Rain Is OP? Why do I keep losing? (RMT)

[Browners]

The Team at a glance:

Specs Politoed

Tank-O-Bell Bronzong

SD Poison Heal Gliscor

Cleric Eviolite Chansey

Scarfed Rotom-W

SD Lucario



OK, so here goes, my first thread.
I made a Rain team, focusing on type synergy and rain abuse. I know you might call it "Nooby" or "Whore-y" or "Unoriginal" but I use this predominantly on PO (Pokemon Online Battle Simulator) where the environment is play to win as opposed to "Mucking about with you're mates on Wifi". I am also an intermediate battler; I have the knowledge, but not the experience. That's why I need YOU to rate my team ;).

As it's my first thread, If i have broken any rules or done anything wrong at all, please point it out politely, and I'll change it in a heartbeat as it is almost definitely not deliberate.

So here goes...

Shizzle (Politoed) (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Focus Blast

Of course Politoed is on here, what more is there to say? It's just the standard Specs set, we all know how it works, you've all seen it PLENTY of times before. And it actually works pretty darn well as an attacking lead. The general idea here is to fire off as many powerful Hydro Pumps as possible, unless HPump is resisted pretty much. The other moves are purely for coverage purposes. Perhaps the unsung hero of this team, it can take down the mighty Tyranitar with just two blows with H-Pump, or OHKO with Focus Blast and have to switch out when a resistance comes in. It also cannot be OHKO'd back. Another thing worthy of note is that it is slower than the vast majority of Ninetails sets, meaning it is your rain that will be up in the first turns of battle, forcing a switch, which means the battle will be in your favor right from the get-go.

After you have won the "Weather War", This little guy can serve as sleep fodder, switch fodder, any kind of fodder imaginable! As useful as he is, to quote MTGXerxes: "It's always important to know which of you're pokes is least valuable to you" and to quote Faladran "Sac-ing a pokemon is one of the best ways to regain momentum"

Oh yeah another thing of note, this 'toed's HPump is stronger than latios' draco meteor. Yes you heard right, this old NU poke just outdamaged an ex-uber.

Bro'z Dong (Bronzong) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earthquake

Aaaah Thunderus, how you troll standard so. Well say hello to Bronzong under rain. It has no weaknesses when the heavens are open. Yes, I know HP ice won't do much, and Yes, I know Gyro Ball is resisted but the main thing that makes me want to scream when i see that stupid, tentacle, genie, whipped cream head is prankster T-Wave, sub and NP. T-Wave? Thanks for the Gyro Ball Boost! Sub? What you doing? Have SOME O DAT! Gyro ball/HP Ice!
All joking aside, Bronzong is a beast in rain, setting up rocks and destroying Excadrill, Gliscor and Landorus, as well as a lot of mixed attackers that Bliss and Gliscor can't handle. It can take hits time and time again from a variety of attackers and hit back with a very powerful Gyro Ball indeed. It has EQ for the sneaky E-Vire/Heatran/Magnezone that switches in to try and rain (haha get it) on my parade. Apart from that, under rain, its a Pokemon with 0 weaknesses, 8 resistances, an immunity to one of the most common moves in the game (Ground type, EQ/Earth Power).
It has excellent mixed defenses and can take on dragons of any variant. It's simply brilliant.

Edit: Bronzong is kinda dead weight thanks to excadrill being dealt with by gliscor as well as set up sweepers like thundurus and latias being stalled out by chansey with toxic.

CountVonCunt (Gliscor) (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Facade
- Protect

The 2nd of my defensive/tanking trio, it also is immune to ground types, but unlike Bronzong, is immune to electric type attacks. This, coupled with a resistance to fighting, monstrous Defense that needs little investment, and Poison Heal make it one of the best things to switch in to a physical attacker. If the physical attacker has Ice Punch or Waterfall, Gliscor can easily scout for it with protect and go in to Bronzong. Yes it's a very obvious play but what are they going to do to Bronzong in the rain? Gliscor and Bronzong serve to be a solid counter to anything that contains the word physical, most notably sand rush Excadrill, which can do nothing against either of these dudes.

As well as tanking hits, this Gliscor can also sweep. The combination of SD, Poison Heal and Protect make this dude hard to stop a setup once the threat of water and ice is out of the way. A stab Earthquake and boosted Facade without the consequences of using it on a Guts Pokemon, is resisted only by few, notably levitating/resisting steel types. Whenever I use this guy, a late-game setup is usually an easy +4 or a +6.

A final note, if you do not understand the reference in terms of his nickname, you have not experienced childhood. Or Google "Count Von Count" and proceed to go "Oooooh yeeaaaah!"

Sooory (Chansey) (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Aromatherapy
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic

Aaah, a face only a mother could love. It's certainly not loved by the players! The reason Chansey and Bliss are so frustrating is because they pretty much stop all special sweepers dead. Even if they're Specs. Although she is not as good this generation due to the omnipresent move Psyshock and the sheer power of the new Pokemon, she can take even boosted special hits like it's her day job, and when she's on my team, sponging hits is exactly that.

Why are you using her then? Well while rain is a massive help, it also means Gliscor is effectively 4x weak to Water as well as Ice. Physically, Bronzong can handle it, as well as Rotom and Politoed resisting them. But neither of these can handle the ENORMOUS power that is a Hydro Pump or a Surf in the rain, whether it's coming off a Starmie, a Latios or any other water type, but my GOD this Chansey can take it.

The moveset is pretty much designed for helping the team as much as possible. The reason for using Heal Bell over Wish is that, status is a BIG problem on my team. Gliscor, Bronzong and Lucario are all immune to toxic, but it prevents Chansey from being toxic stalled, pretty much the enemy's last hope of taking her down. Rotom won't like toxic either. T-Wave RUINS Rotom and Lucario, and you wouldn't think it, but the possibility of Parahax on Chansey make her kinda crappy too. But by far the status that plagues my team the most is burn. It shuts Lucario down like the off button on my laptop, hampers Bronzong by way of its attacks bar HP Ice and through residual damage. Rotom and chansey don't appreciate losing 1/8th of their precious HP at the end of every turn. In short, heal bell is essential.
Its a hard struggle between Cleric Support and Wish support. In the end I chose Cleric but I really do miss the lack of recovery, especially on Bronzong.
What do you think?

Together, as a trio, Chansey, Gliscor and Bronzong can pretty much take on any offensive threat thrown at them that isnt set up to above +3 something. Thunderus is an issue, but predction and a possible ban of the troll to ubers and it'll be me that's doing the trolololololing.
Forget SkarmBlissCress, Meet ChansCorZong :)

Washed Up (Rotom-W) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Trick

OK, so I have a Core, I have a lead, I now need some offense :)
Woo!
Yey!
No more boring stall!
Awesome!
But that's enough Pokemon anime quoting, time to meet Rotom Wash!
He pairs up with rain like Penn pairs with Teller and is my main answer to stall by way of Trick and Hydro Pump's Awesome power with STAB. Think about it, 120 bp plus STAB goes to 180. boosted in rain = 270. SAY WUT! and all of that coming off 339 Special attack? Well damn. Could someone tell me what does more to Thunderus out of H-Pump and HP ice? Either way it's gonna hurt something.

EV's and nature are standard on a scarfed set, as my policy with choiced Pokemon is to boost the nature between speed and (Sp)Attack that the choice item does not. Unless you have a reason, i.e. outspeeding a certain threat. That make sense?

I hate to not go in to much detail, but the moveset is.... yep, yoooooooooouuu guessed it.... Standard.
-Volt Switch for scouting/pseudo BoltBeam
-Hydro Pump for power greater-than-or-equal-to Chuck Norris
-HP Ice for pseudo Boltbeam and general coverage
-Trick for rendering walls useless

This guy is a monster in rain, and hits things like Skarmory and Gliscor that stop a Lucario sweep dead. Not much else to say really, and it's getting late so I'll make this next one quick...

Bad In Bed (Lucario) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Steadfast
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- ExtremeSpeed
- Swords Dance
- Hi Jump Kick
- Crunch

Basically the thought process was that i needed a team mate for Rotom. It needed Priority to get rid of any shenanigans where an enemy sweeper outspeeds the team. It needed to be physically based, to pair well with Rotom and break down special walls/tanks such as Latias, Reuniclus, Blissey and Ferrothorn. It also needed to be capable of pulling off a mid-late game sweep. It preferably also needed to benefit from rain.
Lucario pulls this off with aplomb. His Extreme Speed got a buff this Generation, being able to always hit first over Mach Punch or Bullet Punch. As well as Extreme Speed being 80 base power, which makes up for lack of STAB. Lucario can defeat most special walls through each of its coverage moves, most notably Ferrothorn which would otherwise be an issue thanks to rain. It can sweep once it's counters are eliminated (easily by rotom) with so little effort it is unreal. Benefits from rain? You bet, its 2x weakness to fire is eliminated, and its weakness to ground and fighting are easily covered by Gliscor.

The Trick with this set is to send in Lucario on something threatened out, set up an SD and sweep with Extreme Speed. You can predict a Latias switch and go for Crunch right off the bat, but you can probably live a dragon pulse unboosted, bare in mind though that Latias can easily OHKO you if it isn't the Mono-Attacking set. You can easily outspeed and kill Reuniclus and Ferrothorn after 1 and 2 boosts respectively with Crunch for Reuniclus and Hi Jump Kick for Ferrothorn.

At the moment I'm running a LO set with an Adamant nature but i could just as easily run Lefties and/or a Jolly nature.


Aditional comments and possibilities:

Vaporeon could work well over Chansey as it can take Ice and Water attacks that Gliscor can't take, as well as getting a new ability through dream world called hydration that cures its status in the rain. However Heal Bell + Hydration is an illegal type combination.

Empoleon could work well over Bronzong as it has PERFECT synergy with Gliscor and can deal with pretty much all non EQ Dragons. (which Gliscor can handle).

Thundurus could be used over Rotom to be able to set up and sweep with relative ease, although it would mean I have no user of Choice Scarf.

Forretress could be used on my team over Bronzong as it benefits from rain and can Set up hazards as well as spin.

Scarfed Starmie could be used over Rotom with access to BoltBeam, a powerful Hydro Pump and superior speed



Threats:

Alot of Bulky waters cause me problems as the only moves I have against them are HP Grass (Politoed) and Volt Switch (Rotom)

Entry Hazards are a problem as I have no spinner and nothing to stop them being set up

Thunurus is a big problem as it can setup on pretty much all my guys, except Politoed and Rotom which are easily KO'd.

Ferrothorn deals an ENORMOUS amount to Lucario through Iron Barbs, as well as benefiting from rain.

Gengar is immune to Blissey's Seismic Toss and her possible Toxic. Blissey being my only dedicated special wall.

Jellicent could be a problem, although Lucario has Crunch, it will almost always burn Lucario. After that, it walls my whole team.

What do you think?



So that's my team! Any mistakes/typos or ANYTHING just mention it below and i will fix it ASAP :) Thanks for reading!

One last note, if there is a resounding agreement in the comments, am i alowed to change something or will I have to post a new thread?

 

[Browners]

The images don't seem be working for me, is it happening for you guys too?
Please tell me how to fix it :)

 

[Browners]

Image Issue's sorted. Thank you google XD

 

[GtM]

I'm not sure you really need Gliscor, since Bronzong deals with Excadrill nicely. If I were you, I'd replace Gliscor with Ferrothorn, running a set of Spikes / Leech Seed (or Thunder Wave) / Power Whip / Gyro Ball with the standard EVs in the analysis. Whilst it doesn't have the capacity to sweep like Gliscor, it has much better initial offense and provides hazard support for the team. Not to mention in the rain its crippling Fire weakness is reduced to the point where it can take HP Fires if necessary.

Since Ferrothorn is also a good special wall thanks to his typing, you probably don't need Blissey that much either. If you want a dedicated cleric, then Vaporeon is probably worth running instead, with a set of Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Heal Bell / Rest with Hydration (instantly heals status from opponents or Rest in Rain) and specially defensive EVs (unless you need it to take a specific physical attack)

If you don't need a cleric, I'd highly recommend running Thundurus in Blissey's spot, since it's THE Rain abuser. Nasty Plot / Thunder / Focus Blast / HP Ice can sweep most teams once its check (usually only one) is gone.

 

[Browners]

I'm not sure you really need Gliscor, since Bronzong deals with Excadrill nicely. If I were you, I'd replace Gliscor with Ferrothorn, running a set of Spikes / Leech Seed (or Thunder Wave) / Power Whip / Gyro Ball with the standard EVs in the analysis. Whilst it doesn't have the capacity to sweep like Gliscor, it has much better initial offense and provides hazard support for the team. Not to mention in the rain its crippling Fire weakness is reduced to the point where it can take HP Fires if necessary.

Since Ferrothorn is also a good special wall thanks to his typing, you probably don't need Blissey that much either. If you want a dedicated cleric, then Vaporeon is probably worth running instead, with a set of Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Heal Bell / Rest with Hydration (instantly heals status from opponents or Rest in Rain) and specially defensive EVs (unless you need it to take a specific physical attack)

If you don't need a cleric, I'd highly recommend running Thundurus in Blissey's spot, since it's THE Rain abuser. Nasty Plot / Thunder / Focus Blast / HP Ice can sweep most teams once its check (usually only one) is gone.

I like the idea of Ferro+Vap+Zong.
If i have those 3 should i then replace rotom with Thunderus?
Also, as I said it's my first thread, have I done everything correctly?

 

[GtM]

Yeah, the thread's fine. Although you might want to six sprites of your team in a row at the top section of your thread so people can see a quick overview without scrolling down. A list of well-known threats to your team is also helpful for other raters.

And yeah, if you want to keep that defensive core then replacing Rotom-W with Thundurus might be a good idea. Whilst Thundurus isn't as fast, it can break apart unprepared teams once you get rid of stuff like Jirachi and Gastrodon, and faster pokemon.

 

[-Tsunami-]

Hey dude.
Nice team.

On Scizor though, a spread of 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Speed with a Jolly Nature would work better. Max speed allows you to outspeed wall variants of Heatran and all Magnezone. It also outspeeds wall Celebi and Jirachi. Also, change the item to Life Orb for more power.

On Blissey, I would recommend Toxic over Heal Bell. Heal Bell will undo the effects of Toxic Orb on Gliscor, which could be a problem. Toxic can let you beat dangerous sweepers such as Thundurus and Calm Mind Latias. Without Toxic, Blissey will basically just be set up fodder.

Other than that, your team seems solid :)

 

[JellyOs]

Gliscor is not quite redundant with Zong but I think your team seriously needs a spinner. Try out a LO Starmie with Hydro Pump, Thunder, Recover, and Rapid Spin. It out speeds Thunderus too ;)

 

[Milking the Tank]

I was just going to suggest a Spinner, but it seems that JellyOs had beaten me to it. You could and can try out Forretress, Tentacruel, or any other variety of Spinners. Forretress, I recommend, due to it's high defense stat and being able to lay out entry hazards like Spikes and Toxic Spikes. Or, you could find a pokemon that lays out Toxic Spikes, but yet, also is immune to it: Tentacruel.

Or, you can use Blissey's signature partner, Skarmory. But, it's up to you.

EDIT: Instead of using Blissey as a Special Wall, you can use a Chansey w/ Eviolite for even better SpD or a Dusclops w/ Eviolite for a more balanced Def & SpD.

 

[Soulfly]

I know that swift swim is banned when there is drizzle in team.
But other then swift swim , rain doesnt give any advantages that will make a team overpowered. Wich is why rain is my least favorite kind of team.
(Funny that the rules dont care about drought + chlorophyll)

 

[dori]

No...I'm going to say you NEED GLISCORS. Why might you ask?

It flies.

Yup, otherwise you'll have a hard time with Conkeldurr and Scizor, both of whom can repeatedly abuse Blissey and Bronzong to keep damaging you greatly with their STABs off the bat.

Although I'd rather use a Swords Dance Gliscor to add some additional hard hitting with your stall build. No point in switching into a Conkeldurr if you can't outdamage it -_-

 

[Browners]

I know what you mean. Set up special sweepers are a HUGE problem. But i really do need a cleric, especially for Bliss (poison) and Scizor (Burn) and i can just use protect on Gliscor to get poison back. Maybe I should swap out wish for softboiled and aromatherapy?

 

[Mournful]

In your Rotom W description it says that hydro pumps base power is 360 in rain is 360? I'm pretty sure rain is only a 50% boost meaning the base power would be 270...

 

[GtM]

If status on Scizor is a big problem, use a Lum Berry. It isn't going to be taking any residual damage from Sandstorm so it's probably quite a good user of the item.

 

[Browners]

No...I'm going to say you NEED GLISCORS. Why might you ask?

It flies.

Yup, otherwise you'll have a hard time with Conkeldurr and Scizor, both of whom can repeatedly abuse Blissey and Bronzong to keep damaging you greatly with their STABs off the bat.

Although I'd rather use a Swords Dance Gliscor to add some additional hard hitting with your stall build. No point in switching into a Conkeldurr if you can't outdamage it -_-

I know what you mean. Gliscor has worked out well for me too.
And I am using an SD Gliscor. Conkeldurr and scizor really don't appreciate Facade and EQ, as well as bein totally helpless against gliscor.

 

[Browners]

In your Rotom W description it says that hydro pumps base power is 360 in rain is 360? I'm pretty sure rain is only a 50% boost meaning the base power would be 270...

I'll change it now :)

 

[obi]

You'll definitely want to drop those HP EVs for max Defense. The HP EVs really aren't changing Blissey's special defensiveness that much (9.7% increase), while the Defense EVs will make Blissey actually quite physically defensive (a 93.8% increase). This will actually make your Blissey almost as physically defensive as your Scizor (100% Blissey would be as hard to kill as 96% Scizor).

Of course, since you're not using special attacks, it may be better to use Eviolite Chansey. You give up Leftovers for 23.7% more Special Defense and 35.3% more physical defense (putting Chansey as slightly more physically defensive than max HP Tyranitar or 252 HP / 252 Def Scizor). Those are pretty significant gains, so I'd go for it.

 

[Browners]

If status on Scizor is a big problem, use a Lum Berry. It isn't going to be taking any residual damage from Sandstorm so it's probably quite a good user of the item.

I've put it in the additional comments section, but para is still a BIG deal on rotom.

 

[Browners]

You'll definitely want to drop those HP EVs for max Defense. The HP EVs really aren't changing Blissey's special defensiveness that much (9.7% increase), while the Defense EVs will make Blissey actually quite physically defensive (a 93.8% increase). This will actually make your Blissey almost as physically defensive as your Scizor (100% Blissey would be as hard to kill as 96% Scizor).

Of course, since you're not using special attacks, it may be better to use Eviolite Chansey. You give up Leftovers for 23.7% more Special Defense and 35.3% more physical defense (putting Chansey as slightly more physically defensive than max HP Tyranitar or 252 HP / 252 Def Scizor). Those are pretty significant gains, so I'd go for it.

thats a good idea, but the thing is, I NEVER use bliss when there's a possibilty of a physical attack. Mix stuff i'll go into bronzong and physical threats i'll go into gliscor. I NEED to be able to take those boosted Hydro Pumps as well as I possibly can. Also, worst case scenario, then other team gets sand up. This is fatal to chansey as she lacks lefties. Blissey however can handle it as lefties cancel out SS damage

 

[dori]

You gotta think about it this way, somethings you can't help. Blissey might have to take a random physical attack sometimes. By maxing it's DEF instead of HP, you're basically doubling it's defensive that. EVs are all about %, not actual #. 63 points to Blissey's defense means a whole lot more than 63 points to HP because it's barely a fraction of Blissey's total HP. I insist you move it from HP to DEF. You will barely find a difference special defensively.

 

[Evire]

Definitely put toxic on Blissey over Heal Bell, it would let you stall the likes of Gastrodon out and other walls. :]

 

[Browners]

How about this:
I changed Bliss to Eviolite Chansey.
Max Def and S.Def with the 4 in HP
Moves = S-toss, Toxic, Heal Bell and Softboiled.

I also Changed the Scizor to a Lucario because I was having problems with coverage and Speed. Lucario has E-speed so the priority is still there.

I'm also testing to see which is a better scarf user out of Rotom W and Starmie. Starmie gets BoltBeam as well as better speed (but it's scarfed so I'm already fast enough)

However Rotom has to rely on Volt Switch and HP Ice for Pseudo BoltBeam, Both of which have their disadvantages. However Rotom hits harder, has a superior type combination and STAB on Volt Switch.

Now I no longer have wish support, I really ought to swap out Bronzong for a wall with ANY sort of recovery. HOWEVER as I have heal bell on Chansey, I can run Rest on this new wall. It needs to be able to set up rocks, and preferably a steel type to take dragon hits :) what should I use?

 

[BKC]

Have you considered Forretress in Scizor's place? Your team's impressive defensive synergy means you will be forcing a ton of switches, so hazards would make it much easier for to you break other teams down. He also spins away the hazards you mentioned give you trouble, and helps wear down Taunt Jellicent - OU's premier spinblocker, and the biggest threat this team faces - with Toxic Spikes.

Forretress @ Leftovers | Impish | EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD
Spikes | Toxic Spikes | Rapid Spin | Earthquake

Just something to consider, good team and good luck.

 

[Browners]

How about in Bronzong's place? He seems like dead weight now i have swapped out WishBliss for Cleric Chansey. Forretress could work as i need entry hazards up, but he has no real recovery. I'm using Lucario over scizor now so the fire weakness isnt too bad, especially as it's raining and i have 2 resists, as well as Chansey and Gliscor being able to wall Chandelure, Volcarona, Darmanitan and Heatran Between them. However this may seem odd but besides chansey, i'm not really weak to hazards at all. Politoed is almost never alive by the mid-game, Gliscor and Rotom both are immune to spikes and neutral to rocks, as well as Lucario 4x resisting rocks.

What do you guys think? Forretress over Bronzong?
remember i need it to set up rocks, and take physical water/ice hits as well as deal a little damage back :)

 

[Charizard92]

go with forretress, but make it a - speed nature and slap gyro ball on it.

also, volcarona can set up on and eliminate chancey and Gliscor :) I've done it many times before ;)