Battle Spot Teambuilding Discussion & Help Thread (read post #453, page 19)

[DrZoidburglar]

I have a Charizard question.

I was dicking around breeding some offbeat natured charizards last night... and ended up breeding a 6IV Mild Charizard. Kiiiiinda wish that was Modest. Does anyone have any opinions on what I could do with him? Just pretend like he's modest, ignore the defense drop (Char-Y's defense isn't so great anyway), and use him as a special wallbreaker with EQ for coverage? Or try a mixed physical Char-Y build? It also has Outrage and Dragon Dance bred onto it, if that makes a difference.

Thanks!

 

[Hulavuta]

DrZoidburglar, an awesome hilarious set I ran into once was Focus Punch Charizard-Y, which takes out Tyranitars that like to switch in and change the weather. I think Earthquake would probably be better in general though, haha.

You might want to try a mixed Charizard-X if that interests you. It actually has 130 in both attacking stats so it might fit mixed a bit better than Char-Y does.

 

[DrZoidburglar]

Hmm, that could be cool too. Shiny Char-Y is so much prettier than Shiny Char-X though :P. I'll look into it..

 

[Campaign]

Try bulky char-X.. You'll see which is shinier :P

 

[DrZoidburglar]

So standard IV spread for a bulky Char-X, but then a mixed moveset? Something like DDance/Overheat/Dragon Claw/Roost?
I already run an Adamant Bulky Char-X and he's great

 

[ethan06]

Considering it's Mild natured, bulky ZardX seems really counter-intuitive imo... I'm not sure how useful Overheat will be either, considering you can only use it once and then you're purely physical again and restricted to Dragon Claw, which leaves you vulnerable to things like Mawile. Try Fire Blast I suppose...

 

[DrZoidburglar]

Yeah that's why I was leaning towards mixed Char-Y with Mild: Something like Flare Blitz, Solar Beam, EQ, Roost/DDance. Invest in HP/Atk/Spe. I was just wondering if Campaign had tried a Mixed Char-X before.

 

[Hulavuta]

I think Ethan's concern was with it being bulky, since Mild lowers Defense. You should just try to focus on a fully offensive set.

 

[DrZoidburglar]

Ohh, gotcha. Good point, thanks!

 

[cant say]

I personally think the Char-Y build should just be similar to the regular Modest one but with Earthquake slapped on for Heatran and Tyranitar. I wouldn't bother with other physical options like Flare Blitz or anything (except maybe Focus Punch, lol Hulavuta) as that's a waste of it's massive special attack and great special movepool. I would probably roll with a boring 6 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd. Mild seems like a waste on a Char-X build. The only real special option that is worth running on it (imo) is Overheat, which like was said earlier, pretty much forces you to be physical again after using it anyway, so if you went that route it would be better off going Lonely / Naughty / Naive etc. and go a primarily physical build with Overheat...

 

[DrZoidburglar]

I personally think the Char-Y build should just be similar to the regular Modest one but with Earthquake slapped on for Heatran and Tyranitar. I wouldn't bother with other physical options like Flare Blitz or anything (except maybe Focus Punch, lol Hulavuta) as that's a waste of it's massive special attack and great special movepool. I would probably roll with a boring 6 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd. Mild seems like a waste on a Char-X build. The only real special option that is worth running on it (imo) is Overheat, which like was said earlier, pretty much forces you to be physical again after using it anyway, so if you went that route it would be better off going Lonely / Naughty / Naive etc. and go a primarily physical build with Overheat...

I ended up having a few clones made, and I think I'll try both. I have a feeling this build will be the most successful though. I might try a really gimmicky team, with charizard/wide lens venusaur/someone (CB Azumarill?) and just go for sunlight with Char and then speedy sleep powder/solar beams from venusaur or something. I have a feeling people will assuming venusaur is the second mega on the team and not expect it, but who knows. I'll post again if it actually works! Thanks for the input guys.

 

[cant say]

I ended up having a few clones made, and I think I'll try both. I have a feeling this build will be the most successful though. I might try a really gimmicky team, with charizard/wide lens venusaur/someone (CB Azumarill?) and just go for sunlight with Char and then speedy sleep powder/solar beams from venusaur or something. I have a feeling people will assuming venusaur is the second mega on the team and not expect it, but who knows. I'll post again if it actually works! Thanks for the input guys.

When I see Venusaur on the same team as Charizard I assume Chlorophyll. If it's with any other mega then I presume second mega.. Also I don't like playing Azumarill with Charizard as sun weakens it's main STAB (stops you being able to pick things off with Aqua Jet)

 

[EnGarde]

I ended up having a few clones made, and I think I'll try both. I have a feeling this build will be the most successful though. I might try a really gimmicky team, with charizard/wide lens venusaur/someone (CB Azumarill?) and just go for sunlight with Char and then speedy sleep powder/solar beams from venusaur or something. I have a feeling people will assuming venusaur is the second mega on the team and not expect it, but who knows. I'll post again if it actually works! Thanks for the input guys.

Completely agree with cant say: venusaur is one of the best sun sweepers, and I would expect that before I'd expect mega venu on a team with charizard. You'd have better luck trying to bluff the other way (having an unexpected mega venu on the same team as charizard in team preview).

 

[DrZoidburglar]

Ok, I'd never seen a non-mega venusaur on Battle Spot but you guys have more experience than I do. You're not suggesting non-mega Charizard though right? Just using Char and Venu as my two megas? (and then maybe someone like Gyarados who can go either way to really confuse people?)

 

[cant say]

Ok, I'd never seen a non-mega venusaur on Battle Spot but you guys have more experience than I do. You're not suggesting non-mega Charizard though right? Just using Char and Venu as my two megas? (and then maybe someone like Gyarados who can go either way to really confuse people?)

Venusaur is one of those Pokemon on Battle Spot that you can already make a good assumption on what it's going to do based on team preview. Is it with Charizard? Then it's probably a Chlorophyll sweeper. Is it not with Charizard? Then it's most likely going to be a mega as it has no way of utilizing Chlorophyll outside of hoping the opponent brings the sun, and if they had then that means they have a Char-Y of their own (no one uses Ninetales) which will destroy your Venusaur anyway (unless you run Hidden Power Rock, does anyone do that?). That being said, my Mega Venusaur does have Chlorophyll as it's base ability so if my opponent does bring Char-Y and I'm able to get rid of it before the sun dies off, my Venusaur can come in and make use of the sun for a turn or two before mega evolving (remember, even if you do evolve on turn one, Venusaur's speed is determined before that so he will be able to benefit from the speed increase and being a mega on that turn).

So like I was saying, if you have Venusaur and something else that can mega evolve that isn't Char-Y, I would normally assume that Venusaur will mega evolve and the other thing (ie: Gyarados) either doesn't, or is a second mega...

 

[DrZoidburglar]

Venusaur is one of those Pokemon on Battle Spot that you can already make a good assumption on what it's going to do based on team preview. Is it with Charizard? Then it's probably a Chlorophyll sweeper. Is it not with Charizard? Then it's most likely going to be a mega as it has no way of utilizing Chlorophyll outside of hoping the opponent brings the sun, and if they had then that means they have a Char-Y of their own (no one uses Ninetales) which will destroy your Venusaur anyway (unless you run Hidden Power Rock, does anyone do that?). That being said, my Mega Venusaur does have Chlorophyll as it's base ability so if my opponent does bring Char-Y and I'm able to get rid of it before the sun dies off, my Venusaur can come in and make use of the sun for a turn or two before mega evolving (remember, even if you do evolve on turn one, Venusaur's speed is determined before that so he will be able to benefit from the speed increase and being a mega on that turn).

So like I was saying, if you have Venusaur and something else that can mega evolve that isn't Char-Y, I would normally assume that Venusaur will mega evolve and the other thing (ie: Gyarados) either doesn't, or is a second mega...

Ok cool, that makes sense. Thanks for all the input!

 

[Wishy]

This is what I've been using to moderate success so far... (edits = bold)

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Gale Wings
Adamant 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Brave Bird
Flare Blitz
U-Turn
Sleep Talk / Tail Wind / Will-o-Wisp / Roost

Decided to ditch Choice Band since I already have something else with a Choice item, and I'd rather not have potentially 2 Pokemon getting locked into a move in 3v3. Talonflame is pretty much easy-mode against less skilled players, but most other people seem prepared enough... Still does a pretty good job. Rarely end up using the 4th move, so I just cycle through random moves but I think Sleep Talk is the best utility.
Edit: Might try Scizor here instead to get the jump on some fairies, but the most common ones I've encountered [since first posting this] are Mawile and Azumarill which I've got decent checks for already.

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet / Life Orb
Rough Skin
Naive 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Dragon Claw / Swords Dance
Earthquake
Outrage
Substitute

awesome. usually ends up winning the game for me, or at least getting some important kills. Garchomp has such a troll-y speed I love it. Went Naive since I was originally running FBlast for Scizor. I was using Sand Veil w/ Focus Sash at first since I paired him with TTar often. Was ~okay~, Sand Veil barely ever activated anyway so now I'm just going for ++chip damage with r.skin+r.helmet, but I might go back to sash or try lum for some different utility. Iron Head was OK sometimes to nail fairies trying to come in on an expect dragon-move, but I found I'd rather just go EQ to hit switch-ins. Want to try Substitute, I think it could offer some great utility, paired with Life Orb or try a sub-swords dance set
Edit: Substitute has been pretty helpful

Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Sand Stream
Jolly 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Rock Slide
Crunch
Earthquake
Dragon Dance

Also wrecks. I think a lot of people misjudge TTar's bulk, which lets me get off a DD and +1/+1 MegaTar is really dangerous. Rock Slide >>> Stone Edge because missing really, really sucks and its really not worth the extra power... I'd rather gamble on getting a flinch with R-Slide, and usually just go with Crunch anyway, defense drops are fun. Usually paired with Chomp, where 1 will open a hole in the team while the other finishes it off.

Rotom-W @ Sitrus Berry
Levitate
Bold 252 HP / lots of defense / some speed (can't remember exact #s, prob just the standard EV spread from the smogon dex)
Hydro Pump
Thunderbolt
Will-O-Wisp
Toxic --> Volt Switch

no Volt Switch because I can't afford it from the Battle Maison yet lolz. Sucks not having it, but Rotom is so good and is so helpful. Neuters physical sweepers, shits on Gliscor. He usually ends up switching in a lot, I wish Pain Split was available in XY (fingers crossed for tutors in ORAS!!) since Rotom really wants recovery. Sitrus is manageable, might try ChestoResto. Really can't explain how many times Rotom has saved my butt or created a small crack in my opponents team for someone like Chomp/TTar to tear open.
Edit: Toxic is better filler than Confuse Ray. Might even try Hex.

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Levitate
Timid 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD (or HP? or Atk?)
Draco Meteor
Dragon Pulse / U-Turn
Dark Pulse
Flamethrower / Fire Blast / U-Turn

I bred Timid instead of Modest for some reason. I sometimes wish she had some extra kick, I need to see if max speed w/ CS outspeeds anything worthwhile anyway. Pretty fantastic. usually just Draco Meteors the shit out of everything, revenge kills other dragons, was running Fire Blast to check Mawile but I might try out U-Turn so she can function better as a pivot/lead. handles Gengar if I didn't bring TTar to the battle. not the most important member, but I like her. hate getting locked into 1 move though.
Edit: Got the Flamethrower TM which I'm using over Fire Blast since it's a OHKO against Mawile always, but loses out on reliably OHKO Ferrothorn for max health. Might swap Dragon Pulse with U-Turn instead as having that fire move has been very valuable.

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Blaze / Tough Claws
Adamant bulky-ish spread with max attack
Dragon Claw
Flare Blitz
Outrage / Roost
Dragon Dance

I've only used this once and it died almost instantly (a combination of SR and Calm Mind Raikou...) sooo... on paper it looks good! don't know what to do with the 3rd slot. Outrage is only there bc it was an egg move, might try Roost instead (if I ever get around to bringing this to a battle). It's a gamble between this and Talonflame to swap out with Scizor. when I was breeding I didn't even think about the fact I bred 3 sweepers weak to Fairy but I haven't had trouble with them.....yet

Super cookie cutter I know but this is my first team so I just wanted to get a feel for the real Battle Spot (instead of Showdown Battle Spot) and when I first started breeding I wanted to get a bunch of reliable staples before moving onto more quirky stuff. Want to try Aegislash, Heracross, Scizor, Pinsir, and Reuniclus because I'm scared of Breloom and I've wanted to use it.

 

[BWong]

This is what I've been using to moderate success so far...

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Gale Wings
Adamant 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Brave Bird
Flare Blitz
U-Turn
Sleep Talk / Tail Wind / Will-o-Wisp / Roost

Decided to ditch Choice Band since I already have something else with a Choice item, and I'd rather not have potentially 2 Pokemon getting locked into a move in 3v3. Talonflame is pretty much easy-mode against less skilled players, but most other people seem prepared enough... Still does a pretty good job. Thinking of swapping out for a bulky SD/roost/bullet punch/bug bite Scizor since my team is shit on by fairies (Azumarill mostly). Rarely end up using the 4th move, so I just cycle through random moves but I think Sleep Talk is the best utility.

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Rough Skin
Naive 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Outrage
Fire Blast / Substitute

awesome. usually ends up winning the game for me, or at least getting some important kills. Garchomp has such a troll-y speed I love it. Went Naive since I was originally running FBlast for Scizor. I was using Sand Veil w/ Focus Sash at first since I paired him with TTar often. Was ~okay~, Sand Veil barely ever activated anyway so now I'm just going for ++chip damage with r.skin+r.helmet, but I might go back to sash or try lum for some different utility. Iron Head was OK sometimes to nail fairies trying to come in on an expect dragon-move, but I found I'd rather just go EQ to hit switch-ins. Want to try Substitute, I think it could offer some great utility, paired with Life Orb or try a sub-swords dance set

Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Sand Stream
Jolly 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Rock Slide
Crunch
Earthquake
Dragon Dance

Also wrecks. I think a lot of people misjudge TTar's bulk, which lets me get off a DD and +1/+1 MegaTar is really dangerous. Rock Slide >>> Stone Edge because missing really, really sucks and its really not worth the extra power... I'd rather gamble on getting a flinch with R-Slide, and usually just go with Crunch anyway, defense drops are fun. Usually paired with Chomp, where 1 will open a hole in the team while the other finishes it off.

Rotom-W @ Sitrus Berry
Levitate
Bold 252 HP / lots of defense / some speed (can't remember exact #s, prob just the standard EV spread from the smogon dex)
Hydro Pump
Thunderbolt
Will-O-Wisp
Confuse Ray / Rest --> Volt Switch

no Volt Switch because I can't afford it from the Battle Maison yet lolz. Sucks not having it, but Rotom is so good and is so helpful. Neuters physical sweepers, shits on Gliscor. He usually ends up switching in a lot, I wish Pain Split was available in XY (fingers crossed for tutors in ORAS!!) since Rotom really wants recovery. Sitrus is manageable, might try ChestoResto. Really can't explain how many times Rotom has saved my butt or created a small crack in my opponents team for someone like Chomp/TTar to tear open.

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Levitate
Timid 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD (or HP? or Atk?)
Draco Meteor
Dragon Pulse
Dark Pulse
Fire Blast / U-Turn

I bred Timid instead of Modest for some reason. I sometimes wish she had some extra kick, I need to see if max speed w/ CS outspeeds anything worthwhile anyway. Pretty fantastic. usually just Draco Meteors the shit out of everything, revenge kills other dragons, was running Fire Blast to check Mawile but I might try out U-Turn so she can function better as a pivot/lead. handles Gengar if I didn't bring TTar to the battle. not the most important member, but I like her. hate getting locked into 1 move though.

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Blaze / Tough Claws
Adamant bulky-ish spread with max attack
Dragon Claw
Flare Blitz
Outrage / Roost / Will-o-Wisp
Dragon Dance

I've only used this once and it died almost instantly (a combination of SR and Calm Mind Raikou...) sooo... on paper it looks good! don't know what to do with the 3rd slot. Outrage is only there bc it was an egg move, might try Roost instead (if I ever get around to bringing this to a battle). It's a gamble between this and Talonflame to swap out with Scizor. when I was breeding I didn't even think about the fact I bred 3 sweepers weak to Fairy but I haven't had trouble with them.....yet

Super cookie cutter I know but this is my first team so I just wanted to get a feel for the real Battle Spot (instead of Showdown Battle Spot) and when I first started breeding I wanted to get a bunch of reliable staples before moving onto more quirky stuff. Want to try Aegislash, Heracross, Scizor, Pinsir, and Reuniclus because I'm scared of Breloom and I've wanted to use it.

Sorry, replying on my phone so I can't chop out just the Charizard part, but my dragon dance Charizard X has been doing a ton of work for me lately. I run adamant with 252 in attack and speed, but I think I might switch to jolly as I found out the hard way that Jolly max speed Excadrill outspeeds adamant Charizard X. I use the basic set of dragon dance, earthquake, flare blitz, outrage. I like outrage over dragon claw because I really don't see a ton of fairies and prefer the additional power it brings.

 

[Wishy]

Sorry, replying on my phone so I can't chop out just the Charizard part, but my dragon dance Charizard X has been doing a ton of work for me lately. I run adamant with 252 in attack and speed, but I think I might switch to jolly as I found out the hard way that Jolly max speed Excadrill outspeeds adamant Charizard X. I use the basic set of dragon dance, earthquake, flare blitz, outrage. I like outrage over dragon claw because I really don't see a ton of fairies and prefer the additional power it brings.

originally I was gonna go with with just max attack and speed but I already have TTar and Chomp as huge nukes. I brought it out to a few battles this morning and it definitely helped, Fire/Dragon has some nice resists and neutrals and I underestimated how strong he really is. I think I might swap out D. Claw or Outrage for Roost. I like the flexibility of not being locked into Outrage, especially paired with Garchomp since 90% of the time I'm clicking Outrage with him anyway.

Who else do you run on your team?

 

[BWong]

originally I was gonna go with with just max attack and speed but I already have TTar and Chomp as huge nukes. I brought it out to a few battles this morning and it definitely helped, Fire/Dragon has some nice resists and neutrals and I underestimated how strong he really is. I think I might swap out D. Claw or Outrage for Roost. I like the flexibility of not being locked into Outrage, especially paired with Garchomp since 90% of the time I'm clicking Outrage with him anyway.

Who else do you run on your team?

Fire/Dragon does have an amazing set of resists, and not being able to be burned is very nice. I tried the bulky Will-O-Wisp set and it did OK, but I felt like it was missing something.

I run him with an Aegislash and a fairy (Clefable or Togekiss). I really like the Steel/Dragon/Fairy cores and the stalwart in my core is Charizard X. I have been considering swapping out Aegislash for Excadrill or Magnezone, but I like having a ghost for Kangaskhan and Gengar.

 

[Mkushrom]

Fire/Dragon does have an amazing set of resists, and not being able to be burned is very nice. I tried the bulky Will-O-Wisp set and it did OK, but I felt like it was missing something.

I run him with an Aegislash and a fairy (Clefable or Togekiss). I really like the Steel/Dragon/Fairy cores and the stalwart in my core is Charizard X. I have been considering swapping out Aegislash for Excadrill or Magnezone, but I like having a ghost for Kangaskhan and Gengar.

Which Clefable and Togekiss sets do you use with Aegislash and Charizard X?

 

[BWong]

Which Clefable and Togekiss sets do you use with Aegislash and Charizard X?

Togekiss: I have been flipping between a choice scarf version and paraflinch. Choice scarf works out a bit better, but either way rock type attacks are screwing me up between him and Charizard.

Clefable: I have tried like 4 different sets. CM, Cosmic/stored power, Magic Guard variants. I just can't seem to find a set that works with the rest fo the team.Either I set up and cause a forfeit or Clefable is utterly useless.

 

[Mooglegamer]

New to the scene so I guess a "HAI GUYZ!" is in order. After lurking in the forums for a while I built this team on PS hoping to have some success:

Dragonite @ Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Mild Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunder
- Earthquake
- Hurricane

Forretress
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Light Screen

Ludicolo
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Ice Beam
- Giga Drain
- Double-Edge
- Leech Seed

Blastoise @ Damp Rock
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Mild Nature
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Earthquake

Talonflame @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Brave Bird
- Substitute
- Quick Attack

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Swagger
- Foul Play
- Pain Split

Haven't won very many games with these guys so I came here for some critique.

 

[Ambrogi94]

Hello everyone, first of all I apologize for my bad English, I'm Italian and still do not learn English perfectly.

In my career as a coach I played only the UU tier, now I want to learn to play in the half battle special spot, tips to get started?

 

[EnGarde]

Hello everyone, first of all I apologize for my bad English, I'm Italian and still do not learn English perfectly.

In my career as a coach I played only the UU tier, now I want to learn to play in the half battle special spot, tips to get started?

Hi! Welcome to Battle Spot!

The current special rated ladder is 4v4 doubles "UU", where the top 19 most used pokemon from the regular doubles ladder are banned, so I think that's definitely a good fit for you. We have a thread for talking about this in further detail. You can find it here. I'd recommend reading it, and posting further questions there. :)

Good luck!

---

New to the scene so I guess a "HAI GUYZ!" is in order. After lurking in the forums for a while I built this team on PS hoping to have some success:

Dragonite @ Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Mild Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunder
- Earthquake
- Hurricane

Forretress
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Light Screen

Ludicolo
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Ice Beam
- Giga Drain
- Double-Edge
- Leech Seed

Blastoise @ Damp Rock
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Mild Nature
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Earthquake

Talonflame @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Brave Bird
- Substitute
- Quick Attack

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Swagger
- Foul Play
- Pain Split

Haven't won very many games with these guys so I came here for some critique.

Welcome to smogon!

It would help if you described which format you're playing, as each one is very different. Also, if you could briefly explain why you chose each pokemon and what role they serve on the team, that'd help us give better advice.

At a glance, I would recommend using multiscale dragonite instead of inner focus dragonite. It makes it much tankier.

Entry hazards (forretress with spikes/toxic spikes) aren't very useful in battle spot, since switching is much more limited in all battle spot formats. The only hazard generally worth using is stealth rock, and only to counter talonflame and charizard.

Also, why so many mixed attackers? Generally most pokemon focus on their strongest attacking stat, and only use moves on that side. By going mixed, you're nerfing one of your defensive stats, which makes your pokemon very frail.

Flame body talonflame? Much better option: gale wings talonflame holding a choice band. Talonflame is too frail to effectively use flame body.