Nominations of others :
Hippopotas Usually Useless -> Unranked
Agree
Well I dont think we have to let rank mons who are just bad and without any niches. Sand isn't viable anymore, we lose all our abusers bar Duggy-A, Abomasnow scarf stops it totally and even hippopotas is in itself a bad sand setter which struggles between eviolite and tiny sandsandstrom or smooth rock and die very quickly. A sand team is bad in itself and Duggy-A prefer getting good partners to shot down what stops it than a boost in power than it doesn't really need. Add hippopotas in a team makes only the teambuild weaker than it's without. Lets don't be too conservative about ranking bad mon and lets unrank hippo.
Silvally-Ice Usually Useless -> Somewhere in C
Meh
Well, I dont like too much the Usually Useless rank so I could maybe be agree with that but lol Silvally-Ice is really really bad. The main issue about Vally-Ice is there are lot of mons which does exactly the same job than it but just in better. If you decide to playing your Vally-Ice , you lose your vally slot to defog and than hurts already a bit. So the vally has to be very good to have a reason to play it. There are plenty mons in ZU which are set up sweepers such as Leafeon, other Vallys, Monferno, Ninjask, even Beartic in ice type, etc. Why play Silvally-Ice instead of them ? It's not only just handicapping for your team, it's also far harder to set up due to its bad defensive typing and it is as well far more easy to RK (hey rapidash). Run Ninjask, Vally-Fighting SD or Leafeon and you will have the same results but just better and without weaken too much your teambuild. I dont really mind if Vally-Ice is finally ranked in C rank but i dont see either the reason why.
Grumpig A+ -> A
Agree
Yeah, that's something i think for ages and i'm agree grumpig isn't on the A+ level anymore. On the recent meta trends, czim did a good list how what is problematic for the pig, toxic spikes are everywhere and weaken it very a lot, it cannot really pass bronzor without specific sets, kecleon is almost a free switch, dark moves are everywhere (and grumpig cannot handle the colbur), i add too that almost everyvally runs u-turn nowadays. Grumpig is a mon which hates switching and be chipped and we are in a meta where we like switching a lot. Its staying power is pretty low actually and it helps mons what grumpig normally checks. Monferno SD Jolly at +2 can one shot Grumpig after SR with its Z-Move, same for Rapidash which can deal a grumpig chipped, Rotom-Frost also weaken easily with a Thunderbolt doing +/- 35% without leftovers recovery. Recyle Mago Berry isn't the same thing than a Recovery, that costs you the item and sub to be easily on the range. Of course, these things aren't new but it's far more annoying for grumpig than in the past due to how easily it's weaken. It doesnt accomplish as well its role to check a big part of the meta as it should do. You will enjoy better to have a Kecleon Recover to have the SR or an AV one to dont be as passive as grumpig is sometimes. I feel when i'm battling a grumpig than 50% of the time it does recycle, 45% substitute, a grumpig in the opposite team is sometimes just free switch land, i'm happy to see one when i play lurantis. It suffers too for a big 4mss in wanting Psychic/Psyshock/FB/CM/Recyle/Sub/Taunt/Heal Bell/Shadow Ball in a single set, an item syndrom in wanting mago berry, leftovers and colbur, even sometimes a spread syndrom to increase its staying power or its offensive presence... And ofc if you could get glutonny and thick fat on a single set it would be cool too. Grumpig stays a good mon overall but it's simply not anymore on the same level than the other A+ mons.
Shiftry B+ -> A-
Agree
Well, the drop wasn't justified for me either. If I recognised the new popular Vally forms are quite annoying, dont forget how stab Koff is threaten nowadays. It gets rid easily of the common Mareanie + Bronzor core and Silvally doesn't have recovery (and has to come very often on the board to defog). It's personnally one of the most threaten mon I dont like to face at the teampreview and i know i have to play very carefully to dont lose my balanced core. It's also a mon which is very strong against all playstyles, it's quite uncommon to be noted. I tested recently the specs version of Shiftry and the pressure it exerces on the opponent's team is just insane. Bulky Vallys are proprely 2HKO, Mareanie OHKO, offensive checks are just shot down with SR damages. You can even run Defog in last fourth slot to compress the roles. I dont think Shiftry is less viable than before, I dont feel it's less good or less threaten. A- is still justified.
Ninjask C+ -> B+
Eww not that high but agree for a rise. B-/B
C+ is underanked. Czim once again presented some points to explain why (notably the lycanroc departure, etc), I will just add on this subject how much it lackes of real common counter actually. Even stuff like Mareanie is theorically one shot by Z-Dig after SD and other crucial counters can also be beaten after some chips. It's also a mon which doesn't need to set up to be useful and that's why I feel it's more easy to incorporate in a team (due to its speed notably) than stuff such as Swoobat which is also a threaten set up Sweeper but which exists only to boost its stats. It means even if it requires support, it's one of the set up sweepers the most splashable. Its cb set is useful when you just need speedcontrol. B+ is a bit too high but i'm strongly agree for a rise in B- or even in B.
Lumineon Unranked -> Usually Useless/C-
Disagree
No, Lumineon isn't one of the best defogger in the tier. There is absolutely no reason to use it over Silvally-Water and even in the situations where you want to use an offensive vally, Lumineon is one of the worst choice. In ZU, we have Frosttom, Togetic, Combusken, Rotom-Fan, Shiftry, Vullaby, Prinpulp, Vibrava, Lurantis, Volbeat, Murkrow, even Chatot/Oricorio on a locked set to remove stealth rocks. Its water immunity is almost useless in a tier where the water spam exists only in rain (which have a lot of answers against lumineon anyway, even golduck) and became less good than it was before, it's not the only one to get a pivot move either (hey vullaby, frosttom, rotom-fan, volbeat, vibrava, etc). Its only way to have recovery is leftovers and koff is everywhere, its bulk is very bad (69/76/86). No reason to play this mon. Keep it Unranked.
Oranguru Usually Useless -> C-
Quite Agree
Well there is no much reason to use it over Kecleon/Bouffalant but i played it and i recognize it has a small niche in being a bulky AV able to weaken several mons than Bouffa or Kec cannot such as the cores Mareanie/Bronzor, Tangela/Muk, etc. However, it cannot stop things such as boomburst chatot (Bouffa can and it's nice) or doesnt have the speed control of Kec or the recovery to be enough effective. It's very easy to chip it and it hates switching a lot, its staying power is quite meh. It's not trash tier but it doesnt shine either. It has some problems but it's effective well played though. It brings a decent support to the team and hits hard enough to pressure the opposite squad ( its coverage is perfect btw) and destroys common cores. It's far more viable than several mons in C- (hey Lopunny and Wartotle) so i dont see any reasons to dont let be ranked somewhere there.
Replays about :
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https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-789993823
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-789996743
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-789999193
My noms (only for rise, I will do an other post for drop because well, it will be too much otherwise) :
Mareanie A -> A+
I think we can rank Mareanie at the place which deserved right now. It became the new signature of ZU. Have a balanced, a bulky stall, a semi-stall without Mareanie just looks weird and bad build, it's the meta antimeta toy which centralizes the meta in decentralizing it. It provides in any one slot a Ferno switch-in, a Combusken switch-in, a Rapidash switch in, can deal with lurantis physical no koff version, a way to deal with cursemuk, prevents subviggy to sweep, bring toxic spikes to weaken the opposite team and in the same time the poison typing to remove the opposite toxic spikes, a Kec soft switch in, the ability to switch on a big part of the more common mons (and Mareanie likes switching a lot), in threating an opposite switch with scald/koff. To be short, it deals with the middle of the meta and influences how the battle is going to happen, even if it's not on floor. Of course that's not that difficult to threaten or pressure it, its bulk is very good without being amazing (especially when it's koffed), but it doesnt remove anything about its qualities. We are at a moment where building a team without Mareanie has become an exercice. I think to rank Mareanie in A+ reflects fully the impact it has in the meta right now, far more than the rest of A mon.
Silvally Dragon & Fighting A- -> A
The facility you have in splashing them in whatever team in defogger deserved the A rank. Even with all the flaws they have, you rarely end a core without one of them. They are both bulky defogger offensive, bulky pivot offensive, they pressure the opponent team with a strong move or just in pivoting/toxic them. They are decent checks to send against a good amount of threats. Vally-Fighting is one of the rare mon to be able to deal with both vigo version. Of course, these things aren't new but it's really appreciable to have that in a single slot especially now, to send frail attackers, to pressure easily with DM, to weaken annoying stuff with toxic. These two forms are the best and the more used vally forms (bar water). The A rank reflects better their viability and their splashability at the moment.
Lurantis B+ -> A-
I wont be against an other Lurantis rise seeing how it's good right now. Except stuff like Muk, there is not really thing which come on it. It's our best grass types with tang at the moment and its ability to force switch is quite enjoyable at the moment. Every time I face it in a battle i pray to face the defog version because it's the more manageable of all but lol that stays really difficult to switch into. If it runs Leaf storm i basically lose a mon every time I face it, the resttalk version isn't bad either because if mareanie is koffed it gets rid of it without scaring burn or poison. It can win the dual against Kec with good mindgames, against vigo if enough superpower/leaf storm, and pressure 2/3 of mons in A- to S. A- is a fine place for it.
Mawile B+ -> A-
See my precedent posts on the topic. Nothing has changed. Mawile, with the departure of torterra and the arriving of Kecleon became an amazing rocker able to check a good amount of threats. If it cleary has a lot of flaws, it's still one of our best rocker in the tier and which helps the teambuilding in various ways in giving sr, checks to threaten mons such as shiftry, kecleon, physical sweepers and in supporting the team with koff/taunt/etc. It's slightly better than it was before the shifts and i add its sheer force set is annoying to face if it runs the good coverage moves.
Rampardos B- -> B
I nominate Rampardos not much for its TR set (even if it's really good) but overall for its SR and Scarf sets which are both ridiculous to face. If before mons such as Torterra did shadow to lots of rockers, now the space is a bit more free. Rampardos became a good alternative to Golem simply thanks to its ridiculous strength and its coverage which helps it also a bit. Rampardos doesn't have any real counter and now Torterra is gone, it doesnt have to run ice beam and can just have fun to catch bronzor and tangela with a strong fire blast. Every time you send in on the board, a mon in the opposite team dies. Rampardos is also a fanstatic lead anti-lead actually if you run the Mold Breaker Sash set because it one shot Shuckle and Crustle with Head Smash which prevents the Sticky web/Spikes to be setted. Surf meme can be added to one shot offensive golem. 58 speed is not a bad speed it actually because it allows to outspeed the whole slow range of ZU mons. Scarf Rock slide is scaring to face as well even if not as good as its SR set. Rampardos is a more threaten SR setter than Golem, prevents stuff like Tangela/Bronzor to be safe switch and in pressuring a lot the opposite team with just the small support of u-turn/volt switch. Rock Slide is generally spammable without doing prediction btw.
Raticate B- -> B
Eww I tested it recently and it's a monster. Raticate hits as hard as our dear Stoutland, forever in our hearts. The number of things which is able to switch in correctly on this face is reduced to Tangela. It's however better in paper than in practise because it suffers for a big 4mss and it's in glass but the power of Guts Facade dont have to be underestimate. Sucker Punch/U-turn provides too a big support of speed control/pivoting. Now the meta is slower, I feel it's the good moment to let it climb the VR. Raticate is a threaten mon, never underestimate it.
Electrode C+ -> B-
No Manectric doesn't only mean a happy Zebstrika but also a happy Electrode. If before the only viable set of Electrode was the taunt screen set (decent set btw), it enjoys now running pivot sets like its partner Zebstrika. The advantage it gets over Zeb is obviously Soundproof which helps against chatot, its speed (outspeed Ada Beartic under hail, ada crustle at +2 and Butterfree at +1) and it hits harder than Zeb thanks to the Modest nature. Timid is also an option if you want to outspeed huntail ada/crustle jolly at +2 and scarf ferno but it's not mandatory imo. To be short, Electrode is an alternative to Zebstrika very viable and it's far more useful and splashable than the whole C tier list.
Silvally-Poison C+ -> B
I know it's a pretty big jump but it's globally deserved. Silvally-Poison is one of the five best Vally just after Fighting/Dragon/Water and Dark. It wasn't really good before because it had some flaws which still exist now such as lose the dual against almost every rocker in ZU, lose against common threats (Lycanroc + Torterra SD when there were still in ZU), etc. However, there are two things which make Silvally-Poison better. The first one is it's probably the best Vally to counter Kecleon which is a big advantage in this meta, the second one is it removes toxic spikes & be not poisonned by them. It's really important to considere this when we know how often Mareanie is in the teams and how easily a Silvally Poisonned is weaken. Silvally-Poison is probably now the Vally which has the biggest staying power in ZU and that's something which shouldn't be forgotten when you will choose which vally you will incorporate in your team. It has some big flaws (
be a free switch to golem really sucks) so it needs a bit more support than the other vallys (it needs bronzor for example) but it's still one of the best.
Arbok C -> C+/B-
Arbok is a bit underanked considering how threaten this mon is. Its best set is Coil/Gunk shot/Earthquake/Z-Sucker Punch which allows to get rid of Mareanie/Bronzor quite easily after setting up. Arbok is a set up Sweeper which is difficult to getting rid even offensively because Coil + Intimidate makes it very difficult to RK. If stuff like Poli/Lycan were annoying, they are gone now. Arbok has a je-ne-sais-quoi which makes it really different and never useless in a battle. Intimidate can work to decrease the Atk stat of the opponent, its poison typing to remove toxic spikes, sucker punch to speed control. It's always a mon which I fear to face because i know i can lose if i did the wrong prediction, whatever team i play (except gabite but heee). It's a mon quite difficult to play but very threaten to face.
Vibrava C -> B-
This mon is very decent atm. I was looking for a defoger with recovery which wasn't too weak to golem, I was a bit disappointing because i find nothing and then i realize vibrava exists. And lol, this mon is a gift of god. Recovery + Resists EdgeQuake + defog + resists all Rapidash moves + u-turn. Yeah it's koff weak and very frail without the eviolite but it's simply makes the teambuilding so easy when you play it. If for whatever reason you dont want to bring a vally, take this small beautiful bug which is a dragon and your life is going to be peaceful. Very splashable with a correct support.
Prinpulp Usually Useless -> C
Prinpulp finds its place in rare archetype of teams which needs a lot of mons to work such as Shedistall, compress SR and defog in a single set isn't bad in these situations to free slots. So, yeah, it suffers for a lot of things such as it's really really easily weaken, rely a lot on the eviolite to tank, dont like at all switching and if you lose prinpulp you lose at the same time your setter and your defoger. However, sometimes, that's something you need to end a build and in these situations Prinpulp fits. Before, Sandslash could do that but it's gone and Armaldo very sucks lol. Even if it's not an amazing mon, it has a small niche which allows to be played sometimes in several builds.
Oricorio-Pa'u
Porygon
Weepinbell
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