Resource SM ZU Viability Rankings (VR Changes #375)

[5gen]

​

Welcome to the SM ZU Viability Rankings. In this thread, Pokemon are ranked based on their ability to function within the ZU Metagame. This includes many factors, such as versatility, effectiveness, ability to handle metagame trends, size of niche, and several others. Since these are likely to be highly contested, there are a few rules to abide by:

• Post reasoning. Posts like ‘Furfrou should go to B because it can use Cotton Guard and has Fur Coat’ will be deleted and possibly infracted. You are expected to give sound logic for the nominations you make. Any one-liners will be deleted and possibly infracted.
• Be civil. It doesn’t matter how heavily you disagree with a post, at the end of the day it’s an opinion posted by another person so throwing insults at them isn’t gonna be okay.
• No discussion of future bans, suspects, or metagames. We aren’t gonna rise Seaking because Rotom-Frost may drop, no matter how likely it is. We also won't drop Gourgeist-XL because Pinsir may get tested.
• If you want to nominate a currently unranked Pokemon to be ranked, replays are a requirement. Preferably, these are replays against high level players so that you really show us that this Pokemon can put in work.
• At the same time, do not base your entire argument around replays and usage statistics. It’s important to show why this Pokemon performs, not just that it does.

Pokemon within sub-ranks are ordered alphabetically. The Usually Useless rank holds Pokemon that have a niche, but it is so minimal that it is almost never recommended to use them.

Also, the Pokemon’s names in this thread link to analyses, either uploaded or WIP, or sample sets!

New Pokemon


S Rank
Combusken
Swanna

A Rank

A+
Bronzor
Electivire
Exeggutor
Golem
Komala
Silvally-Dragon

A
Beheeyem
Bouffalant
Crustle
:Gourgeist-Super: Gourgeist-Super
Mareanie
Pinsir
Rotom-Fan
Silvally-Water
Torterra

A-
Altaria
Dusclops
Kadabra
Kecleon
Leafeon
Lickilicky
Mawile
Muk
Pawniard
Poliwrath
Pyukumuku
Raichu
Rapidash
Silvally-Dark
Silvally-Fighting
Simisear

B Rank

B+

Floatzel
Granbull
Marowak
Mr. Mime
Silvally
Simipour
Simisage
Toucannon

B

Avalugg
Bellossom
Camerupt
Chatot
Ditto
Furfrou
Golduck
Machoke
Monferno
Purugly
Sandslash
Sawsbuck
Servine
Silvally-Ground
Shuckle
Vigoroth

B-

Basculin
Bibarel
Cacturne
Carbink
Corsola
Dugtrio
Electrode
Fraxure
Glaceon
Golem-Alola
Jumpluff
Metang
Oricorio-Baille
Rampardos
Raticate
Shiinotic
Silvally-Electric
Silvally-Grass
Silvally-Poison
Swoobat
Volbeat

C Rank

C+

Butterfree
Chimecho
Cradily
Drifblim
Duosion
Dusknoir
Hippopotas
Huntail
Lycanroc-Midnight
Misdreavus
Ninjask
Probopass
Regice
Relicanth
Wishiwashi
Zebstrika

C

Arbok
Armaldo
Beartic
Frogadier
Gabite
:gourgeist-small: Gourgeist-Small
Grimer-Alola
Grumpig
Hakamo-o
Lapras
Murkrow
Natu
Noctowl
Quilladin
Smeargle
Stunfisk
Vibrava
Vullaby

C-

Flareon
Gogoat
Krokorok
Munchlax
Regigigas
Solrock
Trevenant
Wormadam-Trash

D Rank

Usually Useless

Ampharos
Gothitelle
Leavanny
Maractus
Masquerain
Meowstic-F
:meowstic-m: Meowstic-M
Onix
Politoed
Shedinja
Silvally-Fire
Slaking
Togetic
Whirlipede
Zweilous

 

[Yahooboo]

I may not know this meta well, but can I just ask why Unfezant doesn't seem to be on the VR? It seems like this set is pretty decent, around as good as many of the C ranked mons.

Unfezant @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-turn/HP Grass/Roost
- Sky Attack
- Return
- Heat Wave

A Z-Sky Attack from this thing absolutely destroys. With rocks up, it outspeeds and OHKOs CB Stoutland and Guts Ursaring, then it puts Bulk Up Vigoroth easily in range of Return (possibly two if it goes for Bulk Up, depends on roll I think) while Vigoroth needs a BU up to even 2hko Unfezant so it has to have set up beforehand if it has little attack investment. Heat Wave lets it 2HKO physically defensive Mawile and HP Grass lets it 2HKO any Golems which foolishly decide to try setting up rocks on it first. It beats SD Pinsir without Stone Edge 1v1 without even needing to use the Z-Move since Return 2HKOs and Unfezant outspeeds it. In fact, 93 base speed actually outspeeds a pretty decent amount of things - which is the main reason to use this over Toucannon obviously, and it's definitely worth it. Also, for a physical breaker, it's really good at breaking Tangela, of course - It OHKOs it with SSSS if it's specially bulky, and has a decent chance to after rocks if it's physically bulky. Return generally damages switch ins pretty well, and Super Luck can turn games around sometimes.

Of course, maybe the sets for these things I'm looking at are outdated and I'm completely wrong, but surely these qualities are enough for the C ranks? It does, of course, have issues like dying to special attackers and notably not being good vs Rotom-Freeze, as well as usually only being able to use a Flying STAB attack once (although it's awesome when you can force a switch and then start charging Sky Attack up), but it's not exactly awful. Z-Moves were the greatest gift this thing has ever gotten, so its a shame it just got ignored :/

Sorry if this is a stupid nom for some reason, but I tried :P

Calcs:

The calcs

252 Atk Unfezant Supersonic Skystrike (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 264-312 (79 - 93.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Unfezant Supersonic Skystrike (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Stoutland: 325-384 (104.5 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Unfezant Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mawile: 156-184 (51.3 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Unfezant Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Golem: 176-208 (58.4 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Unfezant Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pinsir: 153-180 (56.4 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Pinsir Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Unfezant: 109-129 (36.2 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Unfezant Supersonic Skystrike (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Vigoroth: 241-285 (66.2 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Unfezant Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Vigoroth: 123-145 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Vigoroth Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Unfezant: 109-130 (36.2 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Unfezant Supersonic Skystrike (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ursaring: 378-445 (98.4 - 115.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and toxic damage

 

[Haaku.]

I think it's time to rank the new Pokemon.

UR --> B+
Smeargle is honestly a really good option in this tier. I admittedly haven't played a crazy amount, but it's such a good Sticky Web user and has a Speed tier that actually isn't horrible. It can even pull off offensive Belly Drum + Extreme Speed sets fairly well. Sticky Web in general is an under-appreciated playstyle, and Smeargle forms a fantastic core with Pawniard specifically which can come in on the metagame's defoggers like Rotom-Frost and pressure them with Defiant. I even reckon Smeargle could be ranked higher as its utility offers a unique niche that no other Pokemon can really do at once, but I think we have to see how it truly does in this metagame.

UR --> C/C-
Unfortunately, ZU doesn't get access to Torkoal's Drought, making it a really mediocre option in the metagame. While it has great physical bulk and ability to set up rocks, its typing is pretty bad defensively with a Stealth Rock weakness itself. Not only this, but as a tank, Torkoal has no way of reliable recovery, making it really easy to wear down. It also loses to the metagame's premier special attackers, like Simipour or Kadabra for example. Access to Shell Smash sounds nice in theory too but Torkoal is incredibly slow even for this tier, and finds itself outsped by so many things after a boost. Its offensive limitations are further bolstered by its lack of offensive coverage outside of Fire STAB + Earth Power. Overall, I don't see any reason to use Torkoal over much better physical pivots like Gourgeist-Large, which actually have a serviceable typing and access to solid recovery.

UR --> A-
Dugtrio is honestly so good. It's faster than almost the entire unboosted metagame and its mono Ground typing allows it to beat so many of the metagame's top threats. 100 Attack is solid as well, and Ground STAB means it can take on Mawile, Golem, Kadabra, Monferno, and others. Dugtrio is a great option on offensive teams and bulky offensive teams alike because it's so hard to revenge kill offensively outside of dedicated Choice Scarf users. Dugtrio can run a Z-Move set or a Choice Band set, making it somewhat unpredictable offensively. Dugtrio’s weakness comes from the fact that plenty of Pokemon in the metagame wall it. Torterra and Gourgeist-Large come to mind, as they take very little damage from its stonequake coverage and threaten it with their Grass type STAB moves. Besides this though, Dugtrio is a fantastic tool against offense and for this, I believe A- is appropriate.

I admittedly haven’t played this metagame an insane amount, but I do find it really fun and I’m down to get more into it. Grats on the new banner too! It’s an insane upgrade. Good luck with the tier :)

 

[Eve]

Here's a Pokémon that, looking at the current meta, could do some decent work on Sun teams.

Cherrim!
A lot of people just laugh at Cherrim, but from my testing and calcing it looks like it has potential. Flower Gift is an amazing ability, and while Cherrim's movepool might suck it seems to have just what it needs to make it in ZU.

The Set

Cherrim @ Rockium Z
Ability: Flower Gift
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Petal Blizzard
- Weather Ball
- Rollout
- Growth

Hear me out. Cherrim has respectable enough Special Defense with the Sun up thanks to Flower Gift, giving it some decent opportunities to set up a Growth. After said Growth, it can break quite well. Petal Blizzard is extremely spammable, Weather Ball covers bulky Grasses and Z-Rollout can destroy Rotom-Fan and assorted Fire types with a boost up. While Rotom-Fan does outspeed, Cherrim lives an Air Slash thanks to the Sp.Def boost.

Some Calcs

+2 4 SpA Cherrim Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Gourgeist-Large in Sun: 430-506 (121.4 - 142.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 4 SpA Cherrim Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Torterra in Sun: 442-522 (112.1 - 132.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Flower Gift Cherrim Continental Crush (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Fan in Sun: 376-444 (156 - 184.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Flower Gift Cherrim Continental Crush (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Combusken in Sun: 300-353 (114.9 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Main things it struggles with are Rotom-Frost and Torkoal, it seems. Fast Fire types can also pose an issue. Overall though, it seems like quite an effective balance breaker and potential cleaner. At least worth a C imo.

 

[5gen]

Here's a Pokémon that, looking at the current meta, could do some decent work on Sun teams.

Cherrim!
A lot of people just laugh at Cherrim, but from my testing and calcing it looks like it has potential. Flower Gift is an amazing ability, and while Cherrim's movepool might suck it seems to have just what it needs to make it in ZU.

The Set

Cherrim @ Rockium Z
Ability: Flower Gift
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Petal Blizzard
- Weather Ball
- Rollout
- Growth

Hear me out. Cherrim has respectable enough Special Defense with the Sun up thanks to Flower Gift, giving it some decent opportunities to set up a Growth. After said Growth, it can break quite well. Petal Blizzard is extremely spammable, Weather Ball covers bulky Grasses and Z-Rollout can destroy Rotom-Fan and assorted Fire types with a boost up. While Rotom-Fan does outspeed, Cherrim lives an Air Slash thanks to the Sp.Def boost.

Some Calcs

+2 4 SpA Cherrim Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Gourgeist-Large in Sun: 430-506 (121.4 - 142.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 4 SpA Cherrim Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Torterra in Sun: 442-522 (112.1 - 132.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Flower Gift Cherrim Continental Crush (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Fan in Sun: 376-444 (156 - 184.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Flower Gift Cherrim Continental Crush (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Combusken in Sun: 300-353 (114.9 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Main things it struggles with are Rotom-Frost and Torkoal, it seems. Fast Fire types can also pose an issue. Overall though, it seems like quite an effective balance breaker and potential cleaner. At least worth a C imo.

Set looks interesting and in theory it might put in work in certain matchups, but overall I don't see Cherrim justifying a slot on an already congested playstyle. Weepingbell, which is also unranked, is arguably better than Cherrim on sun due to Chlorophyll and +2 LO Sludge Bomb netting the same KO's. For these reasons, I disagree with ranking Cherrim.

If you want to nominate unranked Pokemon, adding replays which showcase their niche is the best evidence you can have.

 

[Yahooboo]

Weepingbell, which is also unranked,

Actually, it's D rank, but they called it Weebinbell by accident :P

 

[Eve]

Set looks interesting and in theory it might put in work in certain matchups, but overall I don't see Cherrim justifying a slot on an already congested playstyle. Weepingbell, which is also unranked, is arguably better than Cherrim on sun due to Chlorophyll and +2 LO Sludge Bomb netting the same KO's. For these reasons, I disagree with ranking Cherrim.

If you want to nominate unranked Pokemon, adding replays which showcase their niche is the best evidence you can have.

Fair point, Weepinbell is definitely competition for it. I'll try both on sun and see what they bring to the table. Hopefully get some replays while I'm at it.

 

[Xayah]

The first VR update is here! The tier is still shaking from the loss of Altaria, Clefairy, and Swanna, but it's time to show where we're at right now.

First off, I'd like to say that the council has decided to convert D rank into a 'Usually Useless' rank. This is reserved for Pokemon that do have a niche, but this niche is so small that they're not worth using on any serious team.
In addition, the names all Pokemon in the S and A+ rank as well as several in lower ranks now link to pokepastes with sample sets for them. The council hopes that this will make teambuilding considerably easier for newer players. Over time, more of these sets will be added.
Lastly, I will only be offering explanations for the rankings of the new Pokemon. This is a massive change so it's unrealistic to explain every Pokemon and most of them come down to us losing Altaria/Clefairy/Swanna or gaining Smeargle/Dugtrio. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to ask me or anyone else in the council either here, on Discord, or in the PS room.

That's all I've got to say, so here are the changes:

New Pokemon

Dugtrio: Ranked at B+ - Dugtrio is extremely notable for being our only Ground type faster than Rotom-Frost and capable of holding items (aka not Silvally-Ground), allowing it to OHKO the fridge. This gives offensive teams a new tool to force consistent 50/50s against it or easily revenge kill it. Fast Ground-types are also incredibly threatening in general, though our plethora of bulky Grass-types like Tangela, Torterra, and Gourgeist-L prevent it from doing incredible at the moment. Dugtrio is also a massive boon to Sand teams, as both Choice Band and SubToxic + Z-Move sets are very hard to switch into when boosted by Sand Force.

Smeargle: Ranked at A- - Smeargle has singlehandedly boosted Sticky Web teams from 'good' to 'top tier'. Its biggest advantage over other setters is its access to Spore and a good Speed stat, meaning it is incredibly reliable at setting up Webs. Grass-types have gotten even more common with this around, as a Spore immunity is incredibly important now. Needless to say, Smeargle is a force that has to be considered if you don't want to be run over by a Stoutland or an Ursaring under Webs.

Torkoal: Ranked at C - Unfortunately for it, Torkoal doesn't really have a place in our metagame. As we also saw with Sandslash back in January, a slow, bulky Pokemon with no recovery does not become good just because it has Stealth Rock + Rapid Spin. In fact, its defensive set was only marginally considered when ranking this. The focus is more on its Shell Smash set, which is decent at breaking for its teammates but still way too slow to sweep, meaning it is only getting ranked at C.

Rises

Chatot: A -> A+

Silvally-Water: A -> A+

Ursaring: A -> A+

Grumpig: A- -> A

Rapidash: A- -> A

Probopass: B+ -> A-

Raichu: B+ -> A-

Purugly: B -> B+

Servine: B -> B+

Armaldo: B- -> B

Hakamo-o: B- -> B

Murkrow: B- -> B

Silvally-Dragon: B- -> B

Silvally-Grass: C -> B

Oricorio: C+ -> B-

Sawsbuck: C- -> B-

Quilladin: C+ -> B-

Gourgeist: Unranked -> C+

Onix: Usually Useless -> C+

Swoobat: C -> C+

Chinchou: C- -> C

Illumise: Unranked -> C

Natu: Usually Useless -> C

Seaking: C- -> C

Meowstic-F: Unranked -> C-

Raticate: Unranked -> C-

Silvally-Electric: Unranked -> Usually Useless

Drops

Beheeyem: A+ -> A

Pinsir: A+ -> A

Oricorio-E: A -> A-

Gourgeist-L: A -> A-

Leafeon: A -> A-

Shiftry: A -> A-

Roselia: A- -> B+

Lickilicky: A- -> B+

Pyukumuku: A- -> B+

Masquerain B+ -> B

Regice: B+ -> B

Basculin: B -> B-

Leavanny: B -> B-

Silvally: B -> B-

Gabite: B- -> C+

Solrock: B- -> C+

Stunfisk: B- -> C+

Cacturne: B- -> C+

Prinplup: B- -> C+

Silvally-Dark: B- -> C+

Alolan Golem: C -> C-

Politoed: C -> C-

Wormadam-S: C -> C-

Corsola: C -> Usually Useless

Poipole: C- -> Usually Useless

Banette: Usually Useless -> Unranked

Lunatone: Usually Useless -> Unranked

Shiinotic: Usually Useless -> Unranked

 

[Aleccat]

Nominating Lopunny to go from C- to C tier, possibly even C+

Since the D and C tiers merged, the Pokemon at said tiers are quite displaced. This is especially true for Lopunny, who, in this meta, can take on a variety of roles. Armed with an amazing movepool (particularly on the support side) and a solid base 105 Speed, Lopunny can function as a stallbreaker, cleric, or even a pseudo-offensive check in the same set. Furthermore, Lopunny outpaces common threats such as non-Scarfed Frostom, Stoutland, and Ursaring, and with proper prediction, a Lopunny with 252 EVs in Attack and High Jump Kick can 2HKO the aforementioned threats (all of which are quite common in this meta).

Calcs

252 Atk Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Ursaring: 250-296 (77.8 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after toxic damage
252 Atk Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Stoutland: 216-256 (69.4 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Frost: 188-222 (78 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Where Lopunny really shines, however, is in her set unpredictability. While it may seem totally cheese, Switcheroo and Klutz is a potent combination that can be teched with certain items to aid specifically against certain playstyles. Should one need to shut down stall, they can use Lopunny to Switcheroo a Choice Scarf or Assault Vest onto the enemy Pokemon to, essentially, ruin that Pokemon's chances of doing anything meaningful in that match. In a meta where Tangela and Missy are common, Switcheroo itself is valuable because it halves their defenses immediately. Switcheroo + Assault Vest can be a way to bypass Lickilicky (who is essential to stall) and his Oblivious ability to render him near-useless. More so, a Switcheroo'd Choice Scarf can lock an enemy Pokemon into a set-up move if timed properly, acting as a permanent Encore. To deal with offense, Lopunny can utilize Flame Orb to burn and halve the Attack of Pokemon focused on physical damage (there are plenty in this metagame that this is useful for; Stoutland is likely the most common). Beyond Switcheroo and High Jump Kick, Lopunny has access to Heal Bell (to aid against Toxic and sleep), Healing Wish (a particularly useful move to restore sweepers worn down by things such as Toxic, etc. by sacrificing Lopunny), Thunder Wave (to help outspeed faster Pokemon), Toxic (to rack up passive damage on the enemy Pokemon), Normal STAB, and even Magic Coat (useful for reflecting status and hazards when Lopunny is used as a lead, particularly against things like Smeargle). While I praise Lopunny a lot in this wall of text, it is to be mentioned that she is very prediction-oriented (which can definitely make or break games), and that there are a lot of offensive threats that can tear right through her. Another thing to be noted is that Lopunny is limited to offensive teams, as she is obviously best-suited to an offensive utility role. All in all, Lopunny is infinitely more viable and versatile than the incredibly obscure picks of the C- tier like Lumineon and Dusclops, and I really think that a slight tier increase could be arranged to accurately reflect that.

 

[Xayah]

Nominating Lopunny to go from C- to C tier, possibly even C+

Since the D and C tiers merged, the Pokemon at said tiers are quite displaced. This is especially true for Lopunny, who, in this meta, can take on a variety of roles. Armed with an amazing movepool (particularly on the support side) and a solid base 105 Speed, Lopunny can function as a stallbreaker, cleric, or even a pseudo-offensive check in the same set. Furthermore, Lopunny outpaces common threats such as non-Scarfed Frostom, Stoutland, and Ursaring, and with proper prediction, a Lopunny with 252 EVs in Attack and High Jump Kick can 2HKO the aforementioned threats (all of which are quite common in this meta).

Calcs

252 Atk Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Ursaring: 250-296 (77.8 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after toxic damage
252 Atk Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Stoutland: 216-256 (69.4 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Frost: 188-222 (78 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Where Lopunny really shines, however, is in her set unpredictability. While it may seem totally cheese, Switcheroo and Klutz is a potent combination that can be teched with certain items to aid specifically against certain playstyles. Should one need to shut down stall, they can use Lopunny to Switcheroo a Choice Scarf or Assault Vest onto the enemy Pokemon to, essentially, ruin that Pokemon's chances of doing anything meaningful in that match. In a meta where Tangela and Missy are common, Switcheroo itself is valuable because it halves their defenses immediately. Switcheroo + Assault Vest can be a way to bypass Lickilicky (who is essential to stall) and his Oblivious ability to render him near-useless. More so, a Switcheroo'd Choice Scarf can lock an enemy Pokemon into a set-up move if timed properly, acting as a permanent Encore. To deal with offense, Lopunny can utilize Flame Orb to burn and halve the Attack of Pokemon focused on physical damage (there are plenty in this metagame that this is useful for; Stoutland is likely the most common). Beyond Switcheroo and High Jump Kick, Lopunny has access to Heal Bell (to aid against Toxic and sleep), Healing Wish (a particularly useful move to restore sweepers worn down by things such as Toxic, etc. by sacrificing Lopunny), Thunder Wave (to help outspeed faster Pokemon), Toxic (to rack up passive damage on the enemy Pokemon), Normal STAB, and even Magic Coat (useful for reflecting status and hazards when Lopunny is used as a lead, particularly against things like Smeargle). While I praise Lopunny a lot in this wall of text, it is to be mentioned that she is very prediction-oriented (which can definitely make or break games), and that there are a lot of offensive threats that can tear right through her. Another thing to be noted is that Lopunny is limited to offensive teams, as she is obviously best-suited to an offensive utility role. All in all, Lopunny is infinitely more viable and versatile than the incredibly obscure picks of the C- tier like Lumineon and Dusclops, and I really think that a slight tier increase could arranged to accurately reflect that.

Good post, I like it a lot!

However, I do not agree with the nomination. The main reason for this is that Lopunny is simply incredibly niche: in A- and above, we have Stoutland, Chatot, Ursaring, Vigoroth, and Bouffalant as Normal-type breakers. And while Lopunny is faster than each of these, we also have Purugly, which is even faster than Lopunny, in B+. We have an abundance of offensive Normal-types, and Lopunny's HJK isn't enough to make it stand out when Stoutland has Superpower, Ursaring has Close Combat and Earthquake, and Bouffalant has Earthquake, especially seeing as how Lopunny fails to OHKO the things you want to use HJK for.

So what about Klutz + Switcheroo? This set is pretty interesting as it has the potential to seriously screw over certain Pokemon, but that's just it: it screws over a couple Pokemon, which are pretty specific depending on your item and this is just not enough. Meanwhile, you have a Lopunny that's unable to hold an item, greatly reducing its damage output, and can't do much to Z-Move users.

All in all, I really don't think Lopunny does enough in our metagame to rise, since it's simply outclassed 90% of the time by all our other breakers.

 

[Eoin482]

You can't be disrespecting Oranguru like that, 3 grades below Onix smh

 

[5gen]

You can't be disrespecting Oranguru like that, 3 grades below Onix smh

Oranguru is a case of a Pokemon with an extreme niche. Being part Normal-type really hinders Oranguru in the current meta because of how good Fighting-types are. Having a Ghost-type immunity as a Psychic-type is great but Ghosts aren't that relevant bar Misdreavus and the rare offensive Dusknoir. For the record, Taunt Misdreavus and Sucker Punch can still give it trouble.

Musharna, Grumpig, and Beheeyem give Oranguru tremendous competition as bulky Psychic-types. Musharna specifically because it takes away the Trick Room setter niche. Grumpig is arguably the best bulky Psychic-type at the moment due to its bulk+speed+Thick Fat combo and utility options in Taunt or Twave. Lastly, Beheeyem outclasses any form of an offensive set because it also gets Nasty Plot and TR, and has much higher damage output. It also has the longevity factor due to Recover.

Onix on the other hand has a defined niche in weather lead for sun and sand respectively. Access to Taunt, Rocks, and Explosion, alongside its high Speed for a suicide lead, make Onix the best at what it does.

 

[Xayah]

After further discussion on council, a couple more VR changes are coming through. Almost all of these are some unranked mons that are being placed in Usually Useless or C ranks (except for Pawniard).

changes

Pawniard: A- -> B+

Illumise: C -> C+

Lampent: Unranked -> C

Silvally-Electric: Usually Useless -> C-

Wigglytuff: Unranked -> C-

Girafarig: Unranked -> Usually Useless

Mothim: Unranked -> Usually Useless

Regigigas: Unranked -> Usually Useless

 

[Apagogie]

Since we don't know when will arrive the shifts, I take this moment of calm in the tier to propose some changes, especially on the lower ranks. Indeed, I already did some nominations last time about the higher ranks and I think these ranks are globally representative about what is effective in the current meta.

Here is what I have nominated one week ago. My mind hasn't changed since.

Quick thoughts on the VR

A+ -> A . Already gave my opinion on chatot on the chatbox. I won't repeat but I wanted to point it out.

A -> S . With what I said above, I think I cannot argue more. Mushy is splashable, it supports the team and it is the more terrific thing which exists in ZU. Let it A is a crime, let it join Stoutland and Rotom-Frost on the pantheon of ZU.

A -> Lower . It was the last time I have seen Rotom-Fan and it was not glorious. You cannot seriously say this mon is as viable as grumpig, muk or combusken in a team. I know usage doesn't mean viability but what is the last time you have deliberality chosen to add R-Fan in a team ? I want to heard the reason with few replays as proof to know why its Pokemon is ranked so high.

B+ -> B . To be a special sponge 2HKO by Rotom-Frost and focus blast users isn't great in ZU. It's not either a Pokemon a lot of used recently. Its curse set is outclassed by all other wincons like muk or mushy. Its classical set isn't great either. Cradily doesn't find its place in an offensive meta dominated by Stoutland, Frosttom and Mushy.

B -> B+ . I didn't understand what it dropped tbh. Sure, SR are more present than before but it accomplishes as good as before its role of tank special. It stays a very good frosttom switch-in and its Z-Gravity set isalways threating and it likes the offensive way the meta is turning now with more mons 2HKO by its Boltbeam coverage.

B+ -> B It's not the best wincon anymore. It has trouble to set up, every team has physical answer and even at +1 it stays slow and be outspeeded by the majority of scarfers. It doesn't appreciate much the shift paradoxally. Once set up, it is as dangerous as before but that's far more difficult to reach this stage.

B -> B+ Very annoying to face tbh. It has flaws of course as it's unability to break bulky mon but otherwise it doesn't really have switch-in. Its Lo/Expert belt Wild Charge/ice Punch/earthquake or cross chop/Flamethrower destroys balanced core, a good speed tier and the opponent doesn't really know what it gonna do. Difficult to use but painthful to deal with.

Again twee fast nominations about the A rank :

A -> A-
Don't get me wrong, Manectric stays a good mon in the tier. It brings speed control to the slower teams, has coverage moves which hit everybody and is generally a decent volturner and so a good support for the rest of the team. However, Manectric gets some trouble actually, every well build team runs a electric immunty, the bulky set up sweepers very scaring don't care much about it (switcheroo is quite easy to scoot) and the special answers handle it just perfectly. These factors aren't new but they are more true than ever. Manectric isn't able to put the pressure like Frosttom does. Manectric isn't able to correctly force the switch of the opponent which is very annoying because you cannot just spam volt switch and you have to spam the other moves. For a voltswitch abuser, Manectric loses too often the momentum. It has more its place a rank below than the actual A rank.

A- -> B+
The viability of Smeargle depends a lot about how its playstyle is effective in the current meta. Webs stays threaten to face but less brainless than it was when this guys dropped in ZU. People are just adapted to it. Get rid of smeargle and success to defog later in the game with one or two anticipations. Do not forget either they are bulkier teams, more common than before, which don't care much about sticky web. A part of Taunt Grumpig is played with enough speed to outspeed Smeargle nowadays, Defiant Users aren't so powerful to avoid defog, uncommon ghost type allow to run rapid spin in several teams. Finally, Sticky Webs appears like Trick Room a playstyle too much match up based to be spammed effectively.

Here is two replays to illustrate what I said. I did some missplays (idk why I try to kill Missy with wild charge) but these show well the troubles manectric and webs have nowadays.
Battle 1 (Manectric)
Battle 2 (Manectric + Smeargle)

Lower ranks

Rises

C -> B-
The Z-Celebrate set is annoying to deal with. With the right support, Glaceon is able to kill at least one or two mons before being killed by a member of your team in the best case. Only Regice, Mareanie and Pyukumuku handle it perfectly and they are all quite rare. The bigger flaw of Glaceon is that it is a mon difficult to support perfectly which makes it uncommon to face but do not forget usage doesn't mean viability. It is one of the more threaten mon to meet in a battle, its ability to get rid of classical balanced core and to sweep weaken teams is enough for me to justify a rise in B-.

B- -> B
The Shadow Ball/Hp Fight/Calm Mind/Rest Chesto Unburden is an excellent wincon which threats muk/vigo/mushy. It justifies fully a rise. The replay is certainly not the best one because my opponent and I have choked both 1 million time in the battle but it's just to illustrate the power of the set.
Battle (Driblim)

Drops

B+ -> B
The new toy syndrom is over and we see in a more accurate way the flaw of this mon. I cannot say if it lacks of power, of bulk or maybe both but it lacks of something to be more effective. Generally Dugtrio comes on the board, weaken without kill the foe and die just after. Dug woud like to get the sash, the Z-Move and the band in a single set. Sand Force in sand correct a bit these problems but requires of course an huge support to work. Torterra hard counter it, Dug can just in the better case toxic it and then die, the Sivallys deal with it without too much problems. Fast Memento is great but it's a shame to play a mon only to sacrifie it. Do not forget either that Dugtrio isn't splashable at all like teammate. You will prefere always an other option instead. If you have the choice, you will never bring it as physical attacker. You need Dug in a team only in few rare moments where no others mon fit, you are almost forced to want to play it in a team to add it. Dugtrio isn't bad but has no much reasons to be played, drop it.

B -> B-
Armaldo isn't less good than before, I just think B- is more accurate for it, next to Sandslash. Arma is a soft check to Stout but weak to SR is bad so they are globally equivalent. Webs team are less seen than before too so rapid spin loses a bit of its utility.

B -> B-/C+
Its Choice band set is meh. Dusknoir performs only in TR setter and isn't the best one either in this role. Basically it puts the TR and then suicide itself with Memento or Z-Memento and even if it is not bad at all in this function it's really a specific niche. Dusknoir is effective only in TR and absolutely not mandatory inside, B is unfortunately far too high for what it really does in the ZU Meta. That's too bad, I like a lot this mon.

B -> B-
Noctowl requires a stupid level of support to be effective and a large number of turns. Its best set is certainly the Agility Work Up one but that's really difficult to set up. Even if they don't have exactly the same role, after some tests you will realize chatot specs in just better in the majority of the situations. There are not a lot of reasons to use still noctowl, especially since except soundproof users, they have also the same checks.

B -> B-
Too passive. It has utility only in stall which isn't the best playstyle for the moment (and it isn't either absolutely mandatory in this playstyle). When Togetic arrives in the battlefield, it is the signal for all set up sweepers to come have fun in front of it. It's an issue really annoying considering bulky set up sweepers like muk, mushy or vigoroth are the more powerful things in ZU right now. Silvally-Fairy outclasses it in approximately all the situations, Togetic needs to drop.

B -> B-
Do not get me wrong once again, Golduck is strong with the correct support. Its main niche is in rain sweeper which is the more effective "special" playstyle played in ZU. If I want the duck drops for a rank, it's simply because I think B- is more accurated to represent its viability in the tier. It's a threaten rain abuser but requires an important support (basically a whole rain team) to be effective. It's not like Poliwrath used outside rain and cannot be too the only rain abuser in a team to work correctly. That's why in my opinion a B- rank is better for it.

B- -> C+
Munchlax isn't less good than before but there is actually no much reasons to play it. As I said above, Mushy, Vigo, Muk are all very effective in the current meta and you will choose rather them like wincon than baby Snorlax. Munchlax is just outclassed for the moment, you gonna play it only if your team is very weak to fire and ice, that's all.

B- -> C+
Only effective in TR in Eruption abuser (the sr set is bad) and not mandatory inside. Camerupt is simply more a niche mon only effective with the right support than a good mon splashable in your team. It's not less good than before but has no many reasons to be played and can be generally substitute by an other breaker in tr teams.

B- -> C+
Screens have never been great in whatever meta. If Meowstic can be scary to face, it's because you know just after there is a set up sweeper (Huntail, Pinsir,...) who can easily take boosts. The problem is there are better ways to do that, run Parting shot or Memento in a team and you have the same results without being passive. Indeed, when Meowstic come on the board you know what will happen the four next turns and you can easily anticipate that to prevent to be swept. It's not the case if the opponent runs Silvally or Memento user, you don't know when will try to set up his pokemon. A bad mon to be honnest.

C+ -> Unranked
I maybe missed something but what Illumise concretely does ? What's the point ? I don't really know

C -> Unranked
Outclassed by Sandslash/Armaldo in spinner, by Camerupt in Eruption abuser under TR, by Magcargo (lol) in Shell Smash Abuser. Torkoal is useless, it has no utility, unrank it.

C- -> Unranked
Be immunised to a resisted type isn't enough to justify a rank. There is no reason to play it instead of Silvally-Water. Bye Lumy, we liked you... in 6gen.

C- -> Unranked
This mon tricks AV... Ummm did this strategy already work ? I don't think so. Unrank

 

[Yahooboo]

well with the shifts I have to make one pretty unimportant nom:

Dwebble: Usually Useless - Unranked

Any niche this had is killed by Crustle dropping. GG.

 

[JBL11md]

After playing around with Jynx, I think that its overall incredible, and counterplay depends on what set you are using. Lovely kiss is amazing, clicking Lovely Kiss on the switch and setting up a NP can get out of control, and Z lovely kiss can instantly sweep once the opponents scarfer is removed. Other sets such as Never-Ending Nightmare can be a good lure to defensive ghost types such as misdreavus and dusknoir. Subsitute can also be great, especially against Stall. I'm not sure if Jynx is too much for the tier, but if it gets ranked, It should go to A+ or S

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Looking forward to playing this meta when it inevitably wins omotm for may. At a glance it seems quite similar to ORAS PU, which is good as that was my favourite tier last gen. One thing confuses me though - why is Sawsbuck so much lower down than Leafeon? It has a better offensive typing, 2 immunities with Sap Sipper so more switch in opportunities, STAB Horn Leech means it can run a Life Orb without being worn down as much and Jump Kick to break Steel types. Leafeon is bulkier, but does that really warrant so many ranks higher?

 

[Xayah]

ZU has become Other Meta of the Month for May!

Thank you all so much for voting and I'm looking forward to playing the ladder with you!

Looking forward to playing this meta when it inevitably wins omotm for may. At a glance it seems quite similar to ORAS PU, which is good as that was my favourite tier last gen. One thing confuses me though - why is Sawsbuck so much lower down than Leafeon? It has a better offensive typing, 2 immunities with Sap Sipper so more switch in opportunities, STAB Horn Leech means it can run a Life Orb without being worn down as much and Jump Kick to break Steel types. Leafeon is bulkier, but does that really warrant so many ranks higher?

To reply to this, I haven't tested Sawsbuck in quite a while and it could actually be quite interesting, but before the recent tier shift Sawsbuck suffered from a lot of other Normal-type breakers in our metagame, most notably Stoutland and Ursaring, which Leafeon set itself apart from a bit more. Now, that's no longer relevant, but Leafeon's higher bulk to set up SDs with, slightly higher Attack and access to Leaf Blade, and lack of weakness to Monferno's Mach Punch and Poliwrath's Vacuum Wave let it keep its higher rank for now. But as I said, I'm interested in looking into Sawsbuck some more

 

[Xayah]

Right before our ladder actually opens, here is a VR update! It only includes discussion of B+ and above ranks (and Dwebble) since the council wanted to make sure this gets out in time and we can provide explanations for each change. So here it is:

New Pokemon

Alolan Dugtrio -> A- With a great Speed tier, good Attack stat, and incredible offensive typing, Alolan Dugtrio has proven itself to be considerably better than its Kantonian counterpart. Offensive teams love it ability to consistently revenge kill while also luring Tangela and Torterra in with Toxic. Its frailty and the fact that it gets outsped by Zebstrika do hurt it and it can sometimes struggle to break bulkier threats like defensive Poliwrath, but it definitely deserves an A- rank.

Crustle -> A- Crustle's two sets are both very good at what they do, with Shell Smash being a very strong late-game cleaner that can set up relatively easily thanks to Sturdy while Hazard Lead generally gets up at least two layers (two Spikes or Stealth Rock + Spikes) thanks to good bulk and Weak Armor. It does struggle due to its low speed, weakness to rocks, and poor defensive typing, but it is still very effective at what it wants to do.

Liepard -> A+ Liepard has been a top tier threat ever since it entered the tier. It's our best Pursuit trapper, a solid source of priority with either Prankster Copycat or Sucker Punch, a good breaker, a setup sweeper, and all around a massive threat that every team has to consider. Definitely deserves to be A+.

Lycanroc -> A+ Lycanroc has proven itself to be the best of the new drops. It has only one common set (SD/Stone Edge/Drill Run/Accelerock with Lycanium Z or Life Orb) but that one set does its job so incredibly well that just seeing it on team preview means you have to keep it in mind at all times. There's also lure sets like Groundium Z and Firium Z which, while not common, get around some of the Pokemon that would check Lycanroc normally. The power behind Splintered Stormshards is inmense and Accelerock's priority is valuable, meaning Lycanroc is a very effective breaker and sweeper that deserves to be near the top of the VR.

Lurantis -> B- Unfortunately for Lurantis, the role of a Grass-type Defogger was already being taken up by both Servine and Silvally-Grass and the new guy struggles to set itself apart. While physical sets are neat, they aren't quite effective enough to justify the same rank as the two aforementioned Pokemon.

Shuckle -> B- Shuckle struggles to set itself apart from Smeargle due to a lack of access to Spore. Being able to more easily get up both Stealth Rock and Sticky Web is cool, but most Webs teams will still prefer Smeargle. Contrary Shell Smash isn't reliable enough to rise it up either.

Rises

Grumpig A -> A+ Mago Berry Grumpig has been gaining popularity and for good reason. It's one of the best checks to Rotom-Frost, Combusken, and the increasingly popular Monferno and Poliwrath, can be a solid stallbreaker with Taunt and/or Substitute, and is very splashable as a general special wall. Fits well within A+.

Poliwrath A -> A+ The tier shifts were very kind to Poliwrath. It's a solid check to Lycanroc, Alolan Dugtrio, and Crustle while Silvally-Fairy leaving meant that Fighting-type moves are easier to spam. Both it offensive and defensive got better and it now definitely deserves A+.

Bouffalant A- -> A This thing lost all of its competition as a Normal-type breaker with Stoutland and Ursaring leaving. Both Choice Band and SubSD sets are very threatening and it's also a decent Pursuit trapper. The rise of Fighting- and Ghost-types hurts it, but it's still an excellent choice for any team that needs a breaker.

Gourgeist-L A- -> A With Stoutland and Ursaring leaving, Gourgeist-Large can do its job of walling Normal-types again. It's also a good check to non-Ice Beam Poliwrath and Crustle while Will-O-Wisp is good tool for a Pokemon that can live a hit from +0 Lycanroc and Liepard.

Monferno A- -> A Monferno and Combusken have been constantly switching places for a while now and it's about time that they share a rank. Currently, Monferno's U-turn is very valuable in bringing in Pokemon like Lycanroc and Liepard while Mach Punch also threatens both of them heavily. It was up for a rise.

Probopass A- -> A This was long overdue. Probopass's Magnet Pull has been very valuable in supporting all kinds of Pokemon, from Stoutland, Jynx, and Musharna in the past to Lycanroc, Crustle, and Bouffalant now. It should have probably been A already, but now it actually is.

Lickilicky B+ -> A-

Pyukumuku B+ -> A- Grouping these two together since they are both cause by Ursa's departure making stall much better. These might both rise more in the future, but this should be enough for now.

Drops

Chatot A+ -> A The drops were very unkind to Chatot. Liepard, Alolan Dugtrio, and Lycanroc all outspeed and OHKO it, with the latter two also taking a hit from Choice Scarf (ADuggy has to fear Heat Wave) and the former being able to use Prankster Copycat or Thunder Wave to cripple it regardless. Crustle can tank a hit and OHKO it easily while Chatot's Specs set also lost Stoutland and Ursaring to revenge kill while not gaining anything else. It would drop more but the loss of two major competitors as Normal-type breaker lets it keep its A rank for now.

Mawile A+ -> A Mawile was A+ mainly for being one of the few absolute counters to Stoutland. Now that that's gone, it should drop. Its new Shuca Berry set does fair well against Pokemon like Lycanroc and it does have a good matchup against Liepard, but it should drop.

Beheeyem A -> A- Beheeyem does not like Liepard and Crustle dropping at all. It was already struggling to keep up with the rest of A, but now it simply cannot keep its rank. While it does appreciate Musharna getting banned, it really suffers from how common Grumpig is currently s at the moment.

Ninetales A -> A-

Rapidash A -> A- Both of these heavily dislike drops like Alolan Dugtrio, Lycanroc, and Crustle as well as how common Grumpig is at the moment, so both should drop down one subrank.

Rotom-S A -> B+

Oricorio-E A- -> B+ These also also both suffer heavily from drops like Lycanroc and Crustle while having to compete with other Electric-types like Rotom-Frost and Manectric. They do not differentiate themselves enough and are thus booted out of A.

Raichu A- -> B+ The addition of several Pokemon that threaten it like Liepard, Lycanroc, and Lurantis make Raichu considerably worse. Since it was already at the bottom of A-, it is now dropping to B+.

Smeargle A- -> B+ Sticky Web got much worse with Ursaring and Stoutland leaving the tier and Smeargle now faces competition from Shuckle (though it is generally better), so it drops down a subtier.

Cradily B+ -> B Increasing popularity of Fighting-types, Torterra becoming more common, and the departure of two Normal-types make life hard for this. It was already tough to use over other Rock setters but now it really struggles to fit on a team, so a drop to B is appropriate.

Fraxure B+ -> B With how common Choice Scarf Rotom-Frost still is, Fraxure really struggles to actually sweep. This in addition to struggling to set up with a meta as offensive as this, being unable to break Togetic stall, and fearing Liepard's Encore means that it no longer deserves a B+ rank.

Huntail B+ -> B With an abundance of Scarf Electric-types, fat Grass-types, and bulky Water-types, Huntail just struggles to do much in this meta. It's too frail to consistently set up and tends to drop to priority or a Scarfer even if it does. Unfortunately, it doesn't really have a place in B+.

Roselia B+ -> B A Grass-type that fails to check Ground-types will struggle to find its place currently. Especially if that Grass-types major role is setting Spikes and Crustle drops. Roselia shouldn't stay in B+.

Servine B+ -> B With more competition from Lurantis and Silvally-Grass becoming more popular, Servine doesn't set itself apart enough to maintain such a high rank.

Simisear B+ -> B The addition of Lycanroc and Crustle make life hard for Fire-types and Simisear is no exception. Dropping down.

Dwebble Usually Useless -> Unranked We have Crustle now

Over the next week or so, the council will be discussing the lower ranks as well

 

[wiczyk]

servine should be A from the raw power it gives+defog is strong.

There should be some changes going up on this soon as it was just released. Electivire is very strong

I'm currently using this team: It has lost once, but is hard countered by ninjask, as ninjask is faster and can ohko most of my pokemon. It uses a lot of pokemon in lower tiers. Also why does this list not have Yanma?

Rampardos @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Thunder Punch
- Fire Punch

Servine @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Defog
- Giga Drain

Electivire @ Life Orb
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- Cross Chop
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

Combusken @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brick Break
- Flare Blitz
- Protect
- Feint

Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Thunderbolt
- Blizzard
- Trick

Yanma @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Defog
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash

 

[5gen]

servine should be A from the raw power it gives+defog is strong.

There should be some changes going up on this soon as it was just released. Electivire is very strong

I'm currently using this team: It has lost once, but is hard countered by ninjask, as ninjask is faster and can ohko most of my pokemon. It uses a lot of pokemon in lower tiers. Also why does this list not have Yanma?

Rampardos @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Thunder Punch
- Fire Punch

Servine @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Defog
- Giga Drain

Electivire @ Life Orb
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- Cross Chop
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

Combusken @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brick Break
- Flare Blitz
- Protect
- Feint

Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Thunderbolt
- Blizzard
- Trick

Yanma @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Defog
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash

Hey there, welcome to ZU. Your team looks interesting. I’d recommend looking at the Viability Rankings on the first page of this thread for sample sets. This is because Servine, Combusken, and Rotom-Frost have more optimal and effective sets they can run. Choice Scarf Rampardos is another cool pick but I feel it can be replaced by offensive SR Golem with EQ/Stone Edge/ Sucker Punch (set is linked on the VR). This is because the team lacks Stealth Rock and a Normal-type switch in. Furthermore, having two Electric-types is generally extra and redundant, so I’d recommend replacing Electivire with Black Glasses Liepard. A set of Knock Off, Pursuit, U-turn, and Encore provides a lot for this team. Most notably Liepard helps you weaken teams, whittle down defensive Pokemon, trap Grumpig who walls both Combusken and Rotom-Frost, provides a much needed revenge killer, and deters setup from Pokemon like Lycanroc and Vigoroth.

Regarding Yanma, it simply has too small a niche to play in this metagame. Yanma requires a ton of support and performs much worse than other Bug-types such as Butterfree or even QD Masquerain (who’s a mediocre set in itself).

 

[Yung Dramps]

It's your boy yung low ladder fuckass back with some things that should probably be deleted out of the format

Vigoroth is retarded. In particular, I'm talking about Sub Bulk Up Vigoroth. Words cannot describe just how many set-up opportunities that set can secure, and how many teams it can cremate. This has all been discussed before, and I can only assume it wasn't banned before because people wanted to give the meta time to adapt, as it was still a fairly new discovery at the time. Well, here we are months later with a full-fledge ladder in place, and no good counterplay outside of "pack a Ghost and pray" has emerged. Hell, if you have teammates with Toxic, Vigoroth can actually out-stall Ghosts. This is at the top of the watchlist for me.

We already know what Rotom-Frost does. But is what it does healthy for the tier? I don't think so. Between its great coverage, well-rounded stats, pivoting and various viable items for it to run, it is impossible to figure out what set it is at team preview. This is what really breaks Rotom-F for me: Unlike Vigoroth, rather than having one broken set that constrains teambuilding, it has multiple sets which, while arguably manageable on their own, put them all together and you got a Pokemon that is way too versatile and strong. This is the more controversial of my two opinions, but I still think it's worth discussing.

And now for some VR thoughts

In my eyes, Silvally-Fighting is the second best Silvally form currently in the format next to Water. With the drops of strong-ass Rock types like Lycanroc and Crustle and the continued presence of Pokemon like Rotom-F, Smeargle and Vigoroth, people are scrambling to find a check to these threats. That's where Fightingvally comes in. Not only does it eat hits and manhandle those mons with Multi-Attack, but it can also remove hazards, pivot out of checks and even cripple things with Toxic. That kind of role compression is to die for in this metagame. Imo, it should go up to B or B+ (Preferably the latter) due to these extremely anti-meta qualities. Oh, and the attacking set is also pretty decent, adding further to its viability.

Ninetales finds itself in an awkward position atm. Unlike Fightingvally, the recent rises and drops have not been kind to it all. Unlike the two other centerpiece Fire types of the tier (Monferno and Combusken), it doesn't have the extra STAB/tools to fight off its new enemies. As a pure special attacker, it is really friccin weak with 81 SpA and only one STAB, and finds itself competing with Mr. Mime, Kadabra, Manectric and more. Being a Fire type with a cool speed tier and Nasty Plot is a nice niche for sure, but the competition it receives makes it more in line with stuff in B+. However, in all fairness, it's definitely one of the better things in B+, and if it doesn't drop, I won't really care.

Prinplup is awful. I know it has already dropped, but it needs to drop lower.

Let's define C+ for a moment. C+ is for Pokemon that aren't good and struggle often, but they have a unique niche that can be useful for certain teams. Prinplup does not fall into this category, for it is pretty much a worse Silvally-W in every single conceivable way.

Better bulk with Eviolite? Whatever. The bulk boost is negligible anyway. Meanwhile, you're just making yourself suspectible to Knock Off, which spoiler alert, is on every semi-competent team in this format.

wow look at that huge bulk improvement

0 Atk Vigoroth Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Prinplup: 57-67 (17.1 - 20.1%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Vigoroth Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Silvally-Water: 67-81 (17 - 20.5%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Bouffalant Head Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Silvally-Water: 256-303 (64.9 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Bouffalant Head Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Prinplup: 211-249 (63.5 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It gets Stealth Rock and Scald? Defog and Rocks on the same set. Nice one. Totally not banal and doesn't make you susceptible to 4MSS at all. Meanwhile, Silvally gets like 100 different coverage moves, Parting Shot and even gets cool support techs like Magic Coat and Tailwind.

EDIT: I was recently informed by Xayah that its niche is being a Water rocker that beats Crustle and Golem. Problem is, it does a shit job at that. For both of those mons, it needs a Scald burn to take them out while keeping hazards off. Even if it succeeds at this, it'll end up being heavily weakened.

Yeah, Prinplup is shit. Send this hunk of trash to C or C- pls

 

[LordHelix]

Can we talk about how destructive raticate is?? I cant believe its not even ranked, im kinda busy irl at the moment so i cant do a proper nom but i used this mon for alott of battles and this mon straight up murder teams even with normal checks, everything gets ohko'd by +2 facade for real

Raticate unranked -> somewhere?

quick pros and cons

Pros

• guts boosted +2 facade and quick attack absolutely destroys balance and pressures offense
• has a nice speed tier outspeeding silvally
• Has nice coverage in stomping tantrum and crunch to hit its supposed "checks"
• Immune to toxic with flame orb so sticks around fatter teams for longer

Cons:

• outsped by a number of common scarfers and quick mons like lycanroc
• Frail as hell, gets 2hkod by like no attack invested licilicky
• Gets walled by some mons depending on coverage (steels if forgo stomping, ghosts beat with no crunch, offense pressures it more with no quick attack)

Its no top tier mon but can really pressure teams

Sample set:

Raticate @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Crunch/Stomping Tantrum
- Quick Attack
- Swords Dance

I prefer coverage against ghosts since my team struggles against it + steels arent really a prob

I dont have proper replays right now since i havent saved as many as id like but ill try to add later if i can, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-741594462, ik its a low ladder replay but its just to give u an idea of how it works, if i had sr i wouldve killed the rapidash too

might as well mention volbeat

I think Volbeat can use a rise, the phys def pivot set is very nice and a great defogger + twave spreader thanks to prankster, it may not be very fat but its godlike prankster roost makes its bulk much better. It also has somewhat nice special bulk which allows u to scout rotom frost, grumpig and mixed liepard for example

Not most high quality replays but gives u an idea of how it works
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-741791139 saves me by twaving eevee and pivots all day (speaking of which, raticate also sweeps here)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-740946741 here pivots into bouf and shiftry
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-740910823 defogs webs and twaves rapidash so that my simisage can outspeed and sweep

Thanks for reading and heres hoping to zu becoming official! Favourite tier by far right now

 

[Xayah]

Can we talk about how destructive raticate is?? I cant believe its not even ranked, im kinda busy irl at the moment so i cant do a proper nom but i used this mon for alott of battles and this mon straight up murder teams even with normal checks, everything gets ohko'd by +2 facade for real

Raticate unranked -> somewhere?

quick pros and cons

Pros

• guts boosted +2 facade and quick attack absolutely destroys balance and pressures offense
• has a nice speed tier outspeeding silvally
• Has nice coverage in stomping tantrum and crunch to hit its supposed "checks"
• Immune to toxic with flame orb so sticks around fatter teams for longer

Cons:

• outsped by a number of common scarfers and quick mons like lycanroc
• Frail as hell, gets 2hkod by like no attack invested licilicky
• Gets walled by some mons depending on coverage (steels if forgo stomping, ghosts beat with no crunch, offense pressures it more with no quick attack)

Its no top tier mon but can really pressure teams

Sample set:

Raticate @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Crunch/Stomping Tantrum
- Quick Attack
- Swords Dance

I prefer coverage against ghosts since my team struggles against it + steels arent really a prob

I dont have proper replays right now since i havent saved as many as id like but ill try to add later if i can, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-741594462, ik its a low ladder replay but its just to give u an idea of how it works, if i had sr i wouldve killed the rapidash too

might as well mention volbeat

I think Volbeat can use a rise, the phys def pivot set is very nice and a great defogger + twave spreader thanks to prankster, it may not be very fat but its godlike prankster roost makes its bulk much better. It also has somewhat nice special bulk which allows u to scout rotom frost, grumpig and mixed liepard for example

Not most high quality replays but gives u an idea of how it works
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-741791139 saves me by twaving eevee and pivots all day (speaking of which, raticate also sweeps here)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-740946741 here pivots into bouf and shiftry
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-740910823 defogs webs and twaves rapidash so that my simisage can outspeed and sweep

Thanks for reading and heres hoping to zu becoming official! Favourite tier by far right now

To start off, Raticate is currently ranked in C-, so it's not unranked. The reason it's that low is that up until recently, we had Ursaring in the tier, which does the whole Guts thing far better. We also had Stoutland, which gave it even more competition. It simply struggled to really set itself apart. Now that both of those are gone, however, it might be up for a rise soon.

Regarding Volbeat, I would definitely not use it over our other Defoggers, most notably Silvally formes. Prankster Roost isn't enough to save 65/75/85 bulk with a rocks weakness and a typing that doesn't really do it much good either (resisting Fighting seems cool until you remember our Fighting-types are Monferno and Combusken). I'd use this as a weather setter, which it actually is good at, but as a defensive Defogger it is simply outclassed, even moreso as a pivot Defogger.

 

[DaReaperknot]

Dusclops is B, B+ easily, not C- with the right set and an eviolite he can stall out most of the meta game.

252 Hp
92 Def
164 SPDef

Eviolite

Nightshade
Toxic
Rest
Sleep Talk

Running this along side intimidate phys def Mawhile is hard to break through, and Dusclops alone can just win the game if you can't break through him. Need RNG crits to beat it sometimes.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-741871196

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-741855454

Dusclops is so obnoxious. All I'm saying :)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-741981836