5gen
jumper
That's just the usage for March 2018, the actual usage stats used are the weighted ones Antar postedAccording to the uses of the PU-1630:
| 54 | Sandslash-Alola | 3.25012%
I guess this mon goes down too in ZU
That's just the usage for March 2018, the actual usage stats used are the weighted ones Antar postedAccording to the uses of the PU-1630:
| 54 | Sandslash-Alola | 3.25012%
I guess this mon goes down too in ZU
Oh ok my badThat's just the usage for March 2018, the actual usage stats used are the weighted ones Antar posted
If there are allowed to suspect test something that has just dropped, and they are, then why wouldn’t they be able to test something after a drop? The latter has had significantly more metagame development around the potentially broken Mon than the former.I'm just a bit confused on how a tier can receive a ton of new drops and a few rises and decide to suspect something. The metagame hasn't adjusted to all the new things yet, I don't think its fair to test something in an unsettled meta. What's the philosophy on this? Seems kinda unprofessional to me. Musharna is really good, yes, but it doesn't even matter on the state of the tier at that point - we just had a huge tier shift and you're asking people to make an "informed" decision based on a metagame that is undeveloped and can't really see how things are affected.
I get exactly where you're coming from and honestly, you're right. Suspect timing seems bad and forced and, as you called it, unprofessional. I would not have gone through with this for any other Pokemon, but Musharna in an exceptional case.I'm just a bit confused on how a tier can receive a ton of new drops and a few rises and decide to suspect something. The metagame hasn't adjusted to all the new things yet, I don't think its fair to test something in an unsettled meta. What's the philosophy on this? Seems kinda unprofessional to me. Musharna is really good, yes, but it doesn't even matter on the state of the tier at that point - we just had a huge tier shift and you're asking people to make an "informed" decision based on a metagame that is undeveloped and can't really see how things are affected.
Musharna is an extremely unhealthy aspect of the meta. Before the tier shifts we already had plans to suspect it and losing two of our best breakers in Stoutland and Ursaring gave us a lot more incentive to suspect it. I agree the timing of the suspect is somewhat awkward with a large tier shift. However, waiting on the tier to develop from these shifts and not suspecting it would be counterproductive in this case because the community strongly feels that Musharna is broken and these drops don’t make it any less broken. Liepard faces the same issues as all our other Dark-types in that it loses to coverage (Dazzling Gleam or Signal Beam) and Crustle drops to Z-Stored Power sets/has a tough time breaking through Barrier sets. Ultimately, there is no foreseeable way that the tier could develop to deal with Musharna based on losing our two best breakers in Stoutland and Ursaring, as well as these drops not dealing with Musharna well enough. Furthermore, an argument can be made that losing these two Pokemon increases the usage of Ghost types, which is basically Misdreavus and Dusknoir. The former gives Musharna trouble and the latter loses to it outright.I'm just a bit confused on how a tier can receive a ton of new drops and a few rises and decide to suspect something. The metagame hasn't adjusted to all the new things yet, I don't think its fair to test something in an unsettled meta. What's the philosophy on this? Seems kinda unprofessional to me. Musharna is really good, yes, but it doesn't even matter on the state of the tier at that point - we just had a huge tier shift and you're asking people to make an "informed" decision based on a metagame that is undeveloped and can't really see how things are affected.
You think that Musharna is extremely broken that you suspect it at a bad time, why wasn't it just quickbanned then? You clearly have a set notion of a right or wrong answer for if Musharna is broken or not, and it seems like you're suspecting something purely for the idea of suspecting something. You're not making sense here.Musharna is an extremely unhealthy aspect of the meta. Before the tier shifts we already had plans to suspect it and losing two of our best breakers in Stoutland and Ursaring gave us a lot more incentive to suspect it. I agree the timing of the suspect is somewhat awkward with a large tier shift. However, waiting on the tier to develop from these shifts and not suspecting it would be counterproductive in this case because the community strongly feels that Musharna is broken and these drops don’t make it any less broken. Liepard faces the same issues as all our other Dark-types in that it loses to coverage (Dazzling Gleam or Signal Beam) and Crustle drops to Z-Stored Power sets/has a tough time breaking through Barrier sets. Ultimately, there is no foreseeable way that the tier could develop to deal with Musharna based on losing our two best breakers in Stoutland and Ursaring, as well as these drops not dealing with Musharna well enough. Furthermore, an argument can be made that losing these two Pokemon increases the usage of Ghost types, which is basically Misdreavus and Dusknoir. The former gives Musharna trouble and the latter loses to it outright.
Sorry if some of this rehashes the above post, was writing it out before Xayah posted.
The metagame hasn't developed yet, i think it's a pretty simple concept to understand.A tier receives
If there are allowed to suspect test something that has just dropped, and they are, then why wouldn’t they be able to test something after a drop? The latter has had significantly more metagame development around the potentially broken Mon than the former.
Specifically responding to this point, the council argues about quickbanning Musharna for a considerable amount of time. However, after we couldn't come to a decision ourselves, we decided to request help from a TL from an official tier, since this is about policy regarding quickbanning Pokemon that have been in the meta for a while.You think that Musharna is extremely broken that you suspect it at a bad time, why wasn't it just quickbanned then? You clearly have a set notion of a right or wrong answer for if Musharna is broken or not, and it seems like you're suspecting something purely for the idea of suspecting something. You're not making sense here.
Man lol I've been using the VR for weeks I didn't know that lol thanks a lot x)Actually you can see standard sets of a Pokémon by clicking on its name in the Viability Ranking.
Omg yesWith a 62.5% majority, Jynx has been quick-banned by council from ZU!
Now if only people can prep accordingly against the rising playstyle that is stall.
One thing I would like to comment on is that this should really never be a reasoning in a suspect test. We tier a metagame as it is, not how we guess it might be in a few months. Saying that Musharna is fine because ghostvally might someday enter the tier would be like ou deciding not to ban something just because its checked by Zeroara. Sure, you have other reasons, but this one really shouldn’t factor in the slightest.3. Trickle Down Effect? The Future of Musharna...
ZU should eventually receive Pokemon such Silvally-Ghost and Claydol, among other Pokemon, that perform abysmally in PU but will help make Musharna not so much of a "centralizing" threat. Again, this contrasts with warping the metagame because adding Pokemon to the tier list over time isn't centralizing.
That makes sense and with the kokoloko method, which ZU partakes in, that's fine. It's just the fact we haven't resuspected a single Pokemon so far this generation, so the likelihood of it being banned, checks dropping, and then it getting resuspected fairly low unfortunately.One thing I would like to comment on is that this should really never be a reasoning in a suspect test. We tier a metagame as it is, not how we guess it might be in a few months. Saying that Musharna is fine because ghostvally might someday enter the tier would be like ou deciding not to ban something just because its checked by Zeroara. Sure, you have other reasons, but this one really shouldn’t factor in the slightest.
Another issue I see here is that the pokemon you listed that checks Musharna is easily handled by its teammates which handles Pursuit and Taunt users on both balanced and stall related teams.2. The metagame hasn't had time to develop/adapt
Yes, tier shifts happened less than 24 hours before the suspect was announced, and I think that wasn't the best decision, but what I'm mainly referring to is the fact that there are several methods of counterplay that the metagame hasn't adapted to yet. One of the best methods to counter Musharna is to phaze it, and I haven't really seen a phazer utilized with the exception of Dragon Tail Lickilicky since the Altaria metagame. And what about the abundance of effective sets that people aren't utilizing such as Megahorn Rapidash, Specially Defensive Pyukumuku, and Taunt Vigoroth? Over time I would predict the ZU metagame to begin to decentralize away from Musharna. This contrasts with warping the metagame because the sets the majority of sets that would start to become popular should have a positive effect on the metagame. Megahorn Rapidash hits all Psychic-types, especially Grumpig which resists Flare Blitz. Pyukumuku takes advantage of its key resistances to Fire, Ice, and Steel, all of which are predominantly special with a specially defensive spread. Taunt Vigoroth has already become a somewhat common set, but in my opinion, should be used more as it breaks down defensive cores such as TangBink effectively. And these are just 3 examples, and there are several more gems to find that will further the metagame. Yes, we've discovered a new set for Musharna and yes it increases its viability to A+ or S hands down. A problem I've been seeing with USUM ZU is that we want to suspect every S ranked mon. I firmly believe Musharna is the "meta-defining" example of what is S and not broken.