The Black Company (4th Generation OU, 4th place on TeamUber with 1680 CRE)

[Davy Jones]

The Black Company
​

Before the formation of the Black Company, most of my teams were heavily offensive. I had noticed that the most successful teams, both on the ladder and in tournaments, tended to be more balanced, so I decided to try my hand at building a balanced team, focusing on solid defensive and offensive synergy while wearing down opposing teams with Stealth Rock and Spikes in preparation for a sweep from Offensive Dragon Dance Dragonite. The resulting team is probably the most successful team I have ever created. Using it, I reached 4th place on TeamUber's leaderboard under the name of Murgen, peaking with a CRE of 1680.

Unfortunately, this team has not been nearly as successful in tournament play. The only major tournament I have used it in has been the Smogon Tournament #7, where I was eliminated in the first round. However, this is not due to weaknesses in the team, and I still believe that it can succeed in tournament play. Rather, my elimination from the Smogon Tournament #7 was due to my own mistakes as a player. I attempted to play two of my matches when I was not mentally fit to do so and paid the price. I would like to emphasize that the losses were because of my decision as a player to knowingly play important matches when I was not at the top of my game due to a severe migraine and not because there were severe flaws in the construction of the Black Company. When I was fit to play, I first battled ssbbm, my tournament opponent, on TeamUber's ladder under the name Murgen and won. I later defeated the same opponent in the first official match when I was mentally ready to play at my best. Unfortunately, TeamUber was not an official tournament server and thus I did not claim a victory even though I was the first of us to win two matches.

I do not intend to cast aspersions upon ssbbm's abilities as a player, but I believe that I could also have won the official matches if I had been at the top of my game and that my choice to play when not mentally suitable was the factor that contributed most to my early elimination.

I have now retired the Black Company, and with it myself, as I doubt that Smogon will host any more significant 4th Generation OU tournaments in the near future and TeamUber is a dying server, no longer worth laddering on. I will no longer be playing competitive Pokemon for several months at the very least.

Now that I've successfully bored you to tears with all my angst, I'll get to the part that most of you are probably reading this thread for in the first place: the Black Company itself.

Team Building


*Disclaimer: It's been a while since I built the team and I don't remember all of the steps I took when creating it. I shall attempt to replicate my thought pattern with as much detail as I can recollect.*
​

Like my last team, the Black Company focuses on opening up a sweep for Offensive Dragon Dance Dragonite. Therefore, obviously, Dragonite was guaranteed a spot on the team.

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Dragonite had a large weakness to Stealth Rock. I had two immediate solutions to this problem: invest in a Rapid Spinner or pass Wish. I chose the latter and added Wish-passing Jirachi to the team. Jirachi and Dragonite also had excellent defensive synergy and Jirachi could spread Paralysis, which Dragonite benefitted from.

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Gyarados was another sweeper I have had good results with in the past, and it could also benefit from Jirachi's Wish. Therefore, I added Bulky Dragon Dance Gyarados to the team. Gyarados did an excellent job of drawing out and wearing down Dragonite's counters.

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I had decided to use Spikes as part of the Black Company's strategy, so I looked at the four Spikes-users in OU and immediately disregarded Smeargle. I initially chose Specially Defensive Roserade, as it can spread Paralysis as well. This also left me with two thirds of a Fire-Water-Grass defensive core, so I decided to complete that.

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I selected Infernape to complete my Fire-Water-Grass defensive core and lead my team because it provided Fire-type and Fighting-type STAB and the ability to defeat several common leads.

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Finally, I needed a Ghost-type to block Rapid Spin and preserve my entry hazards, so I chose Choice Scarf Rotom-H as a way to check set-up sweepers and Trick a Choice Scarf onto stall teams.

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Jirachi really wasn't pulling its weight on the team, so I replaced it with a Wish-passing Vaporeon, which worked much more effectively with the team, as it could actually shuffle the opposing team around with Roar.

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This left me without a Steel-type Pokemon to take Dragon-type attacks, so I opted to replace Roserade, which had not been performing up to my expectations either, with Forretress, thus gaining a Rapid Spinner as well as retaining the ability to set up Spikes.

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At this point, I had only one resistance to Electric-type attacks, and very little insurance against certain set-up sweepers such as Dragonite. In addition, my team was rather slow once Rotom-h had Tricked away its Choice Scarf. To remedy this problem, I replaced Gyarados with a Choice Scarfed Flygon.

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With the removal of Gyarados, I found that my lack of access to Taunt caused me more trouble than I had thought. I made the most recent change to my team when I replaced Forretress with the Taunt-capable Skarmory, which granted me another pseudo-hazer and another check to various set-up sweepers.

Weaknesses and Resistances

In-Depth:

Elmo:

Infernape (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 64 Atk/200 Spd/244 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Fake Out
- Stealth Rock
- Close Combat
- Fire Blast
​

Name: Elmo was the sergeant of the Black Company and Croaker’s best friend. He was one of the Company’s elite soldiers and often took part in dangerous scouting missions. In a way, Infernape also serves this role, as it is the first Pokemon to engage the opponent.

Overview: Infernape serves as an impressive lead. It can almost always either set up Stealth Rock or KO the opposing lead. It also has nice Speed and decent attacking stats, along with an excellent attacking movepool and a solid offensive typing, with Fire-type and Fighting-type STAB. These attributes allow it to serve as a powerful sweeper later in the game.

EVs: I moved 8 EVs from Special Attack to Speed in order to outrun standard lead Infernape sets and sets attempting to outrun standard lead Infernape by one point.

Moves: Fake Out breaks Focus Sashes, Stealth Rock is the game’s most essential entry hazard, and Fire Blast and Close Combat provide powerful dual STAB attacks.

Synergy: Defensive synergy is questionable at best, as Infernape is quite frail. However, it can take weak Ice-type, Fire-type, Bug-type, Steel-type, Dark-type, and Grass-type attacks, covering some sort of weakness for every other member of the team.

Raven:​

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP/96 Spd/160 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Taunt
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Roost
​

Name: Raven is the guardian of the White Rose and is very difficult to kill. Skarmory is also quite difficult for physical attackers to bring down and protects the more fragile members of my team.

Overview: Skarmory is an essential member of my team and is often instrumental to my success. Skarmory’s Spikes punish switches and Skarmory can find plenty of opportunities to set them up. Taunt and Whirlwind mean Skarmory is my go-to response for Baton Pass and Trick Room teams. Roost and Whirlwind mean that Skarmory can take hits from Physical sweepers and remove them from play, then heal afterwards. Leftovers grants Skarmory extra survivability.

EVs: The HP EVs maximize overall bulk, while the 96 Speed EVs allow me to outrun minimum Speed Gyarados and standard Taunt Skarmory. The remainder of the EVs optimize Special bulk.

Moves: Taunt forces the opponent to attack and helps Skarmory set up on stall teams, as well as punishing Trick Room and Baton Pass teams. Spikes make the opponents think twice about switching recklessly, especially in conjunction with Stealth Rock. Whirlwind shuffles opposing Pokemon around and racks up damage from entry hazards. Roost extends Skarmory’s longevity, allowing it to check Physical sweepers multiple times if necessary.

Synergy: Skarmory can take most Physical attacks and many weak or resisted Special attacks. It is immune to Ground-type and Poison-type attacks, and resistant to several others, such as Ghost-type, Bug-type, and Dragon-type. Skarmory provides my only Dragon-type resistance, covering the a major weakness of Dragonite and Flygon. Skarmory’s Ghost-type resistance covers Rotom-H’s weakness, while its Grass-type resistance covers Vaporeon’s weakness. It also resists Steel-type attacks, which allows it to set up on Scizor.

Croaker:

Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 188 HP/252 Def/4 Spd/64 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Surf
- Protect
- Roar
​

Name: Croaker is the medic of the Black Company and an important part of the Company’s success. Vaporeon keeps the rest of my team healthy, shuffles opponents around to rack up entry hazard damage, and can strike back with STAB Surf when necessary.

Overview: Vaporeon’s main duty is to keep the rest of my team healthy and to shuffle the opposing team with Roar. It also serves as a way for my team to take on several Pokemon that may otherwise cause it problems, such as Mamoswine and Weavile. Vaporeon makes an excellent switch-in to Infernape and Heatran, as well as Pokemon such as Gliscor and Hippowdon.

EVs: The HP EVs reach a Leftovers number, 252 Defense EVs maximize Vaporeon's horrible Defense, while 4 Speed EVs allow it to outrun standard Vaporeon sets and Roar them away first. The remaining EVs go into Special Defense.

Moves: Wish is essential for keeping the team healthy. Protect allows Vaporeon to benefit from Wish and scout the opposing team more effectively. Surf provides a solid STAB move. Roar forces the opposing team to take more damage from entry hazards.

Synergy: Vaporeon serves as my bulky Water-type and can take Fire-type, Water-type, Ice-type, and Steel-type attacks with ease. It can easily switch in on priority attacks commonly aimed at Flygon and Dragonite, as well as Fire-type attacks aimed at Skarmory or Water-type attacks meant for Infernape. It is my primary check to Pokemon such as Weavile or Mamoswine, which have prioritized Ice-type moves capable of eliminating Flygon and Dragonite.

Silent:

Rotom-h @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Overheat
- Trick
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Name: Silent is one of the Black Company’s wizards, who has, as the name would suggest, taken a vow of silence. Silent is the most dangerous of the Black Company’s wizards, and Rotom-h is the most dangerous of the Special Attackers on my team, able to strike opponents with two solid STAB attacks and Trick a Choice Scarf onto unsuspecting opponents, crippling them.

Overview: Rotom-H is my primary check for Gyarados and Lucario, as well as my Spin-blocker. It provides me with solid resistances and extra insurance against stall teams. It also allows me to outspeed and eliminate Pokemon such as Starmie and Jolteon, which could otherwise cause me trouble. Rotom-H is a very important part of this team and has been a major contributer towards its success.

EVs: The EVs are straightforward and maximize offensive potential.

Moves: Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball provide dual STAB attacks and have decent coverage between them. Overheat provides a few essential OHKOs on troublesome Pokemon, such as Lucario, Mamoswine, Magnezone, and Forretress.

Synergy: Rotom-h is immune to Normal-type, Fighting-type, and Ground-type attacks. It can also take Steel-type, Electric-type, Bug-type, and Flying-type attacks. It is my hard counter to Scizor, Metagross and Lucario, Pokemon who are also checked by other Pokemon on my team. It can also handle Pokemon such as Jolteon and Swampert if necessary.

The Lieutenant:

Flygon (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
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Name: The Lieutenant is the second-in-command of the Black Company. Flygon parallels this role by serving as my cleaner and second Dragon-type. Flygon is often capable of mopping up a weakened team if Dragonite is KOd or if there is no opportunity for Dragonite to set up.

Overview: While it may seem odd to have two Choice Scarfed Pokemon on the same team, Flygon and Rotom-H cover very different threats. Flygon can handle dangerous Dragon-types much more effectively than Rotom-H can, and Rotom-H may Trick away its Choice Scarf earlier in the match, so Flygon sometimes serves as my only Choice Scarfed revenge killer. Flygon can switch in with ease thanks to a plethora of resistances and immunities and proceed to scout the opposing team with U-turn or strike with one of its powerful STAB attacks.

EVs: The EVs maximize Flygon's offensive abilities.

Moves: Outrage and Earthquake are mandatory STAB attacks and provide excellent coverage. U-turn is great for scouting and for hitting Pokemon that are weak to Bug-type attacks, such as Celebi and Tyranitar. Stone Edge provides super-effective coverage against threats such as Zapdos and Gyarados, while still maintaining neutral coverage against a variety of other Pokemon.

Synergy: Flygon is immune to Electric-type and Ground-type attacks, and has no problem taking Fire-type and Rock-type attacks as well. Flygon’s Electric-type immunity protects Vaporeon and Skarmory, while the Rock-type resistance protects Dragonite and the Fire-type resistance covers Skarmory’s other weakness.

The Captain:

Dragonite (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Extremespeed
- Fire Punch/Earthquake
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Name: The Captain was the leader of the Black Company and Dragonite is the focus of this team. Dragonite is often my Most Valuable Pokemon, able to sweep entire teams with STAB Outrage and a monstrous Base Attack of 134. It also has a priority attack, which compensates somewhat for a relatively low Base Speed of 80.

Overview: Dragonite has easily been my favorite OU Pokemon since Salamence went to play in Ubers, and it’s a devastating sweeper that is nearly as powerful as Salamence. The 80 Base Speed causes a lot of problems, but access to powerful priority helps alleviate this somewhat. Dragonite has solid bulk even without investment and often comes out early in the match to deal with threats such as Breloom. The weakness to Stealth Rock is unfortunate, but Wish helps to keep Dragonite in good health. The best part of this set is the surprise value, as most players expect a bulky variant and therefore lose to Dragonite’s unexpected Speed and power. Life Orb causes recoil, which can wear Dragonite down fairly quickly in conjunction with Stealth Rock, but Wish alleviates this problem somewhat.

EVs: The EVs are pretty straightforward and maximize the necessary offensive stats.

Moves: Dragon Dance enables set-up, Outrage is a devastating 120 Base Power STAB attack, Extremespeed is a priority attack that helps me defeat other users of priority or faster Choice Scarf Pokemon. It can OHKO Flygon after a Dragon Dance, provided that Flygon has switched into Stealth Rock a few times. I alternate between Earthquake and Fire Punch depending on my coverage needs. Fire Punch hits Steel-types such as Skarmory and Bronzong, while Earthquake gets rid of Heatran.

Synergy: Dragonite is immune to Ground-type attacks and has a 4x resistance to Grass-type attacks. It also resists Fire-type, Water-type, Fighting-type, and Bug-type attacks. These resistances make it an excellent Breloom counter as long as Breloom cannot put it to sleep. It also covers the weaknesses of other team members quite well.

Conclusion: ​

This has been a very solid team and I believe that it has the potential to be even more successful than it already has. It marks my retirement from competitive Pokemon, although I do not get to retire as spectacularly as I had wished. I cannot see any major flaws in the Black Company, so I submit it to the Smogon community for analysis and improvement.

Responses to Common OU Leads in Alphabetical Order:​

Green Pokemon are easily handled.
Orange Pokemon can cause problems.
Red Pokemon are massive threats.


Aerodactyl: Fake Out, use Close Combat, switch to Flygon and finish it off.

Azelf: Fake Out and Fire Blast usually KO.

Bronzong: Set up Stealth Rock and use Fire Blast.

Celebi: Set up Stealth Rock and use Fire Blast.

Dragonite: Switch to Skarmory on the Earthquake, switch to Vaporeon on the Fire Blast, Wish as it uses Draco Meteor, Protect, and switch back to Skarmory to begin setting up.

Empoleon: Fake Out and use Close Combat.

Forretress: Set up Stealth Rock and use Fire Blast.

Gliscor: Use Fire Blast as it uses Stealth Rock and then use Stealth Rock as it switches out or use Fire Blast if it is likely to stay in.

Heatran: Set up Stealth Rock and use Close Combat.

Hippowdon: Either set up Stealth Rock or switch to Skarmory and Taunt, then set up Spikes.

Infernape: Fake Out, set up Stealth Rock, and use Close Combat.

Jirachi: Use Stealth Rock as it uses Trick or U-turn.

Machamp: Fake Out, use Fire Blast, switch to Rotom-H or Vaporeon on the Bullet Punch and KO.

Mamoswine: Fake Out and use Fire Blast.

Metagross: Set up Stealth Rock and use Fire Blast.

Ninjask: Set up Stealth Rock and switch to Skarmory, Whirlwind it out.

Roserade: Fake Out and use Fire Blast if I think it will stay in, otherwise use Stealth Rock.

Skarmory: Set up Stealth Rock and use Fire Blast.

Smeargle: Use Fake Out and Close Combat.

Starmie: Fake Out, switch to Vaporeon, and switch to Rotom-H to take it out.

Swampert: Either set up Stealth Rock or switch to Skarmory and begin setting up.

Tyranitar: Either set up Stealth Rock or switch to Skarmory and begin setting up.

Weavile: Switch to Vaporeon and surf it to death.

Threat List (OU in alphabetical order):​

Green Pokemon are easily handled.
Orange Pokemon can cause problems.
Red Pokemon are massive threats.

Aerodactyl: Easily handled as a lead, Rotom-H and Flygon can take on Life Orb variants.

Azelf: Again, easily handled as a lead, Rotom-h, Flygon, and Vaporeon can handle it outside of the lead spot.

Blissey: Infernape destroys Blissey, Rotom-H can cripple it by Tricking a Choice Scarf onto it, Dragonite can hurt it with Outrage, and Skarmory can Taunt it and set up on it all day long if it doesn’t have Flamethrower.

Breloom: I hate Breloom, simply because of Spore. Once something takes the Spore, Dragonite and Rotom-H have very little trouble against it. Infernape and Flygon can also KO Breloom, but have trouble switching in.

Bronzong: Infernape has no trouble against Bronzong and Skarmory can set up on it. Rotom-H can also KO it with Overheat or its STAB moves. Dragonite can 2HKO with a boosted Fire Punch.

Celebi: Infernape and Rotom-H handle it quite well. Skarmory and Dragonite can set up on some variants. Flygon does plenty of damage with U-turn.

Dragonite: Flygon can revenge kill it, but mixed Dragonite is a problem. I generally bait it into using Draco Meteor and wear it down with Life Orb recoil. Skarmory can set up on variants without a Fire-type attack.

Dusknoir: Skarmory can set up on it, while Rotom-H eliminates it. But really, who uses Dusknoir?

Electivire: As pathetic as it is to admit, a well-played Electivire can actually cause me problems, depending on what Hidden Power it runs. If it runs Hidden Power Grass, Flygon can switch in and eliminate it. Otherwise, Rotom-H does the job. Without a boost from Motor Drive, it isn’t really a problem.

Empoleon: Empoleon is quite easy to deal with. Lead sets are easily defeated, while Vaporeon completely walls Agility SubPetaya Empoleon. Flygon and Rotom-h both pack super-effective attacks and a Choice Scarf.

Flygon: Flygon can be troublesome to face. Vaporeon can take Outrages and Surf it to death if it’s at decent health, Skarmory resists Outrage, and my own Flygon can Speed tie it if necessary. Dragonite has Extremespeed, but it needs a Dragon Dance boost and some residual damage to OHKO.

Forretress: I have several Pokemon on my team that can defeat Forretress, but it can still cause problems with hazards and Rapid Spin. Infernape, Dragonite, and Rotom-H all pack Fire-type attacks to get rid of it.

Gengar: Rotom-H can eliminate it with some prediction, Flygon and Vaporeon can get rid of it, and Dragonite can set up on it if it gets a free switch-in. However, dealing with Gengar almost always requires some prediction and somewhat risky switching.

Gliscor: Gliscor is an annoyance more than anything. It is difficult for my Physical attackers to break through and can render Skarmory useless with Taunt. Vaporeon has super-effective STAB Surf to use on it, while Infernape and Rotom-H can retaliate with STAB Fire Blast and Shadow Ball, respectively. Rotom-H can also Trick it a Choice Scarf and Dragonite can set up on it and proceed to decimate it with a boosted Outrage.

Gyarados: Rotom-H and Flygon are my main checks to Dragon Dance variants. Skarmory can set up on RestTalk variants. Vaporeon can also Roar away sets without Taunt. However, with my checks weakened, Gyarados can easily sweep my team.

Heatran: Vaporeon switches into Heatran easily, while Dragonite and Flygon can OHKO with Earthquake. Infernape can also remove Heatran with a super-effective STAB Close Combat.

Hippowdon: Skarmory renders Hippowdon useless with Taunt. Vaporeon can KO it with Surf. Rotom-H can cripple it with Trick.

Infernape: Vaporeon serves as an excellent counter. Flygon can revenge kill it and Dragonite can switch in and use Extremespeed.

Jirachi: Jirachi is annoying, mostly due to Serene Grace. Infernape and Flygon both have STAB moves to eliminate it, and Dragonite has the coverage move of choice. Vaporeon and Skarmory can both soak up Iron Head all day long. Jirachi is marked as a problematic Pokemon more because Iron Head flinch-hax can run through any team with enough luck.

Jolteon: Jolteon can destroy my team with correct prediction. Dragonite can use Extremespeed to remove weakened Jolteon as long as it can obtain a safe switch-in. Flygon can decimate Jolteon with Earthquake, but must switch in safely. Rotom-H can use Shadow Ball, but must avoid Jolteon’s Shadow Ball. Infernape can remove it if its Focus Sash is still intact.

Kingdra: Kingdra really isn’t a problem. Flygon, Rotom-H, and Dragonite can revenge kill Kingdra, while Vaporeon can take Outrage and heal with Wish or Roar it away.

Lucario: Rotom-H counters Swords Dance Lucario. If necessary, Dragonite can take an Extremespeed and retaliate with a super-effective coverage move. Agility Lucario is easy to remove with Vaporeon.

Machamp: Infernape and Rotom can usually handle Machamp. Dragonite can KO weakened Machamp, but Dynamicpunch with perfect accuracy is really annoying.

Magnezone: Traps Skarmory, but four other team members outspeed and carry super-effective moves.

Mamoswine: Annoying to Dragonite and Flygon, but the rest of the team can either eliminate it or set up on it.

Metagross: Metagross is not a problem since Rotom-H counters it

Ninjask: Ninjask is easily Taunted and shuffled away with Roar or Whirlwind.

Roserade: Sleep Powder can cause problems. Dragonite can set up on versions without Stun Spore or Hidden Power Ice. Flygon can weaken it with U-turn and eliminate it with Outrage. Infernape outspeeds and OHKOs with Fire Blast.

Rotom-C: Rotom-C is easily eliminated. Dragonite resists Leaf Storm. Rotom-H can KO it with Shadow Ball.

Rotom-F: Rotom-F is handled the same way as the other Rotom formes.

Rotom-H: Overheat doesn’t really make it more of a threat to my team.

Rotom-S: Who really uses this thing? On the extremely rare occasions I see it, I deal with it the same way I deal with the other Rotom formes.

Rotom-W: Vaporeon can use Water Absorb to take Hydro Pump from Scarf or Specs versions. Rotom-H eliminates it with Shadow Ball, and Flygon can KO offensive variants with Outrage.

Scizor: Skarmory sets up on it, Rotom-H counters it, Vaporeon can defeat it.

Shaymin: Skarmory sets up on it, Infernape gets rid of it quite easily, Dragonite can set up on it without Hidden Power Ice, and Rotom-H has Overheat.

Skarmory: Infernape and Rotom-H have super-effective STAB attacks and Dragonite can handle it with Fire Punch. My Skarmory can Taunt opposing Skarmory and set up on them.

Smeargle: Infernape gets rid of lead Smeargle. Just about everything else can get rid of it somehow. Choice Scarf Smeargle may get a Spore in or something.

Snorlax: Skarmory walls it and can Taunt it in order to prevent it from healing or Cursing. Infernape and Dragonite have powerful Physical attacks with which to eliminate it.

Starmie: Starmie can cause me a lot of problems with proper prediction. I usually use Vaporeon to switch in Rotom-H or Flygon and remove it with a STAB attack or U-turn. Dragonite’s Extremespeed can also KO weakened Starmie.

Suicune: Vaporeon can Roar it away and Rotom-H can Trick it or strike with a super-effective STAB Thunderbolt.

Swampert: Skarmory sets up on it and Vaporeon can hit it with STAB Surf. Spikes also wear Swampert down.

Tentacruel: Rotom-H has Thunderbolt and Flygon has Earthquake.

Togekiss: Annoying more due to Serene Grace than anything else, Togekiss is easily removed by Rotom-H. Like Jirachi, Togekiss is listed as problematic because Serene Grace and flinch-hax can destroy just about everything.

Tyranitar: Skarmory walls it and can set up or Whirlwind it away. Vaporeon can take an attack and retaliate with STAB Surf. Flygon can damage it with U-turn and Earthquake. Infernape also has Close Combat.

Umbreon: I rarely see this, but Infernape can use Close Combat and Taunt renders it useless.

Vaporeon: Rotom-H has Thunderbolt, my own Vaporeon can switch in, and Skarmory can set up on it.

Weavile: Vaporeon walls it completely.

Zapdos: Zapdos isn’t a problem without Hidden Power Ice. Flygon strikes with Stone Edge, Rotom-H has neutral STAB attacks, and Infernape outspeeds it and takes chunks of its HP with STAB Fire Blast.

* If you wish to use this team, please contact me. In addition, feel free to contact me with any additional questions. *

 

[AB2]

Hi, this is a very solid team and it looks like you have had some success with it as well. When reading through this team, I notice that you have almost everything covered quite nicely; however I do notice a few minor issues. The common combination of Swords Dance Lucario [adamant variants espeically] + tyranitar are bound to give you some trouble. With your only good check to Adamant SD Lucario being Scarf Rotom, a choiced Tyranitar can easily pursuit you away and Lucario is free to set up a few of your pokemon. It will be quite easy to fix this problem though. I encourage you to try Bulky Roost DD Nite just to give you some more insurance against Lucario, as between Scarf Rotom and DD Nite you will have Lucario checked.

Dragonite @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Adamant 252 HP | 52 Atk | 204 Def Inner Focus
Dragon Dance | Dragon Claw | Earthquake | Roost

From the looks of your team, you will have a little bit of trouble breaking Sub + Roost Zapdos. It can stall Flygon out of stone edges if played correctly [plus you are bound to miss at least one stone edge]. Other than that it can Toxic or Thunderbolt your entire team wearing it down for another sweeper to come in and finish you off. A small suggestion to fix this would be to simply consider Toxic over Stone Edge on Flygon. Even though this may seem silly, if you predict correctly, Zapdos will be easily stalled out by toxic poison. Finally, I would suggest that you run Hidden Power Electric over Roar on your Vaporeon. Although phazing an annoying Suicune out is nice, the extra insurance against Gyarados is really good to have if you decide to run Toxic on Flygon. With correct play I think you should be able to deal with Suicune anyways.

Not much else to say about this team, it is really quite solid and congrats on the success you have had with it. Good Luck!

 

[Smith]

Hey I got your message, this team is pretty cool and obviously works pretty well. The only gripe I have is with Rotom + Flygon. Usually what happens when you run dual scarfers is that (a) you produce some redundancies in exactly which threats they cover (check), and (b) in providing so much glue against offensive threats, stall teams have a much easier time against you (check). The only member of this team that has the potential to really mess up stall is Skarmory, but even then Forry can come in for free and just spin away your spikes, using payback in this repetitive process until Rotom is fainted and you're without hazards. Thus my suggestion would be to use a new set for Flygon, either one will work great and it's really a matter of preference.
Flygon @ Life OrbnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnFlygon @ Life Orb
80 Atk / 252 SpAtk / 176 Spennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
NaivennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnJolly
-Draco Meteornnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn-Screech
-Earthquakennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn-Earthquake
-Fire Blastnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn-Stone Edge
-Roostnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn-U turn
___
Let's start off on how these sets are similar. First, they obviously are not the scarf set. Instead, these are both powerful wall breakers that can use the popularity of the scarf set to their advantage and that tear apart stall. The fun part is that Flygon and Dragonite share most of their counters, so people will switch in their Skarmory or Gyarados or whatever into this, only to have it killed, paving the way for an eventual Dragonite sweep (which is the purpose of the team, yes?) Which one you use boils down to preference. The mixed set has recovery as well as perfect coverage, but you may find that it just doesn't hit hard enough. The Screech set lacks recovery and hits powerfully, but also takes a turn of set up that, granted, will then allow it to demolish what switches in or what is already in. It's mostly up to you, you can try both or just choose one, they will both operate in the same niche on your team.

That's all the advice I have, cool team. I hope this helps!

 

[Aerrow]

Hello, this seems to be an excellent team you have here, as demonstrated by its success on TU's ladder (congrats). First of all, I'm going to second the suggestion of bulky dragon dance Dragonite as it will undoubtedly help against adamant Lucario variants. Also, as Smith has said, stall teams will tend to cause problems, especially if they carry a taunt user like bulky Gyarados which will shut down Skarmory, your main check to said stall teams. You could try Smith's suggestion of life Orb Flygon, but I think choice scarf Flygon is necessary on this team as it ensures your team isn't beaten by the ever common Scizor + Gyarados combo (which breaks through you second Gyarados check, Rotom).

Instead, I think a change in your lead would be worth testing; switching Infernape and Skarmory and replacing their sets with the lum berry Skarmory set and the Physically-Based Infernape set, would, as I see it, help both your weakness to stall teams as well as help you start of the battle with a higher level of momentum. Skarmory plays magnificently as a lead as with a combination of taunt and a lum berry, it is easily able to defeat many of today's common leads; while Skarmory takes care of the lead position, Infernape will be able to help with opposing stall strategies while also sharing great offensive synergy with Dragonite, each helping to remove each others counters and checks.

 

[R.B.G.]

(Rate at request) Hai guy,

Very solid team you've got here, it actually looks a lot like one of my old ones: (http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78114).

My first nitpick was the positions of Infernape and Skarmory (Aerrow ninja'd me). Personally, I think you should lead with Lum Berry Skarmory, and switch Infernape to either a mixed or physical variant in order to help out your DDNite.

Being part Flying is more of a curse than a blessing, with the everpresent Stealth Rocks and whatnot. The fact that your Dragonite also has Life Orb means that it isn't so durable, even with Vaporeon. On my 4th gen leaderboard team (in the link about) that is so similar to yours, I noticed that DDNite didn't have as many chances to set up as it could've, due to rocks and recoil.

Sorry if this rate is a bit subpar, I'll try to fix it as thoughts come to mind. Have a nice day.

 

[Davy Jones]

First off, thank you all for the compliments and the very nice rates. All of your rates were informative and I'll certainly take your comments into account since I'm considering playing in the Smogon Premiere League and I want to see if I can get some tournament success with this team before retiring completely.

First, most of you commented about Dragonite's lack of durability, and I've noticed that as well while using this team. Bulky Dragon Dance Dragonite is a very interesting idea and I think that the extra durability will be very helpful. The only real problem I have with the idea is that if I make that change, I will lack priority, so any suggestions as to how I could maintain a priority attack would be appreciated. I'll also miss the immediate offensive presence that Outrage provides, but if I switch to a bulky Dragonite, I'll probably have more than one Dragon Dance set up before trying to sweep anyway so it's not too big of a deal.

Switching the position of Infernape and Skarmory sounds like a good idea, but it does raise a few questions: which move should I switch for Brave Bird so Machamp leads don't walk all over me, and where should I have Stealth Rock? Should I keep it on Infernape and simply switch Fake Out for a different move, and if so, what? I could retain priority by using Mach Punch, gain scouting ability with U-Turn, or gain extra insurance against Flying-type Pokemon with Stone Edge.

Finally, I don't really like the idea of removing Flygon's Choice Scarf. It leaves me more vulnerable to several things I use Flygon as a primary or secondary check for, especially offensive variants of Dragonite with a Fire-type move, which can blow past Skarmory and aren't OHKOd by Rotom-H's attacks. If the opponent has a Magnezone with which to remove Skarmory, I'm in even more trouble without Flygon's Choice Scarf. It also makes Jolteon a very real threat, as Jolteon with Hidden Power Ice and Shadow Ball will be able to severely damage my team, and that is the main reason I don't like this suggestion very much.

TL;DR version:
1: Bulky Dragonite looks interesting and I'll try it out, but it leaves me without a priority attack.
2: I will switch the positions of Infernape and Skarmory, but this leaves me with a few changes to make in certain moveslots.
3: I don't want to remove Flygon's Choice Scarf because this will create a significant weakness to Life Orb Jolteon.

 

[BKC]

Hey, nice team! I think I played it once on TU's ladder, and from what I remember, it was kind of hard for you to kill my Skarm, mainly because your Rotom was open to trapping from my Scarftar. So for this reason, I'm gonna back up Smith's suggestions of MixGon/ScreechGon over your Scarfer.

I don't think you're as weak to Scarftar+Lucario as AB2 says, mainly because pretty much all Lucarios paired up with Scarftar are Adamant, which unsuspectingly get outrun and KO'd by your Dragonite. So I think you're fine there, although bulky Dragonite couldn't hurt.

Anyways solid team, when we played (or at least i think it was this team lol) it gave me a hell of a time, good luck!

 

[The Grand Babido]

Hey Davy Jones, I got your PM.

This is actually an incredibly solid team and I can easily see why you have had so much success with it.

Firstly I strongly disagree with the idea of switching Infernape and Skarmory's roles. As a lead Infernape can pick up a lot of momentum and I want to suggest something on it to improve Dragonite's sweeping chances. Skarmory is a lead that everyone is prepared for and in this day and age Metagross and Swampert leads are not common. You will be surprised how long Infernape can last if you play it correctly and how much of an asset it can be mid-game. The move I would like to suggest on Infernape is Endeavour. Endeavour would be an amazing move on your Infernape as because of its lowly defenses it is often reduced to 1 HP. When at 1 HP, Infernape can use Endeavour to reduce an opponents Pokemon to 1 HP. Common Infernape switchins are Gyarados, Suicune, Vaporeon and Scarf Flygon who are all pretty huge obstacles in the way of a Dragonite sweep. By reducing them to 1 HP they will no longer stand in your way. I suggest removing Fake Out for Endeavour; Fake Out is primarily for Roserade leads who will generally switch out of an Infernape lead as 90% of them use Fake Out + Fire Blast.

Another reason to not change their positions is because nothing on your team can really handle Kingdra's assaults outside of Skarmory. While Rotom-H and Flygon can come in and revenge it, they have a very hard time switching in. Personally I would run an Impish nature on Skarmory so you can use Spikes vs. Scarf Tyranitar, Kingdra and Metagross more comfortably, but that is a matter of preference.

Finally, have you thought about Calm Mind + Wish Jirachi over Vaporeon. Vaporeon's main utilities come in its ability to beat Suicune, Flygon, Gyarados, Infernape and Heatran. While Jirachi is complete Heatran bait, you have Flygon, Infernape and Dragonite who can weather most of Heatran's assaults. Calm Mind Jirachi is able to beat all variants of Suicune [outside of certain luck factors] and Flygon, Gyarados and Infernape are handled nicely by the rest of your team. From your description you seemed quite keen to have some sort of Wish passer on your team and I think Jirachi could fit quite nicely over Vaporeon. The main reason is because you have a pretty dire SubRoost Zapdos and unless Zapdos is running a heap of SpAtk EVs and Heat Wave, Jirachi will win against the Substitute version comfortably. Another thing you could try is Blissey over Vaporeon as that can also pass Wish, check Suicune and takes on Zapdos nicely. Just some food for thought, good luck!

 

[Davy Jones]

First of all, I'd like to say thank you to the new raters.

I've been kind of busy and haven't really had time to test anything in depth, but after a few games I've noticed that Skarmory really hasn't worked too well as a lead. The prevalence of Heatran and Azelf with Fire Blast make it somewhat difficult to set up quickly. Heist recommended an Endeavor Infernape set to cripple common Dragonite counters, so I'm going to try that out. It will also give me something more to use against stall. Heist also noticed that Skarmory gives me some extra insurance against Kingdra, so I don't want to risk it too early in the game.

I'm going to try a Bulky Roost Dragonite, since I don't think priority is going to be a pressing need with the added bulk. I have enough Fire-type attacks on the rest of my team, so I'm going to go with Earthquake as my coverage move.

I'm gonna back up Smith's suggestions of MixGon/ScreechGon over your Scarfer.

The main reason I don't want to switch to mixed or Screech Flygon is because it opens up a massive Jolteon weakness.

I don't think you're as weak to Scarftar+Lucario as AB2 says, mainly because pretty much all Lucarios paired up with Scarftar are Adamant, which unsuspectingly get outrun and KO'd by your Dragonite. So I think you're fine there, although bulky Dragonite couldn't hurt.

A +2 Extremespeed from an Adamant Lucario will do 71.8% - 84.5% damage to my current Dragonite, which has a high chance to KO after Stealth Rock. It does 60.1% - 70.7% to a 252 HP/0 Def Dragonite, so I do have problems with Lucario that switching to a bulkier Dragonite set might help solve.

I'm going to test Toxic on Flygon, since I recall a few times when Toxic might have helped me quite a bit. I'll also replace Vaporeon's Roar with Hidden Power Electric so that I have a better chance against Gyarados. I already have Skarmory to shuffle the opposing team, so Roar on Vaporeon isn't critical.

Finally, Wish + Calm Mind Jirachi seems like an interesting replacement for Vaporeon, since it will certainly patch up my SubRoost Zapdos weakness. Using it would make it harder to remove Heatran, but Bulky Dragonite should help with that. If I don't like using Bulky Dragonite, I can always just switch Fire Punch to Earthquake in order to outrun and OHKO unsuspecting Heatran.

Thanks again for all the rates.

 

[ssbbm]

A +2 Extremespeed from an Adamant Lucario will do 71.8% - 84.5% damage to my current Dragonite, which has a high chance to KO after Stealth Rock. It does 60.1% - 70.7% to a 252 HP/0 Def Dragonite, so I do have problems with Lucario that switching to a bulkier Dragonite set might help solve.

Adamant Lucario outspeeds most Dragonite, so they could CC, which I assume KOes 252 HP Dragonite...

 

[hoiboy]

Not without SR up
+2 Adamant Lucario w 252 Atk/252 Spd

vs. The Captain
Damage Per Hit: 259 - 306 / 79.9% - 94.4% (Number of Hits: 1)
Critical Hit Chance: 6.3%
Chance to Hit: 99.6%
Base Attack Power: 120
Guaranteed OHKO w/ SR.

vs. 252 HP Dragonite
Damage Per Hit: 259 - 306 / 67.1% - 79.3% (Number of Hits: 1)
Critical Hit Chance: 6.3%
Chance to Hit: 99.6%
Base Attack Power: 120
Fair chance for OHKO there w/ SR.

And nope, Adamant Lucario doesn't outspeed this Dragonite, but it will outspeed Bulky variants.
Lucario hits 279 speed with 252 Spd, +nature/252 Spd Dragonite trolls it with 284

Anyways, this thread is rather old :/
@Davy Jones: Black Company <3