A New Ubers User (RMT)

[bojangles]

Team at a Glance

Ok so, after reading a lot about Ubers, and how it was such a fast paced game, I decided to put aside my initial hate for it, and try it out. Let me tell you, its amazing. Everythings so unpredictable, when you see a Kyogre, it could be running 1 of 5 or so plausible sets, unlike OU, where I keep seeing Scizor and Heatran. Anyways, naturally, I want to have a nice team to play in the Ubers metagame. Thats where you come in.


Lead Heavy Hitter

Kyogre @ Choice Specs
Drizzle
Modest | 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 6 HP
~Water Spout
~Surf
~Thunder
~Ice Beam

Description: This guy is a monster. Massive heavy hits with STAB Water Spout and Thunder. Even Blissey is 2HKO'd by A full health Water Spout. Thunder can take down other Ogres, as long as they aren't scarfed or Timid, but even then, they may not OHKO. He also sets up the rain for my team, mainly benefitting Dialga.

Team Role: This guy sponges up a lot of my Ice hits, because its so widespread in a metagame full of Dragons. It also allows me to hurt opponents strategies by getting rid of their sunlight.



The ResTalker

Dialga @ Leftovers
Pressure
Careful | 252 HP, 252 SpDef, 6 Atk
~Bulk Up
~Dragon Claw
~Rest
~Sleep Talk

Description: This is a classic BUlga. I generally bring him in on a wall, and its easy setting up from there. After only one or two Bulk Ups, he becomes a defensive monster with a really high attack. Rest is great because it allows me to heal (and attack with Sleep Talk), while also ridding me of status. Once this guy gets going, theres not much that can stop him. Even Heatran exploding only does about 18% damage after a Bulk Up.

Team Role: My closest thing to a physical wall. He has a lot of resistances, so he can easily take physical hits that would seriously hurt other members of my team. Also, after a Bulk Up or two, he makes a formidable physical sweeper.



The Set-Up and Sweep

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Air Lock
Adamant | 252 Atk, 112 HP, 144 Spe
~Swords Dance
~Flamethrower
~Dragon Claw
~Extremespeed

Description: Once Rayquaza gets a SD or even two in, its generally an easy sweep from there on out. Extremespeed can OHKO many things, including rival Rayquazas, the Latis, Palkia, weakened Lugias and Ho-Oh. Whatever it doesn't OHKO'd generally gets hurt pretty badly from Dragon Claw, like Dialga, Groudon, and Giratina. Flamethrower is for those pesky Shedinjas.

Team Role: He can pick off weakened pokemon with his Extremespeed and just generally provide a sweep that will either win it, or severely weaken the opponent. Also, if they don't have Heatran, he's a very good Shedinja counter. Not much to say here.



The Scarfed Sweeper

Palkia @ Choice Scarf
Pressure
Hasty | 6 Atk, 252 SpAtk, 252 Spe
~Surf
~Spacial Rend
~Thunder
~Aqua Tail

Description: This guy is unstoppable once you get him in. With Rain support from Kyogre, nothing can switch in without taking a massive hit. Even a NVE Thunder does about 85% to a Forretress. Surf completely destroys anything that doesn't resist it, while Spacial Rend sends Dragons running to the hills. Thunder puts massive hurt on Kyogre and Aqua Tail 2HKOs Blissey.

Team Role: He is so powerful that nothing can switch in without taking a near fatal hit. Nothing truly counters Palkia. My main revenge killer.



The Sleeper-Sweeper

Darkrai @ Life Orb
Bad Dreams
Timid | 252 SpAtk, 252 Spe, 6 HP
~Dark Void
~Dark Pulse
~Substitute
~Nasty Plot

Description: Darkrai is the best sleeper in the Ubers territory. Once Dark Void hits with its 80% accuracy, backed up by Darkrai's 125 base speed, I am guaranteed a Substitute and/or a Nasty Plot, which sets this guy up to sweep. STAB Dark Pulse wrecks havoc in the Ghost/Psychic filled terrain, especially after a Nasty Plot. I'm still unsure how useful he is though, and whether he should switch places with Kyogre as my Lead.

Team Role: My main sleeper. When a non-Sleep Talker gets shut down, it can completely ruin a team in Ubers, not to mention allowing me to set up. Allows me to get the upper hand in switching to an appropriate counter.



The Special Wall

Blissey @ Leftovers
Natural Cure
Calm | 252 Defense, 42 SpAtk, 216 SpDef
~Softboiled
~Aromatherapy
~Ice Beam
~Toxic

Description: Pretty much the best special wall in the game. She soaks up the many special hits like its nothing, and shrugs them off with Softboiled. She can also hurt pokemon that set up by poisoning them, and if they are Special Sweepers, stall them out with Softboiled. She can even take two Brick Breaks from Mewtwo or two Focus Punches from Darkrai.

Team Role: Special hits are very common in ubers, and Blissey does an impressive job in mopping them up. Also, she provides relief for statused members of the team, especially Rayquaza and Palkia.

Threat List
Rayquaza - Spacial Rend from Palkia.
Shedinja - Flamethrower from Rayquaza or Dark Pulse from Darkrai.
Palkia - Thunder from Kyogre or my own Palkia or Dragon Claw from Rayquaza.
Dialga - Physical sets get walled by my Dialga, as long as I have a BU under my belt. If its special, go to Blissey, but I'm not sure what to do with BU restalkers.
Kyogre - One of my two thunder users.
Groudon - Palkia destroys him with Surf. Kyogre's Surf or Water Spout can do him in, sometimes even in the sun.
Heatran - Palkia destroys him with Surf. So does Kyogre.
Forretress - Flamethrower owns it because of Air Lock.
Blissey - Water Spout, Rayquaza, Palkia, or Dialga can all take it out.
Mewtwo - Extremespeed from Rayquaza, or Scarf Palkia.
Giratina - Depending on whether is physical or CM, I go to Rayquaza or Palkia or Darkrai.

Post away!

 

[chenman333]

Unfortunately, DD Rayquaza kicks the crap out of your team. Once it gets set up, it outspeeds and KOs Dialga with Earthquake, and is then free to Outrage your whole team into oblivion.

My recommendation? Change Giratina to Lugia with a spread of 136 hp/124 Def/248 Spd to deal with SD ray and help with RP Groudon, and switch Dialga for Scarf Palkia, who can outspeed and KO Rayquaza once it is stuck into Outrage mode.

 

[thechocolatebunny]

i never really understood why SDray was used over DDray, SD dragon claw is weaker than DDoutrage, the only plus side it has is a stronger extremespeed but after a Dragon Dance extremespeed is just for deoxys, and freedom to attack, SDray benefits from that because it will use extremespeed on palkia,lati@s,ect. but DDray doesnt have to use extremespeed as much because of the speed boost,

also kyogre only has 279 speed which is very slow in ubers, water spout will rarely be at full power, maybe make it timid or give it hydro pump for that extra boost

 

[DT]

Not doing a full rate, but just quick glance what is Flamethower doing on blissey? Seismic Toss, Ice Beam, Thunder would all be better choices, since like you said most things in Ubers are Dragon, Psychic and Fire is giving little if any coverage on anything that will rear it's head in Ubers excluding Scizor, which can beat stalled out by Giratina, or Swept away by Rayquaza.

 

[bojangles]

Chen - Thanks. I was thinking of Lugia, but I wasn't sure. He makes a really nice Giratina Counter. Scarf Dialga is good because it has Extremespeed resist, which without Giratina, leaves my team open to SDray.

Chocolate - I guess I can test DDRay. Kyogre doesn't really need a +Speed nature. I only use water Spout when I know they won't do much damage, or when they won't go first. Replacing Water Spout or Modest would take a lot away from my firepower.

Donovan - Very good point. I'll switch to ice beam.

 

[Darklord]

i never really understood why SDray was used over DDray

ScarfPalkia and ScarfChomp are two of the most common revenge killers in the tier, both capable of stopping DDRay from sweeping.

I rarely see a team without ScarfPalkia these days.

A +2 Life Orb Extreemspeed, however, has a chance to KO both of them if they're not at full health, which is usually the case because SDRay usually comes late game to clean up.

 

[Markizzle]

1. Specs Kyogre sucks as a lead because:

A. The opposing lead is faster and can damage it enough to make Water Spout useless then beat the rest of its moves with resistances, OR

B. The more common option, the opposing lead is sashed and will take 2 hits to go down. The way Ubers is shaping up, letting DeoxysE set up SR AND Spikes is just asking to lose.

2. Also, SDRay is generally better but Scarf Dialga started being more used, so DDRay was chosen to slam Scarf Dialga.

As a consequence, Scarf Palkia had an uprising to stop DDRay.

3. Mewtwo sucks as a wall breaker, so either go Timid all Special Attacks, or, or Naive with Self Destruct over Brick Break. Definitely don't go Hasty, because with a neutral Def nature you stand some chance against SDRay XSpeed.

If you need a mixed attacker, look in MixQuaza's direction, or since he's already taken, Mix Giratina-O, but that might break the species clause, so that brings me to

4. TinaBliss isnt so unbeatable. Walls suck in Ubers if you don't go full stall, because SpecsOgre owns both Tina, and Blissey if it catches it on the switch. Instead, you can beat most threats with resistance, like Palkia can take on Kyogre, pure Steel Types(aka not Dialga) can come in on Dragon/Ice Attacks.

5. Finally, you need some sort of Stealth Rock on your team, which I lack at the moment too, but I'll figure out some way to get it back.

 

[bojangles]

Dark - I'm not exactly where your going with this, but I think your reinforcing my point about Scarf Dialga?...

Mark - Thanks for the comments. Generally my team doesnt have that big problems with SR. Also, I would never keep Mewtwo in against SDRay if it had set up, but I don't know what would replace him. He's one of the fastest pokemon in the game with great coverage. Normally I would agree with you about the no walls thing, but the main point of my physical wall (I'm thinking Lugia) is going to be to stop most versions of Rayquaza to a degree.

 

[chenman333]

Chen - Thanks. I was thinking of Lugia, but I wasn't sure. He makes a really nice Giratina Counter. Scarf Dialga is good because it has Extremespeed resist, which without Giratina, leaves my team open to SDray.

Chocolate - I guess I can test DDRay. Kyogre doesn't really need a +Speed nature. I only use water Spout when I know they won't do much damage, or when they won't go first. Replacing Water Spout or Modest would take a lot away from my firepower.

Donovan - Very good point. I'll switch to ice beam.

Lugia wrecks SD Rayquaza as long as you outspeed him. Extreme speed doesn't come close to koing him and you can easily just smack an ice beam at him for the kill.

 

[bojangles]

I have replaced Giratina with Lugia, and its working great. Still taking recommendations though. I can't tell you guys how many times Extremespeed has saved me from a weakened, set up sweeper, or Deoxys-A.

 

[Markizzle]

if you're gonna use Lugia, at least utilize one of the things it has over Giratina- Speed

You're using the standard set, but that only beats base 90s, most of whom either dont run max speed( Groudon, Dialga), or you have no business staying in with (Kyogre)

You don't need all that HP EVs, as Life Orb Stone Edge from Groudon will do 50% minimum anyway. You need at least 248 Speed EVs if you're going anything but Timid, just to Outspeed Rayquaza by a point
Lugia's Ice Beam as your "dragon counter" doesnt cut it either because most Dragons in Ubers, actually all of them except Rayquaza or maybe Garchomp, dont mind taking Lugia Ice Beams. You simply cannot afford to trade Ice Beam with Thunders from the Lati twins, and Lugia might take ScarfPalkia/Dialga Rends/Pulses well, but Ice Beam won't do much to them either.

Anyways, if Lugia is supposed to be your Rayquaza stopper, then its fine keeping him but Walls in general just invite stronger attackers to come in and put you on the defensive

If Lugia is in, and your opponent switches to SpecsKyogre, nothing on your team can switch in if its at full health without losing a big chunk of its health.

Even worse, If the other team has a Darkrai, it can either sleep Lugia allowing for a DDRayquaza Sweep, or if you try to be smart and switch in Blissey, he can just sleep the next guy coming in as well, either way you're losing someone to sleep. The idea is to not let Rayquaza/Darkrai setup, which is more easily done if you go full offense as opposed to a bunch of heavy hitters and 2 walls.

You can beat SDRayquaza with Scarf Dialga/Lugia, and DDRayquaza with Scarf Palkia, but if you dont feel like having too scarfers, i think its better if you pair Lugia with Scarf Palkia to ensure you stop both kinds of Rayquaza

Concerning Mewtwo, he may be fast but he just cant hit that hard without hitting weaknesses, like Grass Knot Groudon or Aura Sphere Dialga. If you try to Brick Break Dialga, you would just eat a Draco Meteor, and you're supposed mixattacker is no more. Mix attackers are somewhat less effective in Ubers, but like i said, Rayquaza and Giratina-O are both good options.

 

[bojangles]

I see what your saying about Mewtwo. What about a Mixed Palkia, because its good with Kyogre support? And as to Lugia, what about making it into a Bulky Special attacker? Then I can have a bulky, yet offensive player.

 

[MM_Zero]

Mewtwo is pretty much built for choice specs only, it doesn't really have much buisness being a mixed sweeper due to the lack of STAB and that rather poor attack stat. You got plenty of fast things on your team, so mixed Palkia with lustrous orb is perfect to compliment Kyogre.

That Lugia EV spread is outdated, change it. Either use the new 252 HP, 4 Def, 248 Speed set, OR use 252 HP, 252 Def, and 4 speed. I find the latter one to be more effective, but many prefer the first set to outspeed jolly ray.

Even though it seems highly tempting to switch in Blissey early game, try to resist it. Many teams now have metagross or scizor and those will trap and OHKO Blissey. Especially seeing that your team relies on Blissey, I'd hate to see you lose it early game. This is pretty much the reason why I prefer Latias>Blissey, but everything else on your team handles metagross and scizor very easily. Its a good thing you put a lot of defense into Blissey, but still bear in mind that it is still very painful to take a Pursuit, but even more painful dealing with brick break from scizor or meteor mash from gross.

Even though your team is generally fast, I still dislike seeing specsOgre as a lead. It's really slow, and any lead that is not Deoxys-S carries Thunder. Your team also has a massive Ho-oh weakness after it is gone, especially with the sunlight (any team with Ho-oh has Groudon). Choice Scarfed Sacred Fire 2HKO's your Lugia;rayquaza can't afford a sacred fire burn; it will outdamage your Dialga everytime, and obviously it will OHKO Blissey and Mewtwo. I suggest switching Kyogre and Dialga as leads, since you can't afford to lose Kyogre.

P.S. Fire is NOT a bad type in ubers; there are a lot of steel types that are now being used. However, your team doesn't have Groudon so don't use it.

 

[Jibaku]

Mewtwo is pretty much built for choice specs only

That is incorrect
- Mewtwo can be used as an all out Special Attacker with Life Orb/Expert Belt
- Mewtwo can be used as a semi-physical wall
- Mewtwo can be a Calm Minder

 

[Markizzle]

I see what your saying about Mewtwo. What about a Mixed Palkia, because its good with Kyogre support? And as to Lugia, what about making it into a Bulky Special attacker? Then I can have a bulky, yet offensive player.

No you'll just have a bulky player. CM Lugia can't do anything except take special hits. Blissey/Kyogre can still beat it with Psych Up/their own CM. Also, Lugia's hits don't do much damage without alot of CMs under its belt, and not just one or two. It could prove to be effective, but really its just more annoying to beat with its 3 ton SpDef. Any good player though, (aka not me, I once allowed Lugia to CM 4 times) would likely send in Darkrai who completely shuts down CM Lugia. CM Lugia doesnt really exist all that much, but it can catch people off-guard because no one prepares for it.

 

[bojangles]

Would adding a Hasty Palkia in lieu of Mewtwo help with my Ho-Oh weakness? Darkrai is also a possibility...

 

[Markizzle]

you're actually not Ho-Oh weak all that much because Kyogre can take it on surprisingly well.

Ho-Oh sucks, but since you don't have SR, it might be a bit bigger threat than normal. Like someone said, most Ho-Ohs are scarfed, so its strongest attack against Palkia would be Return, which is ridiculous but shouldn't be taken lightly, especially if you're going Hasty.

Darkrai will never think about switching into Scarf Ho-Oh, so you can forget about that.

One thing about Palkia though, without a scarf its still one of the slower Ubers, and won't serve any purposes its meant to if it had a Scarf, like Surfing the likes of Darkrai and Mewtwo to death(under Rain)
It's also one of the few Pokemon able to stop DDRay, so that may be something to consider.

You don't really need a wall breaker because SpecsOgre already owns all of them except for Blissey if it doesnt switch in.

However, with that being said, you do need some sort of physical attacker because Rayquaza as you're only one isnt that good, I mean we wouldnt want Rayquaza eating an Ice Beam from something like Blissey, would we? Rayquaza also can't KO Blissey with any of its attacks except Outrage, at least I dont think so. So if you have to Outrage just to kill Blissey, then Rayquaza is easy bait.

So like someone said, Scizor and Metagross could prove useful as they can Pursuit Blissey if she switches out, or just SuperPower/Meteor Mash it to smush if it stays in. They also provide steel typing, which is always useful

 

[bojangles]

I was thinking of replacing Mewtwo with MixPalkia, because it has more physical attacks. I'm going to test the team like that, and see whether I need Metagross or Scizor more.

EDIT: I made some changes, but I'm stilling thinking about how good they are before I edit them in. I changed Mewtwo to a Scarf Palkia with Spacial Rend. Dialga lost his scarf and is now running the Bulk Up set, and because of this, I took out Lugia and replaced him with NP Darkrai.

 

[MM_Zero]

you're actually not Ho-Oh weak all that much because Kyogre can take it on surprisingly well.

Ho-Oh sucks, but since you don't have SR, it might be a bit bigger threat than normal. Like someone said, most Ho-Ohs are scarfed, so its strongest attack against Palkia would be Return, which is ridiculous but shouldn't be taken lightly, especially if you're going Hasty.

Darkrai will never think about switching into Scarf Ho-Oh, so you can forget about that.

One thing about Palkia though, without a scarf its still one of the slower Ubers, and won't serve any purposes its meant to if it had a Scarf, like Surfing the likes of Darkrai and Mewtwo to death(under Rain)
It's also one of the few Pokemon able to stop DDRay, so that may be something to consider.

You don't really need a wall breaker because SpecsOgre already owns all of them except for Blissey if it doesnt switch in.

However, with that being said, you do need some sort of physical attacker because Rayquaza as you're only one isnt that good, I mean we wouldnt want Rayquaza eating an Ice Beam from something like Blissey, would we? Rayquaza also can't KO Blissey with any of its attacks except Outrage, at least I dont think so. So if you have to Outrage just to kill Blissey, then Rayquaza is easy bait.

So like someone said, Scizor and Metagross could prove useful as they can Pursuit Blissey if she switches out, or just SuperPower/Meteor Mash it to smush if it stays in. They also provide steel typing, which is always useful

First off, he's not using palkia on his team (yet). 2nd off, his Kyogre is a lead, so it will be gone quickly. Due to that, he is Ho-oh weak. Yes Palkia is a big help to you right now as it gets the rain boost and can easily beat Ho-oh. But you'll need another physical sweeper, so might I suggest making your scarf Dialga a mixed set? Outrage>Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor and take off some sp. atk EVs for Atk EVs should do it.

About Mewtwo, yeah it can CM, but besides for speed, Darkrai and the Latis do it better (the speed does mean something though). The semi-physical wall is a nice surprise, but I just don't really see why you'd use it over Lugia? An all-out set isn't half bad either, but again the lack of STAB kinda sucks, so I prefer specs. Overall Mewtwo does have some options, but from what I've seen, specs just seems to be the best for it. Just my opinion though ;-).

 

[Markizzle]

First off, he's not using palkia on his team (yet). 2nd off, his Kyogre is a lead, so it will be gone quickly. Due to that, he is Ho-oh weak. Yes Palkia is a big help to you right now as it gets the rain boost and can easily beat Ho-oh. But you'll need another physical sweeper, so might I suggest making your scarf Dialga a mixed set? Outrage>Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor and take off some sp. atk EVs for Atk EVs should do it.

About Mewtwo, yeah it can CM, but besides for speed, Darkrai and the Latis do it better (the speed does mean something though). The semi-physical wall is a nice surprise, but I just don't really see why you'd use it over Lugia? An all-out set isn't half bad either, but again the lack of STAB kinda sucks, so I prefer specs. Overall Mewtwo does have some options, but from what I've seen, specs just seems to be the best for it. Just my opinion though ;-).

Yes which is why alot of people are telling him that SpecsKyogre is a really bad lead. Mixed Dialga isnt going to Physical Sweep anything, it can use physical attacks but thats about it. Thats why you need some other physical presense, like Groudon, Scizor or Metagross.

 

[MM_Zero]

Well, Outrage with some attack EVs actually would be quite good enough for a physical sweeper, provided that he already has rayquaza. Groudon wouldn't help with the flow and strategy of his team. Metagross and Scizor aren't really proving too useful anymore, due to the fact that smart people are now using HP Fire on the Latis which they are designed to counter. The only thing they still are good against is Darkrai and Bliss, but Dialga should easily take care of those.

 

[Markizzle]

Well, Outrage with some attack EVs actually would be quite good enough for a physical sweeper, provided that he already has rayquaza. Groudon wouldn't help with the flow and strategy of his team. Metagross and Scizor aren't really proving too useful anymore, due to the fact that smart people are now using HP Fire on the Latis which they are designed to counter. The only thing they still are good against is Darkrai and Bliss, but Dialga should easily take care of those.

Yes that is true, HP Fire on the Latis are growing in numbers
I don't get what you mean by Groudon not helping the flow of this team, I mean its not particularly a Rain Based team unless he adds Palkia

As for Outraging Dialga, its generaly a bad idea because that sort of defeats the purpose of using Scarf Dialga, as you'll be trapped for a couple of turns
Then, the aforementioned Groudon can come in and either Rock Polish or just EQ you to death.

I've never really used Scizor/Metagross to counter the Lati's, perse, as much I use them for their Steel Typing, which every Uber team should have.

BTW MM Zero, you wouldnt happen to have a brother whose also good at Ubers, would you?

One last note, this may sound pretty stupid but if you are going to go with Outrage, get rid of Aura Sphere. Personally I would have Fire Blast to take care of Steel Types trying to come in to take the Dragon Pulse. If you're going to go Outrage, you need Dragon Pulse for late game cleanups, Draco Meteor for that extra Umph against other Dialgas, Mewtwos and Darkrai. Using Aura Sphere just allows DDRayquaza/Mewtwo to come in, and a supereffective Aura Sphere is still less powerful than a neutral Draco Meteor. 3 Dragon Moves is really pushing it though, which is why I'd go without Outrage as it lets you go Timid while still keeping your Defs up to shape

Also, I remember somebody saying Life Orb is used on Mewtwo to guaruntee the KOs on Darkrai/Tyranitar with Aura Sphere, so a Life Orbless Dialga should be less well off. I wouldnt be surprised to see Darkrai survive with like 7%. Actually, after doing calcs, Darkrai takes 84%-100% from Timid Dialga, so on a team w/o SR, Darkrai can survive, also it has a chance of surviving even with SR

 

[bojangles]

Ok. I edited in the changes I made to the team. Tell me what you think of it now.