SM UU YouthBerry's Trash Minior Team Peaks #4 (1753)

Intro:

So some of you may know me, I've been part of the UU community for a while now! Back in ORAS, I originally came to fame for the OG squad with Weezing and Heracross. I've come a long way since then, I've built many successful teams that have led to success, I've learned that ladder is essentially meaningless but can be useful for testing teams, and I've found both success and failure in multiple competitive tournaments including most recently dominating my Majors pool with an undefeated record before losing in 2nd round of the playoffs. Overall, my accomplishments in mons aren't anything to write home about, definitely had my peaks and valleys. I recognize my skills as a battler solid but unspectacular, but the real prize of all this time spent playing mons all these years is the friends I've made along the way.

Enter this trash team that I initially built in 5 mins upon the mass drop of mons to UU including Mega and non-mega Latios, Zeraora and Bisharp. I put together this team with the simple idea of wanting checks to these new introductions as I knew they would be popular on ladder, plus I threw in some mons that I thought would be fun to mess around with on lower-ladder on an alt as I learned how these new introductions to the tier would fit in UU. I used Assault Vest Bisharp during initial testing (AV Bisharp is pretty solid btw), and when Bisharp was being initially removed from the tier after the council vote but before the suspect test, I simply switched it to AV Metagross who could perform a similar role. The team ended up hitting a new level upon this change and I quickly had success with it playing on an alt. I felt so good about the team (despite knowing it's limitations) that I brought it to Majors playoffs where it won in a terrific game. Then on this past Friday, I had some time in the afternoon at work and played a few ladder games, climbing from about 1600 to 4th highest on the ladder and that's what prompted me to make this RMT. I realize this team is trash, it has severe limitations against fatter builds and has almost no chance against competent stall builds, and so I hope the community doesn't take this RMT too seriously. It's a fun team for those who play this game casually, and I think it both highlights my ability as a player to guide a sub-optimal team to success and how trash ladder really is.

Proof of Peak:


The Team:


Sergio (Metagross) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Atk / 88 SpD / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- Earthquake

As mentioned above, Assault Vest Metagross on this team was initially Assault Vest Bisharp (with 3 dark type moves + Low Kick), and the change to Metagross has helped this team take a step forward. The main job of this Metagross is to switch-in and weaken/remove Latias which opens up things for teammates. With Latias removed, Kommo-o can largely keep Stealth Rocks up, Zeraora isn't checked by scarf/Z-move variations, Minior isn't outsped by Scarf Latias after a Shell Smash but before lowering it's shield, etc. Metagross is also bulky enough to switch-in comfortably on a number of things and pressure them, things like Togekiss, Mega Altaria, Nihilego, Celebi (watch for +2 Z-Earth Power though), Crobat, and Mega Pidgeot. The moveset is directly from the XY Smogon recommended set, with a slight alteration in speed to ensure that I get the jump on opposing bulky Metagross (not that common I know) and bulky Volcanion. Earthquake is chosen over Zen Headbutt to have a super effective move for most Steel types and potential Fire types that like to switch in while also allowing Metagross to heavily damage or even KO Mega Manectric, Raikou, and Zeraora in a pinch. Bullet Punch can be viable priority for things like weakened Mamoswine even if it isn't terribly powerful. The defensive typing of Metagross means this is largely the switch-in for things like Primarina who come in on Kommo-o and are ready to pump a powerful Moonblast at it.


Zion (Zeraora) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Grass Knot

A recent addition to the UU tier, Zeraora is an interesting mon with it's blazing speed and terrific coverage. It's not a mon that can truly break past walls due to mediocre power, but it beats the things that it should most of the time and can be tough for balance and offense squads to handle with the right predictions. I'm not sure where people find the room to run things like Fire Punch because I feel like this set is pretty darn optimized to hit as much as possible as hard as possible. Plasma Fists is obligatory stab, Close Combat has a good chance to OHKO things like Hydreigon and hits the Mega Steel types like Mega Steelix and Mega Aggron a lot harder than Fire Punch. Knock Off is mostly for Latias, but it also removes the Eviolite from Gligar and can also remove the important Choice Scarf on common switch-in Krookodile. Grass Knot 2HKO's mixed defenses Hippowdon on the switch and also dunks on Swampert, Rhyperior, and Quagsire. Expert Belt is used to nab some KO's like the 2HKO on mixed defenses Hippowdon while not eating into Zeraora's limited health. This mon also offensively checks a number of flying types like Moltres and water types like Primarina for this team which is important. It's also one of this team's best answers to stall lacking Amoongus if you make predictions well which shows you how bad this team really is.


Larry (Kommo-o) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 158 SpA / 98 Spe
Rash Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Clanging Scales
- Flamethrower
- Drain Punch

This is 100% one of the MVP's of the team! Kommo-o, aka "Clanger", is super consistent in being able to set and keep rocks up due it's quality matchup against most Rapid Spin and Defog users. It wins against hazard removers like Empoleon, Tentacruel, the Rotoms, Forretress, Scizor, has a very good chance to 2HKO Gligar after rocks, and doesn't completely fold against the offensive spinners like Mega Blastoise, Tsareena. Clanging Scales is stupid spammable and chunks opposing teams for other members on this team. I can't tell you how many times people gave up their Tentacruel to keep rocks off the field, only to have my Scizor run through them later. Flamethrower is useful coverage for threats like Scizor and Cobalion as well as Mega Aggron, and Drain Punch is alternate STAB for things like Empoleon and Blissey who may think you're running a fully special attacking set. The mixed attacking prowess plus the Overcoat ability make Kommo-o one of the better stall answers on the team which again should tell you how bad this team is. The EV spread is designed to outspeed Max Speed Adamant Scizor while also being bulky AF for things like Bisharp and more (avoids 2hko from Choice Scarf Infernape), with the rest of the EVs dumped into special attack to ensure that it isn't passive. It's not scientific, it's just effective.


Max (Minior-Green) @ White Herb
Ability: Shields Down
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Substitute
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake

This is a mon that I just slapped on the team as a potential offensive sweeper and a way to offensively take advantage of all the Moltres love on ladder. I quickly learned that while this mon has poor matchups (Very bulky teams, especially ones with Unaware users)and can be completely useless in some games, that it can also run through opposing teams in a hurry when the requirements for sweeping are met or the opponent screws up. It's kinda damn good in UU, and I have thrashed many a competent player with it which you can check out in the replays listed below. Removing priority users like Scizor, Mamoswine, and Crawdaunt are close to a must before setting up, but you can get around that by utilizing Substitute in some instances. And if you can successfully get behind a substitute and be set up, you are in the driver's seat to a victory as Minior has ideal coverage in just 2 attacking moves. You can also pretty safely set up on things like Toxic Hippowdon (Whirlwind variations will just phase you out but they can't touch you), Klefki (remember that Shields Down protects you from status), Amoongus, Moltres, Mega Pidgeot, Crobat, most Alolan-Muk (watch though as Knock Off into the low ladder fav Shadow Sneak KO's after Rocks damage), and even Mega Beedrill. There are other passive mons that you can set up on too so make sure to utilize the Pokémon Damage Calculator to understand which mons you can safely set up on. Remember that Minior undergoes a stat change after getting below 50% health and it's shield comes down. suddenly it outspeeds pretty well everything at +2 and gets way more powerful, so subbing down into range if possible is generally ideal and also gives a chance for your opponent to screw up by switching out, thereby letting you keep your sub for free. Overall, the moveset is standard, and I run Adamant to ensure it hits as hard as possible. Even before it's shield drops with Adamant nature after a Shell Smash, Minior is plenty fast and hits 438 speed which ties with Jolly Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Beedrill, and even Zeraora and Mega Manectric. White Herb is useful to reset your dropped defenses after the first Shell Smash and upon doing so, you also secure the max power of Acrobatics. Overall, this is a really dangerous mon even though it's currently in NU, and it can be plenty viable in UU.


Cora (Altaria-Mega) @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Defog
- Roost

This is probably the mon that feels the most out of place on the team at times. It was plopped into the team as a means of handling Zeraora easily, being the obligatory Fairy type so that Hydreigon doesn't have free reign, and the ability to defog and remove hazards for the rest of the team. It does perform those jobs well, and takes on most fighting types well too and overall is a solid tank, but far too often it's a momentum suck that invites threats in like Mamoswine to apply massive pressure. It also gets pressured by passive mons thanks to no heal bell and is useless in stall matchups besides removing hazards. Not really sure what else could potentially fit in this spot and accomplish similar roles while potentially providing more so it's stayed here. The moveset is fairly standard, Moonblast for STAB, Flamethrower to catch incoming Scizor and Cobalion (both don't OHKO Mega Altaria by the way and you can stay in to hit them hard if needed), Defog to remove hazards and support the team that way, and Roost to be able to do it consistently. Max/Max EVs focused on physically defensive bulk allow this mon to counter a ton of things including Zeraora, Krookodile, Mega Sharpedo, Infernape, Kommo-o, Crawdaunt, Chesnaught, and Tsareena. It can also check other things like Terrakion (+2 Z-Stone Edge KO's tho so watch out), Heracross (+2 Façade from Flame Orb Guts has a good chance to OHKO after rocks) and Latias in a pinch. Overall, it's a decent tank that supports decently well, but one that notably feels like the weak link at times.


Tate (Scizor) (M) @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Technician
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Roost

Finally the last member, Fightinium Z Scizor is a true threat and the one that often ends up either breaking through the defensive core or cleaning up at the end. Pretty straightforward set, SD for the power boost, Bullet Punch for incredible priority, Superpower to power through many typical checks like Cobalion, Rotom-H, and Mega Aggron, and Roost to be able to set up on things like Toxic Hippowdon or recover on things that Scizor offensively checks like Kyurem. This set wins so many games, and I think it's perhaps the most consistent one for the mon in the tier. Go look at the UU viability rankings, and then at this set, and realize how effective it can be against the tier's best mons. Typical checks to Scizor like Mega Manecric, the Steel types like Mega Aggron and Mega Steelix and even opposing Scizor, and then the common fire types like Infernape and Rotom-Heat all don't like switching in on a Z-Superpower. At +2, Z-Superpower OHKO's Mega Aggron and Mega Steelix and bulky Scizor after rocks. It's no joke, and lets Scizor break through walls for itself and it's teammates. EV spread allows Scizor to avoid the KO from Mega Sharpedo even with rocks and a layer of spikes up while hitting as hard as possible. Rest dumped into speed. Unfortunately, it has a poor matchup against stall build, particularly ones with unaware mons (so pretty well any competent stall) like Quagsire and Pyukumuku.

Threat List:

Stall – Easily the worst matchup you can face with this team, as there is no dedicated stall breaker on this team (I feel ashamed because I generally always run stall-breakers). Zeraora and Kommo-o can pressure bad stall enough to win, and I have won against stall, but against any competent stall player, this team has little to no chance.

Hippowdon
– Without a mon that has a STAB move super effective move against it, Hippowdon can be rather annoying, especially whirlwind variations. Essentially it comes down to wearing it down and hopefully getting it in range for Zeraora to Grass Knot. Both Scizor and Minior can take advantage of non-Whirlwind variations but if the opponent does have it, you just have to chip away at it.

Mamoswine -
This mon is a huge threat to the team with it's Ice/Ground dual STAB typing. You can try and play around it, but only Scizor is capable of switching in and providing offensive pressure back (Note that Scizor fails to OHKO). Zeraora can also apply offensive pressure to it with both Close Combat and Grass Knot but cannot switch-in.

Suicune and Mega Slowbro – The Calm mind users are tough on this team, and much of the ability to handle them comes down to avoiding scald burns with Zeraora and applying enough pressure to keep them from setting up too much. Note that Plasma Fists only has a 10.9% chance to 2HKO Mega Slowbro and Grass Knot suddenly fails to 2HKO after a CM. Both are major threats!

Nidoking/Nidoqueen– Like a lot of bulky offense teams, this team struggles to handle the Nido's power and coverage and there's not a lot of counterplay at all besides trying to play around them and chipping them for other mons to clean up.

Replays:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-819303150 vs. EHT - read the comments during battle lol
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-818707556 vs. Finchinator in Majors playoffs
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-824514432 vs. Harris who got thrashed by Minior
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-824506785 vs UUBS MS3D
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-826076329 vs Boost Swoosh
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-824500945 vs Hazard Stack Stall

Shoutouts:
I apologize in advance if I miss anyone, but here goes!
Everyone who is in the #theyneverlisten discord, you guys are the best! CBU, Bad Rap Sample, FTL, Bhris Brown, Lord Iroh, PDT, Rob, Low Ladder Heroes, Sun, Renny, Zben Sparrow, BluBirD, Island Spices, King UU, Sage, YeezyKnows, Horsehead3, Pillow Wisp, Haate, cubonesmotherr, edaKiwi, DrReuniclus3, Sam I Yam, Lucqq, the legend Papagoi, and my boy Scheff! There’s more ladder friends out there for sure, so if you see me playing, don’t hesitate to give me crap and say hi!



Conclusion:
So yeah, that is the team! It’s a fun bulky offensive one that does a pretty good job of taking advantage some of the current metagame trends and new introductions. It's really trash overall because of it's poor matchup against some builds, but it's found moderate success and I'm not sure if I should be proud or you should be ashamed after getting blown back by this atrocity. Regardless, I hope it helps low-ladder peeps and inspires people to build with less than traditional UU mons and be more open to innovation. Would appreciate any insights you can offer to help improve this team for the future, particularly with the stall matchup! Cheers.​
 
Intro:

So some of you may know me, I've been part of the UU community for a while now! Back in ORAS, I originally came to fame for the OG squad with Weezing and Heracross. I've come a long way since then, I've built many successful teams that have led to success, I've learned that ladder is essentially meaningless but can be useful for testing teams, and I've found both success and failure in multiple competitive tournaments including most recently dominating my Majors pool with an undefeated record before losing in 2nd round of the playoffs. Overall, my accomplishments in mons aren't anything to write home about, definitely had my peaks and valleys. I recognize my skills as a battler solid but unspectacular, but the real prize of all this time spent playing mons all these years is the friends I've made along the way.

Enter this trash team that I initially built in 5 mins upon the mass drop of mons to UU including Mega and non-mega Latios, Zeraora and Bisharp. I put together this team with the simple idea of wanting checks to these new introductions as I knew they would be popular on ladder, plus I threw in some mons that I thought would be fun to mess around with on lower-ladder on an alt as I learned how these new introductions to the tier would fit in UU. I used Assault Vest Bisharp during initial testing (AV Bisharp is pretty solid btw), and when Bisharp was being initially removed from the tier after the council vote but before the suspect test, I simply switched it to AV Metagross who could perform a similar role. The team ended up hitting a new level upon this change and I quickly had success with it playing on an alt. I felt so good about the team (despite knowing it's limitations) that I brought it to Majors playoffs where it won in a terrific game. Then on this past Friday, I had some time in the afternoon at work and played a few ladder games, climbing from about 1600 to 4th highest on the ladder and that's what prompted me to make this RMT. I realize this team is trash, it has severe limitations against fatter builds and has almost no chance against competent stall builds, and so I hope the community doesn't take this RMT too seriously. It's a fun team for those who play this game casually, and I think it both highlights my ability as a player to guide a sub-optimal team to success and how trash ladder really is.

Proof of Peak:


The Team:


Sergio (Metagross) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Atk / 88 SpD / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- Earthquake

As mentioned above, Assault Vest Metagross on this team was initially Assault Vest Bisharp (with 3 dark type moves + Low Kick), and the change to Metagross has helped this team take a step forward. The main job of this Metagross is to switch-in and weaken/remove Latias which opens up things for teammates. With Latias removed, Kommo-o can largely keep Stealth Rocks up, Zeraora isn't checked by scarf/Z-move variations, Minior isn't outsped by Scarf Latias after a Shell Smash but before lowering it's shield, etc. Metagross is also bulky enough to switch-in comfortably on a number of things and pressure them, things like Togekiss, Mega Altaria, Nihilego, Celebi (watch for +2 Z-Earth Power though), Crobat, and Mega Pidgeot. The moveset is directly from the XY Smogon recommended set, with a slight alteration in speed to ensure that I get the jump on opposing bulky Metagross (not that common I know) and bulky Volcanion. Earthquake is chosen over Zen Headbutt to have a super effective move for most Steel types and potential Fire types that like to switch in while also allowing Metagross to heavily damage or even KO Mega Manectric, Raikou, and Zeraora in a pinch. Bullet Punch can be viable priority for things like weakened Mamoswine even if it isn't terribly powerful. The defensive typing of Metagross means this is largely the switch-in for things like Primarina who come in on Kommo-o and are ready to pump a powerful Moonblast at it.


Zion (Zeraora) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Grass Knot

A recent addition to the UU tier, Zeraora is an interesting mon with it's blazing speed and terrific coverage. It's not a mon that can truly break past walls due to mediocre power, but it beats the things that it should most of the time and can be tough for balance and offense squads to handle with the right predictions. I'm not sure where people find the room to run things like Fire Punch because I feel like this set is pretty darn optimized to hit as much as possible as hard as possible. Plasma Fists is obligatory stab, Close Combat has a good chance to OHKO things like Hydreigon and hits the Mega Steel types like Mega Steelix and Mega Aggron a lot harder than Fire Punch. Knock Off is mostly for Latias, but it also removes the Eviolite from Gligar and can also remove the important Choice Scarf on common switch-in Krookodile. Grass Knot 2HKO's mixed defenses Hippowdon on the switch and also dunks on Swampert, Rhyperior, and Quagsire. Expert Belt is used to nab some KO's like the 2HKO on mixed defenses Hippowdon while not eating into Zeraora's limited health. This mon also offensively checks a number of flying types like Moltres and water types like Primarina for this team which is important. It's also one of this team's best answers to stall lacking Amoongus if you make predictions well which shows you how bad this team really is.


Larry (Kommo-o) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 158 SpA / 98 Spe
Rash Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Clanging Scales
- Flamethrower
- Drain Punch

This is 100% one of the MVP's of the team! Kommo-o, aka "Clanger", is super consistent in being able to set and keep rocks up due it's quality matchup against most Rapid Spin and Defog users. It wins against hazard removers like Empoleon, Tentacruel, the Rotoms, Forretress, Scizor, has a very good chance to 2HKO Gligar after rocks, and doesn't completely fold against the offensive spinners like Mega Blastoise, Tsareena. Clanging Scales is stupid spammable and chunks opposing teams for other members on this team. I can't tell you how many times people gave up their Tentacruel to keep rocks off the field, only to have my Scizor run through them later. Flamethrower is useful coverage for threats like Scizor and Cobalion as well as Mega Aggron, and Drain Punch is alternate STAB for things like Empoleon and Blissey who may think you're running a fully special attacking set. The mixed attacking prowess plus the Overcoat ability make Kommo-o one of the better stall answers on the team which again should tell you how bad this team is. The EV spread is designed to outspeed Max Speed Adamant Scizor while also being bulky AF for things like Bisharp and more (avoids 2hko from Choice Scarf Infernape), with the rest of the EVs dumped into special attack to ensure that it isn't passive. It's not scientific, it's just effective.


Max (Minior-Green) @ White Herb
Ability: Shields Down
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Substitute
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake

This is a mon that I just slapped on the team as a potential offensive sweeper and a way to offensively take advantage of all the Moltres love on ladder. I quickly learned that while this mon has poor matchups (Very bulky teams, especially ones with Unaware users)and can be completely useless in some games, that it can also run through opposing teams in a hurry when the requirements for sweeping are met or the opponent screws up. It's kinda damn good in UU, and I have thrashed many a competent player with it which you can check out in the replays listed below. Removing priority users like Scizor, Mamoswine, and Crawdaunt are close to a must before setting up, but you can get around that by utilizing Substitute in some instances. And if you can successfully get behind a substitute and be set up, you are in the driver's seat to a victory as Minior has ideal coverage in just 2 attacking moves. You can also pretty safely set up on things like Toxic Hippowdon (Whirlwind variations will just phase you out but they can't touch you), Klefki (remember that Shields Down protects you from status), Amoongus, Moltres, Mega Pidgeot, Crobat, most Alolan-Muk (watch though as Knock Off into the low ladder fav Shadow Sneak KO's after Rocks damage), and even Mega Beedrill. There are other passive mons that you can set up on too so make sure to utilize the Pokémon Damage Calculator to understand which mons you can safely set up on. Remember that Minior undergoes a stat change after getting below 50% health and it's shield comes down. suddenly it outspeeds pretty well everything at +2 and gets way more powerful, so subbing down into range if possible is generally ideal and also gives a chance for your opponent to screw up by switching out, thereby letting you keep your sub for free. Overall, the moveset is standard, and I run Adamant to ensure it hits as hard as possible. Even before it's shield drops with Adamant nature after a Shell Smash, Minior is plenty fast and hits 438 speed which ties with Jolly Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Beedrill, and even Zeraora and Mega Manectric. White Herb is useful to reset your dropped defenses after the first Shell Smash and upon doing so, you also secure the max power of Acrobatics. Overall, this is a really dangerous mon even though it's currently in NU, and it can be plenty viable in UU.


Cora (Altaria-Mega) @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Defog
- Roost

This is probably the mon that feels the most out of place on the team at times. It was plopped into the team as a means of handling Zeraora easily, being the obligatory Fairy type so that Hydreigon doesn't have free reign, and the ability to defog and remove hazards for the rest of the team. It does perform those jobs well, and takes on most fighting types well too and overall is a solid tank, but far too often it's a momentum suck that invites threats in like Mamoswine to apply massive pressure. It also gets pressured by passive mons thanks to no heal bell and is useless in stall matchups besides removing hazards. Not really sure what else could potentially fit in this spot and accomplish similar roles while potentially providing more so it's stayed here. The moveset is fairly standard, Moonblast for STAB, Flamethrower to catch incoming Scizor and Cobalion (both don't OHKO Mega Altaria by the way and you can stay in to hit them hard if needed), Defog to remove hazards and support the team that way, and Roost to be able to do it consistently. Max/Max EVs focused on physically defensive bulk allow this mon to counter a ton of things including Zeraora, Krookodile, Mega Sharpedo, Infernape, Kommo-o, Crawdaunt, Chesnaught, and Tsareena. It can also check other things like Terrakion (+2 Z-Stone Edge KO's tho so watch out), Heracross (+2 Façade from Flame Orb Guts has a good chance to OHKO after rocks) and Latias in a pinch. Overall, it's a decent tank that supports decently well, but one that notably feels like the weak link at times.


Tate (Scizor) (M) @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Technician
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Roost

Finally the last member, Fightinium Z Scizor is a true threat and the one that often ends up either breaking through the defensive core or cleaning up at the end. Pretty straightforward set, SD for the power boost, Bullet Punch for incredible priority, Superpower to power through many typical checks like Cobalion, Rotom-H, and Mega Aggron, and Roost to be able to set up on things like Toxic Hippowdon or recover on things that Scizor offensively checks like Kyurem. This set wins so many games, and I think it's perhaps the most consistent one for the mon in the tier. Go look at the UU viability rankings, and then at this set, and realize how effective it can be against the tier's best mons. Typical checks to Scizor like Mega Manecric, the Steel types like Mega Aggron and Mega Steelix and even opposing Scizor, and then the common fire types like Infernape and Rotom-Heat all don't like switching in on a Z-Superpower. At +2, Z-Superpower OHKO's Mega Aggron and Mega Steelix and bulky Scizor after rocks. It's no joke, and lets Scizor break through walls for itself and it's teammates. EV spread allows Scizor to avoid the KO from Mega Sharpedo even with rocks and a layer of spikes up while hitting as hard as possible. Rest dumped into speed. Unfortunately, it has a poor matchup against stall build, particularly ones with unaware mons (so pretty well any competent stall) like Quagsire and Pyukumuku.

Threat List:

Stall – Easily the worst matchup you can face with this team, as there is no dedicated stall breaker on this team (I feel ashamed because I generally always run stall-breakers). Zeraora and Kommo-o can pressure bad stall enough to win, and I have won against stall, but against any competent stall player, this team has little to no chance.

Hippowdon – Without a mon that has a STAB move super effective move against it, Hippowdon can be rather annoying, especially whirlwind variations. Essentially it comes down to wearing it down and hopefully getting it in range for Zeraora to Grass Knot. Both Scizor and Minior can take advantage of non-Whirlwind variations but if the opponent does have it, you just have to chip away at it.

Mamoswine - This mon is a huge threat to the team with it's Ice/Ground dual STAB typing. You can try and play around it, but only Scizor is capable of switching in and providing offensive pressure back (Note that Scizor fails to OHKO). Zeraora can also apply offensive pressure to it with both Close Combat and Grass Knot but cannot switch-in.

Suicune and Mega Slowbro – The Calm mind users are tough on this team, and much of the ability to handle them comes down to avoiding scald burns with Zeraora and applying enough pressure to keep them from setting up too much. Note that Plasma Fists only has a 10.9% chance to 2HKO Mega Slowbro and Grass Knot suddenly fails to 2HKO after a CM. Both are major threats!

Nidoking/Nidoqueen– Like a lot of bulky offense teams, this team struggles to handle the Nido's power and coverage and there's not a lot of counterplay at all besides trying to play around them and chipping them for other mons to clean up.

Replays:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-819303150 vs. EHT - read the comments during battle lol
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-818707556 vs. Finchinator in Majors playoffs
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-824514432 vs. Harris who got thrashed by Minior
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-824506785 vs UUBS MS3D
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-826076329 vs Boost Swoosh
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-824500945 vs Hazard Stack Stall

Shoutouts:
I apologize in advance if I miss anyone, but here goes!
Everyone who is in the #theyneverlisten discord, you guys are the best! CBU, Bad Rap Sample, FTL, Bhris Brown, Lord Iroh, PDT, Rob, Low Ladder Heroes, Sun, Renny, Zben Sparrow, BluBirD, Island Spices, King UU, Sage, YeezyKnows, Horsehead3, Pillow Wisp, Haate, cubonesmotherr, edaKiwi, DrReuniclus3, Sam I Yam, Lucqq, the legend Papagoi, and my boy Scheff! There’s more ladder friends out there for sure, so if you see me playing, don’t hesitate to give me crap and say hi!



Conclusion:
So yeah, that is the team! It’s a fun bulky offensive one that does a pretty good job of taking advantage some of the current metagame trends and new introductions. It's really trash overall because of it's poor matchup against some builds, but it's found moderate success and I'm not sure if I should be proud or you should be ashamed after getting blown back by this atrocity. Regardless, I hope it helps low-ladder peeps and inspires people to build with less than traditional UU mons and be more open to innovation. Would appreciate any insights you can offer to help improve this team for the future, particularly with the stall matchup! Cheers.​
Quick question (I’m new to UU so this may sound stupid): why do you have Moonblast over Hyper Voice on Malt? Hyper Voice bypasses sub!
 
Quick question (I’m new to UU so this may sound stupid): why do you have Moonblast over Hyper Voice on Malt? Hyper Voice bypasses sub!
To ensure that Mega Altaria can hit all types of Kommo-o. If someone is running Soundproof Kommo-o, suddenly Kommo-o essentially walls Mega Altaria. Hope that was helpful!
 
Really cool team you have here, I love the originality of it. Gratz on the peak as well, the only thing I can think of when it comes to altering sets of your current squad would be Kommo-o. As for resolving a lot of the issues you are currently having with the squad here are the major suggestions I would make.

Rotom-H
is my first change over Zera which allows you to deal with Mamoswine defensively but also switches into Hippowdon allowing you to remove hazards it sets or drop a Toxic on it wearing it down for your Minior. Toxic also catches Suicune and Slowbro if they want to use it as an opportunity to set-up with not taking much from volt switch. Overheat with the SpA investment lets you OHKO Celebi after rocks. This change also helps vs Scizor after the minor change to your Kommo-o set. As mentioned above this will be your defog user however as I plan to implement a Spike user for your squad it is mainly there if hazards become too much as your team isn't too bothered by them. The speed lets you outpace base 85's like Mamoswine which you had issues with.
Rotom-Heat @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 236 HP / 20 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Toxic
- Defog

The next change was Klefki over Malt after you claimed it felt off for your squad. I feel like Klefki does a lot for your team, providing you with a Latias and Hydreigon (Not locked into Fire Blast) switch-in, spike setter for Minior to sweep. While it isn't an explicit switch into Nidoking or Nidoqueen due to it having magnet rise it can set-up hazards on them if they lack Flamethrower. Thunder Wave is nice for your Minior and Scizor and can help them potentially get free set-up. Play Rough allows you to beat CM Latias, and hit Hydreigon.
Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Magnet Rise
- Play Rough
- Spikes

My final change involves swapping out Metagross as you now need a form of speed control and an electric immunity. Krookodile was a great fit here which also lets you keep Pursuit support which you wanted to ease keeping rocks up from Kommo-o. Knock Off gives a lot of utility especially vs bulkier teams you previously had problems with. Earthquake is self-explanatory and as for the final slot you can opt for Stone Edge as Maero is kinda scarier to switch into if it has wing attack, but if you find it isn't then Crunch is nice for Slowbro and Latias.
Krookodile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge

Minor Changes:

I think it would be more beneficial to swap up the moves on your Kommo-o. Drain punch I feel lacks the power that you need to muscle through the stall match-up. While it does give you recovery you do have the constant recovery from lefties. Imo Close Combat seems more fitting as you guarantee 2OHKO both Blissey and Empoleon where as this wasn't the case before. I haven't calced for other Pokemon but i'm sure the dmg roles may come into place elsewhere too. It also hits Cobalion slightly harder than Flamethrower too.
Next I feel like Taunt over Flamethrower would be really nice for your squad vs bulkier match-ups especially when your team has a lot to deal with steel types. Taunt helps your stall match-up and keeping rocks on the field vs certain defog users. It also helps vs Hippo which can otherwise Slack Off stall your clanging scales. This helps you break it much easier and can disable whirlwind for you to get in Scizor to set-up and also break. This of course makes you more vulnerable to Scizor however Rotom-H helps alleviate that.
Larry (Kommo-o) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 158 SpA / 98 Spe
Rash Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Clanging Scales
- Taunt
- Close Combat

Overall really cool squad you have and I think these changes address a lot of your problems without creating too many new threats. I haven't explicitly solved your Nidoking issue but you do now have Rotom-H to melt it with Overheat or if Klefki gets in it can Magnet Rise. So it's still quite shaky, as removing your Zera does open the door up more for bulky waters but you have Spikes and Toxic to handle them. Other than that only other thing I would say to add is a full importable as it helps out a lot. I have both versions below for you with my changes and for your original squad, so simply add it to your Rmt and change up the name if you want. Lemme know what you think, all feedback appreciated whether good or bad ^_^


 
Really cool team you have here, I love the originality of it. Gratz on the peak as well, the only thing I can think of when it comes to altering sets of your current squad would be Kommo-o. As for resolving a lot of the issues you are currently having with the squad here are the major suggestions I would make.

Rotom-H
is my first change over Zera which allows you to deal with Mamoswine defensively but also switches into Hippowdon allowing you to remove hazards it sets or drop a Toxic on it wearing it down for your Minior. Toxic also catches Suicune and Slowbro if they want to use it as an opportunity to set-up with not taking much from volt switch. Overheat with the SpA investment lets you OHKO Celebi after rocks. This change also helps vs Scizor after the minor change to your Kommo-o set. As mentioned above this will be your defog user however as I plan to implement a Spike user for your squad it is mainly there if hazards become too much as your team isn't too bothered by them. The speed lets you outpace base 85's like Mamoswine which you had issues with.
Rotom-Heat @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 236 HP / 20 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Toxic
- Defog

The next change was Klefki over Malt after you claimed it felt off for your squad. I feel like Klefki does a lot for your team, providing you with a Latias and Hydreigon (Not locked into Fire Blast) switch-in, spike setter for Minior to sweep. While it isn't an explicit switch into Nidoking or Nidoqueen due to it having magnet rise it can set-up hazards on them if they lack Flamethrower. Thunder Wave is nice for your Minior and Scizor and can help them potentially get free set-up. Play Rough allows you to beat CM Latias, and hit Hydreigon.
Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Magnet Rise
- Play Rough
- Spikes

My final change involves swapping out Metagross as you now need a form of speed control and an electric immunity. Krookodile was a great fit here which also lets you keep Pursuit support which you wanted to ease keeping rocks up from Kommo-o. Knock Off gives a lot of utility especially vs bulkier teams you previously had problems with. Earthquake is self-explanatory and as for the final slot you can opt for Stone Edge as Maero is kinda scarier to switch into if it has wing attack, but if you find it isn't then Crunch is nice for Slowbro and Latias.
Krookodile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge

Minor Changes:

I think it would be more beneficial to swap up the moves on your Kommo-o. Drain punch I feel lacks the power that you need to muscle through the stall match-up. While it does give you recovery you do have the constant recovery from lefties. Imo Close Combat seems more fitting as you guarantee 2OHKO both Blissey and Empoleon where as this wasn't the case before. I haven't calced for other Pokemon but i'm sure the dmg roles may come into place elsewhere too. It also hits Cobalion slightly harder than Flamethrower too.
Next I feel like Taunt over Flamethrower would be really nice for your squad vs bulkier match-ups especially when your team has a lot to deal with steel types. Taunt helps your stall match-up and keeping rocks on the field vs certain defog users. It also helps vs Hippo which can otherwise Slack Off stall your clanging scales. This helps you break it much easier and can disable whirlwind for you to get in Scizor to set-up and also break. This of course makes you more vulnerable to Scizor however Rotom-H helps alleviate that.
Larry (Kommo-o) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 158 SpA / 98 Spe
Rash Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Clanging Scales
- Taunt
- Close Combat

Overall really cool squad you have and I think these changes address a lot of your problems without creating too many new threats. I haven't explicitly solved your Nidoking issue but you do now have Rotom-H to melt it with Overheat or if Klefki gets in it can Magnet Rise. So it's still quite shaky, as removing your Zera does open the door up more for bulky waters but you have Spikes and Toxic to handle them. Other than that only other thing I would say to add is a full importable as it helps out a lot. I have both versions below for you with my changes and for your original squad, so simply add it to your Rmt and change up the name if you want. Lemme know what you think, all feedback appreciated whether good or bad ^_^


Thanks for the kind words! Definitely appreciate the time and effort you put into this rate and the suggested changes you have here. Love how you've tried to address the things that I mentioned within the RMT like the Mamoswine issue and the Fatter build issue. Taunt on Kommo-o has been nice to help with the fatter builds for sure! Currently in the middle of some testing with your changes and while I think you've done a great job addressing my previous team issues, I feel like some new issues have arisen. First, there now is a big Fighting type weakness, mons like Terrakion and Infernape have free reign to pump out powerful Close Combat's and Nasty Plot Infernape and Lucario are massive threats now. I've also found Hydreigon to be active in using it's fire move because the only switchin being Klefki is obvious. I can play around it but that matchup feels shakier for sure. I also think the matchup against electric types like Mega Manectric and Zeraora is a little shakier too particularly Zera. I still have had success with the changes you made as I won a room tour with it, so I'll continue to play around with it and report back at a later date. Again, I appreciate the time and effort put in to this, thanks!
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the kind words! Definitely appreciate the time and effort you put into this rate and the suggested changes you have here. Love how you've tried to address the things that I mentioned within the RMT like the Mamoswine issue and the Fatter build issue. Taunt on Kommo-o has been nice to help with the fatter builds for sure! Currently in the middle of some testing with your changes and while I think you've done a great job addressing my previous team issues, I feel like some new issues have arisen. First, there now is a big Fighting type weakness, mons like Terrakion and Infernape have free reign to pump out powerful Close Combat's and Nasty Plot Infernape and Lucario are massive threats now. I've also found Hydreigon to be active in using it's fire move because the only switchin being Klefki is obvious. I can play around it but that matchup feels shakier for sure. I also think the matchup against electric types like Mega Manectric and Zeraora is a little shakier too particularly Zera. I still have had success with the changes you made as I won a room tour with it, so I'll continue to play around with it and report back at a later date. Again, I appreciate the time and effort put in to this, thanks!
Completely agree with you here, realised it opens up a lot of issues. We have discussed some stuff in PM's with keeping Malt over Klefki which covers most of these with the exception being NP Lucario. But using a Body Slam set instead. Glad you had success with the original rmt I made, and has actually functioned well. Let me know how testing goes. Really appreciate the feedback ^_^
 

vivalospride

can’t rest in peace cause they diggin me
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Hey YouthBerry, good to see you and this is a pretty fun looking team for sure. I used to spam Minior unironically when I was super trash at this game and I always thought it was a pretty cool mon so I can def appreciate this rmt for what it is. I think this team can tear up the ladder but I also think it has plenty of flaws which you seem to think as well haha. The fat matchup isn't really as bad as you say it is considering how good zera's matchup is vs fat, but I do still think it's an issue. While the Scizor matchup is extremely shaky with -def zera being the primary switch in. I also think AV Metagross is pretty meh as there are so many better pursuit users atm and I think the role compression coulda been done a lot better here. No ghost resist is also meh, although ghosts have been on the decline a bit recently. Either way ik this team isn't supposed to be taken too too seriously but I still would like to make a version of it and try to make it as optimal as possible so let's see. Also, I apologize if this is messy, I'm gonna do a different format than usual because my thought process towards this rate was like really difficult to explain the way I usually do.

First thing I did:
- I compressed Metagross + Scizor into just Scizor basically. I did CB Scizor with Pursuit to do Metagross's role as a pursuit trapper for it and basically just giving me a free slot to work with.

After that:
- I did SR Krookodile > Kommo-o to give a ghost resist, more reliable volt blocker, and fast taunt. I liked this here because it gave opportunities to add other mons and it also checks Bisharp which is muy importante. Dark types are so good rn lmao.
Krookodile @ Dread Plate
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt


- I did Tentacruel > Minior because it gives a super reliable Scizor + Cobalion check while giving tspikes to pair with Krook's taunt and Zera's movepool to form a pretty decent fat matchup. This also gives the opportunity to run a more offensive malt set which will be explained later on. Tenta also just has super good synergy with malt as a steel/fairy answer. Set is to outspeed Rotom-H and everything slower, while taking less from shit like bish knock w/ zmove (there's also just no other z move on the team so wynaut).
Tentacruel @ Icium Z
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 144 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Haze
- Toxic Spikes


- In the empty slot I decided scarf nape worked really well as another bish/sciz check and mainly as speed control/revenge killer. This also forms a good U-Turn core with sciz and just helping take care of steels in general for malt and tspikes to flourish. Set is standard.
Infernape @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Gunk Shot


Smaller changes:
- With the changes I've made this team sorta lacks a wincon so doing DD malt only makes sense. It doesn't need to be this super supportive set anymore after the changes so going standard DD felt like a good thing to do.
- Life Orb > Ebelt on Zera is to pressure common checks such as malt and amoonguss that might give malt a hard time sweeping. Basically just for a higher damage output.
- Made the Scizor spread outspeed keys cause keys can be annoying for malt, no reason not to creep it here really but at the same time it's really not a big deal.


Zion (Zeraora) @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Grass Knot

Cora (Altaria-Mega) @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Frustration
- Roost
- Earthquake

Tate (Scizor) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- U-turn
- Pursuit

Krookodile @ Dread Plate
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt

Tentacruel @ Icium Z
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 144 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Haze
- Toxic Spikes

Infernape @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Gunk Shot

Yeah ik this isn't supposed to be some like metaslave team you're posting but I wanted to make it as optimal as I could regardless. I think this team is pretty cool and through the games I've played with it it's been pretty fun too after the changes. I hope you have fun and try it out, lmk how it goes. Lati matchup might be a bit annoying but if it really gets out of hand you can do Punishment on scarf ape > gunk shot or something but I think the matchup is fine as it is regardless.
 
Hey YouthBerry, good to see you and this is a pretty fun looking team for sure. I used to spam Minior unironically when I was super trash at this game and I always thought it was a pretty cool mon so I can def appreciate this rmt for what it is. I think this team can tear up the ladder but I also think it has plenty of flaws which you seem to think as well haha. The fat matchup isn't really as bad as you say it is considering how good zera's matchup is vs fat, but I do still think it's an issue. While the Scizor matchup is extremely shaky with -def zera being the primary switch in. I also think AV Metagross is pretty meh as there are so many better pursuit users atm and I think the role compression coulda been done a lot better here. No ghost resist is also meh, although ghosts have been on the decline a bit recently. Either way ik this team isn't supposed to be taken too too seriously but I still would like to make a version of it and try to make it as optimal as possible so let's see. Also, I apologize if this is messy, I'm gonna do a different format than usual because my thought process towards this rate was like really difficult to explain the way I usually do.

First thing I did:
- I compressed Metagross + Scizor into just Scizor basically. I did CB Scizor with Pursuit to do Metagross's role as a pursuit trapper for it and basically just giving me a free slot to work with.

After that:
- I did SR Krookodile > Kommo-o to give a ghost resist, more reliable volt blocker, and fast taunt. I liked this here because it gave opportunities to add other mons and it also checks Bisharp which is muy importante. Dark types are so good rn lmao.
Krookodile @ Dread Plate
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt


- I did Tentacruel > Minior because it gives a super reliable Scizor + Cobalion check while giving tspikes to pair with Krook's taunt and Zera's movepool to form a pretty decent fat matchup. This also gives the opportunity to run a more offensive malt set which will be explained later on. Tenta also just has super good synergy with malt as a steel/fairy answer. Set is to outspeed Rotom-H and everything slower, while taking less from shit like bish knock w/ zmove (there's also just no other z move on the team so wynaut).
Tentacruel @ Icium Z
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 144 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Haze
- Toxic Spikes


- In the empty slot I decided scarf nape worked really well as another bish/sciz check and mainly as speed control/revenge killer. This also forms a good U-Turn core with sciz and just helping take care of steels in general for malt and tspikes to flourish. Set is standard.
Infernape @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Gunk Shot


Smaller changes:
- With the changes I've made this team sorta lacks a wincon so doing DD malt only makes sense. It doesn't need to be this super supportive set anymore after the changes so going standard DD felt like a good thing to do.
- Life Orb > Ebelt on Zera is to pressure common checks such as malt and amoonguss that might give malt a hard time sweeping. Basically just for a higher damage output.
- Made the Scizor spread outspeed keys cause keys can be annoying for malt, no reason not to creep it here really but at the same time it's really not a big deal.


Zion (Zeraora) @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Grass Knot

Cora (Altaria-Mega) @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Frustration
- Roost
- Earthquake

Tate (Scizor) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- U-turn
- Pursuit

Krookodile @ Dread Plate
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt

Tentacruel @ Icium Z
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 144 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Haze
- Toxic Spikes

Infernape @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Gunk Shot

Yeah ik this isn't supposed to be some like metaslave team you're posting but I wanted to make it as optimal as I could regardless. I think this team is pretty cool and through the games I've played with it it's been pretty fun too after the changes. I hope you have fun and try it out, lmk how it goes. Lati matchup might be a bit annoying but if it really gets out of hand you can do Punishment on scarf ape > gunk shot or something but I think the matchup is fine as it is regardless.
Want to start off by saying thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to read the RMT for the time you put into this rate and the suggestions you made! I also loved your Minior story haha. I have no problem with you changing mons and completely changing the identity of the team if you feel it betters the team. But you took what is essentially a meme team, and tried to make it more traditional but left it suffering from many crippling flaws:

First, you already talked about it but the Latias matchup is rough, it's not just annoying, it's rough. There is no immediate answer to CM Latias on this team you posted, and it's like you aren't giving it free turns thanks to Tentacruel and Infernape. Multiple Latias sets run through this team, including CM Electrium-Z, 3 attacks + Roost with any of Life Orb/Soul Dew/Z-move, and more. CB Scizor is not a consistent check to Latias and can really only remove Latias after it's either -2 or locked into a Draco or Psychic on the scarf sets. Even your idea of using Punishment on Infernape is flimsy as Infernape isn't switching in consistently meaning I'd often be down a mon before bringing Infernape in, and even with a CM up for Latias, Punishment only does 67.5 - 80.1%. When you add in that Latias is so prevelent on both ladder and in tournament play, you're leaving the team open to getting bullied by it consistently.

You also have no answer to Primarina at all with this team you suggested. I mean Scizor and Tentacuel can switch into moonblast defensively, but can't do much back. Scizor gets outsped by specs Primarina and has a good chance to be 2HKO'd by the resisted move while obviously failing to OHKO back. Tentacruel can eat the STAB moves but fears Psychic, and even if it does switch into Moonblast or Scald/Hydro Pump, it can't do anything back besides scald. I get that Zeraora can revenge it, but Krookodile and Choice Scarf Infernape give it free opportunies to wreak havoc.

You also failed to address the lack of ability to break stall/fat teams which you acknowledged was an issue as I did in the RMT. A simple Amoongus on the fat/stall team renders every hope against stall useless with the team you posted.

Look, I realize this may come across harsh, and that's not my intent as I did appreciate your thoughts and suggestions! Thank you but I just don't agree that you optimized this squad, and you completely changed the makeup of the team while attempting.
 

vivalospride

can’t rest in peace cause they diggin me
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Want to start off by saying thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to read the RMT for the time you put into this rate and the suggestions you made! I also loved your Minior story haha. I have no problem with you changing mons and completely changing the identity of the team if you feel it betters the team. But you took what is essentially a meme team, and tried to make it more traditional but left it suffering from many crippling flaws:

First, you already talked about it but the Latias matchup is rough, it's not just annoying, it's rough. There is no immediate answer to CM Latias on this team you posted, and it's like you aren't giving it free turns thanks to Tentacruel and Infernape. Multiple Latias sets run through this team, including CM Electrium-Z, 3 attacks + Roost with any of Life Orb/Soul Dew/Z-move, and more. CB Scizor is not a consistent check to Latias and can really only remove Latias after it's either -2 or locked into a Draco or Psychic on the scarf sets. Even your idea of using Punishment on Infernape is flimsy as Infernape isn't switching in consistently meaning I'd often be down a mon before bringing Infernape in, and even with a CM up for Latias, Punishment only does 67.5 - 80.1%. When you add in that Latias is so prevelent on both ladder and in tournament play, you're leaving the team open to getting bullied by it consistently.

You also have no answer to Primarina at all with this team you suggested. I mean Scizor and Tentacuel can switch into moonblast defensively, but can't do much back. Scizor gets outsped by specs Primarina and has a good chance to be 2HKO'd by the resisted move while obviously failing to OHKO back. Tentacruel can eat the STAB moves but fears Psychic, and even if it does switch into Moonblast or Scald/Hydro Pump, it can't do anything back besides scald. I get that Zeraora can revenge it, but Krookodile and Choice Scarf Infernape give it free opportunies to wreak havoc.

You also failed to address the lack of ability to break stall/fat teams which you acknowledged was an issue as I did in the RMT. A simple Amoongus on the fat/stall team renders every hope against stall useless with the team you posted.

Look, I realize this may come across harsh, and that's not my intent as I did appreciate your thoughts and suggestions! Thank you but I just don't agree that you optimized this squad, and you completely changed the makeup of the team while attempting.
Don't feel bad about coming across harsh because I'll definitely come across harsh here myself. The notion that lati just runs through this team is literally just wrong. Zera can revenge kill with chip/help scout for elec z, malt is a soft check, and CB Scizor is 100% "immediate CM Lati counterplay". Nape even helps the Lati matchup by U-Turning on it to give Scizor free trapping opportunities. The only thing it comes in for free on and forces out is Tenta, the matchup is shaky but it's far from what you're making it out to be.

As for the Primarina matchup you're talking about, unfortunately not every team runs Empoleon, Blissey, or in your case... AV Metagross, and for that I apologize. But it's not that difficult to play around, even coming in on Knock from Krook cripples it quite a bit and the things it actually reliably comes in on both have U-Turn which just gets it chipped and gives you momentum. Idk what you're talm bout tbqh.

As for the fat matchup, I'll admit the m/u is still a little annoying but to say "You also failed to address the lack of ability to break stall/fat teams which you acknowledged was an issue as I did in the RMT" is insane. Zera + Taunt on Krook + Tspikes on Tenta + CB Scizor mind games with Blissey is far from a bad stall matchup. Zera is a stallbreaker and idk why you keep calling it not a stallbreaker, it literally has cc + gknot + elec stab... Amoonguss stall is annoying but it's not like it's impossible to outplay with it having a lot of shit to deal with in checking CB Scizor and Zera at the same time, as well as dealing with Liquid Ooze from Tenta and scald burns. This matchup isn't undoable and the stall matchup is fine, calm down lmao.

As for the make up of the team, you don't have a building process. I have no fuckin clue what you built around and it's definitely not Minior considering this is what you said about it "This is a mon that I just slapped on the team as a potential offensive sweeper". Yes I did change the make up of a team you called trash like 5 different times in this RMT, if you have a problem with it maybe show me and other raters what you actually built around and what you were actually trying to go for with this team. Considering the fact that you have no teambuilding process, idk how you want me to judge what exactly you were trying to go for.

Sorry if this comes off as harsh. Good RMT, I like you.
 
Don't feel bad about coming across harsh because I'll definitely come across harsh here myself. The notion that lati just runs through this team is literally just wrong. Zera can revenge kill with chip/help scout for elec z, malt is a soft check, and CB Scizor is 100% "immediate CM Lati counterplay". Nape even helps the Lati matchup by U-Turning on it to give Scizor free trapping opportunities. The only thing it comes in for free on and forces out is Tenta, the matchup is shaky but it's far from what you're making it out to be.

As for the Primarina matchup you're talking about, unfortunately not every team runs Empoleon, Blissey, or in your case... AV Metagross, and for that I apologize. But it's not that difficult to play around, even coming in on Knock from Krook cripples it quite a bit and the things it actually reliably comes in on both have U-Turn which just gets it chipped and gives you momentum. Idk what you're talm bout tbqh.

As for the fat matchup, I'll admit the m/u is still a little annoying but to say "You also failed to address the lack of ability to break stall/fat teams which you acknowledged was an issue as I did in the RMT" is insane. Zera + Taunt on Krook + Tspikes on Tenta + CB Scizor mind games with Blissey is far from a bad stall matchup. Zera is a stallbreaker and idk why you keep calling it not a stallbreaker, it literally has cc + gknot + elec stab... Amoonguss stall is annoying but it's not like it's impossible to outplay with it having a lot of shit to deal with in checking CB Scizor and Zera at the same time, as well as dealing with Liquid Ooze from Tenta and scald burns. This matchup isn't undoable and the stall matchup is fine, calm down lmao.

As for the make up of the team, you don't have a building process. I have no fuckin clue what you built around and it's definitely not Minior considering this is what you said about it "This is a mon that I just slapped on the team as a potential offensive sweeper". Yes I did change the make up of a team you called trash like 5 different times in this RMT, if you have a problem with it maybe show me and other raters what you actually built around and what you were actually trying to go for with this team. Considering the fact that you have no teambuilding process, idk how you want me to judge what exactly you were trying to go for.

Sorry if this comes off as harsh. Good RMT, I like you.
We're obviously going to have to agree to disagree because Latias genuinely has a good matchup against the team you posted in my eyes, and has a good chance to run through it with multiple sets and decent gameplay. +1 Latias with Z-move can blow back that Scizor, Hp Fire Variations which are popular can blow back that Scizor. Then you mention Zeraora being able to revenge it, that's true but the opponent can also simply switch out of the Zera matchup without consequence and potentially roost on Tenta or a CC or Flare Blitz locked Infernape. Mega Altaria is a soft check too but again is far from consistent as it has a good chance to get 2HKO'd after rocks by non-life orb or Soul Dew Psychic. All can contribute no doubt, but the matchup against Latias is shaky at best, it's far from consistent and yes I have tested.

Primarina matchup is what it is, even with AV Metagross or an Empoleon it can be tough handling it. I don't think you made the matchup any easier though and I made some changes in testing to help. I also disagree that Zeraora is a stallbreaker, it's can put in work if you make good predictions with it but it generally falls flat due to a lack of power that means it gets toxiced or burned after it fails to KO something I mean Alomomola can tank Plasma Fists easy, and toxic, then protect, and then switch out to something else like a Mega Aggron or Amoongus. Stall doesn't have an issue handling Zeraora despite it's coverage being able to potentially punch holes. The additions you had to potentially help the stall matchup are slightly beneficial, but still completely fail to break stall. What does stall care about Taunt Krook when it can potentially cycle between Regenerator mons and potentially burn? T-spikes are useless against Amoongus stall etc. It's just not consistent.

I understand that my team building process was rushed, unconventional, and that the team composition was unique and that it is tough to rate. I shared the strengths and weaknesses of the team, and thought maybe others could figure out ways to fill the gaps. That's exactly what the rater before you did! I have no problem radical changes like you proposed, but when you do so and call it "optimized" but still leave many of the same weaknesses and open up others then I feel like I'm fair to question the changes. It’s the same idea as getting someone to look over your essay to fix any errors, but they re-write most of it and yet it still has similar errors and now there’s other errors. I hope we can find some common ground, I like you and I genuinely appreciate you putting in the time and effort. Cheers!
 
Last edited:

vivalospride

can’t rest in peace cause they diggin me
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
We're obviously going to have to agree to disagree because Latias genuinely has a good matchup against the team you posted in my eyes, and has a good chance to run through it with multiple sets and decent gameplay. +1 Latias with Z-move can blow back that Scizor, Hp Fire Variations which are popular can blow back that Scizor. Then you mention Zeraora being able to revenge it, that's true but the opponent can also simply switch out of the Zera matchup without consequence and potentially roost on Tenta or a CC or Flare Blitz locked Infernape. Mega Altaria is a soft check too but again is far from consistent as it has a good chance to get 2HKO'd after rocks by non-life orb or Soul Dew Psychic. All can contribute no doubt, but the matchup against Latias is shaky at best, it's far from consistent and yes I have tested.

Primarina matchup is what it is, even with AV Metagross or an Empoleon it can be tough handling it. I don't think you made the matchup any easier though and I made some changes in testing to help. I also disagree that Zeraora is a stallbreaker, it's can put in work if you make good predictions with it but it generally falls flat due to a lack of power that means it gets toxiced or burned after it fails to KO something I mean Alomomola can tank Plasma Fists easy, and toxic, then protect, and then switch out to something else like a Mega Aggron or Amoongus. Stall doesn't have an issue handling Zeraora despite it's coverage being able to potentially punch holes. The additions you had to potentially help the stall matchup are slightly beneficial, but still completely fail to break stall. What does stall care about Taunt Krook when it can potentially cycle between Regenerator mons and potentially burn? T-spikes are useless against Amoongus stall etc. It's just not consistent.

I understand that my team building process was rushed, unconventional, and that the team composition was unique and that it is tough to rate. I shared the strengths and weaknesses of the team, and thought maybe others could figure out ways to fill the gaps. That's exactly what the rater before you did! I have no problem radical changes like you proposed, but when you do so and call it "optimized" but still leave many of the same weaknesses and open up others then I feel like I'm fair to question the changes. It’s the same idea as getting someone to look over your essay to fix any errors, but they re-write most of it and yet it still has similar errors and now there’s other errors. I hope we can find some common ground, I like you and I genuinely appreciate you putting in the time and effort. Cheers!
I mean I do literally say the lati matchup is shaky, you're just blowing it out of proportion. Lati is far from unbeatable and I already said my piece on that and idt you really added anything to your argument that you didn't already say. I agree it's shaky, just don't pretend the team is shit cause it just hard loses to lati when it literally doesn't and there's counterplay lmao.

Prima matchup is like so weird of a thing to hold onto like you are because it's prima. It has 2 reliable switch ins in the tier and it's not like any team w/o one of them is just auto bad. Idk why tf you think i'd rate something, take away AV metagross, and then be like OH NO THE PRIMA MATCHUP. Nah the prima matchup is fine and even if I didn't necessarily make it better... does it matter? Prima isn't in your threatlist and the matchup is fine as it is. So ??? idgi. Using this as a reason for the rate not being optimal is like so random and confusing.

Yes you did give a threatlist and say what the team struggled with, but that has nothing to do with what I said. I said if you were against harsh changes then you should have said so in the rate or at least provide what exactly you built around. I'm fine with the rate I did and I'm fine with you questioning it, 100%, however I simply don't agree with the statements you're making.

Saying Taunt doesn't help against fat is actually absurd and I'm not even gonna argue with that. Zera + Krook + Tspikes + CB Scizor and if you really want you can do refresh on malt or some shit... it's enough to beat stall and I tested it from the 1600s to the 1700s too so don't act like I'm saying this baselessly LOL.



Like I said I'm fine with you questioning the changes, I just don't agree with them and I'm confident the team is more optimal than the rmt. If you have problems with the team being rated seriously and pass it off as a meme... why exactly did you rmt it? Cheers, big fan.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top