The problem with countering this thing is you need to avoid the 60% flinch rate, or have the defenses to take +2 Attacks. The things that come to mind as proper counters are Dragonite, Registeel, and Regice. Provided Deoxys-S is still OU, that can switch in, outspeed, and KO with Ice Beam.
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Skymin Discussion Thread
- Thread starter 1059860
- Start date
I have played with Skymin myself a bit, but for situations against other Skymins, I don't have much experience but I usually scare them off or stall them, and sakae is right 60% Flinch + 80% -SpD drp is scary, Registeel and Dragonite have Clear Body/Inner Flinch respectively, but the former doesn't really enjoy flinching and repeated Eath Powers, and the latter doesn't enjoy HP Ice.
I've nearly been swept by lead Skymins twice today.
The team I was using had no revenge killer, Skymin had 1% health left after my lead had hit it with HP Ice, and Skymin was Scarfed.
Air Slash, lead hangs on with Sash.
Lead dies.
My Scarfer comes in.
OHKO.
My final sweeper comes in.
Flinch.
Flinch.
KO.
He switches out.
3 kills with one move. I still say Uber because you need a "counter" in your team that may not necessarily OHKO.
The team I was using had no revenge killer, Skymin had 1% health left after my lead had hit it with HP Ice, and Skymin was Scarfed.
Air Slash, lead hangs on with Sash.
Lead dies.
My Scarfer comes in.
OHKO.
My final sweeper comes in.
Flinch.
Flinch.
KO.
He switches out.
3 kills with one move. I still say Uber because you need a "counter" in your team that may not necessarily OHKO.
Well, if it outsped your scarfer, that meant it was pretty goddamn obvious that he was scarfed himself, which means that you can beat him with prediction. For God's sake, flinch-hax applies just as much to Togekiss as to this guy, and I don't hear any calls for Togekiss to be moved up to ubers.
Uhh, dude. That doesn't mean Skymin is uber at all. What you just showed has just demonstrated that you had a very poorly made team. I mean, if you didn't even have something that could revenge-kill Skymin, which isn't a very hard thing to do, then you probably deserved to lose, especially when it was locked on Air Slash the whole time. It's very sad that you didn't at least have a Flying resist. If you did have a Flying resist, you just played extremely poorly. Don't make arguments for the thing being uber if it was obviously your fault.
P.S. You don't need a counter for the thing. All you need is something that can keep it in check from completely sweeping your team. Eg. Have something that can paralyze things, which honestly isn't too much to ask in a team unless it's pure offense. Or just have some attacks on your team that make it extremely hard for Shaymin to switch in, which isn't hard either considering the huge amount of weaknesses the thing has. Set up Stealth Rock to make it even harder for Shaymin to switch in due to the SR weakness. Or, maybe you could just use a better lead.
Not hard if he's Scarfed. Stealth Rock should keep him from switching in too much.
I'm really glad there isn't anything like that running amok in the metagame right now, because there isn't.
Let's see, if he has a choice scarf, and is using air slash, what move is he going to use next? Hmmm....think, think.....
On Wifi maybe, but I heard that in a direct link battle Skymin works just fine.
(Disclaimer: The above is hearsay.)
(Disclaimer: The above is hearsay.)
You need to look a the negative side more. Seed Flare is like doubling Shaymin's Sp.atk in the way that it has 80% of crippling opponents sp.def. And Air Slash to death.
Who cares about ice shard, it still doesn't KO Yache Skymin. Same reason why Garchomp got banned. And I see Skymin as a bigger threat than Garchomp.
After doing a bit of battling, Skymin is way overrated :/.
With Garchomp, you tend to lose one Pokemon if it gets it and on top of that, it got a 20% Evaison boost in a Sandstorm (which 90% of the time, helped its own sweep) and a high enough base Speed to fuck things up with :/. It also got Swords Dance, a basicly instant way to double its massive Attack. Now, combine its resistance to Stealth Rock, Swampert-esque Defenses and a Yache Berry and bam, things begin to overcentralize on not being taken out by it.
Skymin has a weakness to Stealth Rock and base 75 Defenses and a base 100 HP, pretty nice, isn't it? Well, it's not :/. Seed Flare hitting with a SpDef drop is nearly the same as Stone Edge hitting twice from something, it's a high chance, but, it's also a low chance. Things just tend to carry Choice Scarfs now to counter it *cough*Salamence*cough*. Unless your whole team slow and frail, I don't see Skymin actually causing a problem, I myself carry a few priority moves to finish it off.
It hasn't even been battling for two weeks, give the metagame some time to adjust to it.
With Garchomp, you tend to lose one Pokemon if it gets it and on top of that, it got a 20% Evaison boost in a Sandstorm (which 90% of the time, helped its own sweep) and a high enough base Speed to fuck things up with :/. It also got Swords Dance, a basicly instant way to double its massive Attack. Now, combine its resistance to Stealth Rock, Swampert-esque Defenses and a Yache Berry and bam, things begin to overcentralize on not being taken out by it.
Skymin has a weakness to Stealth Rock and base 75 Defenses and a base 100 HP, pretty nice, isn't it? Well, it's not :/. Seed Flare hitting with a SpDef drop is nearly the same as Stone Edge hitting twice from something, it's a high chance, but, it's also a low chance. Things just tend to carry Choice Scarfs now to counter it *cough*Salamence*cough*. Unless your whole team slow and frail, I don't see Skymin actually causing a problem, I myself carry a few priority moves to finish it off.
It hasn't even been battling for two weeks, give the metagame some time to adjust to it.
I feel that Skymin is centralising already. Just look at how many Haive Scarftrans and Zapdos are around. They are in pretty much every team now. Every platinum team now seems to have at least two or three pokes that can either switch in or revenge kill skymin. It looks like the Garchomp metagame all over again, but formed over a much shorter period.
Meh, I carry Zapdos because Scizor has become such a huge threat now, and I need someone who's immune to Earthquake and can faze. At the point things are now, I'd rate Scizor above Lucario in terms of threats out there.
I feel like stall teams have taken a massive hit in Platinum. Everything and their mother learning Trick and Outrage, Skymin, and improved Scizor have made stall play just incredibly difficult to use now.
I feel like stall teams have taken a massive hit in Platinum. Everything and their mother learning Trick and Outrage, Skymin, and improved Scizor have made stall play just incredibly difficult to use now.
I haven't seen many Skymins on Shoddy recently, either I am just lucky or the citizens of Planet Earth have suddenly realised they are using a flying hedgehog, but none of the ones I saw gave me any trouble, and I have only two ice attacks on my team, and no decent special wall either.
Still, I think it belongs more in the Uber tier than Garchomp, since it is much less predictable and has a lot more speed to work with, plus it's not entirely outclassed by similar-typed pokemon at all, and has given me more trouble in the space of a few weeks than all the Garchomps I've ever had to face.
Still, one should be careful that Regice and Registeel do not turn out like Magneton in RSE - Pokemon that are dead weights on any team but are necessary to counter common threats.
Still, in my opinion any pokemon with a 4x weakness to a commonly used attacking type (Garchomp, Shaymin, Tyranitar, Salamence, Dragonite, Celebi, Heatran and Scizor to name a few) and that do not have BST 680+ should be in Standard, no questions asked.
Still, I think it belongs more in the Uber tier than Garchomp, since it is much less predictable and has a lot more speed to work with, plus it's not entirely outclassed by similar-typed pokemon at all, and has given me more trouble in the space of a few weeks than all the Garchomps I've ever had to face.
Still, one should be careful that Regice and Registeel do not turn out like Magneton in RSE - Pokemon that are dead weights on any team but are necessary to counter common threats.
Still, in my opinion any pokemon with a 4x weakness to a commonly used attacking type (Garchomp, Shaymin, Tyranitar, Salamence, Dragonite, Celebi, Heatran and Scizor to name a few) and that do not have BST 680+ should be in Standard, no questions asked.
Calm Zapdos can switch-in on the three, inspirated additions that now constantly appear since the Diamond/Pearl to Platinum transistion. Those are as follows: Heatran, Skymin and Scizor. Of course, Stealth Rock has been ignored when discussing these scenarios. I tend to lead off with a Deoxys-S that Taunts the suicude lead, and have Starmie waiting in the wings to Rapid Spin the successfully executed Stealth Rock that was not intended.
Fire Blast from a Hasty/Naive/Timid Heatran is unable to 2HKO Zapdos, allowing Zapdos to Roost off the damage, additionally pressurizing Fire Blasts so the opponent has only 4 chances to attack with it. If they explode, then... well, there's nothing you can do about it.
Scizor's attacks, not including Pursuit or Quick Attack, are resisted thanks to Zapdos' typing. Furthermore, Scizor cannot stall Zapdos' Thunderbolts with Roost anymore, as Zapdos now carries Heat Wave for the OHKO; therefore Scizor cannot Swords Dance up and Roost off the Thunderbolts, as it was once capable of doing.
Skymin's Life Orb Seed Flare, one that is successful at reducing Zapdos Special Defense by two stages, and Hidden Power Ice will acomplish the unexpected; eliminating Zapdos, no contest. But I'm sure we're all aware of the Leech Seed varients that many players tend to chose before the offensively-based set I mentioned, which, of course, Zapdos can withstand and can phaze with Roar. In addition, Leech Seed's PP is devided into two, thanks to Zapdos' trait, Pressure.
Fire Blast from a Hasty/Naive/Timid Heatran is unable to 2HKO Zapdos, allowing Zapdos to Roost off the damage, additionally pressurizing Fire Blasts so the opponent has only 4 chances to attack with it. If they explode, then... well, there's nothing you can do about it.
Scizor's attacks, not including Pursuit or Quick Attack, are resisted thanks to Zapdos' typing. Furthermore, Scizor cannot stall Zapdos' Thunderbolts with Roost anymore, as Zapdos now carries Heat Wave for the OHKO; therefore Scizor cannot Swords Dance up and Roost off the Thunderbolts, as it was once capable of doing.
Skymin's Life Orb Seed Flare, one that is successful at reducing Zapdos Special Defense by two stages, and Hidden Power Ice will acomplish the unexpected; eliminating Zapdos, no contest. But I'm sure we're all aware of the Leech Seed varients that many players tend to chose before the offensively-based set I mentioned, which, of course, Zapdos can withstand and can phaze with Roar. In addition, Leech Seed's PP is devided into two, thanks to Zapdos' trait, Pressure.
Calm, yeah, my mistake. Don't worry, my Zapdos has Calm; for some reason Careful was on my mind!
I know phazing out the opposition doesn't stop the Leech Seed effect, but Shaymin-s can continue to Substitute. I want to switch Zapdos out before I have to keep Roosting off the damage, as I don't want to waste all my Roost PP on a Shaymin-s that has only used one Leech Seed. I want it to be a cycle where I can weigh Roost pound-for-pound with Leech Seed, and have some to spare.
I know phazing out the opposition doesn't stop the Leech Seed effect, but Shaymin-s can continue to Substitute. I want to switch Zapdos out before I have to keep Roosting off the damage, as I don't want to waste all my Roost PP on a Shaymin-s that has only used one Leech Seed. I want it to be a cycle where I can weigh Roost pound-for-pound with Leech Seed, and have some to spare.
Shaymin has got more to worry about PP-wise than Zapdos, it only gets 12 Subs and 4 Seed Flares.
I think Grasswhistle is pretty annoying, my Zapdos was hit by it 4 times today (no misses..). And with accuracy only 5% lower than that of Hypnosis, is a very viable option. I mean, which of its counters don't mind being slept? All of them rely on not being 2KOd and OHKOing back. I mean Gengar can't stat up in your face, Shymin effectively can thanks to Serene Grace Seed Flare.
I think Grasswhistle is pretty annoying, my Zapdos was hit by it 4 times today (no misses..). And with accuracy only 5% lower than that of Hypnosis, is a very viable option. I mean, which of its counters don't mind being slept? All of them rely on not being 2KOd and OHKOing back. I mean Gengar can't stat up in your face, Shymin effectively can thanks to Serene Grace Seed Flare.
I guess you could say I'm "new to the party", because I just picked up playing on Shoddy today, which is the first day since Platinum came out.
I've seen a Skymin on like every other team I've faced, and I haven't lost one Pokemon to it. It's incredibly fragile, and dies from nearly any powerful attack that's not NVE against it.
One could argue that that's because I run a Trick-Room team, but my LO Rhyperior and CB Rampardos/etc are taking it out with one Stone Edge (or Fire Punch and even Megahorn in Rhyperior's case), because they think they can safely switch in and destroy them...Also, my lead Bronzong raped it with a Gyro-ball...
I think it's just a lot of hype. What I am having trouble with is the absurd amount of Rotom-usage going on...
I've seen a Skymin on like every other team I've faced, and I haven't lost one Pokemon to it. It's incredibly fragile, and dies from nearly any powerful attack that's not NVE against it.
One could argue that that's because I run a Trick-Room team, but my LO Rhyperior and CB Rampardos/etc are taking it out with one Stone Edge (or Fire Punch and even Megahorn in Rhyperior's case), because they think they can safely switch in and destroy them...Also, my lead Bronzong raped it with a Gyro-ball...
I think it's just a lot of hype. What I am having trouble with is the absurd amount of Rotom-usage going on...
As crazy as it seems, I have the same experiences. Skymin is easily handled by my swine and Priority scizor, so I have no problems against it. My problem is how defensively stable the new rotom's are. I am thinking about getting a CB-Tar just for them.
Well that shows whoever you were playing was an idiot. If they had half a brain cell, they would wait for trick room to end, sub while you switched and then have fun fighting something behind a sub with an 80% chance to harshly lower your SD and a 60% chance to flinch you.
Rofl yeah you're right. SkyMin is incredibly strong, and it isn't countered easy aswell. It's weakness to SR is what makes me so happy. I mean it switches often, just get yourself a anti spinner incase he also has a spinner with him and bam you pwn him. It is also very frail so almost any priority move can kill it. Also pokemon's who are faster (Jolteon/Aerodactyl) can easily kill it. Not to mention all random scarfers.
Zapdos is the best counter, mines has HP ice for example in place of Heat Wave. (i dunno why im just retro lol) I've also seen many Naive/Timid/Hasty Scarftran now, just to counter that thingy. I am using 1 aswell so it works pretty good ^_^.
In other words, it can b easily killed. But everyone has at least 1 counter for it, which in my opinion over centralise the metagame abit. It was the same when any1 was using 1 of garchomp's ''counters''. You saw random Skarmory's, Cressy, Forry, Bronzong to switch in Outrage. I've seen these pokemon less now. Though Fire Blast pwned all those pokemon except for Cress.