Other Looking Ahead to Gen VI Mark II (SEE POSTS #818 & #858)

[Rechi]

Everything has it's counters...that's why we use 6 pokemons...of couse normal pokemons have a little trouble with ghost, and a physical attacker has problems with heavy defensive ones....that doesn't mean it won't be good ....i don't know if it will be OU...but it will be good, equal or better at hax than jirachi at least

Periods...are...for...girls...stop...typing...like...this...

On topic, people are forgetting that most Megas are actually weaker than their Life Orb/Choice Item counterparts. Obviously some of them are going to be put over the edge by their new abilities/speed tiers like Lucario, Gengar, and Medicham but not all of them are going to be that ridiculous.

 

[Monster Guy]

5) Thunder is no longer accurate under rain, and similar issues

Has that been confirmed?

 

[Palu]

I'm curious about Imposter Ditto's role given the introduction of mega pokemon. Assuming it copies the mega-evolved form, a choice-scarfed Ditto could essentially give you another "mega" on your team, probably revenge killing the opponent's mega and threatening whatever switches in. Of course, it's a gimmicky strategy, but that's not to say that it wouldn't work...

 

[Kejmur]

Ive seen a lot of people saying that Gen VI will prolly be far less offensive than V, so i thought i might as well show an argument against this.

We should remember the fact that, even with ONE mega evolution per team, theyre still the absolute definition of a nuke, this is what brings to me to think that stall is dead in Gen VI OU, you HAVE to be prepared for each and everyone of the offensive Mega pokes. Each team having only one of them means that there a lot of possibilties. Even with the reduction of base power of several moves and nerfed weather, what will happen when stall players look at the fact that they WILL be up against a Mega-Lucario that easy 6-0s with a single free turn, a Mega-Medicham that kills something every time it switches in, a Mega Chomp that has a similar trait, plus the fact that it will be able to go mixed; a Mega Gengar that beats ANY single stall (until now) poke 1v1, Mega Gardevoir that has Deo-A level SpA, AND Psyshock, hell, who knows what Alakazam may bring?

I see no way of a stall team having success with so much potential of wallbreaking, you cant check ONE of them, youll have to do more than 30. I see no way of UU and below taking more than 2 suspect rounds with pokes on this scale, OU can be worked around, but im betting on an all out ban on Mega Stones from OU to PU happening.

The only true definition of total nuke I see so far is MegaMedicham, as Huge Power gives him so much damage, that he outdamages Life Orb Medicham, which is something. And he is STILL counterable by bulky physic types (prefer mono-typed like Cresselia, Deoxys-D or Uxie), spiritomb and prankster sableye and I would call him number 1 danger for stall so far. As in most cases Megas are outdamages by their Life Orb prevos as long as they run the same nature (Life Orb Gengar outdamage MegaGengar, etc.) so Stall (or Semi-Stall, Balance) actually dealt with this kind of power before and I think it can do it again. Also remember that you can run only 1 Mega, so it make things easier. And realistically you say 30 Mega forms, but give it a bit of time and I'll say stall will need to prepared for max like 6-8 strongest targets, as they will just be more popular than others. And btw stall worked even in Ubers, tier were everything can smash things up if you let them. And I'm also curious how Smogon plans to do at start with tiers at start, as some Ubers may be much more managable now and would balance things out (like Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, etc.). I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but it should be doable with proper set-up. And I'm a guy which likes to use Scarfer with good resistances in cases something goes wrong (Jirachi, etc.) and in this meta I would recommend at least one scarfer + something else with good speed/priority (for example good priority like defensive CB Scizor) in case something goes wrong, kind of like I do in Ubers (Scarf Palkia + something else for example). Although at the beginning ShadowTag Gengar may make some things much more complicated with trapping...

And about for example Lucario - he has typical 4MMS Syndrome (If he runs Swords Dance, his best set and he STILL needs Swords Dance to IMO really wreck everything up, although mixed can work as well). If he doesn't run ice Punch - Landorus-I, Gliscor, Nidoqueen (although she still survives +2 Ice Punch, but she better be really healthy), Defensive Intimidate Salamence (yeah, pretty old concept, but it works, and remember he has Wish, which is awesome support skill) and few others STILL wall him.

If he doesn't run Stone Edge - for example Intimidate Gyarados says hello and resist both his STABs, making him pretty damn solid pick here.

If he doesn't run Crunch - Slowbro, Jellicent, Cresselia, Bulky Ghost Types wall him.

If he doesn't run high power Steel STAB - Something like Intimidate Granbull wall him for example.

And we may even look for something low niche like Weezing, which IMO suddenly sounds better with really unique typing counting Levitate and STAB Poison actually being usable + good against Fairies. Remember that many threats for example in Ubers have really niche checks/counters - look at Kyogre and stuff like Ludicolo/Gastrodon countering him. Here it's the same. Just adap and think outside of the box.

 

[TaBuu]

Periods...are...for...girls...stop...typing...like...this...

On topic, people are forgetting that most Megas are actually weaker than their Life Orb/Choice Item counterparts. Obviously some of them are going to be put over the edge by their new abilities/speed tiers like Lucario, Gengar, and Medicham but not all of them are going to be that ridiculous.

Looking at everything so far though, in my opinion, every single one of these Mega Evolutions have been proving to be ridiculous...
These Mega Evolutions are turning out to be so strong that GameFreak had to prohibit them from carrying boosting items and they've limited teams to carrying only one per team. That's saying something lol. Looking at MegaGarchomp, I almost feel like they gave him a Speed Nerf because they realized that even with all the Mega nerfs , Mega Garchomp was proving to be too powerful and so a Speed drop was needed. At least that's my little theory~

 

[GuilherWolfang]

I'm curious about Imposter Ditto's role given the introduction of mega pokemon. Assuming it copies the mega-evolved form, a choice-scarfed Ditto could essentially give you another "mega" on your team, probably revenge killing the opponent's mega and threatening whatever switches in. Of course, it's a gimmicky strategy, but that's not to say that it wouldn't work...

OMG O.O

if it can copy a mega...you have 2 ubers in your team
really hope the developers didnt' forgot about ditto...and made impostor not copy mega-form

 

[Patrick1088]

Periods...are...for...girls...stop...typing...like...this...

On topic, people are forgetting that most Megas are actually weaker than their Life Orb/Choice Item counterparts. Obviously some of them are going to be put over the edge by their new abilities/speed tiers like Lucario, Gengar, and Medicham but not all of them are going to be that ridiculous.

I agree 100% not every mega is going to be broken (thick fat venusaur although only a weakness to psychic and flying and access to subseed giga drain do help).
Im very happy with this gen so far. I love the new mechanics and just think of all the viable pokes that will be used now : mawile, kanghaskan, medicham. On top of the other new pokes like aegislash, pangoro, klefki, delphox. I dont see too many cookie cutter teams happening anytime soon

 

[X5Dragon]

I LOL'd at fact #3 (:
But it's so true.

Hide

Has that been confirmed?

I thought a couple of leakers corroborated this, but if not then you can just replace it with critics getting nerfed to x1.5

 

[Stone RG]

Periods...are...for...girls...stop...typing...like...this...

On topic, people are forgetting that most Megas are actually weaker than their Life Orb/Choice Item counterparts. Obviously some of them are going to be put over the edge by their new abilities/speed tiers like Lucario, Gengar, and Medicham but not all of them are going to be that ridiculous.

Thing is, even WITH that power, we should remember that LO plus hazards often take their toll on sweepers, and we know the problem with non-Scarf choice items not only that, but all mega formes have stupidly increased their othr stats, not necessarily offensive ones. In a hypothetical case that Luke wouldnt have increased Speed in Mega Evolution, but its defenses by 10 each, i wouldve taken it ANY day over regular lucario due to the counterproductive effecto LO often causes and a (hypothetical) increased bulk.

 

[Arash]

mega-ampharos probably won't be ban worthy, but what will the policy be on these megas? some of them (gengar, blaziken) are guaranteed to be broken

 

[alexwolf]

Not quite X5Dragon. You talk about fantastic new defensive Pokemon, but which are they? We have Togekiss, Goodra, and what else as contenders? Yeah it's true that GF nerfed many offensive tools, such as weather and high BP moves, but they more than made up for it in terms of power creep with the introduction of MEvos. How will stall deal with Mega Lucario and Mega Garchomp, Pokemon with incredible resilience to passive damage and the ability to 2HKO the whole metagame UNBOOSTED? Let alone Mega Medicham and Mega Gengar, the first of which won't be used a lot due to its frailness and relatively low Speed compared to other MEvos and the latter of which will get banned pretty fast imo, but they may be things for stall to look out regardless. Mega Lucario and Mega Garchomp don't even compare to the best wallbreakers of 5th gen, such as Kyurem-B and Hydreigon, the first of which was weak as fuck to residual and the latter of which relied on stat dropping moves and could be worn down due to LO. I know we are missing a lot of factors right now, but with the things we know stall definitely seems to have gotten a hit.

GF really did more harm than good with MEvos, as far as stall is concerned. I honestly fail to get what they were thinking. Why decrease the overall power of special attackers and weather, just to make the power creep even bigger by increasing MEvos? Why not create some good defensive MEvos to balance the power creep a bit? Don't get me wrong, i know that GF doesn't care a lot about balance and releases offensive MEvos because they sell more and appeal more to the general public, but it's not like i am asking to have half offensive and half defensive MEvos. All i am asking is a fucking couple of good defensive MEvos, is it that hard? 3, 4, 5, or 6 would do the trick, out of the dozens of offensive ones we got. It's not like it's hard to do, just give to the MEvo Regenerator or give the MEvo to an already good defensive Pokemon with reliable recovery. But no, all they could think about is fucking Mega Venusaur, a laughable excuse of a defensive Pokemon that can't even switch into Water-types (Scald) as if it gets burned it loses 25% of its health every time it comes in with SR up, and has no reliable recovery as well.

Really sad times for defensive teams indeed...

 

[TaBuu]

To be honest, I think Smogon will just hand-pick ban the broken Mega Evolutions and keep the other Mega Evolutions around in their appropriate tiers. Banning Mega Evolutions would be incredibly stupid and being too easy on the Mega Evolutions would result in a broken metagame , most definitely.

 

[X5Dragon]

Haunter can confirm this but most likely they will be item bans.

 

[GuilherWolfang]

GUYS! let's remember something..

OU is defined by usage, NOT power. i think it's the 15% more.

But all pokes that get a mega is usefull(some more, some less) and has comparable power with other OU.

So if a mega descend to UU because people don't use it much, it doesn't mean you can't make a team around it and beat most teams, it probably have the power to do it.

EDIT: 2 different things: pokes in OU(defined by usage) and pokes VIABLE in OU(defined by power)..the balance of gamefreak for sure will increase the number of OU viable good pokemons, mega or not

 

[gvmgvm40]

I'm personally interested in MegaBanette and Klefki. Banette will have priority WoW, Taunt and Destiny Bond with actually good stats, while Klefki will have Prankster Spikes. Obviously these won't see use initially while people are drooling over cooler stuff, but I can see both having an -albeit small- impact after the dust settles down.

 

[X5Dragon]

Not quite X5Dragon. You talk about fantastic new defensive Pokemon, but which are they? We have Togekiss, Goodra, and what else as contenders? Yeah it's true that GF nerfed many offensive tools, such as weather and high BP moves, but they more than made up for it in terms of power creep with the introduction of MEvos. How will stall deal with Mega Lucario and Mega Garchomp, Pokemon with incredible resilience to passive damage and the ability to 2HKO the whole metagame UNBOOSTED? Let alone Mega Medicham and Mega Gengar, the first of which won't be used a lot due to its frailness and relatively low Speed compared to other MEvos and the latter of which will get banned pretty fast imo, but they may be things for stall to look out regardless. Mega Lucario and Mega Garchomp don't even compare to the best wallbreakers of 5th gen, such as Kyurem-B and Hydreigon, the first of which was weak as fuck to residual and the latter of which relied on stat dropping moves and could be worn down due to LO. I know we are missing a lot of factors right now, but with the things we know stall definitely seems to have gotten a hit.

GF really did more harm than good with MEvos, as far as stall is concerned. I honestly fail to get what they were thinking. Why increase the overall power of special attackers and weather, just to make the power creep even bigger by increasing MEvos? Why not create some good defensive MEvos to balance the power creep a bit? Don't get me wrong, i know that GF doesn't care a lot about balance and releases offensive MEvos because they sell more and appeal more to the general public, but it's not like i am asking to have half offensive and half defensive MEvos. All i am asking is a fucking couple of good defensive MEvos, is it that hard? 3, 4, 5, or 6 would do the trick, out of the dozens of offensive ones we got. It's not like it's hard to do it, just give to the MEvo Regenerator or give the MEvo to an already good defensive Pokemon with reliable recovery. But no, all they could think about is fucking Mega Venusaur, a laughable excuse of a defensive Pokemon that can't even switch into Water-types (Scald) as if it gets burned it loses 25% of its health every time it comes in with SR up, and has no reliable recovery as well.

Really sad times for defensive teams indeed...

Well, I might have underestimated the impact of MEvos a bit alex and focused a bit more on bulky offense/semi-stall getting more benefits, but let's have another look at what we have so far.

Well, count fairy's for one. There goes you DragSpam teams. Then you've got Aegishield, MegAggron, Togekiss, Goodra, Poison/Dragon thingy, and some pokemon that I'm sure I'm forgetting about, then you also got pranksters such Klefki and Fairy/Grass Whimscott along others. Let's not forget MegAggron has filter and pure steel as an ability, meaning at best that you can hope for is hitting it for x1.5 damage. Then we have new monstrosities such as Eviolite Doublade. That thing was already bulky without the item. Critics, the bane of stall, are now doing x1.5.

Stall didn't gain much, but with offense getting nerfed by a lot and a couple of new pokemon, MEvos and a type that's sole existence is to nerf offensive ones, I'm not seeing how they can complain.

Edit: Again, I cannot emphasize how hard it is to spin SR in this gen, Ghosts got buffed, even something as Aegishield with no attack investment can OHKO Starmie and Forretress is useless. Hazard spinning just got way harder, that's a good thing for stall as well against HO teams.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

You know alexwolf , Gamefreak did give us some great defensive Pokemon.

So you can't really blame them. :P

Anyway, I think I might have to retract my statement on Hidden Powers because of the overall special attack nerf going on for some Pokemon the moves might end up being worth it after all because their other moves were lowered in power.

 

[Forsety]

Really sad times for defensive teams indeed...

Seems awfully dramatic considering the game isn't even officially out, let alone even know half the move changes are and available abilities. You're also ignoring that we've seen moves such as custom protects like King's Shield and Chesnaught's one, more Prankster users the generally defensively orientated Fairy type and rampant re-typing along with weather's nerf. I mean for all the hype of Mega Gengar, if his Mega evo priority comes after switching then it'll give a one turn telegraph for his Shadow Tag.

Come back in a couple months then ranting about the imminent doom of the game might be taken a little more seriously.

 

[Arash]

^even so, mega gengar will trap and kill most things under 394 speed. people are already crying about chandelure with shadow tag as uber, and it has nothing on mega gengar

 

[GCSChris]

I can't even keep up lol. Too much info!

The fact that there are only a couple not so great posts in 5 pages in one day is awesome. Keep the high post quality up!

I added the Mega Alakazam picture, Flareon learning Flare Blitz, and Mega Pinsir info, and a picture of MegaHoundoom!

I'll be riding this here machine until about 3 pm tommorow when I can get my hands on a copy:

doo-hickey

 

[Forsety]

^even so, mega gengar will trap and kill most things under 394 speed. people are already crying about chandelure with shadow tag as uber, and it has nothing on mega gengar

Except Chandelure could hold items, was illegal/unreleased for the ENTIRE entity of Gen 5, didn't have a 1 turn delay on it's trap and isn't part of a new generation where there looks to be a new standard of power where for all the boosts we see may equalize themselves in some other way.

 

[mattj]

Really sad times for defensive teams indeed...

Most of the Megas do look just ridiculously overpowered. But you only get 1 per team. Meanwhile every consistent, high BP move got nerfed, we got new protects, and a few new crazily defensive mons. I'll agree that the MEvos are a push in the offensive direction, but its going to be a limited push because we're limited to one per team. The other 5/6ths of your team is still the same old same old, using weaker, less consistent attacks and dealing with new defenses.

 

[RNGnoob]

Mega Scizor gets technician.

Stats http://imgur.com/d6I9BgT&RHPOcsV&Zm4oI00&EDWxeCK&bbjcb26&ke73F8G&rHkRacg&fjznnuf#4

 

[Arash]

Except Chandelure could hold items, was illegal/unreleased for the ENTIRE entity of Gen 5, didn't have a 1 turn delay on it's trap and isn't part of a new generation where there looks to be a new standard of power where for all the boosts we see may equalize themselves in some other way.

the 1 turn delay only means that you either switch and eat a powerful attack for free, or stay in and get trapped / eat a powerful attack if you're slower than 394 speed.

with the kind of coverage that gengar has i don't think it will care about power

 

[youngjake93]

Seems awfully dramatic considering the game isn't even officially out, let alone even know half the move changes are and available abilities. You're also ignoring that we've seen moves such as custom protects like King's Shield and Chesnaught's one, more Prankster users the generally defensively orientated Fairy type and rampant re-typing along with weather's nerf. I mean for all the hype of Mega Gengar, if his Mega evo priority comes after switching then it'll give a one turn telegraph for his Shadow Tag.

Come back in a couple months then ranting about the imminent doom of the game might be taken a little more seriously.

Gengar was speculated to be high OU BEFORE its MEvo though. I'd hardly call it obvious that it will mega evolve.