The Current ShoddyBattle Metagame

[Dragontamer]

I'd like to discuss the current ShoddyBattle Metagame that is going on. In the past few battles, it seems like "Set-up" leads are very very common. What I mean is a Lead who has some sort of set-up.

Most Swampert leads have Stealth rocks. Bronzong does nothing but set-up with Hypnosis, Stealth Rock, Trick Room or some weather effect. Both Gyarados and T-Tar leads tends to Dragon Dance / Taunt. Gengars have hypnosis and the occasional Crobat has obviously... hypnosis. Ninjask also makes the occasional appearance.

I'd think that this is the cause of the highly offensive leads that used to occur. All the above leads can take a hit from what used to be old leads like Weavile, and setting up while the opponent either switches out or does little damage.

I'm testing a few anti-lead pokemon to take advantage of this... but first, does anyone else share my experience? I wouldn't say offensive leads are dead, just in the current metagame, "setup" leads tend to break the offensive lead. Playing rock when everyone is playing paper is a bad idea.

 

[Akayfortyseven]

Sounds like Choice Specs Sceptile could be a nice lead. Its fast, hits hard with Leafstorm, Hp fire etc, and could potentially do a large hit on everything you mentioned bar Crobat (without hp ice).

 

[ZinkOxide]

I have indeed noticed a lot of set up leads. I think the key is that people are so used to having certain leads that scare tons of stuff away that they can set up on the switch. Of course, they're partly right, seeing as if you can't OHKO most of these leads (or have at least a SE move against them) they can sweep teams.

 

[RaikouLover]

Choice Specs leads seem great anti-leads because they aren't affected by intimidate and can still do major damage.

 

[Irizz]

CSpecs Sceptile isn't really a nice lead as Jask murders him with X-scissor even without beneficial nature. These leads are indeed very common and I believe this is so because people like to set-up early to sweep. Right now I would say that Hippowdon(stealth rock and SS),Swampert(stealth rock),Bronzong(TR,SR,Hypnosis) are the most common leads I have run through at the moment.

 

[Sylver]

You forgot Yanmega, it's a common lead and it is a pain...

I suppose a decent set-up counter lead could be Milotic (either version, but I lean toward Restalker). It was pretty common in ADV as a lead, and it fares well against status, stealth rock users and sandstream users.

Choice leads could work, since the usual leads in the past were the likes of Scarfcross or Life Orb Weavile. Not many setup leads would like CB Slaking, although he'd have to beware of faster status users.

Hmm, looks like Spinners, pHazers and even clerics (not as a lead of course, but in general) could be making a return...this is becoming like ADV, I mean ADV return is even complete with Skarmbliss and a TBoah-type surprise counterpart...

 

[General Tso]

Seen waaaaaaayy too many Swampert leads, makes me wanna run HP Grass on my Jolteon just to kill it >.>

Some teams seem to run Swampert leads but still have Tyranitar back up, would've thought it was the other way around.

 

[RaikouLover]

I just thought of a random experimental Milotic lead that sounds lol

Milotic @ Choice Specs
Nature: Modest
Max Special Attack
*Hydro Pump / Surf
*Ice Beam
*Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
*Sleep Talk

Hydro Pump will OHKO a lot of fragile things. Ice Beam takes down Jask and Salamence. Hidden Power if your having Swampert / Gyarados problems, as well as other bulky waters. Sleep Talk for Gengar, Breloom, Bronzong, etc. if any of them are foolish enough to activate marvel scale.

Sounds gimmicky, but Modest Milotic gets 328 special attack and is already a pain to take down.

 

[Surgo]

Fortunately, these "set-up leads" are pathetically easy to deal with unless it's solely to set up Stealth Rock.

A trend I've noticed on Shoddybattle is that just about everyone's team is horrendously stallable, leading me to rack up a 45-2 record with my stall team so far (I am, or was, Nivire). For all the vaunted anti-stall measures introduced in DP, very few people seem to be implementing any of them.

 

[Irizz]

I have found stalling to be effective as well.(I have plans on designing a full stall team myself). Anyways the Milotic lead could work but there are a little flaws. IB isn't gonna kill Jask as his sub comes faster. I have faced a couple of Mence with FS and seeing milotic practically screams at Mence to switch out. HP Grass and Elec however may catch you opponent off guard. HP elec more so than grass as when Gyara sees you it will usually taunt first thinking you run the standard or atleast have a status move.

 

[Dragontamer]

/\ I have noticed the stall thing as well. Most good battlers I come across have Bliss + Cresselia presumably because stalling is working in the current metagame.

Hell, I'm stalling opponents with Togekiss, a pokemon weak to BoltBeam. (which prompted me to make the defensive Togekiss topic). You don't even need Blissey/Cresselia to stall most of the teams out there.

 

[Irizz]

bad thing with pokemon like Bliss,Cress and Noir is they are easily taunted to oblivion meaning you're opponent gets a free stat-up or even stat-ups to the max.

 

[ZinkOxide]

/\ I have noticed the stall thing as well. Most good battlers I come across have Bliss + Cresselia presumably because stalling is working in the current metagame.

Hell, I'm stalling opponents with Togekiss, a pokemon weak to BoltBeam. (which prompted me to make the defensive Togekiss topic). You don't even need Blissey/Cresselia to stall most of the teams out there.

Suicune is another I've seen, with like Rest/Surf/CM/Sleep Talk.

 

[Karrot]

The old Crocune...gotta love that thing. A very powerful tool for stall teams, too, especially with all the low pp moves that have been introduced.

Dusknoir has some fun, too. =)

 

[porygon3]

bad thing with pokemon like Bliss,Cress and Noir is they are easily taunted to oblivion meaning you're opponent gets a free stat-up or even stat-ups to the max.

Or you can switch to a counter to their pokemon so they can't do that, instead of leaving the Taunted pokemon in.

 

[Rezileen]

I've found none of those leads the topic creator listed really pose that much of a threat besides Gengar and that's only because of Hypnosis and its diversity.

Swampert, Hippowdon, Gyarados, Bronzong, Weavile, and Gengar are the most common leads I've seen. One would think Gengar leads would be uncommon due to Weavile's popularity but it actually makes a dangerous lead. SubGengar leads cough*Great Sage*cough have caused me a great deal of annoyance. The other leads I've listed save for Gyarados fail to set up once taunted. Gyarados isn't that hard to deal with.

I've also noticed the stalling trend. I've faced alot of CM+STalk Cune and Cress lately. All of these stall teams though seem to have a big weakness to MixApe.

 

[Bologo]

In Shoddybattle, there's a big amount of surprise factor because people are trying new things as they don't need to do extensive breeding or soft-reseting for what they want to use.

I agree with the incredibly high amount of Swampert and Bronzong leads. Although, I usually see A LOT more Bronzong than Swampert. There's also a huge amount of Brelooms for some reason.

In the matches I've played, it seems that once I screw over the Blissey or Cresselia that seems to be on everyone's team, I can win just fine. I just screw them over by tricking a choice item on to them, and they're pretty helpless.

Tyranitar and Rhyperior have completely disappeared for me though...I have no idea why...

 

[daksunt]

Well if you try to get rid of bronzongs,milotics,swamperts and weaviles from lead my dugtrio will slash your face:P I assume arena trap is very useful if the lead environment and dugtrio does that. It deals a lot damage and also you can use it for safekeeping later for revengekill purposes. Rarely failed me. Yes as Surgo said stalling still works in this generation but I would prefer combat more than stalling as it takes many times. I dont want my bronzong to go up against a bronzong with levitate. Also hard and makes you think more about longplay game strategy but I would stick for short battles on netbattlesimulators except for tournaments which we will have after competitor.

 

[Phiphler]

Yeah Rhyperior was an early Sandstorm thing, I lacks crucial support moves such as instant heal, status and Explosion.

Surf/Rest/Sleep Talk/Roar Suicune has increadible potential in a defensive team with SR/Spikes. Just use Aromatherapy Blissey to wake it up.

There is flaws to the whole Void-Shield (cookie if you get that) thinking when making a team, for example, Ive been using Mismagius to destroy teams who switch to a special wall (most noticably Blissey).

CM/Sub/HP[Fight]/Shadow Ball can work beutifully, as it is immune to Seismic Toss, and beats every Blissey but the CM one. Cresselia and Dusknoir have little hope of walling it as well. The only real counter is to switch to Swampert/Suicune and Roar it before it gets to many CMs in, but that rarely happens.

Cresselia... It walls MixApe, Chain Chomp, Life Orb Mence and other mixed sweepers, but strong pursuiters like Weavile/Heracross/Honchkrow can deal with it.

Roar is an invaluable asset to any team, even more so then Rapid Spin or Taunt IMO, but it depens strongly on your team.

 

[General Tso]

Well, unless Cressy carries Psychic, Mixape can stay in and Nasty Plot twice before killing it with Flamethrower, or just Nasty Plot once and use Fire Blast twice, assuming Cressy doesn't have Psychic, which I've seen it hasn't. Most I've seen are like:

Cressy@Leftovers
Ice Beam
Charge Beam
Moonlight
Thunderwave

 

[Ph03n!x-Br]

Batton Pass teams are very common, like the Mean Look - Smeargle one. Snorlax, Ninjask, Hippowdon and Mismagius are used a lot too.

Azumarril is 6-0ing teams with Aqua Jet. Priority moves are a lot better this gen IMO. If you deal around 4% damage to an Alakazam, Azumarril's Aqua Jet WILL KO. Setting up is good in Shoddy, so that's another reason for moves like Aqua Jet, Ice Shard and even Fake Out to be "staples". Oh, Porygon 2 is the best Physical Garchomp / Gyarados / Salamence counter ever. It's cool when you switch into Electivire's Thunderbolt or Vaporeon's Surf... x/

 

[Burn Jack]

Calm Mind seems to be quite popular on Cresselia too atm.

just about everyone's team is horrendously stallable

Yes, I've been having great fun walling things to death with Skarm and Cradily.

 

[Phuquoph]

I think one of the reasons many teams are easily stallable is that people have taken "DP is very offensive based" too far, by assuming they can simply win by brute force and nothing else.

 

[y2zipper]

I like Trick Alakazam as a lead in an environment where set up pokemon tend to lead. It basically says screw you to set-up pokemon if you use choice specs.

It gets owned by Weavile and has to switch against Gengar, but it helps against the other leads mentioned.

 

[Irizz]

Never really experimented with Trick as I couldn't find a reliable one to use(one that can take enough hits to become a serious threat later in the battle). But it might just work Weavile leads are no longer that frequent in fact most of the Weaviles I have faced are in the middle of the battle. But if there is Weavile then pursuit would knock you senseless. Gengar will also predict the switch so it'll most likely use a status move. So I guess TrickZam may work you just need a reliable status absorber/counter to said pokemon.