NOC Deathnote NOC Mafia - GAME OVER, Postgame in #714

[Josh]

id also like to point out there is no gain to lurking if you have a good pr or whatever other reason you may have, because scum dont pick a person to kill each night, its vastly different here. everyone should be actively posting and being pro-town, there is 0 reason to throw shade on yourself (though in role madness games it is generally dumb regardless).

 

[MoodyCloud]

Do we go with "do what you want and claim/fakeclaim/counterclaim as you will" or do we all agree that never fakeclaiming as town might allow us to never end up in a scneario where town has to cc its own?

 

[Josh]

we go with neither

all situations are situational. the solution is that nobody should EVER claim ANYTHING except for merlin if deathnote is lynched early & the numbers call for it - this is unlikely to even occur because dethnote + 1 other mafia would need to be gone in the first, like, 3/4 cycles for it to even be relevant numbers wise.

IF someone claims theyre probably scum and we lynch. nobody should cc, usually. again, these are hypotheticals that should never happen, claiming is anti town behavior. treat this thread like an all vanilla setup while scumhunting imho.

 

[MoodyCloud]

Yeah that's pretty much what I had in mind with the 2nd scenario, I just want to make sure nobody tries fakeclaiming as town when they're being voted.

 

[Thetwinmasters]

man this discussion has turned into useless shit about claiming instead of scumreads and townreads.
Lynch Haruno

 

[Josh]

Twin I'll ask again

What prompted you to vote Texas?

 

[dopog]

Morning : ) [at least for some people]

Any actual reads MoodyCloud?

Also Asek and pancake your posts are very anti-claiming, etc., you spent a lot of time talking about those things and not making comments about people's alignment. Really want to hear more evaluative stances.

I haven't really thought too hard about Aura's response on page 5 (though I didn't really like talking about being one of a few people to vote them), but I voted them because I thought that their post (which Josh has targeted) voting Hitmonleet and 'fos'ing Texas seemed like an overjustification of voting someone who did some silly things with the 'even though it was quoted' and the tension between voting hitmonleet and Texas. If you're the type of player that pushes no lynchers/newer players with bad play you're a bit more blunt about it. It reads as opportunistic trying to disguise itself as well-reasoned.

I read Josh as slight town; a lot because pushing aura and seeing the possible scum motivation for aura's vote of hitmonleet. I think I also I default to reading that kind of aggressiveness as town (not that I necessarily like it).

KnightsofCydonia; RQS
I figure you answered my q so it's probably cool to get yours,
my answer to the first two questions are probably similar; use your vote, a lot of tagging of people to try get their attention.
In the first scenario I'd work really hard at wording a case concisely and poignantly so that people know who to vote for. I'd likely skim read in the second scenario where I'll skip any post longer than a screen width.

The things that I think are most relevant are scumhunting (55%) and luck (20%). Luck mostly because an integral part of this game (kill mechanism) is guessing. I like teamwork in many games, but I don't know how helpful it is here (as in no more than 15% kinda thing). Power roles (10%) have never been my thing but obviously have a variance in usefulness depending on gamestate and then also scumhunting and luck again.

I dislike toxicity, and I care less if it's helpful for scumhunting, it 'probably' 'helps' 'some' people - though it definitely doesn't help me.

 

[Josh]

This game is a good exercise in scum hunting. And, starting tomorrow, we're going to have to read if pushes are from cops who have a guilty and read between the lines for an example. This is a hard game for newbies to play.

Gronk, just a general point: aggressiveness is commonly town on this site from what ive seen but keep in mind at least 3 people in this thread come to mind that'd be aggressive as either alignment (Texas haruno and Asek) along with twin and myself to a degree. Personality and confidence are are bigger factors in aggressiveness than alignment.

 

[dopog]

I'm really null-maybe maybe slight town on Texas, looks like they picked up on some things that were null, able to be spun as scum. Don't really see the accused misdirection on Josh's part, and don't see how not giving justification is a scum tell. But I can see how a lot of it, and particularly their disdain for perceiving that they're being condescended to, is not alignment indicative.

Josh; yeah I think the aggressiveness = slight town is a bias that I have, for most players it really is more player/personality-indicative than role/alignment indicative.

Also Josh, What did you think of Mithril's last post?

 

[Josh]

Texas is town please trust me on that. His posts rn aren't worth much due to the tunnelling but he's like 80% town to me aka pretty strong


http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/deathnote-noc-mafia-day-1.3591164/page-5#post-7162161
I've already replied to mithrils post

 

[dopog]

Yep, true.
But to be clear, I was wondering more regarding if you thought it said anything about Mithril's alignment, rather than your response to what was being said about you + hitmonleet + Haruno?


Do you have any other (strong) reads Thetwinmasters ?

 

[Josh]

Mithrils null, maybe VERY slight town. Haruno is town. Hitmonleet is slight town due to how confident I am aura is scum.

Blazade vc?

 

[Blazade]

When i get out of work and it's not the clunkiest thing in the world to do

 

[Blazade]

VOTE COUNT 1.0: Countin' votes

Aura Guardian(3): Josh, Gronkasaurus Rex, Mithril
Josh(2): Aura Guardian, Texas Cloverleaf
pancake(1): acidphoenix
Haruno(1): Thetwinmasters

 

[Thetwinmasters]

how come josh flips his opinion on claiming so quick

 

[Thetwinmasters]

Twin I'll ask again

What prompted you to vote Texas?

Being over defensive and saying a lot of words but not actually saying much of substance

 

[Thetwinmasters]

Vote MoodyCloud
Comes in makes 2 crappy posts about a useless subject in claiming then dips out
also Blank Slate2356 you better be making some posts soon

 

[Thetwinmasters]

actually lets do this
Vote Acidphoenix

 

[Mithril]

it doesnt matter. merlin outs 3 townies. in exchange, we get rid of two scum. i thought about it though - merlin shouldnt claim until deathnote is lynched. at that point analyze the situation. mafia look REALLY powerful in this setup but whatever. however, i still think haruno's discussion of it is pro-town in essence.

Quick response to this. All Merlin claiming actually does is is narrow down the 3 town players to three roles and allows mafia to investigate them for future kills. They don't even need to kill them now, and honestly probably wouldn't since it would out the mafia in that group. If they leave all 5 alive than town gets people CCing each other with no info and we have to hope we get lucky while allowing the Mafia to greatly narrow down their permutations. Just not a good idea.

 

[Josh]

Being over defensive and saying a lot of words but not actually saying much of substance

Thank u


I didn't really have a stance on claiming. See, I had read the rules. Ngl I would've most likely slipped and claimed, because initially looking at the math 2 scum for 3 town is very appealing. However, number wise claiming is actually really bad due to just how much scum can narrow down - the two town aren't even a 50/50 cus of the second guess. Merlin claiming in any scenario other than deathnote-noc-mafia-day getting lynched early is catastrophic. There were good argument brought up about this - my point tho is I think harunos discussion is pro town and he shouldn't be sus for it. There's a ton of newbies in this game, even including myself and Texas depending how far you wanna go, and it's not as obvious merlin claiming is a bad idea as you'd think, so it's good they can see this if one of them were to be merlin. I've already said this but this game is a very hard first game.

 

[Mithril]

the situation should read as hitmonleet looking townier and me looking scummier for whiteknighting

why did i jump to his aid? im relatively new here too. after playing on ms i realized just how much different smogon noc is; people here need to rely on meta less. but the point is, hitmonleet did a good job baiting scum, even though im 95% sure thats unintentional and just newbie being newbie. remember hoods everyone? where i was scum and pushed dentricos really hard for editing? and that person in question was also newb. now, dentricos ended up being vamp, but thats not really the point!

people are misinterpreting me i think. i dont read hitmonleet as townie, though aura flipping as scum would make him pretty clear town imo. i think texas is very likely town, and just tunnelling because hes a newer player while being a person who has an ego (hey condescending police, thats not an insult! its ok to have an ego!) outside of mafia regardless. hes going to admit hes wrong eventually, for now its pretty much just worth ignoring him. dont vote texas, though, itll click eventually. haruno is town because of the town in his discussion. as scum he would not be playing for a merlin claim like that, its not worth drawing the attention to yourself. most of the pl is lurking and the two non-aura scum are in that. the funny thing is i agree with texas, asek's post had a scummy tone to it. but randomly fosing is useless and for now im very very confident aura is flipping red so id rather we focus on that.

As for this post, you can't have it both ways. You say the situation should read as Hitmonleet looking townier but then turn around and state that you down read him as town. I'm still not sure what to think on Hitmonleet outside of his being new, but your continued defense of him (while also attempting to distance yourself really bothers me).

Now for Haruno, I actually think he is likely town due to his post 40 where he asks Blazade about how the mafia kill works (submitting everybody as Merlin). One, this is again in the rules (READ THE DAMN RULES PEOPLE), but two if he were scum he has scumchat to discuss the kill and really has no reason to ask how it works. I strongly disagree with this plan, but I think he is just a misguided town with a bad plan.

All that being said though, I'm going to vote asek for now. He has two posts, and all he really talked about was being against claiming and thought Twin was town just because they agreed on claiming. Some actual thoughts on players would be nice.

 

[Thetwinmasters]

I'd have a much more concrete opinion of haruno but he has disappeared which makes me lean more scummy on him

 

[Thetwinmasters]

Hi acidphoenix I saw you viewing the thread make a post

 

[Josh]

I'd have a much more concrete opinion of haruno but he has disappeared which makes me lean more scummy on him

This is also true (replying to you next mithril)

 

[Josh]

As for this post, you can't have it both ways. You say the situation should read as Hitmonleet looking townier but then turn around and state that you down read him as town. I'm still not sure what to think on Hitmonleet outside of his being new, but your continued defense of him (while also attempting to distance yourself really bothers me).

Now for Haruno, I actually think he is likely town due to his post 40 where he asks Blazade about how the mafia kill works (submitting everybody as Merlin). One, this is again in the rules (READ THE DAMN RULES PEOPLE), but two if he were scum he has scumchat to discuss the kill and really has no reason to ask how it works. I strongly disagree with this plan, but I think he is just a misguided town with a bad plan.

All that being said though, I'm going to vote asek for now. He has two posts, and all he really talked about was being against claiming and thought Twin was town just because they agreed on claiming. Some actual thoughts on players would be nice.

I am saying Hitmonleet should look townier to the rest of you. If one of us two is scum it's me and we almost definitely aren't both scum (ya ya I can't accurately judge mtself). I have him as slight townie lean for unintentionally baiting scum and how replies were; he has still barely done anything else in this game and is not relevant enough a poster to have a concrete read on. Also jsyk scum can easily ask qs like that, again in hoods iirc as scum I asked about scum rules in the thread simply to look townier, much to the mods dismay.

Also, your vote on asek is good. I'll cautiously move mithril into my townie pile with Texas and Haruno. We are developing a group here.