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Okay, you all know I'm anti-Uber at the moment, but I'm going to provide some sort of objectivity here by posting a stack of logs. Please don't judge me, I'm not the best player around. All I did is make a team with DDMence in it, and recorded the first 8 matches that I played. Rather simple (I got owned quite a few times but whatever, I wasn't deliberately playing crap). I'm "WE MISS LATIAS", because we do, hehe. Take these logs as just raw data, I'm not going to analyse them (YET).
Match 1: You used FIRE BLAST on a Resting Swampert with your Salamence. Then, on the turn you KNEW it was going to wake up, you used Dragon Dance. I don't have to explain this, do I? A bad play doesn't make an argument work.
Match 2: Normal game, Salamence swept a bit at the end, but nothing exciting, as a lot of pokemon could have done the same.
Match 3: Salamence was switched into Breloom as it substituted. You used Fire Blast twice, which missed and cost you a Salamence. 85% accuracy sucks, yup :). Although you did have a gaping Breloom weakness to your team, Salamence didn't really do anything either way, so it's kinda pointless.
Match 4: Both players used a Salamence. You came in on a Heracross, which was an excellent move, he switched to Metagross and ate a Flamethrower? I have no idea why he did that. You sacrificed your Salamence later on to try and take out a Snorlax that set up on you, and your Salamence failed to do so. Not really played in such a way as to show whether it is uber or not, as your team just really could not handle a Snorlax at all (very special heavy except for Salamence, and Swampert can't hope to break through after a curse).
His Salamence killed your low HP Swampert after you Roared, which lots of pokemon could do. Nothing here screams overpowered either, but he didn't even get to bring his out again, so who knows?
Match 5: No Salamence.
Match 6: You went up against a Rain Dance team. Your Salamence came in on a locked Scizor, and you set up DD. Then, Roserade came in for who knows what reason and you EQ'd for the KO. I guess he wanted to get Qwilfish in undamaged. Qwilfish exploded and killed your Mence, who outran you even after your DD. Nothing really outrageously overpowered here, but you didn't have any kind of counter for a Rain Dance team at all. Oh well.
Match 7: You sent Salamence into Flygon who you thought was locked into Earthquake. That's fine, it even EQ's as you switch in. His Flygon was not choiced, and OHKO's with Draco Meteor. Wow, balls of steel on that one. Both sides really. I never would have guessed Flygon both didn't have a scarf AND it was packing Draco Meteor. Surprise won that fight, for sure. Salamence can be killed, no doubt, by surprise sets with speed ties, but I wouldn't count on that happening every time.
Match 8: Two Salamences. You sent yours in on a Machamp who was devastating your team thanks to a lucky crit on your Swampert. You lock yourself into Outrage, killing the Machamp but Scizor neuters you. You switch it out and it doesn't come back out the rest of the game.
His Salamence came in on your weakened Heatran. You opted to use your Magnezone as death fodder, and switched in Flygon to revenge, which worked surprisingly. He could have easily switched out, but it also doesn't show any reason why Salamence would be overpowered either.
So, 8 matches and I didn't see any uber characteristics displayed, but I also didn't see anything stellar happen when Salamence was played (there was one Baton Pass team in there that was a LOL to watch fail).
Well, I used Fire Blast on the Resting Swampert in Match 1 because I was predicting a Steel switch-in to be honest, that's why I Fire Blasted. Over-predicting sucks =(. Anyway, I'm going to a similar log-fest for MixMence now, so I'll be back soon (May just edit this post if no-one posts after me).
But you're the ones pro-actively wanting to ban Mence. It's like an "innocent-until-proven-guilty" sort of situation. If you have no proof to prove that Mence is Uber (Or your proof is proven to be false), then he isn't. I'm quite sure this place has a "ban as less Pokemon as possible" stance, so if you can't provide overwhelming evidence for Mence being Uber, then he shouldn't be banned.
Also, I just wanted to respond to this real quick. You're right, Salamence is now OU and good arguments backed by proper playing experience need to be presented in order for it to change tiering positions, not the other way around. But you have to understand that this is not a one-sided debate where the anti-Uber supporters are the gods of Pokemon and are indemnified from If you can't refute our points, then we have the right to claim Salamence is indeed Uber.
So far, I've read not one post that directly and straightforwardly counters the pro-Uber's overall argument that Salamence 2HKOs the metagame and that there are no practical ways to counter it in OU. If you're going to make the pro-Ubers jump through hoops to defend their stance (and we've done so, mind you, not because we needed to, but because we're perfectly capable of doing so and have a lot more to work with than you guys do), then you'd better at least grant us the liberty of doing the same before you stubbornly parade the topic with your viewpoints.
EDIT: Also, I appreciate the fact that you're posting logs and everything to actually back up your side of the debate, but I think you're kind of missing the point to why we're posting these logs at all to begin with. We don't just need examples, we need good examples, so that they'll actually amount to something other than random collected data. Random matches with huge skill gaps and inexperienced Salamence players can't exactly show us what it's capable of doing.
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
SJCrew sent out Angel of Death (lvl 100 Azelf).
Pokefreak77 sent out Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
Angel of Death used U-turn.
Swampert lost 22% of its health.
SJCrew switched in Death Toll (lvl 100 Bronzong).
Swampert used Ice Beam.
It's not very effective...
Death Toll lost 9% of its health.
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
---
Swampert used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Death Toll used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
---
Pokefreak77 switched in Rotom-h (lvl 100 Rotom-h).
Pointed stones dug into Rotom-h.
Rotom-h lost 12% of its health.
Death Toll used Light Screen.
A barrier was formed!
Rotom-h's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rotom-h restored 6% of its health.
---
SJCrew switched in El Blaze (lvl 100 Infernape ?).
Pointed stones dug into El Blaze.
El Blaze lost 12% of its health.
Rotom-h used Will-o-wisp.
Rotom-h's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rotom-h restored 6% of its health.
---
El Blaze used Overheat.
Rotom-h lost 75% of its health.
El Blaze's special attack was harshly lowered.
El Blaze lost 10% of its health.
Rotom-h used Thunderbolt.
El Blaze lost 27% of its health.
Rotom-h's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rotom-h restored 6% of its health.
---
Pokefreak77 switched in Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
Pointed stones dug into Swampert.
Swampert lost 6% of its health.
El Blaze used Overheat.
It's not very effective...
Swampert lost 17% of its health.
El Blaze's special attack was harshly lowered.
El Blaze lost 10% of its health.
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
---
SJCrew switched in Angel of Death (lvl 100 Azelf).
Pointed stones dug into Angel of Death.
Angel of Death lost 12% of its health.
Pokefreak77 switched in Roserade (lvl 100 Roserade ?).
Pointed stones dug into Roserade.
Roserade lost 12% of its health.
Roserade's leftovers restored its health a little!
Roserade restored 6% of its health.
---
Angel of Death used Ice Punch.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Roserade lost 94% of its health.
Pokefreak77's Roserade fainted.
---
Pokefreak77 switched in Heatran (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Pointed stones dug into Heatran.
Heatran lost 12% of its health.
SJCrew switched in Dracolord (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Dracolord's Intimidate cut Heatran's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Dracolord.
Dracolord lost 25% of its health.
Heatran used Fire Blast.
It's not very effective...
Dracolord lost 25% of its health.
---
Pokefreak77 switched in Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
Pointed stones dug into Swampert.
Swampert lost 6% of its health.
Dracolord used Earthquake.
Swampert lost 33% of its health.
Dracolord lost 10% of its health.
Dracolord's light screen wore off!
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
---
Dracolord used Outrage.
Dracolord went on a rampage!
Swampert lost 41% of its health.
Pokefreak77's Swampert fainted.
Dracolord lost 10% of its health.
---
Pokefreak77 switched in Heatran (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Pointed stones dug into Heatran.
Heatran lost 12% of its health.
Heatran used Dragon Pulse.
It's super effective!
Dracolord lost 30% of its health.
SJCrew's Dracolord fainted.
---
SJCrew switched in Kill Order (lvl 100 Magnezone).
Pointed stones dug into Kill Order.
Kill Order lost 6% of its health.
Heatran used Dragon Pulse.
It's not very effective...
Kill Order lost 22% of its health.
Kill Order used Thunderbolt.
Heatran lost 75% of its health.
Pokefreak77's Heatran fainted.
---
Pokefreak77 switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Salamence's Intimidate cut Kill Order's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Salamence.
Salamence lost 25% of its health.
Salamence used Fire Blast.
It's super effective!
Kill Order lost 72% of its health.
SJCrew's Kill Order fainted.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
---
SJCrew switched in Mistwalker (lvl 100 Suicune).
Mistwalker is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Mistwalker.
Mistwalker lost 12% of its health.
Pokefreak77 switched in Rotom-h (lvl 100 Rotom-h).
Pointed stones dug into Rotom-h.
Rotom-h lost 12% of its health.
Mistwalker used Ice Beam.
Rotom-h lost 19% of its health.
Pokefreak77's Rotom-h fainted.
Mistwalker's leftovers restored its health a little!
Mistwalker restored 6% of its health.
---
Pokefreak77 switched in Feraligatr (lvl 100 Feraligatr ?).
Pointed stones dug into Feraligatr.
Feraligatr lost 12% of its health.
Feraligatr used Swords Dance.
Feraligatr's attack was sharply raised.
Mistwalker used Roar.
Pokefreak77 switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Salamence's Intimidate cut Mistwalker's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Salamence.
Salamence lost 25% of its health.
Mistwalker's leftovers restored its health a little!
Mistwalker restored 6% of its health.
---
Salamence used Draco Meteor.
Mistwalker lost 66% of its health.
Salamence's special attack was harshly lowered.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
Mistwalker used Ice Beam.
It's super effective!
Salamence lost 30% of its health.
Pokefreak77's Salamence fainted.
Mistwalker's leftovers restored its health a little!
Mistwalker restored 6% of its health.
---
Pokefreak77 has left the room.
SJCrew wins!
In this instance, Swampert attempts to check Salamence, but dies to a combination of Earthquake and Outrage. Prior damage from Uturn was dealt, but according to the damage calculator, an unboosted Outrage from a +Att DDmence depletes well over half of Swampert's HP, garnering a 2HKO. Unfortunately, Outrage lasted a third turn, leaving Salamence vulnerable to a revenge kill from Heatran. But more importantly, one of Salamence's most prominent DD checks dies.
Also, I think it's worth pointing out that Scarftran's use of Dragon Pulse left it completely helpless to the incoming Magnezone.
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
SJCrew sent out Angel of Death (lvl 100 Azelf).
-Hugo- sent out Uxie (lvl 100 Uxie).
Angel of Death used Explosion.
Uxie lost 100% of its health.
-Hugo-'s Uxie fainted.
SJCrew's Angel of Death fainted.
---
SJCrew: plz go
SJCrew switched in Dracolord (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
-Hugo- switched in Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
Dracolord's Intimidate cut Swampert's attack!
SJCrew switched in Death Toll (lvl 100 Bronzong).
Swampert used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
---
-Hugo- switched in Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
Death Toll used Light Screen.
A barrier was formed!
---
Jolteon used Shadow Ball.
Death Toll lost 13% of its health.
Death Toll used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
---
Jolteon used Shadow Ball.
Death Toll lost 12% of its health.
Death Toll used Explosion.
Jolteon lost 100% of its health.
-Hugo-'s Jolteon fainted.
SJCrew's Death Toll fainted.
---
SJCrew switched in Dracolord (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
-Hugo- switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
Dracolord's Intimidate cut Gyarados's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Dracolord.
Dracolord lost 25% of its health.
Gyarados's Intimidate cut Dracolord's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Gyarados.
Gyarados lost 25% of its health.
Dracolord used Outrage.
Dracolord went on a rampage!
Gyarados lost 75% of its health.
-Hugo-'s Gyarados fainted.
Dracolord lost 10% of its health.
---
-Hugo- switched in Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
Pointed stones dug into Swampert.
Swampert lost 6% of its health.
Dracolord used Outrage.
Swampert lost 48% of its health.
Dracolord lost 10% of its health.
Swampert used Roar.
SJCrew switched in El Blaze (lvl 100 Infernape ?).
Pointed stones dug into El Blaze.
El Blaze lost 12% of its health.
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
---
SJCrew switched in Dracolord (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Dracolord's Intimidate cut Swampert's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Dracolord.
Dracolord lost 25% of its health.
-Hugo- switched in Dragonite (lvl 100 Dragonite ?).
Pointed stones dug into Dragonite.
Dragonite lost 25% of its health.
---
-Hugo- switched in Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
Pointed stones dug into Swampert.
Swampert lost 6% of its health.
Dracolord used Outrage.
Dracolord went on a rampage!
Swampert lost 46% of its health.
-Hugo-'s Swampert fainted.
Dracolord lost 10% of its health.
---
-Hugo- switched in Dragonite (lvl 100 Dragonite ?).
Pointed stones dug into Dragonite.
Dragonite lost 25% of its health.
Dracolord used Outrage.
It's super effective!
Dragonite lost 50% of its health.
-Hugo-'s Dragonite fainted.
Dracolord lost 10% of its health.
Dracolord's light screen wore off!
Dracolord's rampage ended.
Dracolord became confused!
---
-Hugo- switched in Kingdra (lvl 100 Kingdra ?).
Pointed stones dug into Kingdra.
Kingdra lost 12% of its health.
Dracolord is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
Dracolord lost 11% of its health.
SJCrew's Dracolord fainted.
Kingdra used Dragon Dance.
Kingdra's attack was raised.
Kingdra's speed was raised.
---
SJCrew switched in Kill Order (lvl 100 Magnezone).
Pointed stones dug into Kill Order.
Kill Order lost 6% of its health.
Kingdra used Waterfall.
Kill Order lost 84% of its health.
Kill Order flinched!
---
Kingdra used Waterfall.
Kill Order lost 10% of its health.
SJCrew's Kill Order fainted.
---
SJCrew switched in Mistwalker (lvl 100 Suicune).
Mistwalker is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Mistwalker.
Mistwalker lost 12% of its health.
Kingdra used Dragon Dance.
Kingdra's attack was raised.
Kingdra's speed was raised.
Mistwalker used Ice Beam.
Kingdra lost 25% of its health.
Mistwalker's leftovers restored its health a little!
Mistwalker restored 6% of its health.
---
Kingdra used Dragon Dance.
Kingdra's attack was raised.
Kingdra's speed was raised.
Mistwalker used Ice Beam.
Kingdra lost 25% of its health.
Mistwalker's leftovers restored its health a little!
Mistwalker restored 6% of its health.
---
Kingdra used Outrage.
Kingdra went on a rampage!
Mistwalker lost 72% of its health.
Mistwalker used Ice Beam.
Kingdra lost 29% of its health.
Kingdra was frozen solid!
Mistwalker's leftovers restored its health a little!
Mistwalker restored 6% of its health.
---
Kingdra is frozen solid!
Mistwalker used Ice Beam.
Kingdra lost 8% of its health.
-Hugo-'s Kingdra fainted.
SJCrew wins!
-Hugo- has left the room.
Salamence comes in and immediately kills Gyarados with Outrage even at -1. Light Screen is up, so the incoming Swampert is forced to Roar instead of Ice Beam. But Salamence comes back in for round two and uses Outrage once more, which finishes off Swampert as well as Dragonite.
At this point, you're probably thinking, "Where's his Steel? What's with all the DDers? This guy sucks." While I'm not sure this match is representative of the the competence of my opponent or his strategy, judging from the Uxie lead, it appears his strategy consisted of Dual Screens with Uturn, to break the sash on Taunt abusers and handle them with the appropriate check.
With Screens up, my opponent could have initiated a chain of bulky DD sweepers, who would continue to weaken each other's counters one after the other, until the opponent's defensive core is damaged enough for a successful sweep.
Of course, this strategy would have been successful were it not for my Azelf lead's Explosion and the immediate pressure applied by my Salamence. I won't deny that Light Screen also played a pivotal role in this, which prevented Swampert from killing it and allowed Salamence to steal two more kills, possibly another if the confusion from Outrage hadn't kicked in; however, the kill on Gyarados and damage to Swampert were all Salamence, which paved the way for my Infernape to take on the rest of his team.
For good measure, let's take a look at all of the other Pokemon that would have been capable of successfully KOing or 2HKOing Gyarados at -1 in this very situation without using Explosion:
Aerodactyl: countered/prevented by Swamert
Azelf (w/Tbolt): countered/prevented by Jolteon
Dusknoir (w/Tpunch): Jolteon (though most players would not expect a Thunder Punch, to be fair)
Electivire: Jolteon
Gengar (w/Tbolt): Jolteon
Heracross (CB Stone Edge): Swampert
Jirachi: Swampert
Jolteon: Swampert/Jolteon
Metagross (Agility Thunder Punch): Swampert
Rotom-A: Jolteon
Starmie: Jolteon
Suicune (HP Electric): Jolteon
Tyranitar: Swampert
Vaporeon: Jolteon
Zapdos: Jolteon/Swampert
Also, I looked up the calcs for -1 Salamence's Outrage and realized I took a huge risk there opting to Outrage right away, but I wanted Gyara gone ASAP and knew that Salamence's +Att nature would at least give it a chance to KO. More importantly, every single OU on that list feasibly capable of KOing Gyarados would have been annulled by my opponent's switch-in, save for Salamence, who could have KOed it with an Outrage or Draco Meteor.
(PS: The bit of hax at the end had no bearing on the outcome, as I had a priority user lying in wait to KO it)
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
SJCrew sent out Angel of Death (lvl 100 Azelf).
cukowNz sent out Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
Angel of Death used U-turn.
Swampert lost 24% of its health.
SJCrew switched in Death Toll (lvl 100 Bronzong).
Swampert used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
---
cukowNz switched in Zapdos (lvl 100 Zapdos).
Zapdos is exerting its pressure!
Death Toll used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
---
Zapdos used Heat Wave.
It's super effective!
Death Toll lost 62% of its health.
Death Toll used Light Screen.
A barrier was formed!
---
Zapdos used Thunderbolt.
Death Toll lost 23% of its health.
Death Toll used Reflect.
A barrier was formed!
---
Zapdos used Thunderbolt.
Death Toll lost 16% of its health.
SJCrew's Death Toll fainted.
---
SJCrew switched in Dracolord (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Dracolord's Intimidate cut Zapdos's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Dracolord.
Dracolord lost 25% of its health.
cukowNz switched in Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
Pointed stones dug into Swampert.
Swampert lost 6% of its health.
Dracolord used Dragon Dance.
Dracolord's attack was raised.
Dracolord's speed was raised.
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
---
Dracolord used Outrage.
Dracolord went on a rampage!
Swampert lost 82% of its health.
cukowNz's Swampert fainted.
Dracolord lost 10% of its health.
---
cukowNz switched in Skarmory (lvl 100 Skarmory ?).
Pointed stones dug into Skarmory.
Skarmory lost 12% of its health.
Dracolord used Outrage.
It's not very effective...
Skarmory lost 41% of its health.
Dracolord lost 10% of its health.
Skarmory used Roost.
Skarmory restored 50% of its health.
Skarmory's leftovers restored its health a little!
Skarmory restored 3% of its health.
---
Dracolord used Outrage.
It's not very effective...
Skarmory lost 41% of its health.
Dracolord lost 10% of its health.
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
Dracolord lost 21% of its health.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 7% of its health.
Dracolord's rampage ended.
Dracolord became confused!
Skarmory's leftovers restored its health a little!
Skarmory restored 6% of its health.
---
Dracolord is confused!
Dracolord used Fire Blast.
It's super effective!
Skarmory lost 58% of its health.
cukowNz's Skarmory fainted.
Dracolord lost 10% of its health.
Dracolord's light screen wore off!
---
cukowNz switched in Heracross (lvl 100 Heracross ?).
Pointed stones dug into Heracross.
Heracross lost 12% of its health.
Dracolord snapped out of confusion!
Dracolord used Fire Blast.
It's super effective!
Heracross lost 88% of its health.
cukowNz's Heracross fainted.
Dracolord lost 10% of its health.
Dracolord's reflect wore off!
---
cukowNz switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Pointed stones dug into Blissey.
Blissey lost 12% of its health.
Dracolord used Outrage.
Dracolord went on a rampage!
Blissey lost 88% of its health.
cukowNz's Blissey fainted.
Dracolord lost 5% of its health.
SJCrew's Dracolord fainted.
---
SJCrew switched in Angel of Death (lvl 100 Azelf).
cukowNz switched in Zapdos (lvl 100 Zapdos).
Pointed stones dug into Angel of Death.
Angel of Death lost 12% of its health.
Zapdos is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Zapdos.
Zapdos lost 25% of its health.
Angel of Death used Ice Punch.
It's super effective!
Zapdos lost 75% of its health.
cukowNz's Zapdos fainted.
---
cukowNz switched in Gengar (lvl 100 Gengar ?).
Pointed stones dug into Gengar.
Gengar lost 12% of its health.
Angel of Death used Ice Punch.
Gengar lost 80% of its health.
Gengar used Shadow Ball.
It's super effective!
Angel of Death lost 88% of its health.
SJCrew's Angel of Death fainted.
---
SJCrew switched in Mistwalker (lvl 100 Suicune).
Mistwalker is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Mistwalker.
Mistwalker lost 12% of its health.
Gengar used Thunderbolt.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Mistwalker lost 88% of its health.
SJCrew's Mistwalker fainted.
---
SJCrew: yeah
SJCrew switched in El Blaze (lvl 100 Infernape ?).
Pointed stones dug into El Blaze.
El Blaze lost 12% of its health.
Gengar used Shadow Ball.
El Blaze lost 69% of its health.
El Blaze used Overheat.
Gengar lost 8% of its health.
cukowNz's Gengar fainted.
SJCrew wins!
cukowNz has left the room.
Salamence pretty much owns everything here, not much to explain. The KO on Swampert was practically guaranteed at the amount of HP it had, as I was running an attack-boosting nature. At +1 that brings us to: 81.2% - 95.8%. The blue swamp monster had to pull a miracle in order to survive, which are pretty nice odds for me to bank on.
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
Esterk sent out Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
SJCrew sent out Angel of Death (lvl 100 Azelf).
Angel of Death used U-turn.
Metagross lost 28% of its health.
SJCrew switched in Kill Order (lvl 100 Magnezone).
Metagross used Meteor Mash.
It's not very effective...
Kill Order lost 16% of its health.
---
Kill Order used Thunderbolt.
Metagross lost 72% of its health.
Esterk's Metagross fainted.
---
Esterk switched in Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
SJCrew switched in Death Toll (lvl 100 Bronzong).
Swampert used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
---
Esterk switched in Breloom (lvl 100 Breloom ?).
Death Toll used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Breloom was badly poisoned!
---
Breloom used Spore.
Death Toll fell asleep!
Death Toll is fast asleep!
Breloom's Poison Heal restored health!
---
SJCrew switched in Angel of Death (lvl 100 Azelf).
Pointed stones dug into Angel of Death.
Angel of Death lost 12% of its health.
Breloom used Substitute.
Breloom lost 25% of its health.
Breloom made a substitute!
Breloom's Poison Heal restored health!
Breloom restored 13% of its health.
---
Breloom is tightening its focus!
Angel of Death used U-turn.
The substitute took damage for Breloom!
Breloom's substitute faded!
SJCrew switched in Dracolord (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Dracolord's Intimidate cut Breloom's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Dracolord.
Dracolord lost 25% of its health.
Breloom used Focus Punch.
It's not very effective...
Dracolord lost 34% of its health.
Breloom's Poison Heal restored health!
Breloom restored 13% of its health.
---
onlinehawtprincess has entered the room.
Esterk switched in Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
Pointed stones dug into Swampert.
Swampert lost 6% of its health.
Dracolord used Outrage.
Dracolord went on a rampage!
Swampert lost 62% of its health.
Dracolord lost 10% of its health.
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
---
Dracolord used Outrage.
Swampert lost 38% of its health.
Esterk's Swampert fainted.
Dracolord lost 10% of its health.
---
Esterk switched in Heatran (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Pointed stones dug into Heatran.
Heatran lost 12% of its health.
Heatran used Fire Blast.
It's not very effective...
Dracolord lost 21% of its health.
SJCrew's Dracolord fainted.
---
SJCrew switched in Mistwalker (lvl 100 Suicune).
Mistwalker is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Mistwalker.
Mistwalker lost 12% of its health.
Esterk switched in Breloom (lvl 100 Breloom ?).
Pointed stones dug into Breloom.
Breloom lost 6% of its health.
Mistwalker used Ice Beam.
It's super effective!
Breloom lost 73% of its health.
Breloom's Poison Heal restored health!
Breloom restored 13% of its health.
Mistwalker's leftovers restored its health a little!
Mistwalker restored 6% of its health.
---
Esterk switched in Heatran (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Pointed stones dug into Heatran.
Heatran lost 12% of its health.
Mistwalker used Ice Beam.
It's not very effective...
Heatran lost 5% of its health.
Mistwalker's leftovers restored its health a little!
Mistwalker restored 6% of its health.
---
SJCrew switched in Death Toll (lvl 100 Bronzong).
Pointed stones dug into Death Toll.
Death Toll lost 6% of its health.
Heatran used Explosion.
It's not very effective...
A critical hit!
Death Toll lost 66% of its health.
Esterk's Heatran fainted.
---
Esterk switched in Breloom (lvl 100 Breloom ?).
Pointed stones dug into Breloom.
Breloom lost 6% of its health.
SJCrew switched in Angel of Death (lvl 100 Azelf).
Pointed stones dug into Angel of Death.
Angel of Death lost 12% of its health.
Breloom used Substitute.
Breloom lost 25% of its health.
Breloom made a substitute!
Breloom's Poison Heal restored health!
Breloom restored 13% of its health.
---
Breloom is tightening its focus!
Angel of Death used U-turn.
The substitute took damage for Breloom!
Breloom's substitute faded!
Angel of Death is already out.
SJCrew switched in Death Toll (lvl 100 Bronzong).
Pointed stones dug into Death Toll.
Death Toll lost 6% of its health.
Breloom used Focus Punch.
Death Toll lost 22% of its health.
SJCrew's Death Toll fainted.
Breloom's Poison Heal restored health!
Breloom restored 13% of its health.
---
SJCrew switched in Angel of Death (lvl 100 Azelf).
Pointed stones dug into Angel of Death.
Angel of Death lost 12% of its health.
Esterk switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Salamence's Intimidate cut Angel of Death's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Salamence.
Salamence lost 25% of its health.
Angel of Death used U-turn.
It's not very effective...
Salamence lost 15% of its health.
SJCrew switched in El Blaze (lvl 100 Infernape ?).
Pointed stones dug into El Blaze.
El Blaze lost 12% of its health.
---
El Blaze used Stone Edge.
It's super effective!
Salamence lost 61% of its health.
Esterk's Salamence fainted.
El Blaze lost 10% of its health.
---
Esterk switched in Suicune (lvl 100 Suicune).
Suicune is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Suicune.
Suicune lost 12% of its health.
El Blaze used Close Combat.
Suicune lost 65% of its health.
El Blaze's defence was lowered.
El Blaze's special defence was lowered.
El Blaze lost 10% of its health.
Suicune used Calm Mind.
Suicune's special attack was raised.
Suicune's special defence was raised.
Suicune's leftovers restored its health a little!
Suicune restored 6% of its health.
---
Esterk has left the room.
SJCrew wins!
onlinehawtprincess has left the room.
Another match where Salamence rips Swampert a new one, nothing new, leaving one less check for Infernape. The misprediction on my opponent's part at the end was a non-factor; I had him in a checkmate position where Azelf could finish off the weakened Suicune and Breloom even if he opted to attack instead.
You might notice that in these examples, I used Salamence in a completely different manner than usual: attack first and DD later. The reason for this is that Salamence's most common DD checks only beat him with the assumption that he uses DD right away; if I test the waters first (pun intended, actually, since as you can see, Swampert was around the corner nearly every time I attempted this), I can open up a sweep for Salamence without having to rely on my opponent's team being weakened through residual damage or the rest of my teammates. Though my tactics are a bit reckless, they've worked more often than not, and through a series of roughly 20 or so battles, my CRE jumped about 30 points.
I think this goes to show that DDmence doesn't even need a Dragon Dance under its belt in order to maintain its status as the most potent offensive threat in OU. You still have to be careful about absolutely everything you switch in, even if you're aware of the set you're facing, and if you're facing a competent player the odds are almost never in your favor.
First off, most of your opponents pretty much handed their Swampert on a silver platter to your Salamence. Their were many instances were they could of, and should of, sent in their steel to your salamence after their swampert tankened the first hit or you used DD, in most instences their was almost no reason for them to have just give their Swampert up the way they did. I thought it was a common stradegy to bait an Outrage and switch to a steel on it, and in these cases, that stradegy would of worked for them. I also feel its a little bias to play with your Salamence behind screens as that stops certaint teams ways of dealing with it, and many sweepers can become strong and knock huge holes in teams behind screens, like heatran.
I have to say these don't have me convinced (I'm on the fence at the moment, so I'm not some Pro-OUer who's going to shoot down any and all evidence presented to them). As far as I see it, Swampert doesn't have business trying to counter Salamence anyway considering it doesn't resist dragon, so I don't see why many of the people in your log opted to use it as their primary counter. In these matches, Salamence pretty much just killed their Swampert then died afterwards, and in the one or two instances where he swept the opponent played rather poorly (like the one with Skarmory who could of kept roosting to stall for confusion hurtage and screens going away but just went on the attack with brave bird, wtf? lol).
I also feel its a little bias to play with your Salamence behind screen as that stops certiant teams ways of dealing with it, and many sweepers can become strong and knock huge holes in teams behind screens, like heatran.
Heatran is still countered hard by bulky Waters, so it's really more about the sweeper behind the screens than it is the screens themselves. Regardless, I see what you mean, but to be perfectly honest, all I did is choose a good team from my inventory that happened to have DDmence. Salamence really wasn't even the main focus of the team (believe it or not, Azelf was), and ended up being MVP in almost every single match.
Still, I covered every instance in which dual screens played a major factor, and soundly refuted them by stating that they only let Salamence do more of what it usually does (destroy anything that tries to stop it), when in reality, the match would have played out differently, but with the same end result: Salamence's ability to KO indiscriminately either decides the match outright, or opens up an opportunity for another Pokemon to do so. He's actually kind of starting to sound like Wobbuffet LOL.
thought it was a common stradigy to bait an Outrage an switch to a steel on it, and these cases, that stradigy would of worked for them.
That's the thing; how do they know I'm going to Outrage? I bet the guy using Gyarados wasn't planning on getting KOed right then and there (or he was praying it wasn't MixMence, but still ended up getting KOed by the variant he wanted it to be, ironically enough) And furthermore, who's to say their token Steel type can withstand two Outrages then KO Salamence? In order to defeat Salamence, you have to not only take what it throws at you, but then you have KO it with an attack. Skarmory and Forretress won't be doing that in this lifetime, sorry.
(like the one with Skarmory who could of kept roosting to stall for confusion hurtage and screens going away but just went on the attack with brave bird, wtf? lol).
Heatran is still countered hard by bulky Waters, so it's really more about the sweeper behind the screens than it is the screens themselves. Regardless, I see what you mean, but to be perfectly honest, all I did is choose a good team from my inventory that happened to have DDmence. Salamence really wasn't even the main focus of the team (believe it or not, Azelf was), and ended up being MVP in almost every single match.
Still, I covered every instance in which dual screens played a major factor, and soundly refuted them by stating that they only let Salamence do more of what it usually does (destroy anything that tries to stop it), when in reality, the match would have played out differently, but with the same end result: Salamence's ability to KO indiscriminately either decides the match outright, or opens up an opportunity for another Pokemon to do so. He's actually kind of starting to sound like Wobbuffet LOL.
That's the thing; how do they know I'm going to Outrage? And furthermore, who's to say their token Steel type can withstand two Outrages then KO Salamence? In order to defeat Salamence, you have to not only take what it throws at you, but then you have to get rid of it.
True, but my problem mostly has to do with the fact that Salamence didn't really get far in most of the matches. While he did end up killing a bulky water/steel, he still fell after that, which other wallbreakers do as well. I use to run a HO team that utilized a Heatran and Infernape to overwhelm the oppenents common fire type counters and I can recall so many instances where my Heatran KO'd an incoming Salamence/Latias with Dragon Pulse, then exploded on their Gyarados/Swampert/Blissy the next turn, netting me 2 kills for the price of 1, and allowing Infernape an extremely easy sweep. The same way with Infernape, who can Close Combat an incoming would be counter, like Vaporeon/Swampert/Suicune, for an easy 2HKO, and living to hit another pokemon. Its a wallbreakers job to break through their counters/checks and Salamence does it very well, just like Infernape and Heatran, and others like Gengar (which, funny enough, I find more problematic to try to safely counter than Salamence), so I don't see how Salamence is proving itself Uber by just accomplishing what other wallbreakers do.
The problem we have with Salamence is that it breaks EVERY wall and EVERY counter with basically one set. If it survives the initial onslaught, then it can go for a sweep with DD. Keep in mind that was a pretty small sample size, and some of the better matches I actually forgot to save (which sucks because I actually faced one of the top 10 today and Mence owned him pretty hard :/).
Keep comparing him to other sweepers/wallbreakers and you'll quickly find the advantages of perfect coverage and a nearly unresisted STAB coming from base 135 att put him on an entirely different level. As a matter of fact, I even demonstrated that in the second log, where we discovered that absolutely nothing was capable of getting through Gyarados, Jolteon, and Swampert besides Salamence. Doesn't it ring an alarm somehow that Salamence is this much harder to get through than the rest of OU and requires extensive methods just to beat?
Okay, a second log spam. I got 7 logs, this time featuring MixMence. Again, I made some more stupid mistakes in the matches, so don't judge me on that. These logs do seem a bit more impressive than the DDMence ones though, but I'm not going to say more than that. I used a different team, this one a more offensive team than the last. Again, take these as raw data and analyse them as you please.
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
WE MISS LATIAS sent out Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
li_qin sent out Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
Azelf used Taunt.
Swampert fell for the taunt!
Swampert used Surf.
Azelf lost 40% of its health.
---
Azelf used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Swampert used Surf.
Azelf lost 34% of its health.
---
li_qin switched in Froslass (lvl 100 Froslass ?).
Pointed stones dug into Froslass.
Froslass lost 25% of its health.
Azelf used U-turn.
Azelf's attack missed!
---
Keppler has entered the room.
li_qin switched in Abomasnow (lvl 100 Abomasnow ?).
Abomasnow's Snow Warning whipped up a hailstorm!
Hail began to fall!
Pointed stones dug into Abomasnow.
Abomasnow lost 25% of its health.
Azelf used Taunt.
Abomasnow fell for the taunt!
The hail continues to fall.
Azelf is pelted by hail!
Azelf lost 6% of its health.
Abomasnow's leftovers restored its health a little!
Abomasnow restored 6% of its health.
---
li_qin switched in Tentacruel (lvl 100 Tentacruel ?).
Pointed stones dug into Tentacruel.
Tentacruel lost 12% of its health.
Azelf used U-turn.
It's not very effective...
Tentacruel lost 13% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
The hail continues to fall.
Salamence is pelted by hail!
Salamence lost 6% of its health.
Tentacruel is pelted by hail!
Tentacruel lost 6% of its health.
Tentacruel's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Tentacruel restored 6% of its health.
---
li_qin switched in Abomasnow (lvl 100 Abomasnow ?).
Abomasnow's Snow Warning whipped up a hailstorm!
Pointed stones dug into Abomasnow.
Abomasnow lost 25% of its health.
Salamence used Earthquake.
It's not very effective...
Abomasnow lost 22% of its health.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
Salamence is pelted by hail!
Salamence lost 6% of its health.
Abomasnow's leftovers restored its health a little!
Abomasnow restored 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
Abomasnow used Blizzard.
Azelf lost 19% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Azelf fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
Abomasnow's leftovers restored its health a little!
Abomasnow restored 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Salamence's Intimidate cut Abomasnow's attack!
Salamence used Fire Blast.
Salamence's attack missed!
Abomasnow used Blizzard.
It's super effective!
Salamence lost 78% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Salamence fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
Abomasnow's leftovers restored its health a little!
Abomasnow restored 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
li_qin switched in Tentacruel (lvl 100 Tentacruel ?).
Pointed stones dug into Tentacruel.
Tentacruel lost 12% of its health.
Metagross used Meteor Mash.
It's not very effective...
Tentacruel lost 46% of its health.
Metagross lost 10% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
Tentacruel is pelted by hail!
Tentacruel lost 6% of its health.
Metagross is pelted by hail!
Metagross lost 6% of its health.
Tentacruel's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Tentacruel restored 6% of its health.
---
Tentacruel used Rapid Spin.
Tentacruel blew away the pointed stones!
It's not very effective...
Metagross lost 2% of its health.
Metagross used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Tentacruel lost 16% of its health.
li_qin's Tentacruel fainted.
Metagross lost 10% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
Metagross is pelted by hail!
Metagross lost 6% of its health.
---
li_qin switched in Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
Metagross used Explosion.
Swampert lost 100% of its health.
li_qin's Swampert fainted.
WE MISS LATIAS's Metagross fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Tyranitar (lvl 100 Tyranitar ?).
li_qin switched in Froslass (lvl 100 Froslass ?).
Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
The hail stopped.
A sandstorm brewed!
Froslass used Blizzard.
Tyranitar lost 23% of its health.
Tyranitar used Crunch.
It's super effective!
Froslass lost 75% of its health.
li_qin's Froslass fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
---
li_qin switched in Mamoswine (lvl 100 Mamoswine ?).
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Gliscor (lvl 100 Gliscor ?).
Mamoswine used Earthquake.
It doesn't affect Gliscor...
The sandstorm rages.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
li_qin switched in Abomasnow (lvl 100 Abomasnow ?).
Abomasnow's Snow Warning whipped up a hailstorm!
The sandstorm stopped.
Hail began to fall!
The hail continues to fall.
Jolteon is pelted by hail!
Jolteon lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
Abomasnow's leftovers restored its health a little!
Abomasnow restored 6% of its health.
---
li_qin switched in Mamoswine (lvl 100 Mamoswine ?).
Jolteon used Substitute.
Jolteon lost 25% of its health.
Jolteon made a substitute!
The hail continues to fall.
Jolteon is pelted by hail!
Jolteon lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
---
Jolteon used Baton Pass.
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Gliscor (lvl 100 Gliscor ?).
Mamoswine used Blizzard.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Gliscor!
Gliscor's substitute faded!
The hail continues to fall.
Gliscor is pelted by hail!
Gliscor lost 6% of its health.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
---
Gliscor used Earthquake.
Mamoswine lost 34% of its health.
Mamoswine used Blizzard.
It's super effective!
Gliscor lost 100% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Gliscor fainted.
Mamoswine lost 10% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Tyranitar (lvl 100 Tyranitar ?).
Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
The hail stopped.
A sandstorm brewed!
Mamoswine used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Tyranitar lost 77% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Tyranitar fainted.
Mamoswine lost 10% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
Jolteon used Substitute.
Jolteon lost 25% of its health.
Jolteon made a substitute!
Mamoswine used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Jolteon!
Jolteon's substitute faded!
The sandstorm rages.
Jolteon is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Jolteon lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS: gg
Jolteon used Substitute.
Jolteon lost 25% of its health.
Jolteon made a substitute!
Mamoswine used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Jolteon!
Jolteon's substitute faded!
The sandstorm rages.
Jolteon is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Jolteon lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
---
Jolteon used Wish.
Jolteon made a wish!
Mamoswine used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Jolteon lost 25% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Jolteon fainted.
li_qin wins!
li_qin: heh
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
The Competition sent out Tyranitar (lvl 100 Tyranitar ?).
WE MISS LATIAS sent out Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
A sandstorm brewed!
The Competition: mence next
Azelf used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Tyranitar used Crunch.
It's super effective!
Azelf lost 88% of its health.
The Colbur Berry weakened Crunch's power!
The sandstorm rages.
Azelf is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Azelf lost 6% of its health.
---
Azelf used U-turn.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Tyranitar lost 80% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Gliscor (lvl 100 Gliscor ?).
Tyranitar used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
The sandstorm rages.
---
WE MISS LATIAS: sorry
Gliscor used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Tyranitar lost 20% of its health.
The Competition's Tyranitar fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
---
The Competition switched in Suicune (lvl 100 Suicune).
Suicune is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Suicune.
Suicune lost 12% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
Pointed stones dug into Azelf.
Azelf lost 5% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Azelf fainted.
Suicune used Calm Mind.
Suicune's special attack was raised.
Suicune's special defence was raised.
The sandstorm rages.
Suicune is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Suicune lost 6% of its health.
Suicune's leftovers restored its health a little!
Suicune restored 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
Pointed stones dug into Jolteon.
Jolteon lost 12% of its health.
The Competition switched in Rotom-f (lvl 100 Rotom-f).
Pointed stones dug into Rotom-f.
Rotom-f lost 12% of its health.
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
It's not very effective...
Rotom-f lost 17% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Jolteon is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Jolteon lost 6% of its health.
Rotom-f is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Rotom-f lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
Rotom-f's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rotom-f restored 6% of its health.
---
Jolteon used Substitute.
Jolteon lost 25% of its health.
Jolteon made a substitute!
Rotom-f used Will-o-wisp.
But it failed!
The sandstorm rages.
Jolteon is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Jolteon lost 6% of its health.
Rotom-f is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Rotom-f lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
Rotom-f's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rotom-f restored 6% of its health.
---
Jolteon used Baton Pass.
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Salamence's Intimidate cut Rotom-f's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Salamence.
Salamence lost 25% of its health.
Rotom-f used Substitute.
Rotom-f lost 25% of its health.
Rotom-f made a substitute!
The sandstorm rages.
Salamence is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Salamence lost 6% of its health.
Rotom-f is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Rotom-f lost 6% of its health.
Rotom-f's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rotom-f restored 6% of its health.
---
Salamence used Draco Meteor.
Salamence's attack missed!
Rotom-f used Thunderbolt.
The substitute took damage for Salamence!
Salamence's substitute faded!
The sandstorm rages.
Salamence is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Salamence lost 6% of its health.
Rotom-f is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Rotom-f lost 6% of its health.
Rotom-f's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rotom-f restored 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS: lol
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
Pointed stones dug into Jolteon.
Jolteon lost 12% of its health.
Rotom-f used Thunderbolt.
Jolteon's Volt Absorb absorbed damage!
Jolteon restored 25% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Jolteon is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Jolteon lost 6% of its health.
Rotom-f is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Rotom-f lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
Rotom-f's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rotom-f restored 6% of its health.
---
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
It's not very effective...
The substitute took damage for Rotom-f!
Rotom-f used Will-o-wisp.
Jolteon was burned!
The sandstorm rages.
Jolteon is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Jolteon lost 6% of its health.
Rotom-f is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Rotom-f lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
Jolteon was hurt by its burn!
Jolteon lost 12% of its health.
Rotom-f's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rotom-f restored 6% of its health.
---
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
It's not very effective...
The substitute took damage for Rotom-f!
Rotom-f's substitute faded!
Rotom-f used Substitute.
Rotom-f lost 25% of its health.
Rotom-f made a substitute!
The sandstorm rages.
Jolteon is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Jolteon lost 6% of its health.
Rotom-f is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Rotom-f lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
Jolteon was hurt by its burn!
Jolteon lost 12% of its health.
Rotom-f's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rotom-f restored 6% of its health.
---
Jolteon used Wish.
Jolteon made a wish!
Rotom-f used Pain Split.
Rotom-f restored 18% of its health.
Jolteon lost 16% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Jolteon is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Jolteon lost 6% of its health.
Rotom-f is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Rotom-f lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
Jolteon was hurt by its burn!
Jolteon lost 12% of its health.
Rotom-f's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rotom-f restored 6% of its health.
---
The Competition switched in Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
Pointed stones dug into Metagross.
Metagross lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
Metagross lost 43% of its health.
The wish came true!
Jolteon restored 50% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Jolteon is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Jolteon lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
Jolteon was hurt by its burn!
Jolteon lost 12% of its health.
---
Jolteon used Baton Pass.
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Gliscor (lvl 100 Gliscor ?).
Pointed stones dug into Gliscor.
Gliscor lost 12% of its health.
Metagross used Rock Polish.
Metagross's speed was sharply raised.
The sandstorm rages.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
---
Metagross used Meteor Mash.
Metagross's attack missed!
Gliscor used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Metagross lost 51% of its health.
The Competition's Metagross fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
---
The Competition switched in Kingdra (lvl 100 Kingdra ?).
Pointed stones dug into Kingdra.
Kingdra lost 12% of its health.
Gliscor used Taunt.
Kingdra fell for the taunt!
Kingdra used Draco Meteor.
Kingdra's attack missed!
The sandstorm rages.
Kingdra is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Kingdra lost 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
Pointed stones dug into Metagross.
Metagross lost 6% of its health.
Kingdra used Draco Meteor.
It's not very effective...
A critical hit!
Metagross lost 94% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Metagross fainted.
Kingdra's special attack was harshly lowered.
The sandstorm rages.
Kingdra is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Kingdra lost 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Salamence's Intimidate cut Kingdra's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Salamence.
Salamence lost 25% of its health.
The Competition switched in Rotom-f (lvl 100 Rotom-f).
Pointed stones dug into Rotom-f.
Rotom-f lost 12% of its health.
Salamence used Draco Meteor.
Rotom-f lost 26% of its health.
The Competition's Rotom-f fainted.
Salamence's special attack was harshly lowered.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Salamence is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Salamence lost 6% of its health.
---
The Competition switched in Staraptor (lvl 100 Staraptor ?).
Staraptor's Intimidate cut Salamence's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Staraptor.
Staraptor lost 25% of its health.
Salamence used Outrage.
Salamence went on a rampage!
Staraptor lost 66% of its health.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
Staraptor used Return.
Salamence lost 12% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Salamence fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
Staraptor is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Staraptor lost 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
Pointed stones dug into Jolteon.
Jolteon lost 12% of its health.
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
It's super effective!
Staraptor lost 3% of its health.
The Competition's Staraptor fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
Jolteon is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Jolteon lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
Jolteon was hurt by its burn!
Jolteon lost 12% of its health.
---
The Competition switched in Kingdra (lvl 100 Kingdra ?).
Pointed stones dug into Kingdra.
Kingdra lost 12% of its health.
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
Kingdra lost 39% of its health.
Kingdra used Dragon Pulse.
Jolteon lost 36% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Jolteon fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
Kingdra is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Kingdra lost 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Gliscor (lvl 100 Gliscor ?).
Pointed stones dug into Gliscor.
Gliscor lost 12% of its health.
Gliscor used Earthquake.
Kingdra lost 17% of its health.
The Competition's Kingdra fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
---
The Competition switched in Suicune (lvl 100 Suicune).
Suicune is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Suicune.
Suicune lost 12% of its health.
Gliscor used Taunt.
Suicune fell for the taunt!
Suicune used Calm Mind.
Suicune can't use Calm Mind after the taunt!
The sandstorm rages.
Suicune is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Suicune lost 6% of its health.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
Suicune's leftovers restored its health a little!
Suicune restored 6% of its health.
---
Gliscor used Toxic.
Suicune was badly poisoned!
Suicune used Surf.
It's super effective!
Gliscor lost 76% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Suicune is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Suicune lost 6% of its health.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
Suicune's leftovers restored its health a little!
Suicune restored 6% of its health.
Suicune is hurt by poison!
Suicune lost 6% of its health.
---
Gliscor used Roost.
Gliscor restored 50% of its health.
Suicune used Surf.
It's super effective!
Gliscor lost 75% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Suicune is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Suicune lost 6% of its health.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
Suicune's leftovers restored its health a little!
Suicune restored 6% of its health.
Suicune is hurt by poison!
Suicune lost 12% of its health.
---
Gliscor used Earthquake.
Suicune lost 20% of its health.
Suicune used Surf.
It's super effective!
Gliscor lost 12% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Gliscor fainted.
Suicune's taunt wore off!
The sandstorm rages.
Suicune is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Suicune lost 6% of its health.
Suicune's leftovers restored its health a little!
Suicune restored 6% of its health.
Suicune is hurt by poison!
Suicune lost 19% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Tyranitar (lvl 100 Tyranitar ?).
Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
Pointed stones dug into Tyranitar.
Tyranitar lost 12% of its health.
Tyranitar used Crunch.
Suicune lost 18% of its health.
The Competition's Suicune fainted.
WE MISS LATIAS wins!
The Competition has left the room.
WE MISS LATIAS: gg
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
bronzilla sent out Abomasnow (lvl 100 Abomasnow ?).
WE MISS LATIAS sent out Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
Abomasnow's Snow Warning whipped up a hailstorm!
Hail began to fall!
bronzilla switched in Dusknoir (lvl 100 Dusknoir ?).
Dusknoir is exerting its pressure!
Azelf used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
The hail continues to fall.
Azelf is pelted by hail!
Azelf lost 6% of its health.
Dusknoir is pelted by hail!
Dusknoir lost 6% of its health.
Dusknoir's leftovers restored its health a little!
Dusknoir restored 6% of its health.
---
Azelf used U-turn.
It's not very effective...
Dusknoir lost 10% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
Dusknoir used Substitute.
Dusknoir lost 25% of its health.
Dusknoir made a substitute!
The hail continues to fall.
Jolteon is pelted by hail!
Jolteon lost 6% of its health.
Dusknoir is pelted by hail!
Dusknoir lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
Dusknoir's leftovers restored its health a little!
Dusknoir restored 6% of its health.
---
Dusknoir is tightening its focus!
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
The substitute took damage for Dusknoir!
Dusknoir's substitute faded!
Dusknoir used Focus Punch.
Jolteon lost 74% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
Jolteon is pelted by hail!
Jolteon lost 6% of its health.
Dusknoir is pelted by hail!
Dusknoir lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
Dusknoir's leftovers restored its health a little!
Dusknoir restored 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
Dusknoir used Shadow Sneak.
It's super effective!
Azelf lost 60% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
Azelf is pelted by hail!
Azelf lost 6% of its health.
Dusknoir is pelted by hail!
Dusknoir lost 6% of its health.
Dusknoir's leftovers restored its health a little!
Dusknoir restored 6% of its health.
---
Dusknoir used Shadow Sneak.
It's super effective!
Azelf lost 28% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Azelf fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
Dusknoir is pelted by hail!
Dusknoir lost 6% of its health.
Dusknoir's leftovers restored its health a little!
Dusknoir restored 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Salamence's Intimidate cut Dusknoir's attack!
bronzilla switched in Skarmory (lvl 100 Skarmory ?).
Pointed stones dug into Skarmory.
Skarmory lost 12% of its health.
Salamence used Draco Meteor.
It's not very effective...
Skarmory lost 56% of its health.
Salamence's special attack was harshly lowered.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
Salamence is pelted by hail!
Salamence lost 6% of its health.
Skarmory is pelted by hail!
Skarmory lost 6% of its health.
---
bronzilla switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Pointed stones dug into Blissey.
Blissey lost 12% of its health.
Salamence used Flamethrower.
Blissey lost 7% of its health.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
Salamence is pelted by hail!
Salamence lost 6% of its health.
Blissey is pelted by hail!
Blissey lost 6% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Gliscor (lvl 100 Gliscor ?).
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
It doesn't affect Gliscor...
The hail continues to fall.
Gliscor is pelted by hail!
Gliscor lost 6% of its health.
Blissey is pelted by hail!
Blissey lost 6% of its health.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
Gliscor used Taunt.
Blissey fell for the taunt!
Blissey used Blizzard.
It's super effective!
Gliscor lost 100% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Gliscor fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
Blissey is pelted by hail!
Blissey lost 6% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
bronzilla switched in Skarmory (lvl 100 Skarmory ?).
Pointed stones dug into Skarmory.
Skarmory lost 12% of its health.
Metagross used Agility.
Metagross's speed was sharply raised.
The hail continues to fall.
Metagross is pelted by hail!
Metagross lost 6% of its health.
Skarmory is pelted by hail!
Skarmory lost 6% of its health.
---
Metagross used Meteor Mash.
It's not very effective...
Skarmory lost 7% of its health.
bronzilla's Skarmory fainted.
Metagross lost 10% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
Metagross is pelted by hail!
Metagross lost 6% of its health.
---
bronzilla switched in Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
Pointed stones dug into Swampert.
Swampert lost 6% of its health.
Metagross used Explosion.
Swampert lost 94% of its health.
bronzilla's Swampert fainted.
WE MISS LATIAS's Metagross fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
---
bronzilla switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Salamence's Intimidate cut Blissey's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Blissey.
Blissey lost 12% of its health.
bronzilla switched in Dusknoir (lvl 100 Dusknoir ?).
Dusknoir is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Dusknoir.
Dusknoir lost 12% of its health.
Salamence used Outrage.
Salamence went on a rampage!
Dusknoir lost 53% of its health.
bronzilla's Dusknoir fainted.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
Salamence is pelted by hail!
Salamence lost 6% of its health.
---
bronzilla switched in Tentacruel (lvl 100 Tentacruel ?).
Pointed stones dug into Tentacruel.
Tentacruel lost 12% of its health.
Salamence used Outrage.
Tentacruel lost 88% of its health.
bronzilla's Tentacruel fainted.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
Salamence's rampage ended.
Salamence became confused!
The hail continues to fall.
Salamence is pelted by hail!
Salamence lost 6% of its health.
---
bronzilla switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Pointed stones dug into Blissey.
Blissey lost 12% of its health.
Salamence is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
Salamence lost 16% of its health.
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
Salamence is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
The hail continues to fall.
Blissey is pelted by hail!
Blissey lost 6% of its health.
Salamence is pelted by hail!
Salamence lost 6% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
Blissey used Softboiled.
Blissey restored 45% of its health.
Salamence snapped out of confusion!
Salamence used Outrage.
Salamence went on a rampage!
Blissey lost 63% of its health.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
Blissey is pelted by hail!
Blissey lost 6% of its health.
Salamence is pelted by hail!
Salamence lost 4% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Salamence fainted.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Tyranitar (lvl 100 Tyranitar ?).
Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
The hail stopped.
A sandstorm brewed!
Tyranitar used Crunch.
Blissey lost 37% of its health.
bronzilla's Blissey fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
---
bronzilla switched in Abomasnow (lvl 100 Abomasnow ?).
Abomasnow's Snow Warning whipped up a hailstorm!
The sandstorm stopped.
Hail began to fall!
Pointed stones dug into Abomasnow.
Abomasnow lost 25% of its health.
Tyranitar used Fire Punch.
It's super effective!
Abomasnow lost 75% of its health.
bronzilla's Abomasnow fainted.
WE MISS LATIAS wins!
bronzilla: gg
WE MISS LATIAS: gg
bronzilla has left the room.
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
bleu soul sent out Skarmory (lvl 100 Skarmory ?).
WE MISS LATIAS sent out Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
bleu soul switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
Azelf used Taunt.
Jirachi fell for the taunt!
---
Azelf used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Jirachi used Iron Head.
Azelf lost 52% of its health.
---
Azelf used U-turn.
Jirachi lost 19% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Gliscor (lvl 100 Gliscor ?).
Jirachi used Iron Head.
Gliscor lost 23% of its health.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
bleu soul switched in Tangrowth (lvl 100 Tangrowth ?).
Pointed stones dug into Tangrowth.
Tangrowth lost 12% of its health.
Gliscor used Earthquake.
It's not very effective...
Tangrowth lost 8% of its health.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
Tangrowth's leftovers restored its health a little!
Tangrowth restored 6% of its health.
---
Gliscor used Taunt.
Tangrowth fell for the taunt!
Tangrowth used Stun Spore.
Tangrowth can't use Stun Spore after the taunt!
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
Tangrowth's leftovers restored its health a little!
Tangrowth restored 6% of its health.
---
Gliscor used Toxic.
Tangrowth was badly poisoned!
Tangrowth used Power Whip.
Gliscor lost 29% of its health.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
Tangrowth's leftovers restored its health a little!
Tangrowth restored 6% of its health.
Tangrowth is hurt by poison!
Tangrowth lost 6% of its health.
---
bleu soul switched in Skarmory (lvl 100 Skarmory ?).
Pointed stones dug into Skarmory.
Skarmory lost 12% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Salamence's Intimidate cut Skarmory's attack!
Skarmory's leftovers restored its health a little!
Skarmory restored 6% of its health.
---
Salamence used Flamethrower.
It's super effective!
Skarmory lost 66% of its health.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
Skarmory used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Skarmory's leftovers restored its health a little!
Skarmory restored 6% of its health.
---
bleu soul switched in Cresselia (lvl 100 Cresselia ?).
Pointed stones dug into Cresselia.
Cresselia lost 12% of its health.
Salamence used Flamethrower.
Cresselia lost 24% of its health.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
---
Salamence used Draco Meteor.
Cresselia lost 45% of its health.
Salamence's special attack was harshly lowered.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
Cresselia used Reflect.
A barrier was formed!
---
bleu soul switched in Suicune (lvl 100 Suicune).
Suicune is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Suicune.
Suicune lost 12% of its health.
Salamence used Outrage.
Salamence went on a rampage!
Suicune lost 33% of its health.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
Suicune's leftovers restored its health a little!
Suicune restored 6% of its health.
---
Salamence used Outrage.
Suicune lost 31% of its health.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
Suicune used Ice Beam.
It's super effective!
Salamence lost 50% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Salamence fainted.
Suicune's leftovers restored its health a little!
Suicune restored 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
Pointed stones dug into Jolteon.
Jolteon lost 12% of its health.
bleu soul switched in Tangrowth (lvl 100 Tangrowth ?).
Pointed stones dug into Tangrowth.
Tangrowth lost 12% of its health.
Jolteon used Substitute.
Jolteon lost 25% of its health.
Jolteon made a substitute!
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
Tangrowth's leftovers restored its health a little!
Tangrowth restored 6% of its health.
Tangrowth is hurt by poison!
Tangrowth lost 6% of its health.
---
Jolteon used Baton Pass.
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
Pointed stones dug into Metagross.
Metagross lost 6% of its health.
Tangrowth used Power Whip.
It's not very effective...
The substitute took damage for Metagross!
Tangrowth's leftovers restored its health a little!
Tangrowth restored 6% of its health.
Tangrowth is hurt by poison!
Tangrowth lost 12% of its health.
---
bleu soul switched in Skarmory (lvl 100 Skarmory ?).
Pointed stones dug into Skarmory.
Skarmory lost 12% of its health.
Metagross used Meteor Mash.
It's not very effective...
Skarmory lost 15% of its health.
Metagross lost 10% of its health.
Skarmory's leftovers restored its health a little!
Skarmory restored 6% of its health.
---
Metagross used Meteor Mash.
It's not very effective...
Skarmory lost 12% of its health.
bleu soul's Skarmory fainted.
Metagross lost 10% of its health.
---
bleu soul switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
Pointed stones dug into Gyarados.
Gyarados lost 25% of its health.
Gyarados used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Metagross!
Metagross's substitute faded!
Metagross used Meteor Mash.
It's not very effective...
Gyarados lost 20% of its health.
Metagross lost 10% of its health.
Gyarados's reflect wore off!
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
Pointed stones dug into Azelf.
Azelf lost 12% of its health.
Azelf makes ground moves miss with Levitate!
Gyarados used Earthquake.
Gyarados's attack missed!
---
bleu soul switched in Tangrowth (lvl 100 Tangrowth ?).
Pointed stones dug into Tangrowth.
Tangrowth lost 12% of its health.
Azelf used Explosion.
Tangrowth lost 61% of its health.
bleu soul's Tangrowth fainted.
WE MISS LATIAS's Azelf fainted.
---
bleu soul switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
Pointed stones dug into Jolteon.
Jolteon lost 12% of its health.
Pointed stones dug into Jirachi.
Jirachi lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon used Substitute.
Jolteon lost 25% of its health.
Jolteon made a substitute!
Jirachi used Substitute.
Jirachi lost 25% of its health.
Jirachi made a substitute!
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
Jolteon used Baton Pass.
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Gliscor (lvl 100 Gliscor ?).
Pointed stones dug into Gliscor.
Gliscor lost 12% of its health.
Jirachi used Iron Head.
The substitute took damage for Gliscor!
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
Gliscor used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Jirachi!
Jirachi's substitute faded!
Jirachi used Iron Head.
The substitute took damage for Gliscor!
Gliscor's substitute faded!
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
bleu soul switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
Gyarados's Intimidate cut Gliscor's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Gyarados.
Gyarados lost 25% of its health.
Gliscor used Toxic.
Gyarados was badly poisoned!
Gyarados's Lum Berry cured its Poison!
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
---
Gliscor used Taunt.
Gyarados fell for the taunt!
Gyarados used Waterfall.
It's super effective!
Gliscor lost 62% of its health.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
---
Gliscor used Toxic.
Gyarados was badly poisoned!
Gyarados used Waterfall.
It's super effective!
Gliscor lost 24% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Gliscor fainted.
Gyarados is hurt by poison!
Gyarados lost 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
Pointed stones dug into Jolteon.
Jolteon lost 12% of its health.
bleu soul switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
Pointed stones dug into Jirachi.
Jirachi lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
Jirachi lost 32% of its health.
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
Jirachi lost 30% of its health.
Jirachi used Wish.
Jirachi made a wish!
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
bleu soul switched in Cresselia (lvl 100 Cresselia ?).
Pointed stones dug into Cresselia.
Cresselia lost 12% of its health.
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
Cresselia lost 6% of its health.
bleu soul's Cresselia fainted.
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
---
bleu soul switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
Pointed stones dug into Jirachi.
Jirachi lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
Jirachi lost 13% of its health.
bleu soul's Jirachi fainted.
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
---
bleu soul switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
Gyarados's Intimidate cut Jolteon's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Gyarados.
Gyarados lost 24% of its health.
bleu soul's Gyarados fainted.
bleu soul switched in Suicune (lvl 100 Suicune).
Suicune is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Suicune.
Suicune lost 12% of its health.
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
It's super effective!
Suicune lost 23% of its health.
bleu soul's Suicune fainted.
WE MISS LATIAS wins!
WE MISS LATIAS: gg
bleu soul: Gg.
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
WE MISS LATIAS sent out Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
forney2414 sent out Infernape (lvl 100 Infernape ?).
Azelf used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Infernape used Overheat.
Azelf lost 66% of its health.
Infernape's special attack was harshly lowered.
---
Azelf used U-turn.
It's not very effective...
Infernape lost 9% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Salamence's Intimidate cut Infernape's attack!
Infernape used Overheat.
It's not very effective...
Salamence lost 19% of its health.
Infernape's special attack was harshly lowered.
---
Infernape used Taunt.
Salamence fell for the taunt!
Salamence used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Infernape lost 91% of its health.
forney2414's Infernape fainted.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
---
forney2414 switched in Skarmory (lvl 100 Skarmory ?).
Pointed stones dug into Skarmory.
Skarmory lost 12% of its health.
Salamence used Flamethrower.
It's super effective!
Skarmory lost 88% of its health.
forney2414's Skarmory fainted.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
---
forney2414 switched in Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
Pointed stones dug into Swampert.
Swampert lost 6% of its health.
Salamence used Draco Meteor.
Swampert lost 74% of its health.
Salamence's special attack was harshly lowered.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
Swampert used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Salamence's taunt wore off!
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
---
Salamence used Draco Meteor.
Swampert lost 26% of its health.
forney2414's Swampert fainted.
Salamence's special attack was harshly lowered.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
---
forney2414 switched in Rotom-f (lvl 100 Rotom-f).
Pointed stones dug into Rotom-f.
Rotom-f lost 12% of its health.
Salamence used Outrage.
Salamence went on a rampage!
Rotom-f lost 57% of its health.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
Rotom-f used Blizzard.
It's super effective!
Salamence lost 31% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Salamence fainted.
Rotom-f's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rotom-f restored 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Tyranitar (lvl 100 Tyranitar ?).
Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
A sandstorm brewed!
Pointed stones dug into Tyranitar.
Tyranitar lost 12% of its health.
Tyranitar used Crunch.
It's super effective!
Rotom-f lost 37% of its health.
forney2414's Rotom-f fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
---
forney2414 switched in Empoleon (lvl 100 Empoleon ?).
Pointed stones dug into Empoleon.
Empoleon lost 6% of its health.
Tyranitar used Fire Punch.
Empoleon lost 32% of its health.
Empoleon used Agility.
Empoleon's speed was sharply raised.
The sandstorm rages.
Empoleon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Empoleon restored 6% of its health.
---
Empoleon used Waterfall.
It's super effective!
Tyranitar lost 43% of its health.
Tyranitar flinched!
The sandstorm rages.
Empoleon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Empoleon restored 6% of its health.
---
Empoleon used Waterfall.
It's super effective!
Tyranitar lost 38% of its health.
Tyranitar used Dragon Dance.
Tyranitar's attack was raised.
Tyranitar's speed was raised.
The sandstorm rages.
Empoleon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Empoleon restored 6% of its health.
---
Empoleon used Waterfall.
It's super effective!
Tyranitar lost 7% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Tyranitar fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
Empoleon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Empoleon restored 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
Pointed stones dug into Metagross.
Metagross lost 6% of its health.
Empoleon used Waterfall.
Metagross lost 18% of its health.
Metagross used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Empoleon lost 87% of its health.
forney2414's Empoleon fainted.
Metagross lost 10% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
---
forney2414 has left the room.
WE MISS LATIAS wins!
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
lord (BAN ME PLEASE) sent out GARYOAK (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
WE MISS LATIAS sent out Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
Azelf used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
GARYOAK used Payback.
It's super effective!
Azelf lost 52% of its health.
The Colbur Berry weakened Payback's power!
---
lord (BAN ME PLEASE): damn anti machamp azelf
lord (BAN ME PLEASE) switched in Auschwitz (lvl 100 Rotom-h).
Pointed stones dug into Auschwitz.
Auschwitz lost 12% of its health.
Azelf used U-turn.
It's not very effective...
Auschwitz lost 12% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Salamence's Intimidate cut Auschwitz's attack!
Auschwitz's leftovers restored its health a little!
Auschwitz restored 6% of its health.
---
lord (BAN ME PLEASE) switched in shitpoop (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Pointed stones dug into shitpoop.
shitpoop lost 12% of its health.
Salamence used Draco Meteor.
It's not very effective...
shitpoop lost 44% of its health.
Salamence's special attack was harshly lowered.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
shitpoop's leftovers restored its health a little!
shitpoop restored 6% of its health.
---
lord (BAN ME PLEASE) switched in Auschwitz (lvl 100 Rotom-h).
Pointed stones dug into Auschwitz.
Auschwitz lost 12% of its health.
Auschwitz makes ground moves miss with Levitate!
Salamence used Earthquake.
Salamence's attack missed!
Auschwitz's leftovers restored its health a little!
Auschwitz restored 6% of its health.
---
Salamence used Outrage.
Salamence went on a rampage!
Auschwitz lost 75% of its health.
lord (BAN ME PLEASE)'s Auschwitz fainted.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
---
lord (BAN ME PLEASE): bah
lord (BAN ME PLEASE) switched in Mushu (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Mushu's Intimidate cut Salamence's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Mushu.
Mushu lost 25% of its health.
lord (BAN ME PLEASE) switched in Uguuuuuuuu (lvl 100 Jirachi).
Pointed stones dug into Uguuuuuuuu.
Uguuuuuuuu lost 6% of its health.
Salamence used Outrage.
It's not very effective...
Uguuuuuuuu lost 22% of its health.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
---
Uguuuuuuuu used Ice Punch.
It's super effective!
Salamence lost 70% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Salamence fainted.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
lord (BAN ME PLEASE) switched in GARYOAK (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Pointed stones dug into GARYOAK.
GARYOAK lost 6% of its health.
Metagross used Meteor Mash.
GARYOAK lost 87% of its health.
Metagross lost 10% of its health.
---
lord (BAN ME PLEASE): ouch
Metagross used Earthquake.
GARYOAK lost 7% of its health.
lord (BAN ME PLEASE)'s GARYOAK fainted.
Metagross lost 10% of its health.
---
lord (BAN ME PLEASE) switched in shitpoop (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Pointed stones dug into shitpoop.
shitpoop lost 12% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
shitpoop used Substitute.
shitpoop lost 25% of its health.
shitpoop made a substitute!
shitpoop's leftovers restored its health a little!
shitpoop restored 6% of its health.
---
Azelf used Explosion.
It's not very effective...
The substitute took damage for shitpoop!
shitpoop's substitute faded!
WE MISS LATIAS's Azelf fainted.
shitpoop used Lava Plume.
But there was no target!
shitpoop's leftovers restored its health a little!
shitpoop restored 6% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Gliscor (lvl 100 Gliscor ?).
lord (BAN ME PLEASE) switched in Mushu (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Mushu's Intimidate cut Gliscor's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Mushu.
Mushu lost 25% of its health.
Gliscor used Earthquake.
It doesn't affect Mushu...
---
Gliscor used Roost.
But it failed!
Mushu used Roost.
Mushu restored 50% of its health.
---
Gliscor used Toxic.
Mushu was badly poisoned!
Mushu used Flamethrower.
Gliscor lost 52% of its health.
Mushu lost 10% of its health.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
Mushu is hurt by poison!
Mushu lost 6% of its health.
---
Gliscor used Roost.
Gliscor restored 46% of its health.
Mushu used Flamethrower.
Gliscor lost 51% of its health.
Mushu lost 10% of its health.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
Mushu is hurt by poison!
Mushu lost 12% of its health.
---
Gliscor used Roost.
Gliscor restored 45% of its health.
Mushu used Draco Meteor.
Gliscor lost 100% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Gliscor fainted.
Mushu's special attack was harshly lowered.
Mushu lost 10% of its health.
Mushu is hurt by poison!
Mushu lost 18% of its health.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
Mushu lost 34% of its health.
lord (BAN ME PLEASE)'s Mushu fainted.
---
lord (BAN ME PLEASE) switched in Cpt Falcon (lvl 100 Breloom ?).
Pointed stones dug into Cpt Falcon.
Cpt Falcon lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon used Substitute.
Jolteon lost 25% of its health.
Jolteon made a substitute!
Cpt Falcon used Spore.
But it failed!
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
Cpt Falcon was badly poisoned!
---
Jolteon used Baton Pass.
lord (BAN ME PLEASE): herp
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
Cpt Falcon used Seed Bomb.
It's not very effective...
The substitute took damage for Metagross!
Cpt Falcon's Poison Heal restored health!
Cpt Falcon restored 6% of its health.
---
Cpt Falcon used Mach Punch.
The substitute took damage for Metagross!
Metagross's substitute faded!
Metagross used Meteor Mash.
Cpt Falcon lost 100% of its health.
lord (BAN ME PLEASE)'s Cpt Falcon fainted.
Metagross lost 10% of its health.
---
lord (BAN ME PLEASE) switched in shitpoop (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Pointed stones dug into shitpoop.
shitpoop lost 12% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
shitpoop used Earth Power.
It's super effective!
Jolteon lost 68% of its health.
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
shitpoop's leftovers restored its health a little!
shitpoop restored 6% of its health.
---
lord (BAN ME PLEASE) switched in Uguuuuuuuu (lvl 100 Jirachi).
Pointed stones dug into Uguuuuuuuu.
Uguuuuuuuu lost 6% of its health.
Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
Uguuuuuuuu lost 31% of its health.
Uguuuuuuuu is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
---
lord (BAN ME PLEASE): bah
WE MISS LATIAS: sorry
lord (BAN ME PLEASE): thats game
lord (BAN ME PLEASE): gg
lord (BAN ME PLEASE) has left the room.
WE MISS LATIAS wins!
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
dudecrap sent out Infernape (lvl 100 Infernape ?).
WE MISS LATIAS sent out Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
Infernape used Fake Out.
Azelf lost 16% of its health.
Azelf flinched!
---
Azelf used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Infernape used Fire Blast.
Azelf lost 67% of its health.
---
Azelf used U-turn.
It's not very effective...
Infernape lost 8% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Salamence's Intimidate cut Infernape's attack!
Infernape used Close Combat.
It's not very effective...
Salamence lost 17% of its health.
Infernape's defence was lowered.
Infernape's special defence was lowered.
---
dudecrap switched in Flygon (lvl 100 Flygon ?).
Pointed stones dug into Flygon.
Flygon lost 6% of its health.
Flygon makes ground moves miss with Levitate!
Salamence used Earthquake.
Salamence's attack missed!
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
Flygon used Outrage.
Flygon went on a rampage!
Azelf lost 17% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Azelf fainted.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
Flygon used Outrage.
It's not very effective...
Metagross lost 21% of its health.
Metagross used Agility.
Metagross's speed was sharply raised.
---
Flygon used Outrage.
It's not very effective...
Metagross lost 21% of its health.
Metagross used Meteor Mash.
Flygon lost 94% of its health.
dudecrap's Flygon fainted.
Metagross lost 10% of its health.
---
dudecrap switched in Starmie (lvl 100 Starmie).
Pointed stones dug into Starmie.
Starmie lost 12% of its health.
Starmie used Surf.
Metagross lost 49% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Metagross fainted.
---
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Salamence's Intimidate cut Starmie's attack!
dudecrap switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
Gyarados's Intimidate cut Salamence's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Gyarados.
Gyarados lost 25% of its health.
Salamence used Draco Meteor.
Gyarados lost 75% of its health.
dudecrap's Gyarados fainted.
Salamence's special attack was harshly lowered.
Salamence lost 10% of its health.
---
dudecrap switched in Starmie (lvl 100 Starmie).
Pointed stones dug into Starmie.
Starmie lost 12% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Tyranitar (lvl 100 Tyranitar ?).
Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
A sandstorm brewed!
Starmie used Ice Beam.
Tyranitar lost 20% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Starmie is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Starmie lost 6% of its health.
---
Starmie used Ice Beam.
Tyranitar lost 19% of its health.
Tyranitar used Dragon Dance.
Tyranitar's attack was raised.
Tyranitar's speed was raised.
The sandstorm rages.
Starmie is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Starmie lost 6% of its health.
---
dudecrap switched in Infernape (lvl 100 Infernape ?).
Pointed stones dug into Infernape.
Infernape lost 12% of its health.
Tyranitar used Crunch.
It's not very effective...
Infernape lost 46% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Infernape is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Infernape lost 6% of its health.
---
Infernape used Fake Out.
It's not very effective...
A critical hit!
Tyranitar lost 10% of its health.
Tyranitar flinched!
The sandstorm rages.
Infernape is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Infernape lost 6% of its health.
---
Tyranitar used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Infernape lost 21% of its health.
dudecrap's Infernape fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
---
dudecrap switched in Starmie (lvl 100 Starmie).
Pointed stones dug into Starmie.
Starmie lost 12% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Salamence's Intimidate cut Starmie's attack!
Starmie used Surf.
It's not very effective...
Salamence lost 33% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Starmie is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Starmie lost 6% of its health.
Salamence is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Salamence lost 6% of its health.
---
Starmie used Surf.
It's not very effective...
Salamence lost 33% of its health.
Salamence used Outrage.
Salamence went on a rampage!
Starmie lost 45% of its health.
dudecrap's Starmie fainted.
Salamence lost 1% of its health.
WE MISS LATIAS's Salamence fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
---
dudecrap switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
WE MISS LATIAS switched in Gliscor (lvl 100 Gliscor ?).
Pointed stones dug into Jirachi.
Jirachi lost 6% of its health.
Jirachi used Psychic.
Jirachi's attack missed!
Gliscor used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Jirachi lost 62% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
Jirachi used Psychic.
Gliscor lost 44% of its health.
Gliscor used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Jirachi lost 38% of its health.
dudecrap's Jirachi fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
---
dudecrap switched in Tyranitar (lvl 100 Tyranitar ?).
Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
Pointed stones dug into Tyranitar.
Tyranitar lost 12% of its health.
Gliscor used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Tyranitar lost 51% of its health.
Tyranitar used Crunch.
Gliscor lost 52% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
---
Gliscor used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Tyranitar lost 37% of its health.
dudecrap's Tyranitar fainted.
WE MISS LATIAS wins!
dudecrap has left the room.
WE MISS LATIAS: gg
Also, I just wanted to respond to this real quick. You're right, Salamence is now OU and good arguments backed by proper playing experience need to be presented in order for it to change tiering positions, not the other way around. But you have to understand that this is not a one-sided debate where the anti-Uber supporters are the gods of Pokemon and are indemnified from If you can't refute our points, then we have the right to claim Salamence is indeed Uber.
So far, I've read not one post that directly and straightforwardly counters the pro-Uber's overall argument that Salamence 2HKOs the metagame and that there are no practical ways to counter it in OU. If you're going to make the pro-Ubers jump through hoops to defend their stance (and we've done so, mind you, not because we needed to, but because we're perfectly capable of doing so and have a lot more to work with than you guys do), then you'd better at least grant us the liberty of doing the same before you stubbornly parade the topic with your viewpoints.
EDIT: Also, I appreciate the fact that you're posting logs and everything to actually back up your side of the debate, but I think you're kind of missing the point to why we're posting these logs at all to begin with. We don't just need examples, we need good examples, so that they'll actually amount to something other than random collected data. Random matches with huge skill gaps and inexperienced Salamence players can't exactly show us what it's capable of doing.
There have been no posts the other way around as well. I think you need to understand that this debate has no "prove right" or "prove wrong," no "refute" or "be refuted." All the facts about mence are facts-- whatever side they are posted by.
In tiering, the only thing to be decided is opinions-- the opinions of the council men.
What Shrang is getting at is that the opinion that must be made for mence to be Uber, is that the game is broken and unplayable while mence is in it-- that unless you give strong support that there is good reason for players to agree on the game being decidedly better without mence than with, the current tiering decision will stand.
Whatever limiting factors mence does or does not have on the meta, the fact is that when you do take a pokemon out of the meta, you lose its contribution to the complexity/game play of the meta. As much as possible, we want to have more pokemon allowed, which is why it is the pro-banning side that has to step up to the plate.
. . . ultimately though, Salamence's position is so borderline that regardless of what we decide, it's pretty much guaranteed re-assessment when Black & White comes out in September, less than 3 months from now.
Shrangs logs: so basically, Salamence vs. the world = Salamence wins?
There have been no posts the other way around as well. I think you need to understand that this debate has no "prove right" or "prove wrong," no "refute" or "be refuted." All the facts about mence are facts-- whatever side they are posted by.
Actually, it's more like "I think what Salamence does makes it Uber and here's why:" against "I think what Salamence does isn't good enough to make it Uber" with a lot of "since when does Salamence do any of that?!?" in between. All of those statements are completely debatable and that's why we have a 53-page clusterfuck on our hands.
The Flygon recovered with leftovers the turn Salamence switched in. Salamence fireblasting at that point was an awful move. Had Mence used Outrage, it would have killed the flygon and done enough damage to pert to have allowed his own pert to have killed it. Leaving his starmie with plenty of health to finish off the remaining pokes, providing you were able to kill machamp in that same manner.
In the breloom match, you should have earthquaked to break the subs.
Basically all of these logs contain either really fundamental errors, or were so onesided salamence's presence was irrelevant.
For SJC's logs, only in the third one is there a strong case that the opponent should have switched to the steel. The others didnt really have any chance of doing so..
The problem we have with Salamence is that it breaks EVERY wall and EVERY counter with basically one set. If it survives the initial onslaught, then it can go for a sweep with DD. Keep in mind that was a pretty small sample size, and some of the better matches I actually forgot to save (which sucks because I actually faced one of the top 10 today and Mence owned him pretty hard :/).
Keep comparing him to other sweepers/wallbreakers and you'll quickly find the advantages of perfect coverage and a nearly unresisted STAB coming from base 135 att put him on an entirely different level. As a matter of fact, I even demonstrated that in the second log, where we discovered that absolutely nothing was capable of getting through Gyarados, Jolteon, and Swampert all at once at -1 besides Salamence.
Your right, Salamence's unrivaled coverage and power in his STAB moves definatly lift Salamence above others like Infernape. In fact, if Outrage was a 120 Base power move with 85% accuracy and no draw back like Fire Blast then there would be no question about it, Salamence would be too overpowered for OU. But its Outrage's locking side effect (combined with Stealth Rock) that makes me think he is just managable enough for the metagame. If your forced to Outrage, you pull the trigger on yourself against prepared opponents, as thats what I'm always able to exploit against other Salamence users myself (with my trusty, Dragon Pulsing Heatran lol). I admit I usually have to either sacrafice a pokemon, or let one take a hardy hit in order to do it, but it isn't making me fall flat on my ass, not to mention that its almost the same way with Dragonite.
Shrang, I'm sorry to tell you this but your logs really mean nothing. I could go now and make a bunch of Garchomp logs in an OU enviroment (purely hypothetical) and as I have no experience of using him in OU, they would indicate that he was apparently not broken which of course he is.
What we need are a bunch of logs from experienced Mence users (Pro-Uber or OU) and evalute them to see Mence's true power. I agree that often Mence is not required with skilful players, however, every say 1 in 10 matches, Mence damages a team enough even against prepared foes that it is pretty much game over.
I hope you understand why I say this and don't mean to insult you.
Also a bunch of people say they've never had a problem with Mence, I'm guessing that is because they are in the lower levels of CRE generally and haven't had any experience of him being used properly. Heck, yesterday I beat an Uber team with my Suspect team, that doesn't mean they are OU does it?
lol wtf...how are people suppose to prove that salamence ISNT uber with posting logs? you want me to post logs of me NOT owning people with salamence? this seems like a losing battle that heavily favors the pro-uber side =/
Well, one way or another a handful of logs (and even if you posted 10 or 20, that'd still be "a handful" compared to the thousands of games played on shoddy every day) isn't really going to say anything.
There's also too much skewing looking at logs of particular players to call it "raw" data.
What you really need is a couple hundred randomized logs from players from a certain rating level.
In my opinion,Salamence isnt something overpowered in strict game terms.
However,Pokemon is a game of VARIETY,DIVERSITY and CHOICE.Salamence pretty much kills that choice and variety by turning half the games in the meta into a Salamence vs.Swampert rock/paper/scissors mindgame.This is imo wrong,and yeah,salamence gone may lead to a much steadier game since people will start using more defensive cores,but that's all for the better.
Wait, who says that a steady game is necessarily better?
GSC was "a steady game" (a stall circle-jerk), and GF realized that type of game was not as fun-- they didn't like the constant switching to perfect "counters."
GF took a lot of steps to speed up the battle in gen 3, and then even more in gen 4-- and I think that was a very good idea. Battles need a certain degree of speed to be interesting. It's no fun to just be switching back and forth and healing all day with a bunch of pokemon who perfectly counter each other in a massive circle-jerk (I keep using that phrase, but that's mostly because it's very illustrative of the point).
We always forget because we are playing on simulators, but on Wifi, a lot of people specifically AVOID pure-stall strategies because battles involving pure stall teams take too long! As it is, one could argue that the meta is not fast enough when looking at it through the perspective of DS battles.
Also if you want to talk about variety, diversity and choice-- it is FASTER more OFFENSIVE games that promote greater variety. When you have a meta that depends on offensive cores, you end up seeing the same 7-10 superior bulky sweepers in practically every battle.
If you want to talk about a meta that will surround defensive cores, we had a "bulky offensive" meta right after we banned garchomp and before putting in Latias (so it didn't last long). Practically every team was:
Heatran + Celebi + Bulky Water + Zapdos (or Rotom-A now) + 2 of (Tyranitar/Dragon Type/Ghost Type/Second Steel/Second Water)
That's what a metagame based on bulky defensive cores will look like-- practically every team choosing from a list of "solid checks" for the meta that will reduce most teams to the same small group of solid tanks.
But, throw out Blissey, and 10-15 special sweepers become viable. When you make it a kill-or-be-killed offensive meta, there are a lot of pokemon who can come into the meta to try their hand at their own gimmicky offensive builds. There will be more variety-- everyone just dies faster. It takes a lot more in terms of good build in typing and base stats when one has to take the job of switching in and out to counter other pokemon, but in a meta where everything is smacking everything for at least substantial damage, there are more things who can come in and try their hand at it.
In my opinion,Salamence isnt something overpowered in strict game terms.
However,Pokemon is a game of VARIETY,DIVERSITY and CHOICE.Salamence pretty much kills that choice and variety by turning half the games in the meta into a Salamence vs.Swampert rock/paper/scissors mindgame.This is imo wrong,and yeah,salamence gone may lead to a much steadier game since people will start using more defensive cores,but that's all for the better.
this is a HUGE exaggeration. I don't even know what you mean by the "Salamence vs. Swampert rock/paper/scissors mindgame" part
I think ChouToshio put it well by saying that the burden of proof is on the pro-Uber people. Basically OU should have as many pokemon as possible and a pokemon should only be banned if there is VERY strong evidence that it's overpowered. I think the Smogon voters have been far too liberal with the bannings recently
Logs aren't even supposed to be proof, they're more like examples. I'm not sure we even needed them since we ALL play this game and don't just make up all the shit we're debating...but those of you who are claiming ignorance on Salamence's abilities just may want to reevaluate how you're playing or what your opponents are doing that makes him seem "not broken" to you.
As one poster said earlier, you can play any Uber horribly and make them seem balanced. In fact, we actually did get a lot of that in the Manaphy and Latias suspect phases, but thankfully, most of the good players saw right through the facade and voted them straight to Ubers.
Alright, I really didn't want to do this but I'm going to jump into this thread to share my honest opinion about Salamence. Some players (both experienced and inexperienced) will probably disagree with me, but I only play from personal experience.
A) Is Salamence broken in the OU metagame?
B) Is the metagame better, healthier, and more enjoyable with Salamence out of the picture?
On the subject of whether Salamence is broken or not, it really is a tough question. Salamence is in fact the only reason for scarved base 100+s, aka ScarfGon, ScarfMie, and ScarfRachi, as they have a chance to outspeed and OHKO salamence. However, some people have the impression that this is the ONLY way to defeat Salamence, which is most certainly not the case. Salamence has several solid checks that in my opinion hold it back from true Uber status.
First and foremost, let's name everything that CAN POTENTIALLY hold a Salamence from sweeping an entire team with little to no effort: Scarfed base 100+s, residual damage (SR, Life Orb, Sandstrom), priority (Scizor, Mamoswine, Weavile), lack of chance to set up or force switches (numerous Pokemon here that are not OHKOed by any of Salamence's unboosted attacks), Pokemon that can withstand a +1 attack of Salamence's and threaten back (Swampert, Suicune, Cresselia, Hippowdon, Bronzong), being surprise-KOed by something unorthadox (Expert Belt Tyranitar, Shuca Metagross, etc). With all of this to worry about, Salamence can't always just say "After this Dragon Dance I will sweep the opponent's team thanks to Stealth Rock and one layer of spikes". On MixMence's table, there's three things that hold it back from being a complete and total broken monster: (mis)prediction, things that it can't OHKO/is outspeeded by, and residual damage. Prediction (for the record I don't really believe in "prediction" but oh well) is equally as important for the Salamence user as the Salamence's opponent; if you mispredict, you will end up losing your Salamence. For example, if I have my Heatran out and you send in MixMence, do you Earthquake assuming that I stay in, or do you Draco Meteor in case I switch into my Zapdos/Gyarados/scarved Rotom/Aerodactyl/X? When I have my Zapdos/Gyarados/scarved Rotom/Aerodactyl/X out, do you Draco Meteor, or do you EQ in case I switch into my Jirachi/Skarmory/Heatran/Bronzong/Blissey/X? And here's where most players say "Well Salamence can just switch out after it fires an attack," but this is not always the case. After SR and a turn of Life Orb recoil, Salamence is down to 65% (59% if Sandstorm is active). Can Salamence really afford to switch in again at that little health? Sure Salamence has access to Roost, but that gives the opponent a chance to attack/set up/use a status move that could ruin your Salamence for the remainder of the match (not to mention that Roost is rarely run on Salamence). In conclusion, Salamence sounds a lot better on paper than it does in the actual battle.
On to the second part: whether it makes the metagame more enjoyable or not. This is where my decision is clear and straight forward: the metagame without Salamence sucks ass (and I'm not saying that because I "can't win without Salamence" or anything like that, i got to #1 on the suspect ladder a couple of weeks ago with a CRE of over 1600). While you may think that our current metagame is stale because the "Dragon/Steel" combination is too dominant, let me just tell you that Suspect won't lead to versatality; instead, you'll be seeing Fire/Water/Grass team cores. Do you know what else you'll be seeing more of? Stall teams. Oh, and the last thing you'll see more of: Dragonite. So in essence, you still need whatever you used to handle Salamence to deal with Dragonite, with the exception of ScarfRachi, ScarfGon, etc (instead, they'll run +Atk natures instead of +Spe!). Except you'll also need to prepare for stall. It should be noted that the Suspect ladder is more repetative than Standard as well; the #20 most used Pokemon in Suspect is at over 12%, while the #20 most used Pokemon in standard is at less than 10% in usage. Look at the usage more closely now; you see Salamence, Latias, and Scizor replaced with Heatran, Infernape, and Starmie (as well as Celebi, Breloom and Shaymin at #19, 20 and 21 respectively). As soon as we take out one thing that centralizes the metagame, we get another (in this case, Heatran). Therefore, I am going to say that the metagame is NOT more enjoyable with salamence out of the picture.
Just to clarify, I do not believe that Salamence is not threatening; on the contrary, I think that it is the #1 threat in the current OU metagame. However, I feel that we need its centralization, because without it, we'll just become even more centralized around something else (in this case a F/W/G core). At least in the current metagame we have multiple viable team themes, but once Salamence says goodbye to standard, the selection for an offensive team with a Dragon type on it will be that much smaller, while you're forced to prepare for more, if that's even possible (preparing for more stall, and F/W/G offensive teams, while still having Kingdra/Dragonite/etc kept in check).
With Latias gone, it's become a lot more viable to have teams of speedy special attackers that have > base 100 speeds. I'm talking about dudes like Azelf, Infernape, Jolteon, Gengar, Starmie, etc. Given this, I don't see much that's wrong with Salamence when Latias is out of the picture, even though Scarf Latias was a Salamence check. It's just that, to be cliche, Salamence and Latias put together created a metagame that was a circle-jerk of Dragons and Steels. While both types are still strong in a metagame with only Salamence, it's not as centralized.
Log of a recent match where my opponent and I both used Salamences; his being a MixMence, and mine being a DD Mence with Draco Meteor.
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
zet oak sent out Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
ShiningYoshi sent out Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
ShiningYoshi switched in Heatran (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Metagross used Meteor Mash.
It's not very effective...
Heatran lost 14% of its health.
Metagross's attack was raised.
---
zet oak switched in Hippowdon (lvl 100 Hippowdon ?).
Hippowdon's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
A sandstorm brewed!
Heatran used Substitute.
Heatran lost 25% of its health.
Heatran made a substitute!
The sandstorm rages.
---
Heatran used Hidden Power.
It's super effective!
Hippowdon lost 61% of its health.
Heatran lost 10% of its health.
Hippowdon used Roar.
ShiningYoshi switched in Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
The sandstorm rages.
Hippowdon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hippowdon restored 6% of its health.
---
Scizor used Superpower.
Hippowdon lost 22% of its health.
Scizor's attack was lowered.
Scizor's defence was lowered.
Hippowdon used Slack Off.
Hippowdon restored 50% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Hippowdon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hippowdon restored 6% of its health.
---
ShiningYoshi switched in Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
Azelf makes ground moves miss with Levitate!
Hippowdon used Earthquake.
Hippowdon's attack missed!
The sandstorm rages.
Azelf is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Azelf lost 6% of its health.
Hippowdon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hippowdon restored 6% of its health.
---
zet oak switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
Azelf used Taunt.
Jirachi fell for the taunt!
The sandstorm rages.
Azelf is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Azelf lost 6% of its health.
---
Jirachi used U-turn.
It's super effective!
Azelf lost 65% of its health.
zet oak switched in Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
Azelf used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
The sandstorm rages.
Azelf is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Azelf lost 6% of its health.
---
ShiningYoshi switched in Heatran (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Metagross used Thunderpunch.
Heatran lost 27% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
---
Metagross used Thunderpunch.
A critical hit!
Heatran lost 23% of its health.
ShiningYoshi's Heatran fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
---
ShiningYoshi switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
zet oak switched in Hippowdon (lvl 100 Hippowdon ?).
Hippowdon's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
Pointed stones dug into Hippowdon.
Hippowdon lost 6% of its health.
Jirachi used Calm Mind.
Jirachi's special attack was raised.
Jirachi's special defence was raised.
The sandstorm rages.
Hippowdon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hippowdon restored 6% of its health.
---
Jirachi used Psychic.
Hippowdon lost 42% of its health.
Hippowdon used Roar.
ShiningYoshi switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Salamence's Intimidate cut Hippowdon's attack!
The sandstorm rages.
Salamence is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Salamence lost 6% of its health.
Hippowdon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hippowdon restored 6% of its health.
---
Salamence used Draco Meteor.
Hippowdon lost 49% of its health.
zet oak's Hippowdon fainted.
Salamence's special attack was harshly lowered.
The sandstorm rages.
Salamence is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Salamence lost 6% of its health.
---
zet oak switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Pointed stones dug into Blissey.
Blissey lost 12% of its health.
ShiningYoshi switched in Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
Blissey used Ice Beam.
Azelf lost 16% of its health.
ShiningYoshi's Azelf fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
Blissey is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Blissey lost 6% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
ShiningYoshi switched in Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
zet oak switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
Gyarados's Intimidate cut Scizor's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Gyarados.
Gyarados lost 25% of its health.
Scizor used U-turn.
It's not very effective...
Gyarados lost 13% of its health.
ShiningYoshi switched in Starmie (lvl 100 Starmie).
The sandstorm rages.
Starmie is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Starmie lost 6% of its health.
Gyarados is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Gyarados lost 6% of its health.
Gyarados's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gyarados restored 6% of its health.
---
zet oak switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Pointed stones dug into Blissey.
Blissey lost 12% of its health.
Starmie used Trick.
Starmie obtained Leftovers!
Blissey obtained Choice Scarf!
The sandstorm rages.
Starmie is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Starmie lost 6% of its health.
Blissey is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Blissey lost 6% of its health.
Starmie's leftovers restored its health a little!
Starmie restored 6% of its health.
---
Starmie used Ice Beam.
Blissey lost 11% of its health.
Blissey used Softboiled.
Blissey restored 42% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Starmie is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Starmie lost 6% of its health.
Blissey is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Blissey lost 6% of its health.
Starmie's leftovers restored its health a little!
Starmie restored 6% of its health.
---
zet oak switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
Pointed stones dug into Jirachi.
Jirachi lost 6% of its health.
Starmie used Thunderbolt.
Jirachi lost 30% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Starmie is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Starmie lost 6% of its health.
Starmie's leftovers restored its health a little!
Starmie restored 6% of its health.
---
Jirachi used U-turn.
It's super effective!
Starmie lost 59% of its health.
zet oak switched in Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
Pointed stones dug into Metagross.
Metagross lost 6% of its health.
Starmie used Hydro Pump.
Metagross lost 75% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Starmie is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Starmie lost 6% of its health.
Starmie's leftovers restored its health a little!
Starmie restored 6% of its health.
---
Metagross used Earthquake.
Starmie lost 35% of its health.
ShiningYoshi's Starmie fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
---
ShiningYoshi switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
zet oak switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
Gyarados's Intimidate cut Salamence's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Gyarados.
Gyarados lost 25% of its health.
Salamence used Dragon Dance.
Salamence's attack was raised.
Salamence's speed was raised.
The sandstorm rages.
Salamence is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Salamence lost 6% of its health.
Gyarados is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Gyarados lost 6% of its health.
Gyarados's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gyarados restored 6% of its health.
---
Salamence used Draco Meteor.
Gyarados lost 37% of its health.
zet oak's Gyarados fainted.
Salamence's special attack was harshly lowered.
The sandstorm rages.
Salamence is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Salamence lost 6% of its health.
---
zet oak switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Pointed stones dug into Blissey.
Blissey lost 12% of its health.
ShiningYoshi switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
Blissey used Ice Beam.
It's not very effective...
Jirachi lost 8% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Blissey is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Blissey lost 6% of its health.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
zet oak switched in Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
Pointed stones dug into Metagross.
Metagross lost 6% of its health.
Jirachi used Calm Mind.
Jirachi's special attack was raised.
Jirachi's special defence was raised.
The sandstorm rages.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 2% of its health.
---
Metagross used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Jirachi lost 48% of its health.
Jirachi used Wish.
Jirachi made a wish!
The sandstorm rages.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
ShiningYoshi switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Metagross used Earthquake.
It doesn't affect Salamence...
The wish came true!
Salamence restored 24% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Salamence is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Salamence lost 6% of its health.
---
zet oak switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
Pointed stones dug into Jirachi.
Jirachi lost 6% of its health.
Salamence used Dragon Dance.
Salamence's attack was raised.
Salamence's speed was raised.
The sandstorm rages.
Salamence is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Salamence lost 6% of its health.
---
ShiningYoshi switched in Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
Jirachi used Iron Head.
It's not very effective...
Scizor lost 19% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
---
zet oak switched in Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
Pointed stones dug into Metagross.
Metagross lost 6% of its health.
Scizor used U-turn.
Metagross lost 7% of its health.
zet oak's Metagross fainted.
ShiningYoshi switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
The sandstorm rages.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
zet oak switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Salamence's Intimidate cut Jirachi's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Salamence.
Salamence lost 25% of its health.
Salamence used Draco Meteor.
It's not very effective...
Jirachi lost 26% of its health.
Salamence's special attack was harshly lowered.
Jirachi used Psychic.
Salamence lost 40% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Salamence is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Salamence lost 6% of its health.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
zet oak switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
Pointed stones dug into Jirachi.
Jirachi lost 6% of its health.
Jirachi used Wish.
Jirachi made a wish!
The sandstorm rages.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
ShiningYoshi switched in Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
Jirachi used Trick.
Jirachi obtained Choice Scarf!
Scizor obtained Choice Scarf!
The wish came true!
Scizor restored 19% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
---
zet oak switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Salamence's Intimidate cut Scizor's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Salamence.
Salamence lost 25% of its health.
Scizor used U-turn.
It's not very effective...
Salamence lost 4% of its health.
zet oak's Salamence fainted.
ShiningYoshi switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
The sandstorm rages.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
zet oak switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
Pointed stones dug into Jirachi.
Jirachi lost 6% of its health.
Jirachi used Iron Head.
It's not very effective...
Jirachi lost 12% of its health.
Jirachi flinched!
The sandstorm rages.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
Jirachi used Iron Head.
It's not very effective...
Jirachi lost 12% of its health.
Jirachi flinched!
The sandstorm rages.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
Jirachi used Iron Head.
It's not very effective...
Jirachi lost 11% of its health.
Jirachi flinched!
The sandstorm rages.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
Jirachi used Iron Head.
It's not very effective...
Jirachi lost 10% of its health.
Jirachi used Wish.
Jirachi made a wish!
The sandstorm rages.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
Jirachi used Iron Head.
It's not very effective...
A critical hit!
Jirachi lost 23% of its health.
Jirachi flinched!
The wish came true!
Jirachi restored 50% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
Jirachi used Iron Head.
It's not very effective...
Jirachi lost 12% of its health.
Jirachi flinched!
The sandstorm rages.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
Jirachi used Iron Head.
It's not very effective...
Jirachi lost 11% of its health.
Jirachi used Wish.
Jirachi made a wish!
The sandstorm rages.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
zet oak switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Pointed stones dug into Blissey.
Blissey lost 12% of its health.
Jirachi used Calm Mind.
Jirachi's special attack was raised.
Jirachi's special defence was raised.
The wish came true!
Jirachi restored 40% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Blissey is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Blissey lost 6% of its health.
---
Jirachi used Calm Mind.
Jirachi's special attack was raised.
Jirachi's special defence was raised.
Blissey used Softboiled.
Blissey restored 43% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Blissey is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Blissey lost 6% of its health.
---
zet oak switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
Pointed stones dug into Jirachi.
Jirachi lost 6% of its health.
Jirachi used Calm Mind.
Jirachi's special attack was raised.
Jirachi's special defence was raised.
The sandstorm rages.
---
Jirachi used Trick.
Jirachi obtained Leftovers!
Jirachi obtained Choice Scarf!
Jirachi used Thunderbolt.
Jirachi lost 40% of its health.
zet oak's Jirachi fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
---
zet oak switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Pointed stones dug into Blissey.
Blissey lost 12% of its health.
Jirachi used Thunderbolt.
Blissey lost 18% of its health.
Blissey used Flamethrower.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Jirachi lost 73% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Blissey is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Blissey lost 6% of its health.
---
Jirachi used Thunderbolt.
Blissey lost 18% of its health.
Blissey used Flamethrower.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Jirachi lost 27% of its health.
ShiningYoshi's Jirachi fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
Blissey is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Blissey lost 6% of its health.
---
ShiningYoshi switched in Salamence (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Salamence's Intimidate cut Blissey's attack!
zet oak has left the room.
ShiningYoshi wins!
In this match, although my Salamence didn't sweep, its presence really helped me get the win. After seeing it pop in and out, firing a few DMs, I think my opponent assumed it was a MixMence. His Salamence ended up DM'ing my Jirachi in hopes that I would switch in my DDMence, which allowed me to KO his MixMence. This is not to say I am pro-Uber; the more I ladder, the more I feel that Salamence balances itself in a way. As one of the most, if not the most threatening presences in the OU metagame, it forces people to play very carefully and focus on preserving something that can kill it. Again, the reason I won this match was not because I swept with my Salamence - Outraging would have meant one kill and then death for Salamence because I knew his Blissey was carrying Ice Beam. His Hippowdon would also have been to take a hit and phaze me out, had it still been alive. Yes, more often than not Salamence WILL force a sacrifice of some kind, but its best attacks, DM on Mixed and Outrage on DD, both have significant drawbacks that allow it to be checked by either faster pokemon or revenged by something that can survive a hit from it. IMO, it is the best pokemon in OU, but my experiences with running MixMence involve it getting whittled down a lot by SR, SS, and LO damage, which does limit its lifespan. And although I like this team involving a DM'ing DDMence, sometimes I have no choice but to Outrage, which will usually end up in Mence getting killed.
It should be noted that the Suspect ladder is more repetative than Standard as well; the #20 most used Pokemon in Suspect is at over 12%, while the #20 most used Pokemon in standard is at less than 10% in usage.
Suspect ladder has far fewer people filling up a far larger percentage of the people playing on it. It also has a much greater proportion of players who are highly skilled.
Comparing the levels of usage in the two ladders is unfortunately strongly biased towards standard.
However the level of heatran usage on suspect is unsettling..
On the subject of whether Salamence is broken or not, it really is a tough question. Salamence is in fact the only reason for scarved base 100+s, aka ScarfGon, ScarfMie, and ScarfRachi, as they have a chance to outspeed and OHKO salamence. However, some people have the impression that this is the ONLY way to defeat Salamence, which is most certainly not the case. Salamence has several solid checks that in my opinion hold it back from true Uber status.
Just wanted to address and point out that this is falacy-- there is plenty of reason to use scarf 100+'s outside of Salamence. In fact, there is often little relevance.
Let's start with Flygon. This is actually a really terrible example. Unless you are packing Dragon Claw or Draco Meteor, you are staying far, FAR away from salamence. Flygon is really weak-- Jolly Flygon's Outrage does 31% MAX to Shuffle Suicune, as little as 26%. Against things that actually resist it, the damage is even more pathetic. Flygon's survival to late game will almost always be the deciding factor for a team using flygon-- but not if it spams outrage to try and kill salamence early game (and running into an ice punch jirachi instead). That's just completely stupid.
Scarf Flygon has no business being on the same field as Salamence, unless it's late game and Flygon already knows it can sweep all the remaining pokes with Outrage. If some idiot switched in his flygon into my mence (say against EQ or Fire Blast), I'd be DD'ing up or Draco Meteor'ing, because almost guaranteed that thing is just U-Turning out again. If there is a pokemon that has been key in keeping Flygon scarf'd, it's Scarf Heatran, who's previous popularity started people looking at Scarf Flygon (following Garchomp's ban) in the first place.
With Starmie, let's just face the fact it's not even that popular. Only 16% of Starmie are scarf'd. Even that 16%, it's got a lot of uses other than taking down Salamence. There's Gyarados as well. Starmie also has a beef to pick with other scarf users-- Flygon and to a lesser extent Infernape, are popular and powerful scarf users who love to abuse U-Turn. Scarf-U-Turn REALLy screws with starmie regularly, but with a scarf of its own, Flygon/Infernape have a lot more trouble. Last but certainly not least, there's the blissey issue. Outside of Trick-Scarf, there is absolutely nothing Starmie can do to blissey, and that alone is reason to seriously consider scarfmie.
Scarf-Rachi is one of Jirachi's Gayes-- I mean annoying sets, not because it can revenge mence, but because of all the f'ing HAX from Iron Head. Being able to take down mence is of course a huge plus, but Serene Grace Iron Head, and potential for U-Turn, Trick, and a super fast Stealth Rock on a poke with SR resistance and terrific resistances is almost too much to pass up on a choice pokemon.
In short, there's lots of good reason to use these pokes outside of Salamence. If anything, I'd say rather than mence, the previous popularity of Scarf-Heatran was more key in throwing scarf on faster and faster pokemon. Scarf-ttar's current popularity is also related.
