It can only have 4 moves.Hey Umbarsc does Chansey really stop Shaymin cold? It could just Seed you or Sub you or both.
God no, please. Are you serious? You think stall is bad now? Just wait until stall has not only a WAY better option to get spikes on the field but instant double ghost to stop everyone's Foresight Hitmontop.Now that I think of it. Froslass needs retesting. It only got voted to BL because people were to lazy to deal with it.
If you want stall to die, nom Chansey, people. Any other special wall is much easier to deal with. Registeel lacks reliable recovery making it much easier to wear down, and Umbreon lacks T-wave meaning that tons of offensive pokes get much safer switches against it. If Chansey goes away stall will become much more vulnerable to things like NP Croak, NP Houndoom and LO Moltres.*cough* all you guys who complain stall is broken as hell or overcentralizing the metagame.. should just vote Roserade as a suspect. It is a standard spiker/cleric for stall teams.
All I can say is I strongly disapprove of just picking and choosing Pokemon to ban in order to achieve a desired metagame. It won't end well.If you want stall to die, nom Chansey, people. Any other special wall is much easier to deal with. Registeel lacks reliable recovery making it much easier to wear down, and Umbreon lacks T-wave meaning that tons of offensive pokes get much safer switches against it. If Chansey goes away stall will become much more vulnerable to things like NP Croak, NP Houndoom and LO Moltres.
Also, Chansey is one of the few pure stall pokes used on all these identical stall teams. Hitmontop, Milotic, Roserade, Altaria, all can be used offensively aswell, whereas Chansey is basically a pure stall Pokemon, so removing it will do little to hamper offense. If not Chansey, then Spiritomb would be a good choice aswell.
Ironically enough, this is what Smogon is doing and has been doing from the start.All I can say is I strongly disapprove of just picking and choosing Pokemon to ban in order to achieve a desired metagame.
Don't you mean objective? It hurts my head when I try to think how anyone can possibly try and fail to be subjective.If I am not mistaken we're at least trying to be subjective here, whether or not we're succeeding is not really an excuse to stop trying to be subjective at all.
Apparently I am slow today. Yes ~_~Don't you mean objective? It hurts my head when I try to think how anyone can possibly try and fail to be subjective.
If this is really what you think the suspect tests are then I suggest that you wake up and pay attention. If you don't think the suspects are broken, say that and not "we are randomly picking pokemon to ban", since that is blatantly false. Not everyone that disagrees with you is misguided.Ironically enough, this is what Smogon is doing and has been doing from the start.
Pretty sure this is true. He didn't even use the word "randomly" like you did.All I can say is I strongly disapprove of just picking and choosing Pokemon to ban in order to achieve a desired metagame.
Pursuit, Hitmontop, Ambipom, Taunt, Drapion, Levitators, Fliers, SR, Spikes, and hell while not all these are 100% reliable but there are ways around Double Ghost + Spikes.God no, please. Are you serious? You think stall is bad now? Just wait until stall has not only a WAY better option to get spikes on the field but instant double ghost to stop everyone's Foresight Hitmontop.
You can make perfectly good stall without Chansey. I had some rather nice Trick Room vs Stall matches against panamaxis, the current #1 on the ladder, who didn't use a Chansey.If you want stall to die, nom Chansey, people. Any other special wall is much easier to deal with. Registeel lacks reliable recovery making it much easier to wear down, and Umbreon lacks T-wave meaning that tons of offensive pokes get much safer switches against it. If Chansey goes away stall will become much more vulnerable to things like NP Croak, NP Houndoom and LO Moltres.
Also, Chansey is one of the few pure stall pokes used on all these identical stall teams. Hitmontop, Milotic, Roserade, Altaria, all can be used offensively aswell, whereas Chansey is basically a pure stall Pokemon, so removing it will do little to hamper offense. If not Chansey, then Spiritomb would be a good choice aswell.
First, I think that the test ends in a couple of days, its been nearly a month.You can make perfectly good stall without Chansey. I had some rather nice Trick Room vs Stall matches against panamaxis, the current #1 on the ladder, who didn't use a Chansey.
In fact, if we were to ban any Stall pokemon, it would probably be Roserade, as it is the most difficult to replace. Milotic banned? Use Slowbro or another bulky water; there's a lot. Steelix/Registeel banned? use the other one. Spiritomb banned? there's always Rotom or Dusclops. Hitmontop banned? Claydol's a great spinner, and Blastoise can too. Chansey banned? Well, apparently it's not wholly necessary. But the only other Spikers are Omastar, Cloyster, Qwilfish, Glalie, and Cacturne. None of them have Roserade's reliable recovery, and they all have some rather nasty weaknesses.
That said, I don't think Roserade needs a ban. I just want Honchkrow and Shaymin back. That's all.
So, on that note, when do we need to meet the rating requirements by?
Yeah I am really glad to see shaymin banned more than any other poke really; I don't find the other 2 pokes nearly as overpowered.And I would hate seeing Shaymin back in UU. It's too damn powerful, especially with Crobat looking more BL by the second.
Honchkrow, I haven't missed much. Was an annoying bastard to deal with, but I got by. I'm pretty neutral on it tight now
That's not too surprising. Chansey, like Blissey in OU, is a great wall but very predictable. People only use stall when they want to stay at the top of the leaderboard, but any good player is usually able to take advantage of stall teams because of that. It's cool to see panamaxis is anti-metagaming the anti-metagamers. There are plenty of great special walls in UU because all of the good Special Atkers except Yanmega are OU already. Registeel, Altaria, Umbreon, Spiritomb, Drapion, etc, are all great options for special tanking that work very well in place of Chansey, who is essentially a free switchin for any Fighting-type.You can make perfectly good stall without Chansey. I had some rather nice Trick Room vs Stall matches against panamaxis, the current #1 on the ladder, who didn't use a Chansey.
We don't ban things just to change the metagame, we ban them because they are broken. IMO, Roserade doesn't do anything to break the metagame because of how easy it is to wall, combined with its horrible Defense. With Shaymin, Honchkrow and Crobat gone, we'll be able to see if Roserade really is that good!In fact, if we were to ban any Stall pokemon, it would probably be Roserade, as it is the most difficult to replace.
Umm, he said "i disapprove of just picking and choosing (aka randomly) pokemon to ban" and you said "smogon has been doing this from the start", as if you were suggesting that we are just picking and choosing pokemon to ban for no reason. If it just came out differently than you intended, then w/e sorry lets not derail the thread.Geez, read the statement I'm quoting before you jump down my throat:
Pretty sure this is true. He didn't even use the word "randomly" like you did.All I can say is I strongly disapprove of just picking and choosing Pokemon to ban in order to achieve a desired metagame.
Nominate Roserade? Not having Roserade, Shaymin and the removal of Raikou means that those bulky waters will never die. Milotic and Slowbro in particular are checked by Roserade and if Roserade leaves, CM Slowbro is going to rule the metagame (I'm pretty sure).Will nominating roserade even help against stall teams? I'm pretty sure LO roserade is a very important poke some people use when they are trying to break stall.
If you'll notice, I said later in my post that we shouldn't ban Roserade, and that's exactly why. It's not really broken, and, TBH, neither is stall. It's perfectly beatable, provided you're willing to take a risk to gain the initiative.We don't ban things just to change the metagame, we ban them because they are broken. IMO, Roserade doesn't do anything to break the metagame because of how easy it is to wall, combined with its horrible Defense. With Shaymin, Honchkrow and Crobat gone, we'll be able to see if Roserade really is that good!
Is it really that easy to wall? If you lack Registeel or Chansey there's basically zero safe switch-ins to the LO set, Sludge Bomb or Leaf Storm will do big damage on most anything else......and if it has HP Ground and Sleep Powder it can easily beat Registeel anyway.We don't ban things just to change the metagame, we ban them because they are broken. IMO, Roserade doesn't do anything to break the metagame because of how easy it is to wall, combined with its horrible Defense. With Shaymin, Honchkrow and Crobat gone, we'll be able to see if Roserade really is that good!
I will most definitely be voting Shaymin to BL, especially since as someone already said, I doubt that Crobat will be coming back to help check it again. Honchkrow I would not mind seeing in UU again, on the basis that it is not that much better than Absol anyway, who got exactly zero BL nominations.Also, I wouldn't say Shaymin and Honchkrow's ban is a foregone conclusion quite yet, though I will admit I haven't seen a whole lot of support for their return in this topic.
Since when are bulky waters unbeatable? a simple toxic and they will forever be crippled. And it's not as if roserade is a guaranteed free switch in to slowbro; a well timed psychic(or ice beam in milotics case) will hurt it quite a bit.Nominate Roserade? Not having Roserade, Shaymin and the removal of Raikou means that those bulky waters will never die. Milotic and Slowbro in particular are checked by Roserade and if Roserade leaves, CM Slowbro is going to rule the metagame (I'm pretty sure).