Just a note: I spoke to Oglemi a while ago and he thinks that RU suspects might start when OU suspects round 5 ends, but for some reason it seems that voting has been held off for a month or so, which is unreasonable even considering the server downtime. He also said that RU analyses will be opened when the first round of RU suspects end, so tough luck for anyone who's still in school who wants to write an RU analysis.
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Rarely Used (RU) Tier
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
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Torterra is better off with either Rock Polish, Curse or Leech Seed/Stealth Rock sets. This is coming from a guy that has used a Scarfterra before.
How do you not love it? People send out their fire types out to kill it and you EQ them down to the ground.
Third option:
HELL NO
Anyway, Scarf Torterra is actually a nice option. You see, RPTerra and ScarfTerra achieve different goals. RPTerra wants to set up some speed-trollage and destroy everything in its wake. ScarfTerra wants to surprise the target to score an additional KO, supporting the rest of the team.
I will vouch for this. I've started using Rotom as well, especially TrickScarf Rotom. A Timid scarfed Rotom outruns a +1 Speed Boost Modest Yanmega, Thunderbolt/Shadow Ball are both decent STABs, and with the lack of steel types kicking around, HP Ice can round out the coverage (hitting those ground/grass/dragon types) Trick is especially good for ruining support pokemon, or breaking up walls.
However, it doesn't quite have enough kick to kill someone without a super effective attack. Likewise, it doesn't have superb defenses. I will vouch though that because of the speed, it is one of the better offensive spinblockers, and is a lot safer to use than Golurk.
I used Rotom with Specs, and it hits very hard, 2HKOing almost anything with its STABs alone and crippling everything who can wall it.
Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball, Volt Switch, Trick is everything I needed to make Rotom work, its job is to prevent rapid spin, scout and cause some damage and it is excellent at doing that
Speed Boost Yanmega isn't a problem for Rotom as it resist both stabs and is immune to hp ground, Specs of course will kill it, but yeah even Heatran is 2HKOed by a Specs Air Slash
Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball, Volt Switch, Trick is everything I needed to make Rotom work, its job is to prevent rapid spin, scout and cause some damage and it is excellent at doing that
Speed Boost Yanmega isn't a problem for Rotom as it resist both stabs and is immune to hp ground, Specs of course will kill it, but yeah even Heatran is 2HKOed by a Specs Air Slash
Even if Rotom does resist Bug/Flying/Ground it's a non-issue for Yanmega due to Tinted Lens.
Ya know, I feel like bringing up Zweilous, so here's my piece on it.
You know, one would think Zweilous would make a fearsome Choice Bander down in RU, and it's not hard to see the positives to it. With Hustle also boosting its base 85 Attack, with CB, an Adamant (or Brave) nature, 252 EVs, and 31 IVs, the two-headed dragon's Attack is effectively a whoppin' 663! With the low number of Steel-types in this tier, it should be rather easy (especially with Magneton in your team) to clear the way for some destruction by Outrage!
However, this thing is wracked by negatives, one of which is the double-edged sword known as Hustle. While the Attack boost is nice, the 20% accuracy drop can get very frustrating very fast. Base 58 Speed isn't outpacin' much outside the defensive field, and 72/70/70 isn't the bulkiest in the world. Finally, outside of Outrage and Crunch, Zweilous doesn't have much for coverage; in fact, it only has the Elemental Fangs and (maybe) Head Smash. Fire Fang is definitely the dragon's best coverage move, as it does at least provide unresisted neutral coverage alongside Outrage, as well as utterly destroying Ferroseed. However, their base power is only 65, and their accuracy is effectively 76%. Head Smash is definitely powerful, but it doesn't really give much coverage that the Fangs can't provide, it only has 64% accuracy, and the recoil is always a pain.
If you want to use this thing, I feel that it's best to use it in a Trick Room team with the following set:
Outrageous Power!
Brave / Choice Band / Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Attack / 4 Defense
Notable IVs: Speed (0)
- Outrage
- Crunch
- Fire Fang
- Thunder Fang / Ice Fang
You know, one would think Zweilous would make a fearsome Choice Bander down in RU, and it's not hard to see the positives to it. With Hustle also boosting its base 85 Attack, with CB, an Adamant (or Brave) nature, 252 EVs, and 31 IVs, the two-headed dragon's Attack is effectively a whoppin' 663! With the low number of Steel-types in this tier, it should be rather easy (especially with Magneton in your team) to clear the way for some destruction by Outrage!
However, this thing is wracked by negatives, one of which is the double-edged sword known as Hustle. While the Attack boost is nice, the 20% accuracy drop can get very frustrating very fast. Base 58 Speed isn't outpacin' much outside the defensive field, and 72/70/70 isn't the bulkiest in the world. Finally, outside of Outrage and Crunch, Zweilous doesn't have much for coverage; in fact, it only has the Elemental Fangs and (maybe) Head Smash. Fire Fang is definitely the dragon's best coverage move, as it does at least provide unresisted neutral coverage alongside Outrage, as well as utterly destroying Ferroseed. However, their base power is only 65, and their accuracy is effectively 76%. Head Smash is definitely powerful, but it doesn't really give much coverage that the Fangs can't provide, it only has 64% accuracy, and the recoil is always a pain.
If you want to use this thing, I feel that it's best to use it in a Trick Room team with the following set:
Outrageous Power!
Brave / Choice Band / Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Attack / 4 Defense
Notable IVs: Speed (0)
- Outrage
- Crunch
- Fire Fang
- Thunder Fang / Ice Fang
Torterra is my favorite Pokemon, and I've tried out Rock Polish, Curse, Stealth Rock, and SubSeed sets. I prefer Rock Polish, and it works great late-game! :D
Here's my favorite ru poke:
Primeape @ choice scarf
Vital spirit 252atk/252speed/4hp jolly
CC/ice punch/uturn/rock slide
Primape is really fast and hits like a truck. It speed ties with +speed nature speed boost yanmega at +1, and ohkos with rock slide. Vital spirit lets you laugh in the face of venomoth and tangela. It's walled by cresselia, but so is 95% of the tier.
Primeape @ choice scarf
Vital spirit 252atk/252speed/4hp jolly
CC/ice punch/uturn/rock slide
Primape is really fast and hits like a truck. It speed ties with +speed nature speed boost yanmega at +1, and ohkos with rock slide. Vital spirit lets you laugh in the face of venomoth and tangela. It's walled by cresselia, but so is 95% of the tier.
Cress needs to get the fuck out, annoying as hell when a SE move does barley over half.
Cress isn't that bad...it can't really do much. Unlike Chansey it doesn't completely wall nearly every special attack in existence and it can't pass super massive wishes or heal it's team of status. It has limited support and attacking options. Moonlight isn't even that good of recovery since Hail makes it heal a lot less and it only has 8 pp making Cressilia not able to wall that long. Cressilia also has a ton of common weaknesses, bug and dark are quite common in this tier and so as Ghost types. Cress doesn't do too good when a lot of the top threats can beat it 1 on 1 and when it has trouble walling quite a bit of the tier.
Personally I can't see Cressilia as broken unless a lot of the really powerful stall breakers and bug types get banned or move up to UU. (Which seems to be happening soon to some extent.) It's an amazing mixed wall and is good at stalling but it doesn't have too many support options to be broken, plus it suffers having a terrible defensive typing especially in a tier with a lot of bug types.
Personally I can't see Cressilia as broken unless a lot of the really powerful stall breakers and bug types get banned or move up to UU. (Which seems to be happening soon to some extent.) It's an amazing mixed wall and is good at stalling but it doesn't have too many support options to be broken, plus it suffers having a terrible defensive typing especially in a tier with a lot of bug types.
You know, I really don't see the need for yanmega to move to UU. Now some of you are probably sitting there thinking, 'Must grab torches and pitchfork and BURN down master win's house!'. But now that RU has been hunkered down for quite a while, people are starting to find ways to beat it down. Unlike cress, Yanmega can be 1 KO'ed by things meaning he can be taken down. Yanmega is used as a sweeper and what are sweepers? Normally frail and super fast. Yanmega defines sweeper. And he doesn't have that much of a surprise factor anymore so I don't think he needs to move up because there are counters to him.
Now Cress, that's a different story. I find it hard to take down Cress, and I usually lose to teams that have cress in it. There just aren't that many counters to cress and even if there are, players have made their teams already and losing one of their key team members would be crippling to their team. Especially if you're just using that one mon to wall cress.
Case in point, what I'm trying to say is down with Cress, and yay for yanmega.
Now Cress, that's a different story. I find it hard to take down Cress, and I usually lose to teams that have cress in it. There just aren't that many counters to cress and even if there are, players have made their teams already and losing one of their key team members would be crippling to their team. Especially if you're just using that one mon to wall cress.
Case in point, what I'm trying to say is down with Cress, and yay for yanmega.
Yes but the problem is switching into Yanmega. Only about 4 things can switch into Tinted Lens choice Specs Yanmmega and not get 2HKO'd. Those are Lickilicky, Clefable, Audino and Munchlax. Audino can easily be beaten if Stealth Rocks are up while Clefable can't do much without fire blast. Munchlax and Lickilicky have to dedicate a moveslot for rock slide and with no investment it won't even OHKO Yanmega if it has full health. Try using faster pokemon/scarfed pokemon to revenge Yanmega? Well that won't work on speed boost Yanmega, the 2 sets have different counters and really only have 3 counters. (Audino is easily taken down by stealth rock) 2 of them aren't that reliable of counters either and they are lose their effectiveness by counering Yanmega. They can't support their team with heal bell or heal their team with Wish.
(CB Entei's extreme speed isn't going to be killing Yanmega at full health either.)
Also Tinted Lens Yanmega is meant to rip holes in the opponents team, not sweep it. Speed Boost Yanmega is better at that because it doesn't get outsped by a bunch of pokemon.
Edit: Also does anyone know when RU will get it's own subforum? I remember we were supposed to get one a while ago but it never happened.
(CB Entei's extreme speed isn't going to be killing Yanmega at full health either.)
Also Tinted Lens Yanmega is meant to rip holes in the opponents team, not sweep it. Speed Boost Yanmega is better at that because it doesn't get outsped by a bunch of pokemon.
Edit: Also does anyone know when RU will get it's own subforum? I remember we were supposed to get one a while ago but it never happened.
Wut. To beat Cresselia, all you have to do is get a Toxic off on it, or even set up on it (with Durant). You say that counters for Cresselia are few and far between, but all you need is Toxic on someone. You don't have to completely reformulate your team just to beat Cresselia.
You say that Yanmega "doesn't have that much of a surprise factor anymore". When did Yanmega ever? It was always either Specs Tinted Lens or Speed Boost. You also say that "people are starting to find ways to beat it down". The only things that can not get 2HKOd by the right move are Clefable, Audino, Munchlax, and Lickilicky. Clefable and Lickilicky can't do jack if they don't have Fire Blast or Rock Slide. Munchlax has no reliable recovery and can't take repeated Bug Buzzes. It also either has to be defensive enough to live multiple hits, or invest in Attack to kill Yanmega. Audino can be beaten with Stealth Rock on the field.
So you see, Cresselia is much, much, MUCH less broken than Yanmega.
I'd say both yanmega and cresselia are equally broken, and Cresselia can work around toxic with rest talk, substitute and psychoshift. With base 85 speed uninvested it out speeds all the walls that carry toxic, except maybe tie with gligar and some cresselia carry ice beam so gligar won't want to be sticking around.
I don't know what the most common Cresselia set is but it usually involve clam mind and some form of recovery or substitute and 2 attacks with maximum investment in HP And def with bold nature.
OR a set that sets up screens for a Smash Pass.
I personally think Honchkrow will become broken once Rhyperior moves to UU, it's like in the top 20 of UU last month I believe. Once Rhyperior is gone to UU, who will take it's place to counter Honchkrow, evolite Rhydon?... I dunno... Evolite gligar is more solid but can't do much to hit back except use toxic and if Honchkrow happens to carry substitute you're screwed. Entei is probably better at revenging it but i can't think of a true counter.
I don't know what the most common Cresselia set is but it usually involve clam mind and some form of recovery or substitute and 2 attacks with maximum investment in HP And def with bold nature.
OR a set that sets up screens for a Smash Pass.
I personally think Honchkrow will become broken once Rhyperior moves to UU, it's like in the top 20 of UU last month I believe. Once Rhyperior is gone to UU, who will take it's place to counter Honchkrow, evolite Rhydon?... I dunno... Evolite gligar is more solid but can't do much to hit back except use toxic and if Honchkrow happens to carry substitute you're screwed. Entei is probably better at revenging it but i can't think of a true counter.
Cressilia is not that bad, I find it underwelming. It lacks many good support options to really be that good of a defensive threat. Unlike Chancey from the UU tier it isn't curing the whole team of status or healing it's teamates with massive wishes or almost completely walling special attacks. CM Cressilia isn't that good either because it has to boost a bunch of times to be threatening. It's easy enough to kill Cressilia as long as you 2HKO or almost 2HKO it. Moonlight only has 8 PP while Rest isn't exactly the most reliable of recovery. Rest talk sets aren't even that good...
I think it's over hyped but it defenitley is very threatening, it just isn't so amazing when it's in a tier with a bunch of pokemon that could easily beat it. It's not like PO's LU where they're missing all those powerful bug types, Sharpedo, Gallade, Honchkrow, Porygon-Z and more...
Has anyone here tried sub roost moxie honchkrow? I heard it was really good, probably going to try it myself soon.
I think it's over hyped but it defenitley is very threatening, it just isn't so amazing when it's in a tier with a bunch of pokemon that could easily beat it. It's not like PO's LU where they're missing all those powerful bug types, Sharpedo, Gallade, Honchkrow, Porygon-Z and more...
Has anyone here tried sub roost moxie honchkrow? I heard it was really good, probably going to try it myself soon.
I don't understand what a SubRoost Honchkroiw would accomplish- he isn't very bulky whatsoever and doesn't have good resistances to work with, nor is he fast enough to toxic stall appropriately. I personally think that CB is the best, to revenge things with Sucker Punch and put massive dents in the opposition with BB.
I also don't think Cresselia is overwhelming- it's certainly a great Pokemon but almost the entire metagame is against a pure Pyschic defensive Pokemon. There are hardly any threatening fighting types, especially compared to bug or dark types that run amuck. CM is pants- your best option for sure is Dual Screens or other support options.
Also I might as well post a set from my team that I really like. The following was not mine originally, I forget who used it against me but I stole it and am ~IN LOVE~ with it.
@ Leftovers
252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 4 SpDef
Quiet
-Trick Room
-Nasty Plot
-Shadow Ball
-Hidden Power (Fighting) / Energy Ball
TR Cofagrigus is a lot of fun and really easy to use. Surprisingly little can take +2 Shadow Balls and a TR sweeper in general is hard for most teams to stop, especially those with Speed Boost sweepers and the like. Because of Cofagrigus' natural bulk, he can take hits long enough to set up his sweep (just beware Toxic). Spikes support is awesome, because Cofagrigus is a great blocker and he likes it to get around special walls like munchlax or Audino. It just softens up your opponents team in general for a late game sweep. BTDubs don't lower your speed EV, Cofagrius is plenty slow and the extra power for Hidden Power is crucial.
I also don't think Cresselia is overwhelming- it's certainly a great Pokemon but almost the entire metagame is against a pure Pyschic defensive Pokemon. There are hardly any threatening fighting types, especially compared to bug or dark types that run amuck. CM is pants- your best option for sure is Dual Screens or other support options.
Also I might as well post a set from my team that I really like. The following was not mine originally, I forget who used it against me but I stole it and am ~IN LOVE~ with it.
252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 4 SpDef
Quiet
-Trick Room
-Nasty Plot
-Shadow Ball
-Hidden Power (Fighting) / Energy Ball
TR Cofagrigus is a lot of fun and really easy to use. Surprisingly little can take +2 Shadow Balls and a TR sweeper in general is hard for most teams to stop, especially those with Speed Boost sweepers and the like. Because of Cofagrigus' natural bulk, he can take hits long enough to set up his sweep (just beware Toxic). Spikes support is awesome, because Cofagrigus is a great blocker and he likes it to get around special walls like munchlax or Audino. It just softens up your opponents team in general for a late game sweep. BTDubs don't lower your speed EV, Cofagrius is plenty slow and the extra power for Hidden Power is crucial.
Sub roost Honchkrow isn't meant to toxic stall. It's meant to set up a subsitute on something it threatens out then hit the switchin with either Brave Bird or Sucker Punch. It then proceeds to attempt to sweep with it's moxie boost as long as a steel type isn't there. (and a sub helps against pokemon that are resistant to dark and outspeed and OHKO Honchkrow.) Roost is there for extra survibility. (And because there really is nothing else to put in that slot, Night Slash is kind of useless if you have sub up since the opponent can't status you anyways.
Also I find CB Honchkrow way too easy to play around, I like LO because I can use Sucker Punch/Night Slash at the right time, I've lost a lot of games where my CB Honchkrow was locked into a sucker punch and people would just set up and heal in Honch's face then proceed to kill him.
Also I find CB Honchkrow way too easy to play around, I like LO because I can use Sucker Punch/Night Slash at the right time, I've lost a lot of games where my CB Honchkrow was locked into a sucker punch and people would just set up and heal in Honch's face then proceed to kill him.
Sigh.... Why do I even.... When Yanmega first started being played, everyone was saying how broken it would be. Quite a few were scrambling to change their teams to beat yanmega directly and were looking for counters to it. Same with Cress. Now, nobody is talking about yanny and it's died down. Meanwhile, people are still talking about cress. And what about eviolite bronzor and ferroseed? Cant it counter yanmega? Yanmega usually runs protect, air slash, giga drain, and bug buzz. Only one move is effective per pokemon. And what about after yanmega gets a KO? If it's speed boost, just send in cress. It can survive bug buzz and then hit back with ice beam. And if it's a spec, then just send in something that is faster than it. That's how I kill yanmega. And set up rocks, duh. Then priority kills it. So there you go.
@ Master Win: Talk of Yanmega and Cresselia have both died down. In fact discussion in general has died down I think because people are waiting for an official forum and suspect tests to begin. And everything that can be said about these Pokemon has already been said.
I think most people will have the opinion that Yanmega is broken, and there are solid arguments for why it is broken. To save some time, it's basically because of Tinted Lens and it's great power output, thus preventing any sort of safe switch in.
Some people may find Cresselia broken. The argument here isn't as clear imo, because Cresselia is just a bulky Pokemon. CM variants lack power so many viable Pokemon can come in and phaze it away, or haze it, Taunt it, set up alongside it or just outright kill it. Most Dark types, Water types, and Psychic types can win against it one on one and I'm not talking about a gimmicky eviolite thing either. Alakazam, Gallade, Drapion, Honchkrow (with Taunt and Roost), Blastoise, Crawdaunt, Sharpedo, Ferroseed... hell even Weezing can stop it dead (if the enemy Cresselia carries Psychic then you should just forfeit in awe of their power). Munchlax of course, being the best special wall in the tier, can give Cresselia a head start of +6 then come in to pick on something its own size. Need I mention Quagsire? Or SubSeed? Or Trick? So CM Cresselia is just another bulky booster that can be slapped around by almost anything not weak to it. In fact, it is pretty ordinary as a Pokemon and doesn't possess anything to distinguish it from other wannabe CroCunes...
Now we get to the support sets and here things get interesting. The power of Cresselia to guarantee a dual screen set up for the team because of its bulk and it's access to instant healing as well as good support options in Thunder Wave and Lunar Dance really sets it apart. This set is definitely a pain because Cresselia itself is ridiculously hard to OHKO so it is inevitable that it will give your opponent some sort of advantage before going down. If it even does go down. I can see how Cresselia is bordering on broken in this role because it can come in easily and set up support for your opponent to take advantage of, while you can do little about it. Cresselia doesn't have infinite healing, Moonlight's PP is a measly 8, so it can be stalled out if need be and support variants aren't going to be doing much damage in the meantime so there are pros and cons to using it.
This really requires more investigation I think, because how much advantage does Cresselia really bring? Would a team with defensive Cresselia really fare better than defensive Claydol? The team with Claydol will pack Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock of course but Cresselia's team will feature an almost guaranteed screens set up. The two teams will likely have different strategies to capitalise on the different benefits that these two Pokemon bring. I honestly think Cresselia and Claydol are quite evenly matched and I'm actually finding Claydol the more useful Pokemon. They compete with each other for a similar teamslot but bring different skills to the table. I'd be more than happy to keep it like that. Nothing solid has been presented to suggest that Cresselia is breaking the tier into it and its counters. At least not yet.
I think most people will have the opinion that Yanmega is broken, and there are solid arguments for why it is broken. To save some time, it's basically because of Tinted Lens and it's great power output, thus preventing any sort of safe switch in.
Some people may find Cresselia broken. The argument here isn't as clear imo, because Cresselia is just a bulky Pokemon. CM variants lack power so many viable Pokemon can come in and phaze it away, or haze it, Taunt it, set up alongside it or just outright kill it. Most Dark types, Water types, and Psychic types can win against it one on one and I'm not talking about a gimmicky eviolite thing either. Alakazam, Gallade, Drapion, Honchkrow (with Taunt and Roost), Blastoise, Crawdaunt, Sharpedo, Ferroseed... hell even Weezing can stop it dead (if the enemy Cresselia carries Psychic then you should just forfeit in awe of their power). Munchlax of course, being the best special wall in the tier, can give Cresselia a head start of +6 then come in to pick on something its own size. Need I mention Quagsire? Or SubSeed? Or Trick? So CM Cresselia is just another bulky booster that can be slapped around by almost anything not weak to it. In fact, it is pretty ordinary as a Pokemon and doesn't possess anything to distinguish it from other wannabe CroCunes...
Now we get to the support sets and here things get interesting. The power of Cresselia to guarantee a dual screen set up for the team because of its bulk and it's access to instant healing as well as good support options in Thunder Wave and Lunar Dance really sets it apart. This set is definitely a pain because Cresselia itself is ridiculously hard to OHKO so it is inevitable that it will give your opponent some sort of advantage before going down. If it even does go down. I can see how Cresselia is bordering on broken in this role because it can come in easily and set up support for your opponent to take advantage of, while you can do little about it. Cresselia doesn't have infinite healing, Moonlight's PP is a measly 8, so it can be stalled out if need be and support variants aren't going to be doing much damage in the meantime so there are pros and cons to using it.
This really requires more investigation I think, because how much advantage does Cresselia really bring? Would a team with defensive Cresselia really fare better than defensive Claydol? The team with Claydol will pack Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock of course but Cresselia's team will feature an almost guaranteed screens set up. The two teams will likely have different strategies to capitalise on the different benefits that these two Pokemon bring. I honestly think Cresselia and Claydol are quite evenly matched and I'm actually finding Claydol the more useful Pokemon. They compete with each other for a similar teamslot but bring different skills to the table. I'd be more than happy to keep it like that. Nothing solid has been presented to suggest that Cresselia is breaking the tier into it and its counters. At least not yet.
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