I've had a lot of success countering Breloom with Espeon lately. As most people (though not all) try and ensure a Spore before setting up, double switching to Espeon to reflect the Spore can put a dampener on their parade and if they try and stay in they can't kill you with Mach Punch and get owned by Psychic or Psyshock.
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Breloom
- Thread starter Manaphy
- Start date
Espeon gets smashed by Bullet Seed though if it switches into it. Xatu is by far a more effective counter, only fearing the odd Rock-type move. If you're using a Pokemon solely for Magic Mirror then Xatu is a better pick at the moment. It resists Breloom's main STABs and actually has reliable recovery. This isn't to say that Espeon doesn't fit better on some teams, but its effectiveness against Breloom essentially comes down to a 50/50.
I personally prefer night shade, or even heat wave these days.
Yeah, pretty much any SE move is going to OHKO Techniloom, but the fact is, Espy can't switch in as safely as you may think. If Breloom predicts its switch and uses Bullet Seed, Espeon is taking severe, if not catastrophic, damage. It's a good check to Techiloom (outspeeds, resists Mach Punch, and OHKOs with Psychic/Psyshock), but as a counter, it's shaky at best due to the threat of a Bullet Seed. Xatu is a much safer counter to Techniloom than Espeon since Xatu packs 4x resistance to Mach Punch and still resists Bullet Seed, meaning Spore+SD Techniloom is straight-up countered unless it uses Stone Edge over Bullet Seed. Banded Techniloom would have to use SE on the Xatu switch-in, or else it'll be forced out as well.
Wouldn't Sigilyph (def bulky flame orb set) be a better choice here?
I know I run Stone Edge on Breloom for just this reason. If I predicted a switch, I'd probably rather Stone Edge than Spore - of course they're going to throw a sleep-bait at you, no matter how good Sleep is in fifth gen, a clean KO is better any day.
Sigilyph would need to have the Flame Orb activated already, lest it risks a Spore on the switch-in. Otherwise, yes, Flame Orb Sigilyph is one of the most underrated things that can put Breloom in a bind. Can KO Loom with Air Slash or just Psycho Shift the status onto Breloom (or the switch-in) if it lacks Air Slash, effectively crippling Breloom for the rest of the match.
Quick question, does jolly breloom anything noteworthy or is adamant the way to go
EDIT: Nevermind, just saw Bluemon's post. Must have missed it when I skimmed the pages
EDIT: Nevermind, just saw Bluemon's post. Must have missed it when I skimmed the pages
I'm not sure about any KOs, but here is the speed tiers, you decide, I highlighted any relevant pokemon:
262 / Politoed, Breloom / 70 / +Spe / 252 / 0
261 / Gyarados / 81 / Neutral / 252 / 0
259 / Venusaur*, Mamoswine, Dragonite / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 0
256 / Latias* / Neutral / 0 / 0
253 / Heatran / 77 / Neutral / 252 / 0
251 / Scizor / 65 / +Spe / 252 / 0
250 / Cloyster, Metagross / 70 / +Spe / 208 / 0
249 / Togekiss, Dragonite / 80 / Neutral / 212 / 0
247 / Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / 164 / 0
245 / Togekiss, Dragonite / 80 / Neutral / 196 / 0
245 / Heatran / 77 / Neutral / 220 / 0
244 / Celebi*, Zapdos / 100 / Neutral / 32 / 0
244 / Gliscor / 95 / Neutral / 72 / 0
244 / Rotom-A / 86 / Neutral / 144 / 0
244 / Gyarados / 81 / Neutral / 184 / 0
244 / Jirachi / 100 / Neutral / 32 / 0
243 / Tyranitar / 61 / +Spe / 252 / 0
240 / Tentacruel / 100 / Neutral / 16 / 0
239 / Politoed, Breloom / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0
Most notably you outspeed Heatran, Jirachi, Celebi, Gliscor, and Mamoswine.
262 / Politoed, Breloom / 70 / +Spe / 252 / 0
261 / Gyarados / 81 / Neutral / 252 / 0
259 / Venusaur*, Mamoswine, Dragonite / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 0
256 / Latias* / Neutral / 0 / 0
253 / Heatran / 77 / Neutral / 252 / 0
251 / Scizor / 65 / +Spe / 252 / 0
250 / Cloyster, Metagross / 70 / +Spe / 208 / 0
249 / Togekiss, Dragonite / 80 / Neutral / 212 / 0
247 / Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / 164 / 0
245 / Togekiss, Dragonite / 80 / Neutral / 196 / 0
245 / Heatran / 77 / Neutral / 220 / 0
244 / Celebi*, Zapdos / 100 / Neutral / 32 / 0
244 / Gliscor / 95 / Neutral / 72 / 0
244 / Rotom-A / 86 / Neutral / 144 / 0
244 / Gyarados / 81 / Neutral / 184 / 0
244 / Jirachi / 100 / Neutral / 32 / 0
243 / Tyranitar / 61 / +Spe / 252 / 0
240 / Tentacruel / 100 / Neutral / 16 / 0
239 / Politoed, Breloom / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0
Most notably you outspeed Heatran, Jirachi, Celebi, Gliscor, and Mamoswine.
Another thing I will add, coming from personal experience too, is that Jolly Breloom outspeeds even Tornadus-T after using Low Sweep and can threaten to 2HKO it after Stealth Rock damage has been factored in.
Adamant Breloom also outspeeds Tornadus-T after a Low Sweep, and gives it a better chance to 2HKO...
Hmm. I read elsewhere - or maybe on here, honestly I can't remember - that it didn't. I'll do the math to figure out whether it does or does not and update this post.
Anyway, if Adamant Breloom does outpace Tornadus-T after a Low Sweep, then I would definitely vouch for it over the Jolly variant for the additional power. Otherwise, I would definitely take any chance to take out the flying genie as it is one annoying mother... well, I don't need to say the rest. :P
252 spd Adamant Breloom: 239 speed
252+ spd -1 Tornadus-T: 250 speed
The Tornadus-T you faced thelandlordsmm must have either not had full investment or been running a neutral speed nature for this to happen.
I have a little question about the fallowing set. Do you guys think it could be seriously used in competetiv play?
Loom@Yache Berry
Technician
Jolly Nature (+Spd; -SpAtk)
252 Atk, 252 Spd,4 Def.
-Mach Punch
-Bullet Seed
-Natural Gift
-Spore
I choose a jolly nature to outspeed stuff.
Spore is obvious, Mach Punch and Bullet Seed....I dont really have to tell why...
But here comes the big suprise: Yache Berry+Natural Gift.
Yache Berry gives you a 60 BP ice typ attack which is even boosted by Technician to better deal with dragons that often likes to switch in when Loom had put something to sleep. Natural Gift also let you deal with the Kami's if their switch in. Gliscor is going to be destroyed but it... Yache Berry (when not consumed) also let you deal with Mamo which otherwise would revenge you with ice shard... Yache Berry absorbs 50% of its damage...
Loom@Yache Berry
Technician
Jolly Nature (+Spd; -SpAtk)
252 Atk, 252 Spd,4 Def.
-Mach Punch
-Bullet Seed
-Natural Gift
-Spore
I choose a jolly nature to outspeed stuff.
Spore is obvious, Mach Punch and Bullet Seed....I dont really have to tell why...
But here comes the big suprise: Yache Berry+Natural Gift.
Yache Berry gives you a 60 BP ice typ attack which is even boosted by Technician to better deal with dragons that often likes to switch in when Loom had put something to sleep. Natural Gift also let you deal with the Kami's if their switch in. Gliscor is going to be destroyed but it... Yache Berry (when not consumed) also let you deal with Mamo which otherwise would revenge you with ice shard... Yache Berry absorbs 50% of its damage...
Thanks again, ScarfWynaut and Flashstorm1 !
That reminds me Quantum Mechanics vs Golden Sun back in 2011 WCOP
http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Golden-Sun-vs-Kiriyama--23-julho-2011-at-20h49
Lol o.O
I allmost used the same Heracross set long time ago :D
Cuz Gliscor was really annoying me so I thought: Lets but natural Gift on it to just destroy it.... :)
Btw... played with that Loom Set I posted alot and it did well suprising most switch ins with a KO :D
Imo the best Breloom right now is this one:
Breloom @ Life Orb
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
- Spore
- Bullet Seed
- Low Sweep
- Mach Punch
A 3 hit or more Bullet Seed, followed by Mach Punch, always 2hkoes Tornadus-T after SR (62.5% chance to get 3 or more hits), and even with 2 hits you still have a small chance to 2hko. This is the best set because it combines the best aspects of Breloom. First of all it doesn't let Spore go to waste, unlike the CB set. It can also 2hko most things that come into it, unlike the SD set, thx to Low Seep, which is simply an awesome move to have.
So between one of the best moves in the game, a multi-hit move that breaks subs, and has more than 110 BP on average (before STAB), a STAB priority move with awesome offensive typing and 60 BP, and a 90 BP move with STAB, that also lowers the opponent's Speed by one stage...!
Breloom @ Life Orb
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
- Spore
- Bullet Seed
- Low Sweep
- Mach Punch
A 3 hit or more Bullet Seed, followed by Mach Punch, always 2hkoes Tornadus-T after SR (62.5% chance to get 3 or more hits), and even with 2 hits you still have a small chance to 2hko. This is the best set because it combines the best aspects of Breloom. First of all it doesn't let Spore go to waste, unlike the CB set. It can also 2hko most things that come into it, unlike the SD set, thx to Low Seep, which is simply an awesome move to have.
So between one of the best moves in the game, a multi-hit move that breaks subs, and has more than 110 BP on average (before STAB), a STAB priority move with awesome offensive typing and 60 BP, and a 90 BP move with STAB, that also lowers the opponent's Speed by one stage...!
Rock tomb loom is pretty similar to the above set, but it sacrifices some power for coverage (Think Xatu + Zapdos):
@ Life orb
4 Hp/252 Atk/252 Spe
Trait: Technician
Nature:Adamant
-Spore
-Rock Tomb
-Bullet Seed
-Mach Punch
~252Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Rock Tomb vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Lightningrod Zapdos (+Def): 48% - 57% (188 - 222 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 15% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.
That's 252/252 Def Zapdos being 2HKO'd with rocks, goodbye to one of the best Loom checks.
-252Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Rock Tomb vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Xatu (+Def): 62% - 74% (210 - 248 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
Nobody runs 252/252 Positive Xatu, but if they did, it still would be 2HkO'd.
I could do more but I think what this set can do is clear.
4 Hp/252 Atk/252 Spe
Trait: Technician
Nature:Adamant
-Spore
-Rock Tomb
-Bullet Seed
-Mach Punch
~252Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Rock Tomb vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Lightningrod Zapdos (+Def): 48% - 57% (188 - 222 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 15% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.
That's 252/252 Def Zapdos being 2HKO'd with rocks, goodbye to one of the best Loom checks.
-252Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Rock Tomb vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Xatu (+Def): 62% - 74% (210 - 248 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
Nobody runs 252/252 Positive Xatu, but if they did, it still would be 2HkO'd.
I could do more but I think what this set can do is clear.
Politoed will basically never stay in on Breloom as Bullet Seeds ends it as Adamant Life Orb Bullet Seed only needs 3hits to OHKO Bold 252Hp 252Def toad.
As for Deo-D loom can just SD in its face if it does not pack psychic move.
I've been using CBLoom lately (rock tomb over spore), and it's been rather disappointing. It is very powerful, but it's rather frail and not fast enoigh to revenge anything when not using Mach Punch. How has CBLoom been working for you people? What other Breloom sets have you found to be more effective?
Well he's a lot different than scizor and dragonite, the other two CB priority users. Those two can switch in and force certain targets out. CBloom, on the other hand, can 2hko like 80% of OU with one move, ankle sweep.
This means his role is different. His job is to break down walls and defensive cores, as long as he can get in. And the safest way he can get in is rotom-w, or really any volt-turner. Why? Because they draw in ground types and ferrothorn, who give breloom free turns to destroy opposing pokes.
This means his role is different. His job is to break down walls and defensive cores, as long as he can get in. And the safest way he can get in is rotom-w, or really any volt-turner. Why? Because they draw in ground types and ferrothorn, who give breloom free turns to destroy opposing pokes.
CB Loom is awesome! If you can catch an opponent switching into him with Leg Sweep, they are not only mauled but they lose a stage in speed, usually giving breloom the speed advantage on the next turn.