Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion

Ladder usage stats for April:

Code:
 + ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- + 
 | Rank | Pokemon            | Usage %   | Raw    | %       | Real   | %       | 
 + ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- + 
 | 1    | Landorus-Therian   | 24.14179% | 185436 | 15.249% | 161168 | 17.416% | 
 | 2    | Tapu Lele          | 14.06045% | 93877  |  7.720% | 72107  |  7.792% | 
 | 3    | Raging Bolt        | 13.20584% | 91812  |  7.550% | 67437  |  7.287% | 
 | 4    | Tapu Koko          | 13.16791% | 101261 |  8.327% | 84714  |  9.154% | 
 | 5    | Ferrothorn         | 12.50477% | 134642 | 11.072% | 112483 | 12.155% | 
 | 6    | Corviknight        | 12.22425% | 91724  |  7.543% | 71873  |  7.767% | 
 | 7    | Urshifu-Rapid-Strike | 12.20846% | 107398 |  8.832% | 82959  |  8.965% | 
 | 8    | Alomomola          | 11.99846% | 92533  |  7.609% | 72364  |  7.820% | 
 | 9    | Heatran            | 11.95741% | 97459  |  8.014% | 78261  |  8.457% | 
 | 10   | Dragonite          | 11.24400% | 103935 |  8.547% | 73368  |  7.928% | 
 | 11   | Iron Crown         | 10.58817% | 61495  |  5.057% | 46472  |  5.022% | 
 | 12   | Gliscor            | 10.56778% | 110034 |  9.048% | 88519  |  9.565% | 
 | 13   | Great Tusk         | 10.18992% | 94980  |  7.810% | 69623  |  7.523% | 
 | 14   | Zamazenta          | 10.08632% | 56072  |  4.611% | 39801  |  4.301% | 
 | 15   | Ogerpon-Wellspring |  9.78649% | 71902  |  5.913% | 52757  |  5.701% | 
 | 16   | Scizor-Mega        |  9.51121% | 82236  |  6.762% | 63659  |  6.879% | 
 | 17   | Iron Valiant       |  9.10679% | 75063  |  6.173% | 51864  |  5.604% | 
 | 18   | Slowking-Galar     |  9.08752% | 74213  |  6.103% | 58918  |  6.367% | 
 | 19   | Darkrai            |  9.04652% | 75549  |  6.213% | 57108  |  6.171% | 
 | 20   | Iron Treads        |  8.46004% | 56165  |  4.619% | 45851  |  4.955% | 
 | 21   | Zapdos             |  8.11914% | 69948  |  5.752% | 55921  |  6.043% | 
 | 22   | Rillaboom          |  7.99908% | 72970  |  6.001% | 55457  |  5.993% | 
 | 23   | Volcarona          |  7.54441% | 86926  |  7.148% | 61044  |  6.596% | 
 | 24   | Clodsire           |  7.39252% | 59624  |  4.903% | 45295  |  4.895% | 
 | 25   | Garchomp           |  7.08947% | 84025  |  6.910% | 66314  |  7.166% | 
 | 26   | Garganacl          |  7.05772% | 72745  |  5.982% | 55123  |  5.957% | 
 | 27   | Charizard-Mega-Y   |  6.87485% | 80496  |  6.619% | 63564  |  6.869% | 
 | 28   | Moltres            |  6.86548% | 53565  |  4.405% | 42686  |  4.613% | 
 | 29   | Kyurem             |  6.67101% | 42864  |  3.525% | 31965  |  3.454% | 
 | 30   | Hatterene          |  6.58108% | 60718  |  4.993% | 45871  |  4.957% | 
 | 31   | Gouging Fire       |  6.54490% | 55525  |  4.566% | 40213  |  4.345% | 
 | 32   | Samurott-Hisui     |  6.51023% | 52125  |  4.286% | 43699  |  4.722% | 
 | 33   | Toxapex            |  6.36404% | 68045  |  5.596% | 52297  |  5.651% | 
 | 34   | Pelipper           |  6.36345% | 68377  |  5.623% | 62512  |  6.755% | 
 | 35   | Glimmora           |  6.13009% | 61041  |  5.020% | 54734  |  5.915% | 
 | 36   | Hoopa-Unbound      |  5.65802% | 36326  |  2.987% | 26216  |  2.833% | 
 | 37   | Diancie-Mega       |  5.64816% | 49219  |  4.047% | 40015  |  4.324% | 
 | 38   | Serperior          |  5.54156% | 67440  |  5.546% | 49004  |  5.295% | 
 | 39   | Banette-Mega       |  5.34146% | 48627  |  3.999% | 35657  |  3.853% | 
 | 40   | Kartana            |  5.21819% | 63609  |  5.231% | 46900  |  5.068% | 
 | 41   | Ceruledge          |  5.17746% | 58083  |  4.776% | 43811  |  4.734% | 
 | 42   | Lopunny-Mega       |  5.15374% | 70093  |  5.764% | 55575  |  6.005% | 
 | 43   | Archaludon         |  5.03398% | 59208  |  4.869% | 46741  |  5.051% | 
 | 44   | Mawile-Mega        |  5.01061% | 49254  |  4.050% | 37139  |  4.013% | 
 | 45   | Ursaluna           |  4.93745% | 35585  |  2.926% | 27463  |  2.968% | 
 | 46   | Swampert-Mega      |  4.90236% | 48777  |  4.011% | 37990  |  4.105% | 
 | 47   | Dondozo            |  4.52784% | 29105  |  2.393% | 19957  |  2.157% | 
 | 48   | Tyranitar-Mega     |  4.31465% | 31678  |  2.605% | 25599  |  2.766% | 
 | 49   | Ting-Lu            |  3.98769% | 22798  |  1.875% | 19112  |  2.065% | 
 | 50   | Slowbro            |  3.98130% | 27234  |  2.240% | 21618  |  2.336% | 
 | 51   | Iron Boulder       |  3.81547% | 26005  |  2.138% | 18030  |  1.948% | 
 | 52   | Excadrill          |  3.79111% | 39025  |  3.209% | 29804  |  3.221% | 
 | 53   | Blissey            |  3.62448% | 29793  |  2.450% | 22365  |  2.417% | 
 | 54   | Greninja           |  3.61930% | 52697  |  4.333% | 39127  |  4.228% | 
 | 55   | Medicham-Mega      |  3.57801% | 29326  |  2.412% | 23186  |  2.505% | 
 | 56   | Kommo-o            |  3.31929% | 39334  |  3.235% | 29110  |  3.146% | 
 | 57   | Tornadus-Therian   |  3.26065% | 26966  |  2.217% | 20395  |  2.204% | 
 | 58   | Venusaur-Mega      |  3.24507% | 33179  |  2.728% | 26241  |  2.836% | 
 | 59   | Hawlucha           |  3.23059% | 25410  |  2.090% | 18072  |  1.953% | 
 | 60   | Skeledirge         |  3.08661% | 36551  |  3.006% | 27613  |  2.984% | 
 | 61   | Tyranitar          |  2.97156% | 35829  |  2.946% | 28810  |  3.113% | 
 | 62   | Weavile            |  2.86126% | 34274  |  2.818% | 25082  |  2.710% | 
 | 63   | Aegislash          |  2.79553% | 41059  |  3.376% | 30749  |  3.323% | 
 | 64   | Chansey            |  2.77563% | 26769  |  2.201% | 20134  |  2.176% | 
 | 65   | Tapu Fini          |  2.74576% | 25632  |  2.108% | 20535  |  2.219% | 
 | 66   | Barraskewda        |  2.73977% | 23509  |  1.933% | 17859  |  1.930% | 
 | 67   | Sableye-Mega       |  2.62179% | 21216  |  1.745% | 18655  |  2.016% | 
 | 68   | Ribombee           |  2.58771% | 28313  |  2.328% | 24645  |  2.663% | 
 | 69   | Sinistcha          |  2.56281% | 18786  |  1.545% | 14233  |  1.538% | 
 | 70   | Gyarados-Mega      |  2.51530% | 25269  |  2.078% | 19245  |  2.080% | 
 | 71   | Torkoal            |  2.48009% | 37086  |  3.050% | 33498  |  3.620% | 
 | 72   | Ogerpon-Cornerstone |  2.40422% | 16397  |  1.348% | 11690  |  1.263% | 
 | 73   | Clefable           |  2.37756% | 27429  |  2.256% | 20093  |  2.171% | 
 | 74   | Ninetales-Alola    |  2.29893% | 31872  |  2.621% | 26677  |  2.883% | 
 | 75   | Grimmsnarl         |  2.22292% | 33728  |  2.774% | 29199  |  3.155% | 
 | 76   | Meowscarada        |  2.19255% | 34064  |  2.801% | 25715  |  2.779% | 
 | 77   | Iron Moth          |  2.14667% | 22099  |  1.817% | 16363  |  1.768% |
 
So it has been a minute... and by that I mean around 2 months...
With the recent suspect of Ogerpon-Wellspring going into effect, I tought I would give my overall opinions on the following subject. I'm going to be talking about the impact is had on game, the reason behing said suspects test, pro bans and pro unbans, and the rise and drop if it were to be banned. So with that, lets jump right in:
View attachment 628728

Ogerpon-Wellspring has been a pretty impactful mon in the meta, do at first it wasn't quite like that since everyone was spamming the daylights out of its Heartflame form. With Heartflame banned and the other two being... not as impactful, this lead into Wellspring finding its place in OU. It's main go to set is a Swords Dance set, which is nothing crazy on the surface, but it becomes more interesting once you dive deeper. At first, it used a combination of Dual Stab, SD and a coverage option. Water and Grass is a very solid Stab combination, only resisted by Grass and Dragon types, which is where its coverage options came into play. Play Rough is a good option to hit Dragons such as Dragonite, Raging Bolt and the later on re-discovered Mega Latias. And Superpower is good to hit Ferrothorn, one of the few good bulky Grass types in the tier. Later on, people explored deeper into its movepool, and started using a utility option rather than a coverage move, since its stab combo was all it mostly needed, and the few defensive checks can be either dealth with another pokemon, passive, or not super viable. Taunt and Encore can shut down defensive checks such as Toxapex and Tera Dragon Alomomola and Glowking to grab opportunities to SD. Subtitute can also be good to blank a status condition like Thunder Wave or Toxic. Another set that was running around, but didn't became nearly as popular was a Pivot set with U-Turn, Taunt, Spikes and Ivy Cudgel. It can take advantage of its checks thinking its an SD set, lay a Spikes down, and then dip with U-turn. However, if all Ogerpon-W had was good offense, it wouldnt be super drastic, as many other mons like Rillaboom and Urshifu possess similar tools, but it can also provide some good defensive values to a team. Now it isn't the bulkiest thing in the world, but it has decent defensive stats where it can at least take a hit or two in a pinch, and because its an Ogerpon, when it Tera it gains +1 in a stat based on its form, in the case of Wellspring it's in Special Defense, that while being a Mono Water, which is one of the best defensive typings, and its give boost to its stab as well, getting the best of both worlds. But perhaps what gives it even more defensive utility is it's ability. Now it may seem funny that a quadruple Water resist needs and immunity, but its more impactful than u think. For one, being immune to Water means you are also immune to Scald, which is a great trait to have for a physical attacker. This also makes it a great mon against rain teams, as they heavily rely on using Water boosted moves which would only heal Ogerpon and completely flip the tables against them. All these combined make for a very deadly mon to take hits from, and the few that can do it are either ruined by its utility move of choice, or are very niche that would be either mid or bad if not for Ogerpon-W running around.

Pro Ban:
-Rain and Defensive teams can have more toom to breathe in their builder.
-Other pokemon with a similar function, can find more usage.

Pro Unban:
-Compare to other Ubers it isnt that strong, and it would likely be stuck in limbo.
-Teams that struggle against it just need to adapt. For example, Rain teams just need to use Archaludon, which they naturally do, and Stall/Fat teams can use options like Tangrowth and Hydrapple.

If it were to be banned, what mons would rise and drop in usage?
Here are my speculations: Some of these are based on mons that would fit the role of Ogerpon in a similar way, whether its a Swords Dancer, a rain Check, and a water immunity. They other rises can be mons that benefit from Rain, and defensive mons that were shut down by Taunt/Encore. Gastrodon is mentioned as a Water immunity, do it serves a completely different role, its immunity can be used in teams that use Ogerpon-W for said immunity. The drops mainly include some of the few mons that could take it one on one, some of which were mainly used to coumter Ogerpon-W. Volcarona was mentioned as not only it can struggle vs rain, but also synergizes greatly with Ogerpon-W as a teammate. All of these are just speculations, so theyre not garanteed to be true.

Rises:
:ogerpon-cornerstone::urshifu-rapid-strike::kartana::rillaboom::kyurem::serperior::pelipper::barraskewda::swampert-mega::toxapex::alomomola::slowking-galar::gastrodon:

Drops:
:tangrowth::dragonite::sinistcha::raging bolt::ferrothorn::archaludon::volcarona::hydrapple:

(Note: Tera Dragon might also see less usage as a result...)

My final verdict:
I probably would be in favor of a ban, as it opens up a possibility of a lot of pokemon seeing more usage, which is always welcome. But im not 100% in favor, i don't think its broken in comparison to the last mons we have banned, and it even fills a solid role that few others could. But for the health of the meta, I think a ban would be the prefered choice. Hope I made myself clear. (Also hope this aint my last time talking here...)
The source of this artwork is " Pokémon, Frillish, Wishiwashi / 深海 - pixiv " for those who are wondering, btw. They post other Ogerpon artwork like this:

1714650926172.png


As for my thoughts on Ogerpon in the tier in general, rain is annoying so I like its MU against it lol, but it probably is a bit too much.
 
I understand that a lot of people look forward to my post and I hope you'll agree with me that the wait was worth it. My reputation is not always easy to sustain, people have high expectations of me and I want to live up to them. Decide for yourself and me if I lived up to my name. I am going to do this a bit differently this time to make this post more receptive and engaging. You'll figure it out : ) enjoy :celebi:

:dialga origin: This may come as a surprise to you since it's gone under the radar ever since it was introduced. Many of you might not even recognize this Pokemon(Dialga-Origin). A staggering 680 BST with good enough distribution for any tier. Dialga-O has great coverage and useful stab combination that allows it to hit fairies and blow up Pokemon who don't resist Dragon. If you can look past it's strengths, it has major flaws holding it back. As a certified doctor, I feel confident to diagnose this Pokemon with FMSS. Another major flaw, Dialga-O is item restricted., meaning it can't change it's item. Simialr to Ogerpon forms but it's item only boost it's stab moves by 1.2x. Dialga's main role would be a bulky offensive Stealth Rocker. Similar to Mega Tyranitar, Dialga hits very hard and is very tanky which allows him to trade well verses offensive Pokemon that'd normally threaten your defenisve core. Dragon Steel is generally a good typing if it's backed by strong offensive stats, it's not 4x weak to anything, it has a lot of great resist that all teams can appreciate and it's capable of living most unboosted neutral and x2 hits when it's healthy.

*technical difficulties*

These calcs are here for reference to help give you an idea how well it's stats hold up verse relevant meta pokemon.

Longevity? Hazards are the most improtant and easiest way to make progress in most 6v6 singles metagames. dialga-O not only lacks the ability to neutralize hazards by wearing boots or mitigating damage with leftovers, but it also has no reliable recovery to compensate for it's hazard weakness. It is worth noting that Dialga-O is immune to toxic which grants it one form of immunity to chip damage. This attribute doesn't make up for it's lack of recovery and hazard weakness, therefore I am giving it a C for longevity.

Unique Traits? Dialga has a bad ability due to the fact it's longevity is poor, generally you aren't going to be stalling pp as a wincon. It has a Generation1 movepool, no notable signatures. Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Stealth Rocks, Thunderwave, Toxic, Eartquake and Earthpower. However, it's move slots are limited due to Stealth Rock being mandatory, you're forced to sacrifice certain matchups based on what you pick. Ice Beam and Thunderbolt will most likely be dropped unless they're used over flash cannon which makes Draco Meteor less threatening against teams with Fairies. I am not doing + or - for these tiers, just S being the highest and D being the lowest. That being said, B for Unique traits.

Versatility? Dialga-O is not versatile at all. It doesn't have viable setup moves like Calm Mind or Nasty Plot and you can't run items on Dialga which removes Choice sets, Z moves out of the equation. I think it would be fairly effecient at what it does anyways so this isn't as critical as the other categories. This is easily it's worse trait, D tier.

Splashable? This section is more theoretical so it shouldn't be taken serious but a Pokemon's splashability contriubtes to it's viability greatly. I mentioned earlier that this Pokemon is comparable to Mega-Tyranitar without Pursuit. Melmetal is perhaps a better comparison (s/o xurk) with Stealth Rocks. All these Pokemon are very good at trading, primarily used on Bulky Offense and Balance. C tier for splashability.

MetaGamerGRRRR? This section is based off how well this Pokemon matches up verses the metagame. I think I speak for everyone that more Steel types ar always welcomed into the tier. Additional Tapu Lele checks and potentially more options for Balance outside of Ferrothorn is more important now than ever because of the recent suspect test results. Dialga-Origin is capable of checking Wellspring similarlly to Ferrothorn but trades Longevity (and Spikes) for a more aggressive Stealth Rocker. Dialga-Origin matches up well verse every Defogger and Rapid Spinner. It can get Stealth Rocks up for it's team and trade well into Great Tusk, Landorus, (Non Z-Fight Torn)Tornadus-Therian, Zapdos, Corviknight etc. I give it S for this section.

Compatible? The section focuses on overlapping slots and team synergy whereas splashability focuses on which types of teams Dialga-O fits on. Ex; rain, screens, balance, stall. It's never bad to have Stealth Rocks available, more often than I'd like to admit, I find myself trying overly compressing my Stealth Rockers with moves such as Toxic, Thunder Wave, Defog, Taunt and then most of the time thes Pokemon are locked into two slots already which makes it difficult to choose which move I want. Ex: Landorus Earthquake and U-Turn, Tornadus-T Hurricane and U-Turn + Knock or NP + Coverage. Many top tier Pokemon woud appreciate it's presence, freeing up moveslots for them and maintaining an important role on it's team. (S/O gamer but swag) Anonnymous person brought to my attention the potential for Dialga-O + Alomomola. If we look past the obvious, Dialga-O deals with some Pokemon that usually exploit Alomomola which consist of, Wellspring, Ursaluna and generally any strong breaker that Dialga-O can threaten by outspeeding or teraing to eliminate it. Dialga-O has earned another A for this section.

Longevity: C
Unique Traits: B
Versatility: D
Splashability: C
Matchups: S
Compatibility: A

Overall: B+
 
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Dialga's main role would be a bulky offensive Stealth Rocker.

I'm gonna start with I don't even know what prompted this. We don't exactly have a need for a fat, 150 spatk wallbreaker that can handpick what "checks" it defensively based on coverage. It wouldn't be an offensive rocker, just a wallbreaker that blows shit up. There'd be no reason to waste a moveslot on rocks over coverage. Rocks would neither be mandatory nor would it ever bother with them. Oh and you missed the Adamant Crystal boosts for those calcs. Not versatile? Yeah try guessing what last two moves it would run after stabs. Flamethrower? Tbolt? Icebeam? Earth Power? Let's just not with this and say we did yeah?

Moving onto something more relevant, since Wellspring is remaining in the tier I'd like to shift focus and talk about some pokemon/sets I find underrated in the metagame right now just for fun and hopefully to get some fresh discussion going.

:Skeledirge:
Not a terribly common pokemon right now and I definitely get why, but after having a rough time laddering during the suspect test and finally just trying a Skeledirge Balance team after facing one too many while using Zama, It does bring some useful qualities for Balance, helping against the likes of Volcarona, Iron Valiant, Zamazenta, Mega Scizor (watch for knock on the way in though), Gouging Fire (Tera Fairy helps a lot here), with Tera Fairy also helping vs various other physical threats it can threaten to burn. I think there's some room for exploration with this one too (I saw someone try Encore vs opposing fat which was intereresting), but also Roar, Alluring Voice and even slotting Earth Power to not be helpless vs Heatran.

:Latios-Mega: :Latias-Mega:
Okay not necessarily underrated since they've been slowly climbing up the rankings, but I still just wanted to highlight them and appreciate what they bring to bulkier teams. MLatios in particular feels really solid right now, with the standard Draco/Aura/Luster/Roost set being a wallbreaker that isn't too easy to pivot around. I've seen a few substitute MLatios on ladder which was unexpectedly awkward to play around.

:Darkrai:
No Darkrai is not underrated at all, it's really strong right now but I've been seeing so many on ladder just throwing specs out or using Hypnosis sets and it's a shame because there's room I feel for utility focused roles too. Knock Off I think is genuinely a usable option that can help soften up would be switch ins like Zama or Garg and make them easier to get around later. I also think Wisp is a cool tech for luring similar checks and making some progress.

:Slowking-Galar:
Just wanted to highlight that this mon's movepool is beyond big and it just feels super versatile. Trick+Black Sludge was a fun option last gen that still is pretty okay, but I also think AV sets aren't used enough. Only ran into one during suspect laddering but it proved surprisingly annoying just because four attacks is more annoying to switch around.
 
I understand that a lot of people look forward to my post and I hope you'll agree with me that the wait was worth it. My reputation is not always easy to sustain, people have high expectations of me and I want to live up to them. Decide for yourself and me if I lived up to my name. I am going to do this a bit differently this time to make this post more receptive and engaging. You'll figure it out : ) enjoy :celebi:

:dialga origin: This may come as a surprise to you since it's gone under the radar ever since it was introduced. Many of you might not even recognize this Pokemon(Dialga-Origin). A staggering 680 BST with good enough distribution for any tier. Dialga-O has great coverage and useful stab combination that allows it to hit fairies and blow up Pokemon who don't resist Dragon. If you can look past it's strengths, it has major flaws holding it back. As a certified doctor, I feel confident to diagnose this Pokemon with FMSS. Another major flaw, Dialga-O is item restricted., meaning it can't change it's item. Simialr to Ogerpon forms but it's item only boost it's stab moves by 1.2x. Dialga's main role would be a bulky offensive Stealth Rocker. Similar to Mega Tyranitar, Dialga hits very hard and is very tanky which allows him to trade well verses offensive Pokemon that'd normally threaten your defenisve core. Dragon Steel is generally a good typing if it's backed by strong offensive stats, it's not 4x weak to anything, it has a lot of great resist that all teams can appreciate and it's capable of living most unboosted neutral and x2 hits when it's healthy.

*technical difficulties*

These calcs are here for reference to help give you an idea how well it's stats hold up verse relevant meta pokemon.

Longevity? Hazards are the most improtant and easiest way to make progress in most 6v6 singles metagames. dialga-O not only lacks the ability to neutralize hazards by wearing boots or mitigating damage with leftovers, but it also has no reliable recovery to compensate for it's hazard weakness. It is worth noting that Dialga-O is immune to toxic which grants it one form of immunity to chip damage. This attribute doesn't make up for it's lack of recovery and hazard weakness, therefore I am giving it a C for longevity.

Unique Traits? Dialga has a bad ability due to the fact it's longevity is poor, generally you aren't going to be stalling pp as a wincon. It has a Generation1 movepool, no notable signatures. Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Stealth Rocks, Thunderwave, Toxic, Eartquake and Earthpower. However, it's move slots are limited due to Stealth Rock being mandatory, you're forced to sacrifice certain matchups based on what you pick. Ice Beam and Thunderbolt will most likely be dropped unless they're used over flash cannon which makes Draco Meteor less threatening against teams with Fairies. I am not doing + or - for these tiers, just S being the highest and D being the lowest. That being said, B for Unique traits.

Versatility? Dialga-O is not versatile at all. It doesn't have viable setup moves like Calm Mind or Nasty Plot and you can't run items on Dialga which removes Choice sets, Z moves out of the equation. I think it would be fairly effecient at what it does anyways so this isn't as critical as the other categories. This is easily it's worse trait, D tier.

Splashable? This section is more theoretical so it shouldn't be taken serious but a Pokemon's splashability contriubtes to it's viability greatly. I mentioned earlier that this Pokemon is comparable to Mega-Tyranitar without Pursuit. Melmetal is perhaps a better comparison (s/o xurk) with Stealth Rocks. All these Pokemon are very good at trading, primarily used on Bulky Offense and Balance. C tier for splashability.

MetaGamerGRRRR? This section is based off how well this Pokemon matches up verses the metagame. I think I speak for everyone that more Steel types ar always welcomed into the tier. Additional Tapu Lele checks and potentially more options for Balance outside of Ferrothorn is more important now than ever because of the recent suspect test results. Dialga-Origin is capable of checking Wellspring similarlly to Ferrothorn but trades Longevity (and Spikes) for a more aggressive Stealth Rocker. Dialga-Origin matches up well verse every Defogger and Rapid Spinner. It can get Stealth Rocks up for it's team and trade well into Great Tusk, Landorus, (Non Z-Fight Torn)Tornadus-Therian, Zapdos, Corviknight etc. I give it S for this section.

Compatible? The section focuses on overlapping slots and team synergy whereas splashability focuses on which types of teams Dialga-O fits on. Ex; rain, screens, balance, stall. It's never bad to have Stealth Rocks available, more often than I'd like to admit, I find myself trying overly compressing my Stealth Rockers with moves such as Toxic, Thunder Wave, Defog, Taunt and then most of the time thes Pokemon are locked into two slots already which makes it difficult to choose which move I want. Ex: Landorus Earthquake and U-Turn, Tornadus-T Hurricane and U-Turn + Knock or NP + Coverage. Many top tier Pokemon woud appreciate it's presence, freeing up moveslots for them and maintaining an important role on it's team. (S/O gamer but swag) Anonnymous person brought to my attention the potential for Dialga-O + Alomomola. If we look past the obvious, Dialga-O deals with some Pokemon that usually exploit Alomomola which consist of, Wellspring, Ursaluna and generally any strong breaker that Dialga-O can threaten by outspeeding or teraing to eliminate it. Dialga-O has earned another A for this section.

Longevity: C
Unique Traits: B
Versatility: D
Splashability: C
Matchups: S
Compatibility: A

Overall: B+
Brah we get it u hate :ogerpon-wellspring: we do not have to let this demon into the tier (literally only chansey and blissey can switch into draco from this thing what)
 
I'm gonna start with I don't even know what prompted this. We don't exactly have a need for a fat, 150 spatk wallbreaker that can handpick what "checks" it defensively based on coverage. It wouldn't be an offensive rocker, just a wallbreaker that blows shit up. There'd be no reason to waste a moveslot on rocks over coverage. Rocks would neither be mandatory nor would it ever bother with them. Oh and you missed the Adamant Crystal boosts for those calcs. Not versatile? Yeah try guessing what last two moves it would run after stabs. Flamethrower? Tbolt? Icebeam? Earth Power? Let's just not with this and say we did yeah?

Moving onto something more relevant, since Wellspring is remaining in the tier I'd like to shift focus and talk about some pokemon/sets I find underrated in the metagame right now just for fun and hopefully to get some fresh discussion going.

:Skeledirge:
Not a terribly common pokemon right now and I definitely get why, but after having a rough time laddering during the suspect test and finally just trying a Skeledirge Balance team after facing one too many while using Zama, It does bring some useful qualities for Balance, helping against the likes of Volcarona, Iron Valiant, Zamazenta, Mega Scizor (watch for knock on the way in though), Gouging Fire (Tera Fairy helps a lot here), with Tera Fairy also helping vs various other physical threats it can threaten to burn. I think there's some room for exploration with this one too (I saw someone try Encore vs opposing fat which was intereresting), but also Roar, Alluring Voice and even slotting Earth Power to not be helpless vs Heatran.

:Latios-Mega: :Latias-Mega:
Okay not necessarily underrated since they've been slowly climbing up the rankings, but I still just wanted to highlight them and appreciate what they bring to bulkier teams. MLatios in particular feels really solid right now, with the standard Draco/Aura/Luster/Roost set being a wallbreaker that isn't too easy to pivot around. I've seen a few substitute MLatios on ladder which was unexpectedly awkward to play around.

:Darkrai:
No Darkrai is not underrated at all, it's really strong right now but I've been seeing so many on ladder just throwing specs out or using Hypnosis sets and it's a shame because there's room I feel for utility focused roles too. Knock Off I think is genuinely a usable option that can help soften up would be switch ins like Zama or Garg and make them easier to get around later. I also think Wisp is a cool tech for luring similar checks and making some progress.

:Slowking-Galar:
Just wanted to highlight that this mon's movepool is beyond big and it just feels super versatile. Trick+Black Sludge was a fun option last gen that still is pretty okay, but I also think AV sets aren't used enough. Only ran into one during suspect laddering but it proved surprisingly annoying just because four attacks is more annoying to switch around.
Your definition of versatility is definitely skewed. Prime examples of versatile pokemon, look at Landorus-Therian in any generation, gen 7 magearna, Tornadus-Therian historically has been pretty versatile. When I say versatile, it means set variety, and different functions. If you want to rethink your answer and admit you didn’t give this response any thought than I’m happy to continue this on good terms, you can remove the condescending tone while you’re at it.

I removed the calcs, a couple of people pointed that out to me. Thank you and I apologize for the confusion on that part.
 
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Your definition of versatility is definitely skewed. Prime examples of versatile pokemon, look at Landorus-Therian in any generation, gen 7 magearna, Tornadus-Therian historically has been pretty versatile. When I say versatile, it means set variety, and different functions. If you want to rethink your answer and admit you didn’t give this response any thought than I’m happy to continue this on good terms, you can remove the condescending tone while you’re at it. I made my post simple and easy to comprehend for people like you, I’m not going to be lectured by one of them.
I mean, if we look at Dialga Origin it can be pretty versatile. From what I could see, there are multiple different sets it could run. (TBH, only really the last part of the sentence is condescending at all, and its only a little, I think that was a little bit of an overreaction)
Set-up? Iron defense and Body press are there, or you could use bulk up sets if needed (100 base attack is more than enough).
Defensive set with toxic, stealth rock, dragon tail and a stab move.
Full out special attacker with 4 attacks.
Mixed set to abuse mons such blissey or AV Iron Crown that try to wall it on the special side.
Offensive stealth rock lead with steel beam to set fast tempo if needed.

And don't even get me started on the special coverage.
Aura Sphere
Dragon Stab
Steel Stab
Earth power
Flamethrower
Hidden Power (obviously)
Ice Beam
Power Gem
Thunderbolt
I'm sorry, but even if we go with just the special attacker moveset, Dialga Origin is so versatile. Versatility covers how different its checks can be, not just how many sets that do different things does it have. You are thinking about its role from a Ubers perspective, where it is outclassed by so many mons. However, in an OU context, 150 base special attack with amazing bulk, decent speed and wide coverage (also, stabs are boosted 1.2x, so even more powerful) is insane. Dialga Origin is a bad Uber, but that doesn't necessarily mean its a good drop for OU.
 
I mean, if we look at Dialga Origin it can be pretty versatile. From what I could see, there are multiple different sets it could run. (TBH, only really the last part of the sentence is condescending at all, and its only a little, I think that was a little bit of an overreaction)
Set-up? Iron defense and Body press are there, or you could use bulk up sets if needed (100 base attack is more than enough).
Defensive set with toxic, stealth rock, dragon tail and a stab move.
Full out special attacker with 4 attacks.
Mixed set to abuse mons such blissey or AV Iron Crown that try to wall it on the special side.
Offensive stealth rock lead with steel beam to set fast tempo if needed.

And don't even get me started on the special coverage.
Aura Sphere
Dragon Stab
Steel Stab
Earth power
Flamethrower
Hidden Power (obviously)
Ice Beam
Power Gem
Thunderbolt
I'm sorry, but even if we go with just the special attacker moveset, Dialga Origin is so versatile. Versatility covers how different its checks can be, not just how many sets that do different things does it have. You are thinking about its role from a Ubers perspective, where it is outclassed by so many mons. However, in an OU context, 150 base special attack with amazing bulk, decent speed and wide coverage (also, stabs are boosted 1.2x, so even more powerful) is insane. Dialga Origin is a bad Uber, but that doesn't necessarily mean its a good drop for OU.
I don’t see the value in running ID press personally. It’s not just outclassed but there’s some major flaws in that set.
I’ll admit bulk up is not something I was impressed with at first but I could see its value behind screens.
It could definitely use heavy slam or earthquake but it’s function practically remains the same. You’re an offensive stealth rocker, tasked with setting up rocks and denying hazard removers from removing hazards lol. I understand he is capable of more than that, 150 special attack + gen 1 coverage is insane. Choosing that coverage is where it gets tricky, I’d argue you’re locked into your stab for these sets. And I’d also argue stealth rocks makes the most sense on him because of his ability to beat defoggers. However, why not use 4a since he is so strong? That’s a fair question, besides the fact that I think you stand to gain much more if you use rocks, it is immediately threatening and that is it. You can’t boost past fat so you’re not making progress at that point. It sounds great verse balance and perhaps it’s broken, I definitely don’t think offense is incapable of dealing with it. Balance can position or pivot out into attackers like it’s always done. Look at Ursluna, it’s got no actual switch ins. Stab + fire punch is all the coverage it needs and it has access to sd and bulk up. Somehow it is not broken, maybe because of zama. But we have to deal

Seriously no offense, I don’t agree on your definition of versatility or maybe I don’t understand it. Heavy Slam, Draco Meteor, Flamethrower, Earthpower, I tried to be most favorable to your argument. Garg, Ting, Kanto Slowking lol (I recognize this is a bit far fetched), Deoxy-D, Chansey, Clodsire. Maybe I’m missing more relevant mons but these are all capable of switching in to recover the following turn. Offensively theres plenty of checks to keep this thing balanced and enough Pokémon who can pivot in/out. This is best case scenario, otherwise dropping coverage and you’re much less threatening. I feel like we’ve discounted much of what could happen in a real game. It’s especially relevant with this Mon because the calcs don’t tell the full story here. Honestly, we should be looking at what can ohko this Pokemon. Thanks for the response, hope to see a reply when I come back.
 
And I’d also argue stealth rocks makes the most sense on him because of his ability to beat defoggers

It makes no sense to waste a moveslot on something this powerful when you can relegate rocks elsewhere and let it focus on offense. You gain nothing from running rocks on it and lose a moveslot to make it even more stupid to pivot around.

it is immediately threatening and that is it. You can’t boost past fat so you’re not making progress at that point. It sounds great verse balance and perhaps it’s broken, I definitely don’t think offense is incapable of dealing with it. Balance can position or pivot out into attackers like it’s always done. Look at Ursluna, it’s got no actual switch ins. Stab + fire punch is all the coverage it needs and it has access to sd and bulk up. Somehow it is not broken, maybe because of zama. But we have to deal

Balance and BO would severely struggle with it, and BO would have to make awkward trads to try and contain it. It doesn't need to boost past fat because what does fat do vs it? Unless you wanna run junk like Clodsire/Chansey there really isn't much an option beyond pivoting and hoping to bait the right move. Adamant Crystal Draco straight 2HKOs Clod with a spike up and Chansey sucks. Balance isn't pivoting around it comfortably as it outruns majority defensive pokes on those teams and they have to hope they guess right when switching around. Offense can "handle" it, but they still will be forced to trade at least one mon to weaken it and if Dia-O has something like a Mola in the back then it can just get healed back up.

The comparisons to Luna are flawed and always will be with all due respect. Luna is not broken because it is hindered and held back by a miserable speed stat, poor longevity and a typing that doesn't give it easy entry, thus requiring aggressive play and switch support.

Seriously no offense, I don’t agree on your definition of versatility or maybe I don’t understand it. Heavy Slam, Draco Meteor, Flamethrower, Earthpower, I tried to be most favorable to your argument. Garg, Ting, Kanto Slowking lol (I recognize this is a bit far fetched), Deoxy-D, Chansey, Clodsire. Maybe I’m missing more relevant mons but these are all capable of switching in to recover the following turn.

Versatility isn't just about entire sets, but varations on sets. Like for example a standard set like Draco/Flash/Icebeam/Flamethrower, then Draco/Flash/Flamethrower/Tbolt, or Draco/Flash/EPower/IceBeam and so on. And that's just standard. Stuff like dragon tail on hazard stack teams to knock around switch ins and rack up chip over and over, or offensive TR to destroy offense.

Garg is not an answer at all what. Kanto-Slowking is flat out bad and not worth using over Galar Slowking, Ting-Lu is abusable by knock spamming teammates such as Torn-T or toxic users. Deo-D is not viable nor can it answer it, Chansey is awful, Clodsire gets 2HKOd by Crystal boosted Draco with spikes up (and is also bad).

More than any of this, there simply is no reason to consider dropping this mon at all. It adds nothing to the tier, it's too powerful in its own right and we have enough big hitters to handle as is. The tier, aside from one or maybe two mons, is in a nice spot and we don't need to add something like this.

If you want to rethink your answer and admit you didn’t give this response any thought

Excuse you...?
 
Seriously, why is anyone talking about Dialga-Origin?

Look at this calc:

252 SpA Adamant Crystal Dialga-Origin Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 204-241 (44 - 52%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO

It's a mon that 2HKOes Clodsire with a bit of chip, so basically, the only remotely serviceable switch-ins are Chansey (a bad mon), Ting-Lu, Primarina (which has very low usage in NatDex), and Assault Vest Slowking-Galar since its STABs alone nuke most of the tier. Unlike Archaludon, Dialga-Origin is faster than Great Tusk and one-shots it unless Tusk Teras. Stealth Rock on Dialga-Origin is just bad. Using it purely as a wallbreaker is where it's at.

Anything can look balanced if you use its worst set.
 
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Hey heres some mons I think are criminally underrated right now.

:sv/iron-treads:

I started off as a huge treads hater but came to realize this guy is crucial on most rain teams right now as typically one of the biggest problems facing rain is that they start out with bad momentum and need to play around the opponents lead, the eject button sets on iron treads gives you a great switchin to common leads vs pelliper such as :tapu-koko: :tapu-lele: :zapdos: :raging-bolt: and almost guarantees you take back momentum right away on turn 2.

:sv/hoopa-unbound:

Another rediculously hard to switch in to mon, people have often considered it a noob trap,there are more sets than just braindead band however and a bulk mixed assault vest set can serve as a great check to special attackers while forcing progress against everything using psychic noise, knock off and coverage moves.

:sv/enamorus:
Another set that fell off as soon as it dropped was stellar enamorus, this mon can serve as a breaker against any terastalized wall using choice specs and tera blast stellar offering a catch all counter to different cheese tera types on AIDS mons like electric and ghost :garganacl: and any off meta choices that catch your team by suprise. Tera is a trash mechanic that should have been banned and this serves to counter a lot of the variance that can easily cheese a game you deserved to win.

:sv/Ogerpon-cornerstone:
Basically does what :ogerpon-wellspring: does with the added benefit of avoiding the dragon tera spam that people use to counter :ogerpon-wellspring:

:sv/kleavor:
bad typing may hold it back however band sets especially tera psychic with psycho cut can catch off guard many would be checks like :great-tusk:and kleavor has a huge variety of very strong coverage moves coming off an insane 135 base attack, and getting up rocks while attacking will never not be good.
:sv/quaquaval:
another mon thats overlooked due to its similarities to :urshifu-rapid-strike:specifically a psychic seed tera flying set can be lethal with a combination of sd aqua step cc and acrobatics, its basically like a stronger slow hawlucha that can snowball with moxie
 
I started off as a huge treads hater but came to realize this guy is crucial on most rain teams right now as typically one of the biggest problems facing rain is that they start out with bad momentum and need to play around the opponents lead,
I want to mention that treads can actually work in non-rain offense as a good pivot against common threats like lele koko and rbolt. It sort of suffers from 4MSS, which is another way to say it has many viable tools to load, from knock, spin, vs, rock, to even ice z for lando and glisc
 
Raichu-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Surge Surfer
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Rising Voltage
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Psyshock
my only purpose playing this tier is to use aloraichu
the most batshit insane wallbreaker when paired with koko imo
don't believe me?here are some mad calcs
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Tera Electric Raichu-Alola Rising Voltage (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Blissey in Electric Terrain: 702-827 (98.3 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Tera Electric Raichu-Alola Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 525-619 (148.3 - 174.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Tera Electric Raichu-Alola Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Unaware Clodsire: 447-530 (96.5 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Tera Electric Raichu-Alola Rising Voltage (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Unaware Clefable in Electric Terrain: 499-588 (126.6 - 149.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Tera Electric Raichu-Alola Rising Voltage (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar in Electric Terrain: 512-603 (129.9 - 153%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Tera Electric Raichu-Alola Rising Voltage (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 216 SpD Ferrothorn in Electric Terrain: 334-394 (94.8 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
raw damage is not the only thing this fella has
with surge surfer this guy reaches 618 speed,outspeeding everything even at +1 i think

the future is now
use kokoraichu
 
in light of the recent zama suspect test, may I ask why there isn't one for darkrai? like yeah blissey/chansey walls it but are people using those mons still?
We only recently unbanned darkrai, it would be weird to try and ban the mon after we just voted to unban it from ubers like 2 sus tests ago. Its also super balanced given the power creep in the tier and not out of place at all.
 
Hey all, since I’m stressed (again) I’ll talk about some mons that I like. Because of this there may be a little bias in what I say but here we go.

:raging bolt:
This thing is just such a good wincon. There are checks to it but they can be overwhelmed, like ting-Lu, ferro, mtar, a lot of fast stuff etc. but I’m far from saying the thing is broken. I just really like it’s consistency as a wincon mainly, it always breaks just so effectively against so many structures in the tier, like those pex / Glisc balances (along with a lot of balances in general that have Lando as the ground) along with doing nicely into weather teams (not featuring Mtar). Drag z is obviously pretty good but Taunt and booster stuff is also still pretty smooth sailing to use, being good traders and denying further defensive counterplay in the case of taunt and more consistent breaking with booster.

:Toxapex:
This fulfills so many defensive roles for a team it’s actually so useful on top of being a blanket check into stuff like Darkrai ival Volc among others. It provides so many useful resistances to water, fire, fairy, and fighting and is super good glue to a variety of teams. Besides this there isn’t much to say, and I don’t think the thing has fallen off at all but in fact is thriving due to the meta being fighting infested in top of having common things that pex checks, like msciz, volc, Weav, and mlop. Being able to have reliable recovery, the ability to run scald, haze, and potentially even Tspikes also separate it from mola and make it much better imo, also you actually check stuff with pex LOL.

:Tyranitar-mega:
I don’t know if anyone else has experienced this, but whenever a mtar is correctly slotted on a team it makes it so much more consistent and heck even more fun to use. It provides so much good utility in rocks, knock, and the rare pursuit on top of the ability to check bolt, Weav, and yard. Typing sucks but it being able to check these threats on top of having the bulk to survive a good amount of hits and hitting like a truck and you have me sold. It’s also good into choice locked stuff like rai, lele, and even hsam if it predicts right which furthers its potential utility to set rocks or click knock or even pursuit these guys.

:Charizard-mega-y:
After looking at some prep for wc I realized how much this thing can cook and how important it is to have a fire resist if you can slot it. Initially in dlc2 I (and probably others) thought that this was just an enabler for gouging and bolt, but now thinking more about it and looking at opinions and teams from others I feel this is a generally good offensive threat. It’s done what it has always done; it blasts through teams with the right opportunities since a solid amount of teams can lose to it if it’s checks are weakened, like say pex or Tera dragon gking. Sure it’s rocks weak but with the right play and the teammates you should probably be running with it it’s well worth the power and ability to shred a lot of Lando offenses or bos given the chances.

:pelipper: / :Swampert-mega: / :Archaludon:
Rain has from what I have seen risen. A lack of bulky water resists have made rain a lot more difficult to deal with, and although it does not like pon staying or losing turns due to the potential checks of the individual rain sweepers (like Barra into pex or Fightings / fast spatkers into arch, although it still trades nicely). Rain being able to do the offense style’s main purpose and overwhelming checks for the teammates on it helps it to be one of the things you have to account for in building or else you’ll just auto lose to it. Rain stuff rising on the vr also helps prove the point of rain having a resurgence.

:Slowbro:
Looking back this thing has super good defensive traits. Being a zama check is always good but like pex it has the same fighting and Water resists that are all so useful. It’s good into the waters rain uses, shifu, zama, mlop, mmedi (which is surprising and is a good trait), and other stuff pex can have trouble with like non drag z dnite and sd Gliscor which is pretty good in the case of the last one. Besides that it has pivoting support on top of Tera to pivot on pon, Koko, and yard, allowing for more counterplay into them (mainly yard and pon; Koko is just a nice thing to resist for bro especially) since they can be revenge killed despite their threat level. Pivoting and future sight support is also just a generally good thing for a lot of breakers and even just a regular team that appreciates the pivoting.

:Serperior:
Serp being only B is kinda a crime ngl, it has some super cool traits and offensive capabilities. For one, its almost unresisted coverage in combination with Tera makes it pretty threatening in its own right. Grass fire ground hits basically the entire tier except for like flying stuff, and those things can either be overwhelmed by repeated leaf storms or be cheesed with glare. Being able to cripple pon and be faster than it is also a huge plus. It’s also solid on some Ho builds because of its good offensive capabilities and ability to wear down stuff for teammates like Volc or Ival while also packing the insanely good glare. Other sets like taunt synth and fog are also usable and give a more utility focused approach to serp which propels offense greater, like fogging and glaring stuff for things like mmedi and weav while also having decent longevity with synth. Sub glare is also super cheesy and can severely chunk teams if positioned right and is personally my least favorite set to play against since glare is once again broken.

:skarmory:
I feel this thing has a good amount of potential, as it’s a steel bird (so it has a good defensive profile) with the broken spikes (and a good matchup into the ground foggers and maybe even some of the non grounds too, like non taunt fog torn or kart). Being a steel that can’t check lele makes it super hard to fit it on a team though. Its wincon potential is super limited in a tier with pex and lele but iron defense is super useful because with it you can 1v1 zama long term with helm chip which is one of the best reasons to use skarm. Besides that it doesn’t really do much else, it has issues with getting overwhelmed easily and losing momentum against stuff but spikes gives it a solid niche imo.

:Pecharunt:
This is a super solid balance breaker, which although is not THAT big of a deal considering offense is all the rage now, but even so balance is still decent and pecha does pretty well into those teams. Shoutouts to oculars for creating the ghost z set you really did save Pecha from being something that can’t break at all. It also has a nice speed tier if you use the sample spread, outspeeding Glisc (which is super important on this mon), modest bolt, adamant msciz, and any landos trying to creep those 2. Good defensive traits in being immune to toxic and having a fighting resist into stuff like lop and zama is also super good, which furthers its mu into balance because fightings like those 2 are common forms of speed control. Also don’t use any other set than nplot ghost z most others are either outclassed or lack sufficient breaking power.

:celesteela:
Although having bolt in this tier sucks this actually has some neat traits. It checks lele a little better than Corv due to it being able to threaten lele with damage without costing its health while also soft checking other things like rai and nplot torn (rai 2hkoing after rocks is like a 3% chance lolz). Leech protect is also annoying at times, especially with the steels besides tran being cooked by flamethrower so they can’t blank it. Leech is also surprisingly hard to switch into and is super annoying because of this as ferro can’t block leech. That’s all I have to say for defensive sets but autotomize can also be a decently threatening wincon that has a super good defensive typing to setup with and can check lele on top of that.

:iron hands:
Decent trader because of Tera and ok longevity with lefties and Drain punch on top of being absurdly fat. SD sets are ok because of its fatness and good typing and offensive coverage, allowing it to trade with almost the entire tier. Hazards hurt it a lot and it sometimes doesn’t really put in the work it should but I feel it has a niche.

:reuniclus:
Ok this is a curveball and I’ll make a vr post on it in the future going more in depth but this can be a surprisingly ok wincon into fatter stuff because of magic guard being super useful on top of good coverage into a lot of the tier. Resisting fighting helps it against zama and mlop too. Oh yeah this thing also gets psychic noise which is an insane tool you can use at the cost of not being able to threaten gking, but imo I feel psychic noise is worth this trade, being able to deny recovery from stuff like Glisc, Ferro, and Garg if you want something that will always cripple them somehow if you aren’t fight z. It still has issues like not being that consistent of a wincon and struggling against darks but if you pair it with tspikes pex or mtias (which helps overwhelm the darks so at least one of them wins in the end) then it can do stuff probably. I still think fight z is the best set so you slam mtar Weav on switch in while also having a consistent hit into Ferro, heatran, and ting Lu. In terms of evs you can just go the standard 44 to outspeed pex but if ur crazy ig you could outspeed ting Lu if you really really wanted.

:thundurus-therian:
Another unranked mon I think has potential to put in work. Thundt has actually super good coverage and good offensive typing, which makes it pretty decent on webs teams but can also be used on some more specific Ho teams. On webs it has the nice use of actually threatening the foggers immediately unlike serp or even bisharp. Fight z is imo the best set, as you get to nuke stuff like bolt ferro and mtar much more consistently along with lure the occasional blissey and chansey if they switch in on you (clod can potentially be worn down since you are playing Ho or is persuaded to not come in due to teammates like mmedi or shifu). Ground immunity is also a good trait for a mon that needs the opportunities to set up since it’s so frail, as it can do such against stuff like Lando or Glisc (if they toxic you, they can’t really threaten you beyond that so you can probably take out a good chunk of a team by then). Rocks weakness along with having a meh speed tier out of niche style of webs makes it probably not the best mon for discussion but whatever I like it. Oh yeah it’s an electric sweeper that doesn’t struggle to offensively threaten bolt so that’s also nice.


alright I’m done pls don’t flame me too hard :3
 
View attachment 632724

I'm not familiar with Natdex OU, but since Darkrai is ranked in the VR I figured this was an oversight. If I'm wrong please ignore this post!

You are correct! I forgot to update it, thank you for pointing it out - R8
I noticed that Dialga-Origin and Palkia-Origin are also not included in the list too.
That also includes the official Smogon homepage for the tier.
Screenshot 2024-05-14 113828.png
 
Raging Bolt is an amazing Pokemon for this tier. Before this point, we only really had Tapu Koko and Zapdos as electrics of consistency. It's nice to have a third (still love Iron Hands btw.) From Thunderclap, to Calm Mind + three attacks, to Taunt which enables stallbreaking, Substitute to block status, and even Rising Voltage sets to abuse electric terrain, this thing is here to stay and I love it. Tera wise, I have always been a fan of Tera Ice for that bolt beam coverage, but Tera Fairy is great defensively to flip the script against other dragons while Tera Fire destroys Ferrothorn immediately and makes Mega Mawile a non issue.

A mon I seriously want to discuss though for possible use is Venusaur. Yes, Mega Venusaur and regular chlorophyll sweeper Venusaur alike. For the former, while it can't heal with leftovers the balance teams it fits on hasn't really changed. For one, the toxic immunity plus natural bulk means that this frog dinosaur can stick around for awhile. Lots of great utility options from Sleep Powder, to Toxic, to Leech Seed, Knock Off... a lot of options that go underappreciated. Some good match-ups for it include Urshifu-Rapid Strike, Toxapex, Alomomola, Rillaboom and most arguably Great Tusk and Waterpon. Definitely flawed but not terrible. As for regular Venusaur, while specific to sun teams it has a lot of power behind its attacks and can get a growth off reliably. Plus it has good stabs and coverage, though admittedly struggling with 4 moveslot syndrome.
 
hi :)
how-to-fix-enamorus-v0-u4ra45ppqtob1.png

Enamorus @ Heavy Duty Boots / Choice Specs
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tera Blast
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Taunt / Mystical Fire

i really like this mon
ik it's kinda ugly looking and oculars already talked about it a few posts above but i still wanted to make a post about this thing

when stellar came out and i began to theorymon some sets, it occurred to me that this new type was ass and there was no reason to use it. however, i didn't know it actually buffed tera blast to 100 base power with the trade off of dropping your offensive stats. i eventually found this out in a ndou room tour against epicgamergod69 (egg), where bro tera'd enamorus turn 1, almost one shotting whatever lead i was running, probably lando, and getting a plus one in offenses. i still won the game, but i was immediately intrigued by this set. after i got cooked in the room tour, i began to experiment. during my experimenting, i found that stellar enamorus can actually function in the tier successfully, although it needs to be used carefully. hdb sets can act as a late game cleaner, stacking boosts against the opponent that allow enamorus to spiral beyond control. choice specs sets are also really cool, as it makes enamorus a breaker that can rip through the opposing pokemon with enam's solid special attack while stacking special attack boosts.

this mon is cool due to the fact that it provides an answer to random tera'd pokemon. whether you voted ban on either of the tera suspects or created your account 2 days prior to the second tera vote, im sure we've all experienced the dread that is your breaker suddenly dying/getting walled by your opponent because of tera. enamorus actually thrives off of these random tera's, because of stellar being super effective against tera'd pokemon. that alone makes this pokemon so cool to me. i'll be sad once the next gen rolls around and this mon's usage will fall into a trashcan right next to eminem's 2018 album "revival", but i'll remember the fun i had.

this mon isn't without flaw, however, which is why it's considered to be anti-meta. it's super frail and can hardly survive strong attacks, even from unboosted opponents. it's speed tier is solid, but it's still slower than a lot of breakers it faces competition from. pokemon like the ogerpons, weavile, and iron valiant can come in with a well timed pivot before enamorus can get out of hand and threaten an ohko with super effective moves (ogerpon-c's cudgel, ice stab from weavile, thunderbolt from ival) or just being strong as shit (ogerpon-w's cudgel). raging bolt and mega tyranitar are also pokemon it struggles against despite having the advantageous typing. raging bolt politely informs you that it has a stab priority move while also just being bulky enough to switch in on a tera blast and clicking thunderclap when you use moonblast. mega tyranitar is generally bulky as hell due to its great defensive stats and free special defense boost from sandstorm. it doesn't want to switch into a tera blast then survive a moonblast, but if it gets in via a well timed pivot, you're cooked.

anyways, that concludes my ted talk. this thing is cool, definitely one of my favorite pokemon to use. i would send a paste of a team that i've had a lot of success with but ps has been down for 14 hours as i'm typing this and i don't exactly remember everything that was on the team. i appreciate you reading this
 
I’m gonna chime in regarding some of the mons mentioned above:
:Enamorus:
I honestly think the main strength of this mon is its scarf set and I see very few mons which can mow through a weakened team with the same potency. With scarf, its speed tier is suddenly pretty great, only really being outsped by booster mons, scarfers like kartana, lati and darkrai. With the first use boost from stellar it can alao deliver some power if it needs to. In the late game, you can run through a team with tera blast and scarf has practically no drawback if your locked move already hits everything and gives you a boost. Also healing wish is nice

:tyranitar-mega:
I have to agree with Ineros and also add that mega ttar in the sand is literally bulkier than toxapex while packing a base 164 atk stab knock off which is never a bad thing to have. In most matchups you are able to pursuit trap a target and do a lot of damage, even on neutral or resisted hits, grab free switch ins on some of the common defoggers and generally be a nuisance with knock off. Its bulk makes it eat some hits you wouldnt think it can, allowing ttar to live +1 tera grass giga drain from offensive volcarona and ko it back with knock off. Its only crippling weakness is the 4x fighting, which means fighting coverage from mons like iron crown, ceruledge or lele blows you to pieces.

:raging bolt:
Imo one of the top 5 mons in ndou and the only suspect test I would consider after the zama one ends. In pretty much every game I use it in, it is able to do what I call the “waterpon magic”, breaking mons which should check it, just like waterpon. Z draco is honestly a bait, this mon can abuse defensive tera so well due to its natural bulk and already threatening offensive kit. Using tera instead of z allows you to break mons which are otherwise guaranteed to stop you, such as offensive tusk, offensive lando, offensive chomp, mega swampert, tapu lele and any dragon move, killing them with +1 or perhaps +2 dpulse and proceeding to sweep. Thunderclap is also insane, with +1 thunderclap ohkoing some of the most usual offensive mons in the meta. I would say that its only true counters are ferro (which drops to enough boosts) , ting lu and unaware clod. Weather ball sun is an option vs ferro.
 
:raging bolt:
Imo one of the top 5 mons in ndou and the only suspect test I would consider after the zama one ends. In pretty much every game I use it in, it is able to do what I call the “waterpon magic”, breaking mons which should check it, just like waterpon. Z draco is honestly a bait, this mon can abuse defensive tera so well due to its natural bulk and already threatening offensive kit. Using tera instead of z allows you to break mons which are otherwise guaranteed to stop you, such as offensive tusk, offensive lando, offensive chomp, mega swampert, tapu lele and any dragon move, killing them with +1 or perhaps +2 dpulse and proceeding to sweep. Thunderclap is also insane, with +1 thunderclap ohkoing some of the most usual offensive mons in the meta. I would say that its only true counters are ferro (which drops to enough boosts) , ting lu and unaware clod. Weather ball sun is an option vs ferro.

Personally I'll never quite understand the cries to suspect this mon. Yes it's strong, yes it's good at making progress and yes it can often force at least one trade in any given game, but at least from personal experience it's pretty rare to actually sweep teams itself. One of its biggest issues I find is, much like Iron Valiant, it depends on Booster Energy for that immediate big power (or speed for Valiant) which results in scenarios where it being considerably less threatening after losing the boost, and those scenarios aren't that uncommon as it is often relied on as a check to opposing threats itself such as Wellspring, ZardY, Zapdos, and some Draco users after their spatk drops. Because these scenarios where it comes in are fairly common, well build teams can force trades if not force it out and mitigate the damage it causes.

It also has a decent amount of soft checks like Glowking, Mega Venusaur, Tapu Lele, Gliscor, LandoT, Ting-Lu, Offensive Chomp, Ferrothorn, Mega Tyranitar, even something like Garg can put it on a timer with Salt Cure and pivot between teammates to stall it out. It's also hazard weak, quite so and its lower speed makes it much more reasonable to revenge kill by comparison to other breakers. The use of Tera on it between Fairy and Flying is strong, but I don't think it's unreasonable and usually these types come out mid to late game so it's easier too prep for.

I think Raging Bolt is rather dynamic and a great mon for the tier as it adds useful defensive utility as well as a strong breaker to help against strong balance teams. I like its presence personally.
 
Personally I'll never quite understand the cries to suspect this mon. Yes it's strong, yes it's good at making progress and yes it can often force at least one trade in any given game, but at least from personal experience it's pretty rare to actually sweep teams itself. One of its biggest issues I find is, much like Iron Valiant, it depends on Booster Energy for that immediate big power (or speed for Valiant) which results in scenarios where it being considerably less threatening after losing the boost, and those scenarios aren't that uncommon as it is often relied on as a check to opposing threats itself such as Wellspring, ZardY, Zapdos, and some Draco users after their spatk drops. Because these scenarios where it comes in are fairly common, well build teams can force trades if not force it out and mitigate the damage it causes.

It also has a decent amount of soft checks like Glowking, Mega Venusaur, Tapu Lele, Gliscor, LandoT, Ting-Lu, Offensive Chomp, Ferrothorn, Mega Tyranitar, even something like Garg can put it on a timer with Salt Cure and pivot between teammates to stall it out. It's also hazard weak, quite so and its lower speed makes it much more reasonable to revenge kill by comparison to other breakers. The use of Tera on it between Fairy and Flying is strong, but I don't think it's unreasonable and usually these types come out mid to late game so it's easier too prep for.

I think Raging Bolt is rather dynamic and a great mon for the tier as it adds useful defensive utility as well as a strong breaker to help against strong balance teams. I like its presence personally.

Not a cry to suspect it, I just said that it’s worth considering, my request would be more like keeping it “on the radar” then suspecting it. Also, most of the checks you have mentioned straight up lose to tera at +1 or give it free calm minds, with ting lu and ferro being the only actually reliable ones. Also there is no defensive tera which resists both of its stabs (unlike waterpon vs tera dragon). Honestly the perfect coverage aspect is so underrated. There are 2 OU mons which resist this stab combo (not counting kartana and koko which still take serious damage). Those are iron treads and ferro. I will also add tinglu, clod and chansey to the list of mons which can comfortably take boosted attacks from bolt. And there is no tera to increase that list (except for volt absorb stuff) so rbolt can use tera to beat its counters but you cant use tera to beat it, the best you can get is one free turn with fairy/ground.

To be clear, I’m still not fully calling for a suspect, just saying it is a good contender for one
 
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Moyashi is spitting, raging bolt is a very good mon but no where near broken or over centralizing. it can be put onto a lot of teams and succeed very well, making it very versatile in that aspect but it's counter play exists and you can also just play around it depending on your skill level and match up

CappyThePulpy thanks for adding some more hype to the enamorus train, scarf is a pretty good option that can throw a lot of teams off of their tracks
 
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