weakness to psychic. It's not quite enough to ensure a win over a psychic type but since the only mono type psychic thats seeing much use these days is Alakazam - and since Specs Jolt is faster then Alakazam - its a good attack for me to have. Do I need to explain thunderbolt?
Ground goes to: Aerodactyl, Heracross, Gyarados

Infernape (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk/194 Spd/64 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Close Combat
- Grass Knot
- Mach Punch
- Overheat
Infernape my be a bit repetative considering that I'm already running Heracross but I've been mostly pleased with his results so far. The inclusion of grass knot may now be verging on standard operation procedure but I can't think of any better counter to the bult of Infernape counters out there. Mach Punch is here for revenge killing and that works well in conjunction with a frail Aerodactyl lead. I'd be willing to change this poke but it would take some convincing.
Water goes to: Gyarados
Ground goes to: Aerodactyl, Heracross, Gyarados
Flying goes to: Aerodactyl, Jolteon
Psychic goes to: Jolteon




Well that's my team so far, let me know what you think.

 

[Sabafish]

Team sounds pretty standard but I'd like to change a few things.

Your Aerodactyl set should be running EQ over Rock Slide, imo. With all the Metagross leads running around lately, I think having something that can at least damage them would help you nicely. It'd also work well with your Ice Fang, I guess, seeing as it'll hit opposing Aero leads.

And another thing, DD-Dos with HP [Flying]? Sorry but this isn't 3rd Gen, dude. HP is special and it'll do nothing for you on an Adamant DD-Dos :\ Again, I'd suggest EQ in place of that. If you really fear Fighting types that much, you should choose Bounce. But that's pretty gimicky, IMO. A DD boosted Waterfall or EQ should hit them just fine. But HP? No no no.

MixApe looks pretty standard but I can't help but feel it needs a little change. Hopefully someone else could do that for ya.

 

[sford08]

Team sounds pretty standard but I'd like to change a few things.

Your Aerodactyl set should be running EQ over Rock Slide, imo. With all the Metagross leads running around lately, I think having something that can at least damage them would help you nicely. It'd also work well with your Ice Fang, I guess, seeing as it'll hit opposing Aero leads.

And another thing, DD-Dos with HP [Flying]? Sorry but this isn't 3rd Gen, dude. HP is special and it'll do nothing for you on an Adamant DD-Dos :\ Again, I'd suggest EQ in place of that. If you really fear Fighting types that much, you should choose Bounce. But that's pretty gimicky, IMO. A DD boosted Waterfall or EQ should hit them just fine. But HP? No no no.

MixApe looks pretty standard but I can't help but feel it needs a little change. Hopefully someone else could do that for ya.

Thanks for the advice. I've added EQ to the movesets you suggested and its worked well in playtesting so far.

 

[ouchies]

Nice team i really reaaly really x 3967496748 like it. Yes it has flaws like every team. Firstly I noticed you are quite weak to Stealth Rock. And you also have quite a big weakness to water To counter this how about going for a more bulky lead getting rid of Aerodactyl thereby deleting alot of weaknesses as well as the SR one.

here are the leads i think would work well and fit in to your weaknesses and resistances:

Swampert - Takes away alot of weaknesses from the team including SR and your water weakness and deletes your - 1 hit in from my lead - problem.
Azelf - Also takes away alot of resistances but lacks some useful traits Swampert has. Fits into weaknesses and resistances nicely and provides some Psychic resistance and when things get tough you can explode whenever you like.
Mamoswine - You could move Mamoswine to your lead and take out faster leads like Aerodactyl with Ice Shard. If you moved this to your lead I'd reccomend putting something bulky like Skarmory or Blissey. Blissey fits well in to the team bringing no unwanted weaknesses.

Any one of these leads completely changes the direction your team goes in so choose well.

If youd rather stay with Aerodactyl then i reccomend switching out Infernape for another mixed sweeper with typing to suit your team. Mixed Electivire can absorb Gyarados dreaded elelctric attacks and use it to sweep. This thing also keeps a resistance to steel and flying which you may have a problem with. It also deletes the weakness of water and turns it in to a strength. Here is the reccomended Electivire mixed set:

Electivire @ Expert Belt
Nature: Mild
Evs: 252 spa/ 220 spe/ 36 atk
Ability: Motor Drive
Cross Chop
Thunderbolt
HP Grass
Flamethrower

Alternatively you go go all out physical if this set isn't doing enough damage

Electivire @ Expert Belt
Nature: Adamant
Evs: 252 atk/ 252 spe/ 4 hp
Ability: Motor Drive
Earthquake
Cross Chop
ThunderPunch
IcePunch

Hopefully this helped.

Check out my team -> http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58963

 

[Toaster]

hmm if your having problems with rock i suggest replacing one of your fighters with a lucario as it 4X rock and helps your team stay alive rather than switching back and forth on pokemon netrual to rock
rather than going with the standard SD luke try the choice scarf set as it gets some neaty revenge kills

lucario@choice scarf
ability:inner focus
evs:40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
nature:mild
-close combat
-dark pulse
-stone edge
-hp ice/hp grass
seeing that you have some ice users its OK to replace hp ice with hp grass as it takes down swampert which most of your team fears (well not most really)dark pulse is there for filnch,if your running hp grass you could change stone edge to ice punch

hope this helps and good luck with your team!

 

[ouchies]

hmm if your having problems with rock i suggest replacing one of your fighters with a lucario as it 4X rock and helps your team stay alive rather than switching back and forth on pokemon netrual to rock
rather than going with the standard SD luke try the choice scarf set as it gets some neaty revenge kills

Ok but whatever he replaces with Lucario hes gonna find new problems...for example if he replaced Gyarados with Lucario it would make 3 weaknesses on ground and fire and getting rid of a fighting resistance that Lucario needs. Yeah Lucario has 4x resistance to rock...he also has 70 defence and spdefence and he too has weaknesses that need to be taken care of. You can't just send something in because of its few resistances, or 10. Another example, you replace Jolteon with Lucario, Now the teeam has 3 fire weaknesses 2 ground and 2 fighting, also there are no special attackers apart from Infernape who has a very limited supply of them.

try the choice scarf set as it gets some neaty revenge kills

lucario@choice scarf
ability:inner focus
evs:40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
nature:mild
-close combat
-dark pulse
-stone edge
-hp ice/hp grass

Yeah i know why don't i just reccomend a set because it's cool. I think Heracross does the revenge killing?

Personally I love Lucario and it is my favourite pokemon but don't use him just for the sake of it.

 

[Toaster]

ya heracross does the revenge killing but im only suggesting lucario because of the ability to go mixed unlike heracross,lucario is also faster than heracross

and no i didnt put a set out of nowhere because its cool,not knowing that using a pokemon set because its cool is the easiest way to lose

you did prove a good point on the first point

 

[macle]

Your team seems to be lucario weak. Gyarados is able to stop it but with sr and lo recoil gyarados might have not have enough hp to counter it. That's why I suggest using a bulkier spread and left overs as the item.

 

[ouchies]

Im sorry but im gonna have to disagree with you Macle.

Your team seems to be lucario weak. Gyarados is able to stop it but with sr and lo recoil gyarados might have not have enough hp to counter it. That's why I suggest using a bulkier spread and left overs as the item.

The team is not very Lucario weak at all. Firstly if Lucario hasnt had the chance to get a Swords Dance in a simple Mach Punch from Infernape should OHKO it or maybe a flamethrower or something. Heracross also resists Close Combat and can strike back fast with Close Combat itself as ExtremeSpeed will not kill it unless Heracross is about to die. If Lucario has less than 70% of it's hp left then Jolteon can easily revenge kil it with Thunderbolt or something assuming it hasn't had a SD. Mamoswine can outrun any Adamant Lucario and go for the OHKO with Earthquake. Yes Gyarados does counter it well as Gyarados has Intimidate and all special types of Lucario are in my opinion quite weak and low hitting. I agree though that Gyarados should by all means have a bulkier spread.

I also have a bulkydos =)

Why am i giving so much attention to this team?

 

[sford08]

Alright, there seems to be two issues poping up:

#1) Switch to a bulky style Gyarados
#2) Find something better then infernape for the last spot. Though there isn't much agreement about who his replacement should be.

I'll start test running the bulkydos but if anyone comes up with a suggestion for a sixth poke let me know.

 

[Toaster]

Im sorry but im gonna have to disagree with you Macle.

The team is not very Lucario weak at all. Firstly if Lucario hasnt had the chance to get a Swords Dance in a simple Mach Punch from Infernape should OHKO it or maybe a flamethrower or something. Heracross also resists Close Combat and can strike back fast with Close Combat itself as ExtremeSpeed will not kill it unless Heracross is about to die. If Lucario has less than 70% of it's hp left then Jolteon can easily revenge kil it with Thunderbolt or something assuming it hasn't had a SD. Mamoswine can outrun any Adamant Lucario and go for the OHKO with Earthquake. Yes Gyarados does counter it well as Gyarados has Intimidate and all special types of Lucario are in my opinion quite weak and low hitting. I agree though that Gyarados should by all means have a bulkier spread.

I also have a bulkydos =)

Why am i giving so much attention to this team?

you only mentioned SDluke but you forgot the many other variants that could pop up as luke is not a physical beast at all it can be a special beast for ex,gyra may have to be on the look out on stone edge from the CB set and jolteon will meet a suprise when scarflukes 418 speed kicks in and does some major damage with close combat

just becasue that set is common doesnt mean its the only one and no special sets are hard hitting because 115 sp.attack is nothing to scoff off at

 

[ouchies]

just becasue that set is common doesnt mean its the only one and no special sets are hard hitting because 115 sp.attack is nothing to scoff off at

Firstly since the SD set is so common it will be the one you will most likely to encounter therefore it is worth trying to counter that set rather than say, the reversal set. 115 spa although it is the higher of the two attacking stats doesn't mean Lucario is better that way, there is also the move power, the things you hit super effectivly, power boosts and items and since the special sets can't get a power boost or a higher move power it is weaker compaed to the SD set. It doesn't matter what set Lucario has it will almost always die or be switched out at the hand...hand?...tail of Gyarados.

Alright, there seems to be two issues poping up:

#1) Switch to a bulky style Gyarados
#2) Find something better then infernape for the last spot. Though there isn't much agreement about who his replacement should be.

I'll start test running the bulkydos but if anyone comes up with a suggestion for a sixth poke let me know.

Hello i gave you a suggestion for last poke...look up at your third reply and see Electivire.