To Hail with you! [Doubles]

Vhind

After trying to help a friend make a team utilizing Glaceon and Leafeon, I decided that I wanted to try making a Hail Team of my own. The team will primarily be played on PBR in random Doubles matches. I am very unsure on how the team will fair against the not-so-random assortment of Ubers and OUs online, but I think it can manage against real Pokemon trainers online.

(Changes in bold)


Weavile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
Jolly nature
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
- Fake Out
- Brick Break
- Ice Punch
- Night Slash

A typical "Anti-Lead" lead. Weavile is meant to obtain a free flinch. Ice Punch and Night Slash are meant to get a STAB on the opponent. Brick Break can help with type coverage.



Abomasnow @ Leftovers
Ability: Snow Warning
Sassy nature
EVs: 252 HP/96 SpA/160 SpD
- Protect
- Blizzard
- Wood Hammer
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

My Mixed Attacker Abomasnow variant. I was hoping to not have the only Snow Warning Pokemon on the team but it seems like I have no other option; I just hate how it screams "Hail Team!" However, it does help alleviate several pangs that I had originally planned for the team. Its Sassy nature ensures that Hail is present on the field thus granting 100% Blizzard accuracy. Wood Hammer takes advantage of its equal Attack/Special Attack stats for coverage. Protect is present for obvious reasons: its enormous amount of weaknesses.



Starmie @ Expert Belt
Ability: Natural Cure
Timid nature
EVs: 160 HP/132 SpA/216 Spd
- Blizzard
- Hydro Pump
- Recover
- Thunderbolt

A straight-from-Smogon Counter Star. Starmie is a reliable switch-in for Abomasnow, save coming in on a bug type attack. Please do not preach about the dangers of switching in the doubles metagame. Starmie can easily Recover the damage off and proceed with an array of elemental attacks, Blizzard benefiting from the weather. Hydro Pump makes me uneasy...I hate the accuracy but it does seem like the better choice out of HP Water and Surf...



Glaceon @ BrightPowder
Ability: Snow Cloak
Modest nature
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/6 Spd
- Shadow Ball
- Yawn
- Blizzard
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

Glaceon seems to be a late-game Pokemon. Its ability, Snow Cloak, and Bright Powder work in conjunction with the infinite Hail. HP Fighting helps against other ice types and ice-resistant steels. Blizzard is obvious and also STAB'd. Shadow Ball is for more coverage instead of wasting a moveslot with Protect. Yawn is one of Glaceon's odd ball moves that can force a switch mid-game or will put the opponent to sleep, late-game. With evasion, a daring attacker may miss after Glaceon Yawns and thus hinders itself.


New alternates!:

Cloyster @ Life Orb
Ability: Shell Armor
Brave nature
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/6 Def
- Explosion
- Payback
- Protect
- Blizzard

Continuing to take advantage of the Hail, this Cloyster showcases Blizzard. Its Brave nature slows it down to power it up: Payback will be a handy move when it comes to facing ghosts and of course psychics. Explosion should destroy most targets, especially with the Life Orb. And Protect is simply a safeguard.



Froslass @ BrightPowder
Ability: Snow Cloak
Timid nature
EVs: 6 HP/252 SpA/252 Spd
- Thunder Wave
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic

This Froslass is much like my Glaceon in terms of evasiveness, however, its even harder to be hit by a paralyzed opponent. Blizzard is obvious by now and Thunderbolt is for type coverage against the plethora of water Pokemon. As for the fourth move, I had an internal conflict with choosing between Shadow Ball and Psychic. I opted for Psychic because (even if Shadow Ball is STAB'd) I'm fucked if I encounter fighting types, especially Blaziken and Infernape.



Anyways, that's my attempt at a Hail Team for random Doubles matches.
Please help! lol.
 

MustBeEmo

Take HP Water of Starmie Surf has a higher base power

I dont know what other 2 pokes you want

I dont know of any ice walls but you should get one i think

The next should be a another sweeper
 

Vhind

I know Surf is better with its base power, but I don't want it hurting its partners.

And I'm really not looking for two other Pokemon. In PBR random matches, one can only use four out of the six Pokemon in their team. Thus when I battle with this team online, I'll use two filler Pokemon for the Trainer Card.
 

Vhind

Um, I utilize that strategy in another team of mine. I'm looking for improvements on these Pokemon.

Besides, I chose Glaceon because Blizzard is STAB'd and it also has a good ability, not to mention it isn't affected by the hail.
 

MustBeEmo

Also snow cloak

Regice has a base Special defense of 200 and can Rest/Sleep Talk to recover

Mamoswine can be good but its main attack is EQ so your only choice is Articuno and thats not a bad thing bacause its got a defense of 100 and special def. of 125

Jynx is decent on the special side but its weak physically it also could help with Set revealing but i dont recommed it

If you want to reconsider your lead Cloyster is quite good and its a spinner
and base def of 180 or if u want to try a longer process

Have something that can calm mind and baton pass can switch to cloyster with its high defense and boosted special defense and shell armor to protect against crits it can use its boosted blizzard to sweep
 

Vhind

I enjoy your persistence to help.

Please allow me to reiterate: this team is meant for Doubles play. Doubles move quickly and usually last no more than ten turns (especially online) Baton Passes are harder to pull off. Rapid Spinners are unneeded. Stat boosting moves sometimes cost more than they're worth.
 

MustBeEmo

Yeah im used to Single battles so sorry if these strategies wont work in double


Im gonna try and think of some things that are better suited for Doubles
 

Vhind

It's fine.
I'm so used to playing Double Battles that I could never get into the Single Battle metagame.
 

Mormino3

Consider Hydro Pump on Starmie. I realize it doesn't have the best accuracy but it has two good things going for it. It has a higher base power then both HP Water and Surf and it doesn't hit your own Pokemon. If you don't like Hydro Pump then I guess HP Water would be the better choice. Without Rain Dance or Life Orb, Surf isn't that great. It's power is reduced to 75% in doubles, plus you have nothing to absorb the hit other then Abomasnow who doesn't want to be hit by Surf over and over again.

I can't find anything else wrong atm. Also, doesn't PBR allow you to pick four Pokemon from a total of six? I would rather be going into the battle with six rather then four.
 

MustBeEmo

Lead with cloyster and frosslas

and scarf cloyster max evs Attack and speed amamant

the point is to explode right away and kill the opponets pokemon and frosslass doesnt take damage then it frosslass could be able set up

then in cloysters place put Abomasnow to start then hail
 

Vhind

Yeah, from the simple calculations I was doing earlier, Surf (when hitting the individual Pokemon) would do about the same amount of damage as HP Water. So it ends up being: Hit ALL Pokemon Vs. hit one Pokemon Vs. the age-old debate of power versus accuracy.
:/
I've always had a problem with any move with less than perfect accuracy.


And yes, you do go in with all six and get to choose. However, these four Pokemon are the "core" Pokemon on the team of six. No matter what the opponent's Pokemon are, I, personally, will always go with these four.
 

Vhind

MustBeEmo said:
Lead with cloyster and frosslas

and scarf cloyster max evs Attack and speed amamant

the point is to explode right away and kill the opponets pokemon and frosslass doesnt take damage then it frosslass could be able set up

then in cloysters place put Abomasnow to start then hail
Click to expand...
Explosion Teams are incredibly cliche in the Doubles metagame. I admit that it would work, but what if there's an opposing ghost. Or the opponents strategy is to Protect in order to scout? I lose one Pokemon in the process without the guarantee of killing one of theirs.
 

Mormino3

Actually, you might have some problems with the said Explosion teams. Froslass could work as an alt. to Glaceon. Life Orb variants have worked well for me in the past.
 

Mormino3

Well, if you're looking to abuse Snow Cloak, then Froslass would probably win over Glaceon in the long run. It gets TWave, which as stated above, provides you with a 46% chance of avoiding an attack, provided it has 100% accuracy. Substitute can be used in conjuntion with this method to ensure a free turn after about two uses.

If you need more power, it can run LO (+TWave) for evasion and more SAtk.

The only downside to this is that Froslass has poor defenses which hinder it's ability to both switch in and stay in.
 

Vhind

Froslass definitely seems like a good possibility. I will keep it in mind as a replacement.
However, I'm really liking Glaceon's defenses. Though Froslass has twice the amount of base speed, it's too frail. In my experience, I've OHKO'd Froslass without any problems whatsoever. I'm afraid that I would be putting myself in previous opponent's positions.

Also, Yawn has similar principles to that of Thunder Wave.
 
StarmanXL

StarmanXL

Alright, let me see if I can truly help.

I guess it's inevitable with Hail Teams, but spread fire moves can bone you pretty badly. Fortunately, you could stop some of the more obvious Sunny Day set up pretty easy (leading Tangrowth, Exeggutor, Cherrim...you get the point). You could run into problems with the Eruption-happy CS Typhlosion, and you'd have to play around that with Fake Out, Protect, and Focus Sash, and even then, they may just decide to Fire Blast you in the face or something. Heatran and Infernape pose a similar threat with Heat Wave, although both are killed by Starmie. I'm not completely sure on how to rectify this as I've never ran a Hail team, but you could consider having either Walrein or Lapras as an alternate as they both benefit from hail and are neutral to fire. You could also consider changing Abomasnow's HP to Fighting or something so you can hit Fire types for at least NVE damage. Just a suggestion.

On your Weavile, you're gonna want Brick Break for the sole fact that you wanna be able to kill an opposing Heatran. Otherwise, Starmie's your only reliable answer, and should something be paired with Heatran that can kill it--I know not what off the top of my head--ugh. Of course, that's all theorymon, but still, you don't wanna be walled by it. Oh, and in addition, what exactly are you trying to get priority against with Ice Shard? It wouldn't kill an opposing Yanmega--which is annoying as hell--won't kill a leading Salamence after Intimidate, and if you're using it for Chlorophyll users paired with Groudon, forget it, as it doesn't KO Tangrowth or Exeggutor. Besides, Weavile seems plenty fast enough, so why not give it the stronger Ice Punch?

On Starmie, as others have suggested, Hydro Pump would probably be the best choice as it's more powerful than HP Water and won't harm your partners like Surf. Oh, and about switching, that only applies to a forced and obvious switch the opponent can use to his advantage (like singles on crack), but a good switch-in is always beneficial.

On Glaceon, I really don't know why you're running those speed EVs as opposed to sp. atk. I mean, if you have a pokemon with ludicrously high Sp. Atk spamming a STAB 120 BP (well, more like 90 BP) special attack that hits both opponents, why not max out its offense? Besides, what are you shooting for to outspeed? With 252 HP, Snow Cloak, and Bright Powder, it probably won't flat out die too quickly, so you should probably go with the EVs for the Fake Tears set, Modest with 252 HP and 252 Sp. Atk. In addition, if you feel Protect is overkill, you may want to try Shadow Ball so you can touch opposing Froslass. Oh, and if people bitch at you for using Quick Powder, you've always got Leftovers to work with.

Oh, and returning to the Yanmega tangent, that thing can really give you hell--maybe not sweep singlehandedly, but will cause problems, especially if it's paired with something good. Consider your standard Speed Boost Yanmega, sporting either Wise Glasses or, even worse, Expert Belt. It will undoubtedly carry Protect or Detect, so it's getting a speed boost and being able to outspeed everything is pretty much guaranteed. With Bug Buzz, it outright kills Weavile and Starmie and Abomasnow just barely survives if Yanmega carries Wise Glasses but can be killed if Yanmega carries Expert Belt. Consider, also, that it often carries Hypnosis, which shuts down one of your pokes immediately. The only thing I can think of at the moment that would help would be to reduce your bug weakness, and I think having Froslass as an alt would help just that--it provides you with a handy resist, another fast Blizzard and Snow Cloak abuser, and is generally pretty effective on a Hail Team.

I hope some of that helped.
 

Vhind

Thank you so much, StarmanXL. I applied many of the suggestions to the team and it does seem more stable.

Later I may add Froslass and Walrein/Cloyster as possible alternates.
 

SuperAlan

I know you've reiterated that a team of four is enough, but perhaps you should add in Cloyster/Walrien and frosslass as pokemon 5 and 6. atleast this would give you options of using different hail team formations when doing double battling, instead of always being stuck using the same four pokemon that might not always work.

Example: you could go with the frosslass+explosion team sometimes instead of all the time, if you felt their wasn't too much fo a threat from protectors/ghosts.

Just give it a thought, it seems unnescesary to limit yourself to 4 pokemon when you don't have to.
 
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