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Big First Official Smogon Mafia Game: Metagame Mafia - Game Over - Anything Goes Wins!

I'm with zorbees on this one. In a game with everybody having roles (unlike NOC) I see little reason to randlynch. Especially considering the idea behind the vote in NOC is to get information through interactions and association. The likelihood of getting useful information out of a random lynch (especially if it misses) is incredibly low.

vote no lynch
 
this no lynch is shady af

zorbees, twin and acidphoenix all had no problem lynching pokemon trainer BUT the second i switched to macle, all of them made protective/defensive statements - twin asked why the switch, zorbees asked if he claimed, acidphoenix kept highlighting macle to get him to defend himself.

Thetwinmasters:?
MEDAZZALAND:decided i don't like this 1
Thetwinmasters:what kind of village leader
Thetwinmasters:are u
MEDAZZALAND:testing
MEDAZZALAND:1 2 3
phoenix MEDAZZALAND why are we lynching the frog
13:23 MEDAZZALAND no claim yet
13:24 zorbees of any kind?
13:24 MEDAZZALAND n
13:24 zorbees have you contacted him
13:24 MEDAZZALAND n
13:24 phoenix he's on ps! rn
13:25 phoenix @MEDAZZALAND
13:25 MEDAZZALAND he can come to me
13:27 MercuriaDarach what frog
13:27 phoenix macle
13:28 Twin MEDAZZALAND: becoming Sam
13:28 MEDAZZALAND porque
zorbees was further encouraging macle to claim and defend himself besides just badmouthing me in the PS channel as well.

why do they do this for macle but not PT?

i was the original proponent of no lynch: i felt like it was clearly the best move with no info

however the general consensus was NOT to no lynch, but to pick a random, thereby exposing possible village power roles when they needed to claim to save themselves.

jalmont: hello champyeti
jalmont: are you interested in discussing mafia
champyeti: hello yes sir
jalmont: why are we still voting macle
champyeti: why not
champyeti: whats the problem
champyeti: lynchin him
champyeti: got something to hide?

jalmont had been in support of randing people for the lynch but now has an issue with it? interesting.

notice who the first voters on this NL bw are: zorbees, mithril, flyhn, twin, acidphoenix. the 3 very protective people of macle. and also notice how quickly they all agreed to (switch to) no lynch.

imo macle is their strongest mafia role and they want to protect him. especially if he is a mafia sleeper. they also know he is probably not going to care enough about the game to properly defend himself and he clearly had no interest in legitimately discussing his rand with me, rather just throwing shade. why does village!zorbees bother to prompt macle to play right? out of character for him imo.

i just do not like the looks of this. it reeks of scumteam trying to protect a strong but vulnerable role due to the player behind it.

looking for thoughts from others as well as explanations from zorbees, twin, and acidphoenix on why they were so interested in not seeing macle lynched but fine with PT.

twin especially. he was being bandwagoned by randos and very eager to get the lynch off himself. i switch it to PT and he's down. i switch it to macle and suddenly he has a problem with it? it still wasn't him. i just don't see these players playing like they have 0 info as a townie should. why be bothered about one rand and not the other?

also macle claims Sleeper but:
Sleep - You are no longer able to perform actions or post in the thread for two Cycles.
this sounds more like a kidnap which traditionally is more of a mafia role than village imo.
 
yeti can you stop throwing my name under the mud to support your macle lynch, i was never on the pokemon trainer lynch, because by the time i even noticed there was one, it was already gone and onto macle. in these situations, i'm always in favor of allowing the person being randlynched to at least defend themself, so yes, i encouraged macle to claim, because before i posted the no lynch post, i had already commented to a couple people that I thought macle was town by the way he was acting, so i didnt want to see a town player get mislynched without even getting a chance to defend himself.

also i would not be surprised if the village has sleep roles, this game is fucking huge and the village needs some nice roles, its like a more powerful hook
 
I'm never a fan of no lynch, especially not for a game this size. To me, the benefits outweigh the costs. Yes, we don't have a lot to go off since it's only day one but not lynching at all is giving mafia teams free kills with no response. I dunno the situation for this game, but most mafia games I've been a part of have been like 25-33% mafia. If that holds true that means we have like 15-20 bad guys in this game. I think it's worth it to take a shot in the dark. Yes we risk killing a townsman but because the town is being represented by lower tier Pokemon, I think the chances of us hitting someone with a really good or critically important role are low. Not hopping on the no lynch train, still keeping my vote with macle.
 
zorbees i don't cite my suspicion on you to your involvement in the PT lynch but rather your prompting macle to defend himself repeatedly and you asking me if he had claimed when i proposed the lynch before he had done his "lynch me i hate yeti" resign. i just don't see you being so curious and encouraging if you are village. i mean last game you sat on a scum inspection while a mislynch went down so i just feel like you jumping to defend someone is really suspicious for you.

willing to let the town decide this though, with 0 info it's a crapshoot any which way we go.

if people are in favor of lynching macle today on the assumption he is darkrai (ubers sleeper) or breloom (ou spore sleeper), they can vote him

if people would rather no lynch today, they can vote nl

if people would rather i pick a third rand from possible suspicious activity, they can request it but you know it's gonna result in the same thing as macle, a 'strong village role' that will make me look scummy and suspicious af to mislynch =\
 
mareep.jpg



this is what yall are, even the ones that jumped on the nl

also when i die and im the only town sleeper, i hope you all cry at night for losing my amazing ability. Actually i hope yall cry at night because im an angry fella

packers > seahawks
 
if anyone hasn't claimed or spoken to me yet please feel free to pm me on smogon overnight. i will start hitting people up to chat when i wake up/at work tomorrow night as well to get their input on the lynch!

again the four options are:
no lynch
lynch macle under the assumption he is breloom (ou sleeper) or darkrai (ubers sleeper)
pick a new rand (and most likely get another claim of a 'strong village role' bc wynaut)
catch a scumslip and lynch them

with no other info it seems best to discuss viewpoints in this thread or with me to mull over. i don't think village leader is particularly effective in a blind OC lynch so i leave it up to the town to say what they want to do. i will pick a new rand if that's the desired outcome for this lynch from people without claims or possibly suspicious activity, should any emerge.
 
o also people i have spoken to feel free to weigh in on the lynch as well! i will be sending out suggestions for targets tomorrow (hope this is enough time for everyone) so if you'd like to know a general use for your action but don't want to get specific, let me know if it's harmful, harmless, informational so i can try to direct you as best as possible!
 
djanxo unchained said:
I'm never a fan of no lynch, especially not for a game this size. To me, the benefits outweigh the costs. Yes, we don't have a lot to go off since it's only day one but not lynching at all is giving mafia teams free kills with no response. I dunno the situation for this game, but most mafia games I've been a part of have been like 25-33% mafia. If that holds true that means we have like 15-20 bad guys in this game. I think it's worth it to take a shot in the dark. Yes we risk killing a townsman but because the town is being represented by lower tier Pokemon, I think the chances of us hitting someone with a really good or critically important role are low. Not hopping on the no lynch train, still keeping my vote with macle.
Click to expand...

yeah this post by phoopes is correct, no lynch is always wrong. if we slip up, we slip up - but this is c1 not n0, there are gonna be kills tonight and we can't miss our opportunity (barring vig roles) to get a bad guy lynched

vote macle
 
Ok so I originally voted macle because I felt like his response of "just lynch me" without even talking to yeti was dumb and that either he was a weak villager who didn't care or was mafia with no claim prepared. I'm gonna continue to lynch macle because I feel like we have a fair amount to gain and not as much to lose as it may initially seem.

The main issue with lynching him imo is the possibility that he is actually a village sleeper, which is definitely a legit possibility (i'm pretty sure i remember just as many village kidnappers as mafia announcers and people always think that's ok lol). However, I feel like the usefulness of this role is diminished by it being out in the open: macle will maybe get a sleep off tonight, but after that he's going to be either hooked or killed very quickly, and while we may be able to protect him at first, it means that village power roles are pretty telegraphed early on, which is non ideal imo.

On the other hand, I'm definitely willing to give some weight to Yeti's theory about people who quickly switched to no lynch, and a mafia flip for macle would definitely implicate some the users she mentioned (maybe enough to prioritise them as inspection targets for real). Plus, we would've killed a bad guy lol.

Comparing this to no lynch (0 risk 0 reward), it seems like a pretty fucking huge improvement to me! I guess we could pick a new rand but i don't really like the idea of prompting what could well be another pubclaim.
 
Kinda disappeared for a bit, sorry; but I really dislike 72-hour phases, fortunately the rest of the game will be 48. Also I'm kinda doing other stuff so I'm not too active in the chat either. If you really want me for something hit me with a PM here please.

I guess we have good reason from the chat to lynch macle? Parasect nameclaim doesn’t mean much by itself.

I don’t like No Lynch, yet I think scum!zorbees wouldn’t’ defend scum!macle that hard, guess they are not in the same team. Acidphoenix is another good wagon I don’t like their jumpiness either.

In fact I don’t like No Lynch as a policy ever and I don’t like how people pushed for it that much either… especially acidphoenix who looks extremely opportunistic.

Not feeling too well about lynching macle with so many people going after him, most of the time the wagons that inflate easily are on town. So

VOTE: acidphoenix
 
Eh my gut reads acidphoenix as trying to help out with randwagoning/testing whatever agenda Yeti has. I don't think wagon speed means much in NOC (It really depends on the group) and in a 58 person outside communication game where a few people can agree off chat before votes get posted it means even less.

Parasect nameclaim means a lot because we know what sleep does and it's really strong. Whether this role is village or mafia it is dangerous. You've got to consider a few things when dealing with this.

-What tools do we have to clear macle in the future? A type checker for example could easily differentiate him from the common OU and Uber counter parts. Reading Yeti's posts it doesn't look like she has much of a plan for this, however, and I dislike motivating people away from trying to prove Yeti's claim. There is no Night 0. No one has proof. But as a twin, she's given us no way to prove her without outside checking. Even macle could prove his role (if not necessarily his alignment) just by putting someone to sleep.

-How are the mafia going to react to a claimed village sleeper? This is a PR. The hook is delayed so it's not stopping a lot of kills, but in Endgame this would have been very nice to keep alive when we have a lot better idea of the mafia numbers/specific roles, plus getting rid of the vote is more relevant. There may not be a lot of risk associated with this lynch now that the info is out, and if Macle is Parasect it's probably going to take a lot of investment to keep him alive. On the flipside, that investment may be well worth it as a way to mindgame to protect other PRs and save an important role from dying before he's needed.

No Lynch is not a great idea because the mafia are already outkilling us.

I put little stock in NOC logic and tactics (in an OC game) or 2 day early randwagons (Did anyone actually take the Pokemon Trainer lynch seriously?). The fact is I was hoping that something more solid would crop up day 1 and I think the way Yeti's handling all this is very detached. If my choice is macle, no lynch, or a randwagon of my choice based on some post, I'd pick macle but that's got enough pressure for now and I want to see if something better crops up by this evening.
 
Yeti said:
zorbees i don't cite my suspicion on you to your involvement in the PT lynch but rather your prompting macle to defend himself repeatedly and you asking me if he had claimed when i proposed the lynch before he had done his "lynch me i hate yeti" resign. i just don't see you being so curious and encouraging if you are village. i mean last game you sat on a scum inspection while a mislynch went down so i just feel like you jumping to defend someone is really suspicious for you.
Click to expand...

I'm always going to act different when I am the inspector compared to when I am not. Last game I really wanted penguin lynched as opposed to the other rogue claim, but IIRC it all happened very quickly while I was offline. At least those lynches had substance behind them, although I guess this "sleep" claim is some substance surrounding macle, whether you want to believe he is scum or not.

Honestly, I generally find that when people don't really defend themselves from a lynch with very little proof, most of the time they are town. This is not based on any evidence but I feel like that is how it goes more often than not.

In terms of the "we shouldn't waste this opportunity because mafias can already start killing", I feel like all we're going to do is lynch a townie and make that mafia kill lead grow even larger.
 
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