Kingdra (Icy Wind)

[ShinyAzelf]

Hey C&C, edited this set. Its no longer a lead!

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/kingdra

Story: So I was in class, and I was talking to BlisseyOfDoom on Forums via VMs. I asked him if he wanted to make a lead with me, and he agreed. So we went on IRC and discussed, and it went great. Though I made the whole set, BlisseyOfDoom gave me some advice on stuff like item, nature, etc. and was generally helpful in the end, so thanks BlisseyOfDoom!

Afterschool, Belphagor asked me what lead it was. I told him it was an OU Pokemon which learned Icy Wind. He checked and I saw that Kingdra wasn't listed. I was like "OMG THIS CAN'T HAPPEN". Luckily, I found out it did learn it, and it was a move tutor move which wasn't listed as a move on Kingdra's dex. Here I am now with the set.

[SET]
name: Icy Wind
move 1: Icy Wind
move 2: Draco Meteor
move 3: Outrage
move 4: Hydro Pump
item: Life Orb
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Rash
evs: 104 Atk / 180 SpA / 224 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
- Very powerful
- Nice bulk to add along

Will do more later.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
- Stealth Rock and Spikes support is great
- Icy Wind forces switches, and switch-in takes entry hazard damage + STAB Draco Meteor
Will do more later.

Credits to: BlisseyOfDoom

 

[Aeron Ee1]

Machamp's ability works both ways. People seem to forget that all too often >_>, so Hydro Pump is guaranteed to hit it. Also, Colbur Berry Azelf has a chance of surviving through Icy Wind + DM. Don't forget to mention that Kingdra survives Timid Roserade's Leaf Storm 100% of the time as well. Your lead match-up analyses don't seem very solid.. Some wins look like losses, some losses look like wins..

EDIT: hehe..

 

[domeface]

One thing I'll say is that against Machamp leads, accuracy is no issue as No Guard increases the accuracy moves used against the No Guard user to 100% as well, so your lead always beats lead Machamp.

EDIT: Ninja'd >_>

 

[shrang]

Seems interesting. I've always been disappointed with Kingdra's relatively low power output, but if those calcs are correct, this might be usable. Just a few things:

ability: Sniper

Why not use Swift Swim?? You can abuse rain should it ever come up, and with max Speed, if it does go up, you'll outspeed most things on a typical Rain team. Sniper is more "praying for hax" to me.

move 4: Ice Beam

Do you really need Ice Beam?? If Icy Wind + Ice Beam 2HKOs Roserade, then Icy Wind + DM certainly will. I would prefer to just run Surf or Dragon Pulse as a reliable STAB move, to be honest. Other moves that could be useful may be Rain Dance, so Kingdra could set up Rain for the team or itself, or Signal Beam to kill Celebi leads with.

 

[Glimmer [old]]

This is so ironic, yet so perfect for me right now!

Other moves that could be useful may be Rain Dance, so Kingdra could set up Rain for the team or itself, or Signal Beam to kill Celebi leads with.

I was literally just planning out a rain dance team, and lo and behold, I come to Smogon for advice and find this! I didn't really want to run an Electrode lead and was struggling trying to find a Pokemon to take its place, and this could be exactly what I'm looking for.

Obviously I'd run Swift Swim though. and probably drop Ice Beam for Rain Dance to get that activated quickly.

Do you reckon that the hefty speed EV investment is really necessary if you're running icy wind?

 

[jrp]

You might want to try testing against an ambipom lead.
I've been seeing a rise in them lately, and I'm pretty sure that Fake Out + Return would KO this.

Just pointing it out.
Otherwise, it looks like it could take out most other leads.

 

[jrp]

Also, for Jirachi, if he's scarfed, jirachi can win this. He can just trick his scarf to kingdra and send in a counter.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

argh

So... here's another mediocre anti-lead with an OP consisting of severely inflated lead matchups. Reality check tiiiiiime~

Azelf: Icy wind as it SRs, and then it'll just switch out and be at basically full HP later in the game, because unSTAB Icy Wind does piss poor damage.

Machamp: Yeah, 2x Hydro Pump 2HKOs it, and No Guard guarantees their accuracy, but Machamp can just switch out. You "win", but it's only insofar as you manage to force out an anti-lead which can just come back later, so negligible advantage.

Aerodactyl: See Azelf, but Aerodactyl does slightly worse because it's weak to Icy Wind. Still manages to survive and SR, though, so "tie" with the opponent having death fodder for later.

Metagross: Hydro Pump 2HKO. It can set up SR though. "Tie" because it gets SR down and you have to gamble on 80% acc x 2 (64% chance). On top of that, it can just rock and run.

Swampert: Hydro Pump does: 46.5% - 55%, Draco Meteor does: 54.5% - 64.6%. It sets up rocks and then switches out, and Kingdra is left with -2 Special Attack against whatever comes in. "tie"

Infernape: Fake Out, then uses SR as it gets Icy Winded. Switches out with nearly full HP afterwards. Tie bordering on loss.

Heatran: It outspeeds and sets up Stealth Rock, but Hydro Pump OHKOs it. Maybe the only legitimate "win" here, because it actually has to die to set up SR. That is, unless it's Specs and just rapes you with Dragon Pulse.

Jirachi: Hydro Pump is a guaranteed 2HKO. It can set up Rocks. Again, accuracy issues, plus Jirachi can just rock and run, or it can U-turn out, etc. Tie at best, really.

Ninjask: "it's ninjask"

Roserade: Bad decision to assume that Roserade is going to attempt to Sleep, because Kingdra is commonly seen holding Lum or Chesto, making Sleep Powder an unattractive option. Roserade gets 1 layer of TSpikes down OR Leaf Storms for 79-93% while you hit back weakly, then it switches out. Roserade is free to come back later and finish the job. "tie" leaning toward loss.

Hippowdon: The most common physically defensive set takes 94.8% - 111.9% from Hydro Pump, so good chance of OHKO. Another "win", but no Hippowdon is going to stay in on this. You force it out, but Hippowdon is commonly seen on stall teams where Blissey is gonna rip this set limb from limb.

Starmie: Icy Wind + Draco = guaranteed 2HKO. I did calcs on this. Not taking Life Orb into account. Starmie hits it for 40.4% - 47.6% with TBolt or Ice Beam, eats a weak Icy Wind, and switches out. "tie" but leaning toward loss, since if you Icy Wind on turn 1, you take more damage than it does.

Dragonite: Draco Meteor = KO, forcing it out (nobody is going to keep dragonite in on a faster dragon in the lead position)

Tyranitar: Two Hydro Pumps = KO. Again, accuracy sucks =/. It gets up Rocks, and switches out. Tie

Uxie: Nothing can 2HKO it. It can trick you a Scarf, and paralyze you. Straight up loss, no way about it.

This thing manages to force a lot of leads out after it Icy Winds them, but it's hard for it to actually confirm any kills. Midgame it's interesting, but 95 Special Attack with no boosting item is kinda eh as a main attacking stat, and neutral nature 85 base Speed is also nothing amazing. Icy Wind causes it to tie with a lot of leads, and its only solid "wins" are against Hippowdon and general Anti-leads, and an anti-lead that only threatens other anti-leads is no fun at all.

QC REJECTED (1/3)

 

[Kevin Garrett]

Yeah, this is not a good lead. The threat list you have in the OP is inaccurate because all someone has to do is switch out after the drop and take little damage. What I'm wondering is how this would work if you slap Life Orb on it and run a mixed set with Outrage. I'm not sure if that would be any good, but it would have more merit than in the lead position.

 

[Curtains]

the fact that i'm relying on hydro pump hitting twice is the #1 reason not to ever use this set. Hell even resto chesto kingdra does a better job leading than this.

 

[Siegrin]

Wait, I don't see why this set should be rejected, even if the opponent. switch out, something will have to come in take two STAB attacks from Kingdra, as hardly anything can OHKO it, and the only poke that resists all of these moves is Empoleon, who in return, can't do anything to you.

 

[shrang]

I like K_G's idea. Lum Berry is only really helping against Machamp and Roserade anyway. The thing is at the moment, even with full investment in power, Kingdra can shoot a powerful STAB attack into the switch-in, but it won't hurt it enough. Kingdra who doesn't boost or use any boosting item is too weak for my liking.

 

[deinosaur]

Hey ShinyAzelf! This apparently doesn't work as well as we thought it would, but I think either one could work, really.
I think the one KG brought up would work better, with the original put in AC.

That's just my 2 cents.

 

[Megan_Fox]

The original set would get a definite no from me but I guess i could see this set working with KGs suggestion, but im still really doubtful if this should get an analysis. I'll test it before making a decision though.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

A couple notes about Life Orb:

Roserade has a legitimately high chance to OHKO Kingdra with Leaf Storm after LO Recoil, making a shaky tie into a complete loss if Roserade chooses to attack first. If you run Naughty / Mild / Naive, it's almost guaranteed that Leaf Storm will OHKO after LO Recoil. (89% minimum)
Not running Hydro Pump means you are now useless against Swampert and mostly useless against Jirachi. I'm not sure if you 2HKO Machamp with Draco Meteor, but it's still not fun times because you end up at -4 Special Attack with 0 investment physical STABs to fall back on, and you run the risk of losing to confuhax. You lose the ability to OHKO Hippowdon, instead dealing poor damage with Waterfall. You also become absolute setup fodder for stuff like Skarmory and Forretress, which will happily spike on you with ease.

Don't get me wrong, Kingdra itself is a great midgame attacker. It's just a very poor lead.

 

[Kevin Garrett]

That's what I said.

 

[shrang]

Now that you're dropping this as a lead, I'm wondering why we can't just make an AC mention in the Mixed Attacking Kingdra we have on site, or just use the DD Mixed attacker set, to be honest. They are both quite similar.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Icy Wind is about as irrelevant as it gets when Kingdra is better off going the HIT IT IN THE FACE route with something like Specs. If you Icy Wind something on the switch and then hit something with Draco Meteor or Hydro Pump, you're now down 20% of your HP due to Life Orb. Considering that Kingdra is about the least prediction-oriented Pokemon in the game (fire off a super beefy stab attack, it'll probably kill something), Icy Wind is fairly uninteresting.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Icy Wind is about as irrelevant as it gets when Kingdra is better off going the HIT IT IN THE FACE route with something like Specs. If you Icy Wind something on the switch and then hit something with Draco Meteor or Hydro Pump, you're now down 20% of your HP due to Life Orb. Considering that Kingdra is about the least prediction-oriented Pokemon in the game (fire off a super beefy stab attack, it'll probably kill something), Icy Wind is fairly uninteresting.

Pretty much sums it up about Icy Wind. It's one of those moves you really wish you could effectively use, but can't. Here, it's obviously the low base power not benefiting "straight forward" Kingdra at all. If it was a faster, more deadly sweeper that couldn't afford getting hit after the opponent switches in another Pokemon, Icy Wind could cut it.

 

[panamaxis]

Doesn't Rain Dance completely outclass Icy Wind in the large majority of cases?

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Doesn't Rain Dance completely outclass Icy Wind in the large majority of cases?

Yeah, it pretty much does.

The only thing it doesn't do is beat out a Focus Sash lead (which is what he is aiming for), as Icy Wind does damage. But this only works if the opponent doesn't switch out the lead after using Stealth Rock. In other cases, you not only get a substantial boost in Speed, but Water attacks also get a big boost by using Rain Dance. It's just that many players feel obligated to build the team around the use of weather and Icy Wind can be an attempt to avoid that. But honestly, in mid-game, you are not likely to use Icy Wind anyways.

 

[panamaxis]

The only thing it doesn't do is beat out a Focus Sash lead (which is what he is aiming for), as Icy Wind does damage. But this only works if the opponent doesn't switch out the lead after using Stealth Rock.

He changed the purpose of the set for that exact reason.

But honestly, in mid-game, you are not likely to use Icy Wind anyways.

Yeah I agree. I feel like Icy Wind has been left on there because the purpose of the set was originally as a lead but Rain Dance is really better when you aren't in the lead slot.

 

[shrang]

Doesn't Rain Dance completely outclass Icy Wind in the large majority of cases?

This is not to mention that Dragon Dance does as well.

 

[ShinyAzelf]

Yeah =/ Icy Wind is outclassed by Rain Dance. In that case, just move it to L&O.

 

[Setsuna]

So be it.

Feel free to try again in the future.