Smogon Superstars II Preliminaries

[Phantom_IV]

With a tad of luck, I beat locopoke 1-0.

Good game, man.

Sorry about that annoying commenting guy.

Edit: Well, it kinda makes up for that you CH'ed my lead and stopped rocks. (and you wouldn't have had nearly as many switch-ins with that thing without it).

 

[Flamewheeler]

Just waiting to see my oppenents. I'll get on as much as I can 'til the deadline.

 

[Dave]

Beat Locopoke in a good game. TFP

 

[locopoke]

Lost to stone as well

 

[apologies]

ok who cares if the sub doesnt have 4 recommendations just put someone in here
and i havent seen mdragon on irc in ages...

 

[tripe]

Alright people, KOTW is in.

 

[KnightoftheWind]

Made contact with apologies. I've got plenty of free time, so I should be able to complete my matches soon enough.

 

[Phantom_IV]

Is it optimal to have the Win:Loss ratio decide the preliminaries? Because by those numbers, someone who only played one match (and won it) would advance over someone who played 5 matches and won 4. Perhaps it should be total wins?

 

[undisputed]

That's what its at. If you have a higher number of wins, you have a better win loss ratio

 

[goofball]

Yo Tripe tell me if I go 4-0 with my remaining battles, will I be able to make top16 or not!

 

[tripe]

Yo Tripe tell me if I go 4-0 with my remaining battles, will I be able to make top16 or not!

In your case, the best you can hope for is a giant tie. The advancing members would be Limitless, and either you or delta2777, since the two of you guys would have equal opponent wins.

 

[undisputed]

Goofball, if you won all your matches, you would be guaranteed to move on. You would have the head to head tie breaker against anyone that could tie with you at 4-3.

 

[tripe]

Goofball, if you won all your matches, you would be guaranteed to move on. You would have the head to head tie breaker against anyone that could tie with you at 4-3.

No, he wouldn't. To break tiebreakers like this, I am taking the wins of the opponents defeated and comparing. If Flygon is beaten twice, that'd leave Delta, goof, and Ironbullet left. Delta would have 6 from limitless, 3 from LN, 1 from KD, 3 from _Flygon_, which is 13. Ironbullet would have 3 from EnZ0, 3 from LN, 4 from Delta, 1 from KD, which is 11. Goof would have 4 from Delta, 4 from Iron bullet, 1 from KD, and 3 from Flygon which is 12.

Now if Flygon beats Limitless, Flygon would have 3 from enz0, 3 from LN, 4 from Ironbullet, and 5 from Limitless, giving him 15, and giving both Delta and Goof only 13. However, since there are only 3 tied people, round robin could also be used, but only once. If no winner is determined after one round robin, we'll take the wins from the opponents system to avoid being here all day.

So tl;dr version:
Goofball will advance if, these steps happen:
1. Flygon defeats Limitless.
2. Goofball wins 4 in a row
3. Goofball defeats Delta2777

 

[undisputed]

No that point system is stupid when Delta, flygon, and ironbullet are the only ones that can (at best) tie him at 4-3. In this case, goofball would have won against all 3 of these players, he would win head to head. Your point system would be fine if Goofball lost to one of those 3, but it would be a massive injustice to determine a pool like that if the situation should arise. In almost any competitive event, head to head is the first criteria used to determine a winner, and I don't see why it wouldn't be used here when it's certainly applicable.

 

[tripe]

No that point system is stupid when Delta, flygon, and ironbullet are the only ones that can (at best) tie him at 4-3. In this case, goofball would have won against all 3 of these players, he would win head to head. Your point system would be fine if Goofball lost to one of those 3, but it would be a massive injustice to determine a pool like that if the situation should arise. In almost any competitive event, head to head is the first criteria used to determine a winner, and I don't see why it wouldn't be used here when it's certainly applicable.

Fairness of all other tie scenarios is the reason why I am using this system rather than your system.
I realize that going through all that work of winning 4 straight and not advancing is unfair, but I stated that I would use that combo of opponent wins system in the OP to break scenarios like this. I must stick with the method I posted with all scenarios as I use it all for cases, not just this.

 

[goofball]

Which is why I proposed h2h record also account for tiebreakers after using opp win % a few page back. If I do go 4-0 in my remaining battles including a win over delta should advance me. I'm not really pushing this, I just want to make sure if there was any point in finishing up my battles. Also, how would the "giant tie" be handled?

Edit: Oh, I just read the last few post. Interesting. LOL. Now the dumb part! Will limitless throw the match to kill my chance of advancing...genius

Somebody make them battle so I know if I need to battle or not.

 

[tripe]

Which is why I proposed h2h record also account for tiebreakers after using opp win % a few page back. If I do go 4-0 in my remaining battles including a win over delta should advance me. I'm not really pushing this, I just want to make sure if there was any point in finishing up my battles. Also, how would the "giant tie" be handled?

The giant tie would be round robin between you, Flygon, and Delta. If a winner can't be determined within a reasonable amount of round robins, like 2-3, we'll use the point system.


Goofball will advance if, these steps happen:
1. Flygon defeats Limitless.
2. Goofball wins 4 in a row
3. Goofball wins the Round robin.

3 step process of your advancement.

 

[tripe]

Which is why I proposed h2h record also account for tiebreakers after using opp win % a few page back. If I do go 4-0 in my remaining battles including a win over delta should advance me. I'm not really pushing this, I just want to make sure if there was any point in finishing up my battles. Also, how would the "giant tie" be handled?

Edit: Oh, I just read the last few post. Interesting. LOL. Now the dumb part! Will limitless throw the match to kill my chance of advancing...genius

Somebody make them battle so I know if I need to battle or not.

Ah, If limitless loses, you're still in the running, you need that to happen lol.
If Limitless wins, both you and Flygon are done.

 

[goofball]

Oh I misread that part and sheesh man...There is an edit button bro...

 

[Limitless]

Which is why I proposed h2h record also account for tiebreakers after using opp win % a few page back. If I do go 4-0 in my remaining battles including a win over delta should advance me. I'm not really pushing this, I just want to make sure if there was any point in finishing up my battles. Also, how would the "giant tie" be handled?

Edit: Oh, I just read the last few post. Interesting. LOL. Now the dumb part! Will limitless throw the match to kill my chance of advancing...genius

Somebody make them battle so I know if I need to battle or not.

I will get the match done.

 

[Hawk Eye]

I don't see why goofball needs limitless to lose.. if limitless wins or loses, he'd (limitless) still go through. If flygon lost he'd be at 3-3 the same amount of losses goofball has.

and if goofball beats delta, delta would be at 3 losses aswell making them tied.

If goofball defeats flygon and flygon has lost to limitless then flygon is with 4 losses and is out of the game.

Leaving Iron Bullet, and Goofball who still have to battle. if goofball beats iron bullet as well then it would mean iron bullet is at 4-3 too. Leaving Goofball, Iron Bullet, and delta all tied.

So all im saying is, if limitless lost to flygon and goofball goes 4-0, all that will change is make it into a 4 way tie instead of a round robin.

 

[tripe]

I don't see why goofball needs limitless to lose.. if limitless wins or loses, he'd (limitless) still go through. If flygon lost he'd be at 3-3 the same amount of losses goofball has.

and if goofball beats delta, delta would be at 3 losses aswell making them tied.

If goofball defeats flygon and flygon has lost to limitless then flygon is with 4 losses and is out of the game.

Leaving Iron Bullet, and Goofball who still have to battle. if goofball beats iron bullet as well then it would mean iron bullet is at 4-3 too. Leaving Goofball, Iron Bullet, and delta all tied.

So all im saying is, if limitless lost to flygon and goofball goes 4-0, all that will change is make it into a 4 way tie instead of a round robin.

I'm using the same tie-breaker as your scenario, there's no way sudden death can break all of those ties easily. Head to Head wouldn't work for all scenarios and wouldn't be fair if I only broke this particular tie with H2H and the others with the sum of opponent's wins. Also if you add up the wins that Flygon's defeated would have, that sum would be 15, Goofball can gain a max of 13, inferring KD24 remains at 1 win. Delta remains at 13 no matter what. So in reality, that means Goofball needs a swing, he wins 4 in a row, and Flygon loses, thus giving him 13. If Flygon were to be defeated by Limitless, that would give Delta 13 no matter what, Goofball a max of 12, and advancing Delta no matter what happens. These kinds of tournaments have these kind of scenarios, where your fate could be left up to chance, especially if you happen to get unlucky in the beginning, which happened to Goofball.

 

[goofball]

Lol. There's no need to continue this conversation about ties and what not. I've already accepted its a dumb system, I just wanted to know if I had any chance of advancing and that got answered. Lets just drop this already cause I can't stand talking about such a flawed system!

 

[Bad Ass]

i dont understand a word of what tripe said.

 

[undisputed]

Yeah, Tripe, you're not making sense.

Head to Head wouldn't work for all scenarios and wouldn't be fair if I only broke this particular tie with H2H and the others with the sum of opponent's wins.

Head to Head works perfectly fine here because Goofball would have beaten anyone who could tie. The reason to do Tripe's point system is if Head to head doesn't work. I think a visual will help Tripe better understand. If Goofball wins all 4 matches, the best record anyone else could have (save limitless) is 4-3. In this case, Goofball would have beaten all 3 potential tied people.

Goofball (4-3) v. Delta2777 (4-3)
Goofball (4-3) v. Ironbullet (4-3)
Goofball (4-3) v. KD24 (4-3)

So why wouldn't Goofball advance?

If it were a situation like:

A v. B
B v. C
A v. C

then the point system is alright. But in this case, it honestly makes zero sense.

Edit: I'm not going to post anymore on this subject. If a visual doesn't make things clear, I don't think anything will.