Jealousy: Love or Insecurity?

[RheaJ]

Many see jealousy as one of the more negative traits of human nature. I'm sure many of us have experienced just how much jealousy can be stifling in a relationship. I'm also sure many of us would also be quick to say that jealousy-the fear and anxiety over the quality of our relationship or the possibility of our partners' affection for a (sometimes imaginary) rival-spawns from the deep, dark abyss that is our insecurities.

Insecurity as the root of jealousy explains why, generally, the more insecure one is, the more jealous one tends to be. It also explains why couples with jealous partners tend to be unsuccessful, because of the suspicion, anger and distrust, and the lack of communication the sprouts from jealousy. Insecure people get a lot of flack; everybody likes (or is envious of :P) somebody who is confident.

But puzzlingly, there are many situations where jealousy is used as a measure of how valuable the relationship is to both parties. Whether it be in movies, books, manga, or real life, I have seen cases where one partner is peeved (or, in those especially dramatic stories, finds himself/herself completely incompatible) because the other does not feel jealous at all, even when the former is in a situation that would "normally" incite jealousy in the latter. It shows "there's just no love."

Would party A not be delighted that party B does not get jealous, as it demonstrates B's assurance not only in himself but also in A and their relationship? If the general attitude is that jealousy is borne from insecurity, why would A assume B's lack of jealousy is due not to his confidence in the strength of their relationship and that A will not go running off with some other random letter of the alphabet, but that B does not value their relationship at all?

Similarly, I always hear people say "a little jealousy is okay for a healthy relationship". Is that because arguably every healthy human is insecure in some way, and so it is expected that jealousy is experienced in every human relationship? Or is it that jealousy is a sign of love? Could it possibly be both?, and that it is simply the degree to which one exhibits jealousy that indicates it's source? Where would the boundary be? Is NO jealousy in a relationship a bad thing, in that it shows no real emotional investment? Is it even possible to experience no jealousy in a relationship? I'd like to know your opinions.

tl;dr What is your opinion on jealousy, it's sources, and the different attitudes towards it?

(I hope this gets you guys talking)

 

[TheAmazingFlygon]

I am far from being an expert of the human psychology especially in relationship. However, I can firmly state that jealousy is bad seeing as envy is far too extreme to be healthy. On the contrary, having a ''moderate jealousy'' (or simple desire) is good to a certain extent, IMO.

 

[vonFiedler]

It's not "jealousy" that stifles relationships, it's "being an asshole".

 

[Trax]

It can be either, neither or both.

 

[BuddyBlueBomber]

First, lets start by stating what exactly jealousy is. Jealousy is a concept used that is less specific than, but encompasses both envy and fear. In a relationship, jealousy is generally referred as its aspect of fear: being afraid that your partner is unfaithful, as an example. Jealousy is a very strong emotion because both of its "root emotions" are strong as well. A lot of people see jealousy as an unattractive emotion; something that you generally don't want to see in a person or in a relationship. However, like you said, other people say that it's good to have a little jealousy, as it is a sign that shows they care about their partner. I am not one of those people.

In a secure relationship, jealousy only causes problems. It instills worry in the individual; most likely from a bad experience that happened in that relationship or one before it. When someone worries, they are either worrying needlessly (Which in this case the jealous individual is hurting the relationship), or the person worries because their partner has done something that has hurt the relationship directly, such as being unfaithful (In this case, the one who was unfaithful is obviously hurting the relationship). Hopefully, these are things that a person wants to avoid between partners.

If there is no jealousy in a relationship, this does not mean that the person does not care for the other. This just means that they are secure enough in themselves and their relationship that they do not need to feel jealous. Of coarse, there are always exceptions to the rule. If someone is blatantly doing something unfaithful and the person is not jealous, this can mean that they do indeed feel indifferent, which is the same as not caring. This is not usually the case, and generally, jealousy is something you want to avoid fostering as a whole.

 

[cim]

Everyone here should know how much I love sweeping and general statements by now.

That being said, I'd say it's a little of both, but I know someone would just read that to justify why something that's more one way is the other. So I'll go ahead and say while yes it is "love" in that you can be jealous because you're insecure about losing something you care about, all jealousy is inherently insecurity when you get down to it in my book.

However, not all insecurity is inherently destructive or harmful to a relationship...

 

[FlareBlitz]

Jealousy is insecurity. Love implicitly involves trust; if you love someone, you will trust them not to cheat, meaning you won't be jealous.

That said, I'm not a big believer in love myself, so I think jealousy is a natural part of a relationship. The relevant question is how to express jealousy, or even whether to do so.

As far as I'm concerned, jealousy should not be expressed in a relationship. Either you trust your partner or you don't. If you don't, merely accept that they might be screwing around behind your back; getting pissed off about it and yelling won't make them stop, and it'll just increase your stress levels. If you simply find your partner is not trustworthy, break up.
If you do trust your partner (lol why), then you have nothing to worry about. It's still natural to feel jealous, but again, keep it to yourself, since you know nothing will come out of it.

 

[cim]

The reason insecurities are insecurities is because they aren't rational. Many rational people trust their partners not to cheat, but are insecure about any number of things (not just cheating, but losing their partner's affections, their partner falling out of love with them for someone else, etc). To say a relationship can't have love unless you are free of any insecurity is just a ridiculous demand no person will ever be able to meet.

 

[FlareBlitz]

The reason insecurities are insecurities is because they aren't rational. Many rational people trust their partners not to cheat, but are insecure about any number of things (not just cheating, but losing their partner's affections, their partner falling out of love with them for someone else, etc). To say a relationship can't have love unless you are free of any insecurity is just a ridiculous demand no person will ever be able to meet.

Perhaps you should read my post again. I was dealing with the expression of insecurity or jealousy, not necessarily the feeling. That is, if you love and trust someone, you have no reason to feel jealous, and thus no reason to express that jealousy by talking to them about their flirtations or whatever. You may still feel irrationally jealous, but you should not express it in any way.

 

[Ericcc]

I am far from being an expert of the human psychology especially in relationship. However, I can firmly state that jealousy is bad seeing as envy is far too extreme to be healthy. On the contrary, having a ''moderate jealousy'' (or simple desire) is good to a certain extent, IMO.

Pretty much this.
Although I can say there's a pretty THICK line between jealousy and say... Obsession or something

 

[Desolate]

In basic principle, jealousy is controversial, as well as subjective, and even those claims are argued. I believe jealousy and all its affiliates (causes, effects, etc) are empirical. I also believe that jealousy is not completely negative, as human nature involves several passions that offset each other.

 

[drifblim70]

I didn't know jealousy =/= envy, but ah, ok. As far as relationships go I haven't had many of them to be honest (straight-up romantic ones), so ah, I'll just take a few jabs at the concept in general: someone gets envious when they wish they could have something nicer than what they have, or compares their lack of something with someone's seemingly unjustified possession of something. If I'm really poor, I might envy a rich person, since they seem to have an easier life than me due to the money they have that I don't. So I might envy their money. If I think I'm ugly, I might envy a handsome guy because I wish I could have his looks, which I perceive as making life easier, which means I envy his looks. Makes sense to me: imperfection (/perceived imperfection/difficulty) envies (perceived) perfection/easiness. It's like that thing with the pyramid, the pyramid of wants or whatever it is: hunger/clothing/necessities at the bottom, self-actualization (I wish I looked better/was smarter) at the top. Envy can be annoying to deal with, but meh, it seems a part of life.

As far as love goes, I still don't see the difference between jealousy and envy. If I'm in love with someone, I'm not really going to be jealous of them, but I might be jealous of who they're with, assuming my love is unrequited. I'd also be envious of whoever she loved, because that's the way I define the word, but meh, if I'm wrong w/e. Same difference? Envy is close to desire as a concept, if I covet something I want to have it, which sort of drives being, really. A story can't function without something the hero(ine) wants (peace, love, an object, w/e), and probably something to stop them from having it, and ah... well now I'm rambling, so...

 

[TheAmazingFlygon]

I didn't know jealousy =/= envy, but ah, ok. As far as relationships go I haven't had many of them to be honest (straight-up romantic ones), so ah, I'll just take a few jabs at the concept in general: someone gets envious when they wish they could have something nicer than what they have, or compares their lack of something with someone's seemingly unjustified possession of something. If I'm really poor, I might envy a rich person, since they seem to have an easier life than me due to the money they have that I don't. So I might envy their money. If I think I'm ugly, I might envy a handsome guy because I wish I could have his looks, which I perceive as making life easier, which means I envy his looks. Makes sense to me: imperfection (/perceived imperfection/difficulty) envies (perceived) perfection/easiness. It's like that thing with the pyramid, the pyramid of wants or whatever it is: hunger/clothing/necessities at the bottom, self-actualization (I wish I looked better/was smarter) at the top. Envy can be annoying to deal with, but meh, it seems a part of life.

As far as love goes, I still don't see the difference between jealousy and envy. If I'm in love with someone, I'm not really going to be jealous of them, but I might be jealous of who they're with, assuming my love is unrequited. I'd also be envious of whoever she loved, because that's the way I define the word, but meh, if I'm wrong w/e. Same difference? Envy is close to desire as a concept, if I covet something I want to have it, which sort of drives being, really. A story can't function without something the hero(ine) wants (peace, love, an object, w/e), and probably something to stop them from having it, and ah... well now I'm rambling, so...

Envy is stronger than jealously, but I simply needed a synonym; I didn't want to repeat myself too much. As far as non-love business is concerned, I don't think you should be jealous of someone richer than you, but desire such wealth if you do believe that money will bring you or will allow you to take one more step on the road down to happiness.

 

[avroillusion]

I believe jealousy being used as a measure of love comes from popular culture; it makes things "exciting". I personally find it really annoying. Popular culture projects onto real life, so that's why you see the concept being toted around you. Insecurity is bad for any romantic relationship; so it must be dealt with through ample communication.

 

[cim]

Perhaps you should read my post again. I was dealing with the expression of insecurity or jealousy, not necessarily the feeling. That is, if you love and trust someone, you have no reason to feel jealous, and thus no reason to express that jealousy by talking to them about their flirtations or whatever. You may still feel irrationally jealous, but you should not express it in any way.

More often than not, open and honest communication trumps suppression because you think you're supposed to feel differently than you do. You can't honestly expect to be good enough at hiding irrational insecurity that it won't show up in some subtle way, so saying it should never be discussed just makes it so you can't disclose your concerns or that your beliefs ARE irrational.

In a mutually beneficial relationship, both parties make amends to help each other even if it's not fair or rational. If I felt really uneasy about some guy, it would be reasonable of me to request that someone I'm dating not constantly talk about them in a favorable light, thus feeding my insecurity even more.

Tldr: Communication trumps everything.

 

[Zacchaeus]

I think that you can definitely be jealous without being insecure, and you can just as well be jealous without loving the target of said jealousy. Like, you can be protective in a relationship without being insecure, but a lot of times people jump to conclusions on that subject and immediately say if you're jealous or overprotective, you're insecure. I think that there are exceptions to pretty much anything, jealousy included.

 

[FlareBlitz]

More often than not, open and honest communication trumps suppression because you think you're supposed to feel differently than you do. You can't honestly expect to be good enough at hiding irrational insecurity that it won't show up in some subtle way, so saying it should never be discussed just makes it so you can't disclose your concerns or that your beliefs ARE irrational.

In a mutually beneficial relationship, both parties make amends to help each other even if it's not fair or rational. If I felt really uneasy about some guy, it would be reasonable of me to request that someone I'm dating not constantly talk about them in a favorable light, thus feeding my insecurity even more.

Tldr: Communication trumps everything.

Sorry mate, I've been in too many relationships for me to take this as valid advice. Communication only "trumps everything" if two people are perfectly compatible; otherwise, some things just aren't smart, from the perspective of maintaining the relationship, to discuss. This is especially true in my case, since I get really pissed off whenever my girlfriend tells me not to talk to or about another girl, and I've also dated girls who take their independence very seriously.

Our culture has this weird inclination towards assuming that talking about things couples disagree on will make things better. It will not. It will merely highlight the disagreements and make them more prominent. I find it's a lot better to just ignore my insecurities (particularly if, as you seem to imply, they're irrational insecurities anyway) and focus on the good times...at least from the perspective of maintaining a relationship. I don't often follow my own advice in this case because I'm confrontational and I can't stand some opinions (which comes into particular prominence since I live in the bible belt), which often turns a lot of promising girls into one-nighters.

 

[cim]

Not talking about issues you have in a relationship is possibly the stupidest decision you can make in the context of a long term relationship. I think you're mixing up "discussing things that bother you" with "demanding things of your partner that are unreasonable, repeatedly". You speak of your current girlfriend and how you get pissed off when she asks or tells you not to do whatever. Do you really a think a relationship where you have to stick your head in the sand all the time is one that's going to last long?

Obviously you don't whip out everything you don't like about someone on your first date and you learn to live with stuff and compromise on others, but I don't see how it's at all healthy to completely avoid issues you could be helping each other with, like dealing with random insecurities.

 

[CaptKirby]

Jealously comes mostly from a lack of experience, a lack of understanding of how to be in a relationship to me. I was extremely jealous with my first girlfriend from fear that she was going to leave me at any given time...if she was talking to another guy friend away from me, I was practically going nuts. I was also jealous with my second girlfriend, but then started to grow up a lot. So that was insecurity that came from not having been with many girls, I think that goes away as a person gains perspective, and I definitely personally grew to view jealousy as "wrong".

I had a girlfriend who was a) mad when I was not jealous b) jealous over my myspace friends...who happened to be like 13 year old friends from church (we were both 18...) c) cheated on me at the end of the relationship! That pretty much took the cake; I guess she was so mad I trusted her that she decided to prove me wrong.

I will never be jealous, and it is not because I do not care about someone. It is because the other person is not my property.

 

[AJers]

Jealousy Jealousy Jealousy.... It's a complicated subject. There are so many areas where jealousy arises; but at the heart of it I *do* think that people experience jealousy when they are insecure. That doesn't mean that they don't love the person, nor does it mean that they love them; it can be either. I don't think relationships where either (or both) of the partners are jealous/possessive even if they have some valid excuses for WHY they are so (ie, burned once and afraid of being burned again) are going to last; if you don't trust your significant other the relationship is NOT going to last unless you invest some serious time in getting help (and even then I doubt it will).

On the other hand... I think it's fairly natural to be somewhat protective of significant others, and I know that couples usually like to "stake claims" on one another when out together (usually done by holding hands/hugging/kissing/wedding bands/etc). And I don't think that's a bad thing, as long as it's not taken too far; but it's a really delicate balance.

As an anecdote: just a few weeks ago I was celebrating with a group of friends, many of whom are in committed relationships. One of the girls (who is in a relationship) was flirting with a couple firefighters and they were giving her their numbers while her boy was getting drinks; Ian saw Liliah flirting with them and laughed... walked over with her drink and put his arm around her. Liliah still scored the numbers but jokingly texted all of us that Ian had cockblocked her. It was hysterical, and Ian managed to "stake his claim" without being overly possessive (although definitely obvious).

Anyways, tl;dr. Jealousy= insecurity.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Not talking about issues you have in a relationship is possibly the stupidest decision you can make in the context of a long term relationship. I think you're mixing up "discussing things that bother you" with "demanding things of your partner that are unreasonable, repeatedly". You speak of your current girlfriend and how you get pissed off when she asks or tells you not to do whatever. Do you really a think a relationship where you have to stick your head in the sand all the time is one that's going to last long?

Have you ever been in a long term relationship? There will be fundamental aspects of each other that you CANNOT STAND. Especially if you start living together, jesus. I'm of the personal belief that I shouldn't try to change people just to make them more compaitble with me. I either get along with someone or our differences are too irreconcilable and we go our separate ways. Spending time on someone and "talking about our problems" and attempting to make them change to fit your desires is a sure-fire way to end up in a crappy, unfulfilling relationship. Just take people as they are, talk about issues if you feel they can be changed (things like smoking and excessive drinking, for instance) and either put up with everything else (this includes things like dislike of their music, annoying pet peeves, irrational feelings of insecurity, whatever) or get out of the relationship.

Obviously you don't whip out everything you don't like about someone on your first date and you learn to live with stuff and compromise on others, but I don't see how it's at all healthy to completely avoid issues you could be helping each other with, like dealing with random insecurities.

People cannot "help each other with issues", sorry. Not unless, as I stated before, it's something like smoking or drinking where it's a chemical/psychological addiction. Some things are just ingrained into personalities or are immutable traits formed through a lifetime of practice.

Really, you just need to know about a person and decide whether you can live with their shortcomings. All other communication is just bitching.

 

[cim]

People cannot "help each other with issues", sorry. Not unless, as I stated before, it's something like smoking or drinking where it's a chemical/psychological addiction. Some things are just ingrained into personalities or are immutable traits formed through a lifetime of practice.

Really, you just need to know about a person and decide whether you can live with their shortcomings. All other communication is just bitching.

It's less "helping them not do something" and more "oh i didn't knw that bothered you i'll stop now". Seriously, if you feel you can't communicate with someone about anything about them that bothers you, maybe that's why your long term relationships haven't worked out?

While learning to live with flaws is important, learning to actually talk to your fucking partner is a LOT more important.

(Yes, I've been in long term relationships before)

 

[Morm]

Jealously comes mostly from a lack of experience, a lack of understanding of how to be in a relationship to me.

Wisdom. Still, even the best of us are prone to being jealous. It's just how life rolls sometimes. It's an instinct that hits us to protect things we covet, such as women.

 

[Shinxe]

Actually my ex was wicked jealous, not in the kind of way where it was like 'YOU CAN'T TALK TO ANYBODY ELSE' but just in the way where I was constantly feeling that if I ever made a decision that didn't include 'im, I was placing somebody/something as a greater importance to our relationship.

Like, I feel the more insecure you are, the more likely you are to outwardly display jealousy and try to use it to affect your partner. I can be jealous too, probably as much as the next person, but I'll keep it to myself and then just let it go, rather than using it to manipulate whoever I'm with into feeling like I have to be #1 all the time. Because that's selfish, unrealistic, and usually making a huge deal out of nothing.

On the flipside, and part of why I think the phrase 'a little jealousy is good' is often used, is because people tend to like just a dash of possessiveness or jealousy or something, to give off the thrill of courtship, etc. Like even though you don't want somebody to be restricting you through their jealousy, you don't want them to grow complacent, and so on and so forth.

But it seems wearying to hold that over your partner's head... jealousy can be an ugly thing, even in "moderation".

 

[Nix_Hex]

I have dated my current girlfriend for six years, since my junior year of high school. I knew her for two years before we dated and, having always liked her from the beginning, I paid close attention to how she interacted with others, be it guys or gals. She was not shy, but one of those rare gems of a girl who gets along with everyone just by being likable and not starting stuff with others. If, in those two years I had witnessed her as a different person, one who got inappropriately close to a bunch of guys (ie, being overly flirtatiously or sleeping around), I wouldn't have considered dating her, plain and simple. Hence, over the past six years, I have had absolutely no reason to be jealous over her, because I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that she has no interest in other dudes, since it is outside of her character.

I'd like to say that I was afforded a luxury in having time to evaluate her character and make an educated decision whether or not to date her, but why doesn't everyone do it? There is no reason to act upon infatuation and just dive into a relationship, when you don't really know ahead of time that their habits make them very capable of hurting you. Though I've always had my own insecurities (come on, I'm a nerd who plays Pokémon) I have never once had a reason to be jealous of another in my relationship with her.

This is not to say that you should take this for granted. Having a partner who is trustworthy is not an unalienable right; it is a privilege granted by finding the right person in the first place, and maintained by treating your partner with the utmost respect and love. Respect for her is what convinces her to respect you, plain and simple. Admittedly, this is an area in which I need work. If I'm aggravated or uncomfortable about something (not only about issues in the relationship but about life in general), I am horrible at hiding it, and I do not like when she calls me out on it. A combination of my introversion and my fear of hurting her feelings makes me stubborn and it takes a lot to get me to open up and state my point.

In short, what I am saying is that jealousy in a relationship stems from a mix of our own insecurities, but moreover our inability to make rational judgments when finding a partner. I hope this has all made sense. Great thread, by the way; major kudos to the OP for bringing this up.