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With auto-weather down to 5 turns, you're right in that it puts a "timer" on the number of turns Exca can be effective (although obviously unlike Trick Room sweepers, Excadrill is still faster than a good portion of mons even without the sand boost). But with that 5 turn limit now, he's going to be SO much more predictable and easier to play around, it's easy to see a drop.
As for Aegislash, thanks to his ability he impresses me as more of a hit-and-run type of tank, rather than a dedicated TR sweeper. He will be able to switch in to sponge hits, fire off one powerful attack or WoW, and then switch back out before his frail offensive form gets hit (Pain Split would allow him to do this repeatedly). I think a CB set could be very effective as well, huge power including a STAB Shadow Sneak negating his rotten speed.
Talonflame is confirmed to get Swords Dance, Acrobatics, Flare Blitz, Roost, and Flame Charge (which has been buffed to 60 BP). Combine those moves with its ability (Speed Wing or something), which gives priority to all Flying-type moves (priority Acrobatics and Roost) and 80 Atk and you have a really good and unique sweeper in your hands. I will only leave two calcs here:
+2 252+ Atk Talonflame Acrobatics vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 310-366 (95.67 - 112.96%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Acrobatics vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 369-435 (87.85 - 103.57%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
He has 130 Speed though, that's just the weirdest ability to give a mon like that. If it's Attack and Speed stats were reversed I could see him being pretty good AND balanced thanks to his horrid typing. He won't make OU, but he could definitely see some decent use in UU.
On that note, do you guys think any weather inducers will drop to UU? I feel like Ninetales just might with the competition from MegaZard (however everyone might forgo him for another Mega who knows). Politoed will likely stay on the cusp of OU at least IMO and Abamosnow in BL. With 3 different forms to choose from, it feels like Charizard might just make OU from the combined usage of all his forms.
No-Mega:
Solar Power /w Choice Specs equipped. Gotta nuke shit, even SDef Blissey can't avoid the 2HKO. Snorlax can, however. Obviously used alongside Ninetales. Scarf is a possibility too, since you still hit hard enough to wreck shit, but the raw power Choice Specs provides is more attractive, since Zard it too slow to be a desirable Scarfer in OU and you have something like Chlorophyll Venusaur anyway.
Mega Y:
Drought, bringing sun. Maybe, or maybe not, used alongside Ninetales, to ensure a weather war victory. Has a lot of raw power and reliable recovery in Roost to go with this.
Mega X:
Amazing type, unavailable outside of Ubers as it is. Also used alongside Ninetales and looks to be one of the best physical sweepers under the Sun.
As such, I do not see Ninetales dropping to UU. Ninetales is a major partner-in-crime for Charizard, probably even vital to Zard's success.
Scolipede now gets Speed Boost, which means it completely outclasses Ninjask now since it also learns Baton Pass and Swords Dance, it's not 4x weak to SR, can actually take a hit, can actually fight back and has entry hazards to boot.
But do you think they're good enough to be really even decent in OU?? They have a lot working against them. If weather wasn't nerfed I'd totally agree, both OU.
As it is though. Stealth Rock really effs them over. They will be forced out by the fact that weather doesn't last long enough to sweep and the numerous Pokemon that can counter Zard's sleep. Heatran namely, the only one that can beat him is MegaZard X with EQ and MegaZard X honestly doesn't really seem that hard to deal with given its newfound ground weakness. It's just not that efficient. Zard will be lucky to make OU most likely.
Edit: I'll lol if they give Serperior and Chandelure new hidden abilities.
Just tried the Aegislash Shadow Sneak set in a custom Gen VI battle. It's not as effective as we think (Zygarde walls it like hell). Still pretty good.
Manaphy is going to be an interesting thing to track early in the testing process, especially if it gains a secondary Fairy typing. Its Offensive Tail Glow set has a lot of potential, but it seems like the bulky Calm Mind set died because of the Drizzle nerf. Another thing to note is that the base power of all three of the Tail Glow set's coverage moves have been changed -- Surf to 90 BP, Ice Beam to 90 BP, and Energy Ball to 90 BP.
Robert Alfons You got to put a little more thought into it man. The stats are there, but the resists aren't. You need both to succeed.
Rock / Fairy
Weakness: Ground, Water, Grass, Steel
Resist: Normal, Fire, Flying, Bug, Dark
Immunity: Dragon
Carbink doesn't have any resists to the attacking types that are (actually) common as STAB's to OU sweepers outside of its immunity to Dragon. I'll give you Fire for Heatran and Volcarona. Every single physical Dragon in OU has Earthquake listed as coverage. The two special Dragons of OU: Latias and Latios, both use Surf on their attacking sets. Kyurem-B is mixed. Hydreigon, the least use Dragon of them all (seriously no one really uses it at 3-4% usage iirc on the 1850 stats) doesn't use surf or Earth Power commonly, but it can viably use it.
Physical Dragons:
All calcs with physical carbink. Except for Kyurem-B because it runs mixed sets. In Kube's case it is mix and match between physical and special carbink.
Garchomp:
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 176-210 (57.89 - 69.07%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 229-273 (75.32 - 89.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Dragonite:
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 198-234 (65.13 - 76.97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 134-158 (44.07 - 51.97%) -- 80.08% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Salamence:
252 Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 122-144 (40.13 - 47.36%) -- 4.69% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
This means Carbink can not take any damage before it comes in to check DD Mence without a Life Orb.
252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 159-187 (52.3 - 61.51%) -- 96.48% chance to 2HKO
What if it got a DD off?
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 237-281 (77.96 - 92.43%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Kyurem-B:
Specially based mixed vs Special Carbink:
252+ SpA Life Orb Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 146-172 (48.02 - 56.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Specially Based mixed vs Physical Carbink:
252+ SpA Life Orb Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 187-221 (61.51 - 72.69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Physically Based mixed vs Special Carbink:
252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def (custom): 134-159 (44.07 - 52.3%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Physically Based Mixed vs Physical Carbink
4 SpA Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 109-130 (35.85 - 42.76%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Special Dragons:
All calcs with Special Carbink.
Latios:
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 170-200 (55.92 - 65.78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 146-174 (48.02 - 57.23%) -- 37.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 146-174 (48.02 - 57.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Expert Belt Latios Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 134-161 (44.07 - 52.96%) -- 86.72% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Latias:
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 133-156 (43.75 - 51.31%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Even Psyshock is doing a hefty chunk and with SR down a combo of Psyshock + Surf could KO.
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def (custom): 107-126 (35.19 - 41.44%) -- 78.13% chance to 3HKO
Hydreigon:
Hydreigons run Modest natures, so they hate higher attacking stats than Latios' (383 vs 359). Because of that, they achieve the same KO's as Latios.
So as you can see, even with max defense, Carbink is still 2HKO'ed by every physical Dragon in OU, some without SR down. The special Dragons can 2HKO it too with SR down even when it uses a completely specially defensive set. So yeah, the defensive stats are there but the resists are not. Actually, I would say that Carbink's HP stat really let's it down. It plays a huge factor in its overall bulk. I did not include sand for the special dragons because of Sand Streams's reduced turn effect.
Woah man, you didn't need to go through this much trouble just to prove me wrong. I was just stating that in terms of raw stats Carbink has plenty of bulk. Of course I'm aware it won't have a snowball's chance in hell of surviving in OU with such pitiful offenses and a mediocre defensive typing, I was just pointing out that Carbink does have some really high stats (although I guess it's negated by having poor offenses but eh)
Yeah, the new fairies all seem UU material at best, but there's always the retyped mons. Togekiss seems like it could become more viable with the better typing it gets now (although paralysis getting nerfed will hurt it somewhat but it's not like any self-respecting individual will resort to paraflinch anyways).
He has 130 Speed though, that's just the weirdest ability to give a mon like that. If it's Attack and Speed stats were reversed I could see him being pretty good AND balanced thanks to his horrid typing. He won't make OU, but he could definitely see some decent use in UU.
I think it has a legitimate shot at being effective in OU. Priority is still priority even with huge Speed, and a Swords Dance set is going to be really goddamn hard to revenge kill with +2 Acrobatics at +1 priority. No Choice Scarf user is going to outrun that, and pretty much the only priority that can be used to outspeed it is Extremespeed. It might be kind of hard to set up though, especially with its nasty 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, but the ability is by no means wasted on Talonflame.
Also general claims of "this won't be OU" or "this will for sure be banworthy" are empty statements because we have no idea what the metagame is going to look like. If we could all cut down on that in general, it would really help keep the discussion on hand without getting side-tracked with irrelevant tiering arguments. Thanks. :)
I think it has a legitimate shot at being effective in OU. Priority is still priority even with huge Speed, and a Swords Dance set is going to be really goddamn hard to revenge kill with +2 Acrobatics at +1 priority. No Choice Scarf user is going to outrun that, and pretty much the only priority that can be used to outspeed it is Extremespeed. It might be kind of hard to set up though, especially with its nasty 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, but the ability is by no means wasted on Talonflame.
Also general claims of "this won't be OU" or "this will for sure be banworthy" are empty statements because we have no idea what the metagame is going to look like. If we could all cut down on that in general, it would really help keep the discussion on hand without getting side-tracked with irrelevant tiering arguments. Thanks. :)
Ability to outspeed Aqua Jet (Azumarill as Fairy type may see some use now) and Ice Shard (with this physical bulk Ice Shard will hurt even if neutral, so Mamoswine and Weavile may struggle to revenge kill) and still if ur low on hp all other priority counts in as well like Bullet Punch, so I think he's better than we think. Only problem is that heavy x4 rock weakness and this puny bulk, although he should be able to force switches with Fire and Flying STABs, so I don't think this sounds as bad.
Not sure if this has been discussed but I'd like to ask what people think about the move "Flame Charge". If you're not sure on it:
50 Damage, 100 Acc, Physical, Fire Type, 100% Chance to increase speed
Despite having low damage, a strong Fire Type could use this on a switch in, do damage and gain a few speed boost then proceed to sweep. Plus it could be good against Pokemon that have lowered HP. It's not that great but still good enough to be viable.
Not sure if this has been discussed but I'd like to ask what people think about the move "Flame Charge". If you're not sure on it:
50 Damage, 100 Acc, Physical, Fire Type, 100% Chance to increase speed
Despite having low damage, a strong Fire Type could use this on a switch in, do damage and gain a few speed boost then proceed to sweep. Plus it could be good against Pokemon that have lowered HP. It's not that great but still good enough to be viable.
Looking at Mat Block and Crafty Shield, do they fail after repeated use like protect? Also do they lower the chance of moves like protect, otherwise you could alternate Mat Block and Protect? Does it have the same the same priority as Protect?
I feel like Mat Block will be very powerful in double battles, Mat Block while your partner sets up a free substitute to protect itself from status.
I think it has a legitimate shot at being effective in OU. Priority is still priority even with huge Speed, and a Swords Dance set is going to be really goddamn hard to revenge kill with +2 Acrobatics at +1 priority. No Choice Scarf user is going to outrun that, and pretty much the only priority that can be used to outspeed it is Extremespeed. It might be kind of hard to set up though, especially with its nasty 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, but the ability is by no means wasted on Talonflame.
Also general claims of "this won't be OU" or "this will for sure be banworthy" are empty statements because we have no idea what the metagame is going to look like. If we could all cut down on that in general, it would really help keep the discussion on hand without getting side-tracked with irrelevant tiering arguments. Thanks. :)
Priority surely is a powerful thing, and I can see Talonflame pulling out some last minute gnarly wins having the best priority in the game, but Pokemon have to be truly overwhelming (see: Volcarona) to overcome a SR weakness that huge. If it's attack was just a little higher (Base 100 even, SOMETHING), I would be a lot more confident in it. Anyone who has used Dugtrio knows that, even with a CB, Base 80 Attack is quite underwhelming. It does have Swords Dance to be fair though, and I see your point, I'm excited to see how it all plays out. :D
And add the sleep counter no longer resetting to the ever-growning number of nerfs Breloom is receiving. We're at what, 7 now? At least he gets technician Power-Up Punch. :P
Seriously.
Breloom nerfs so far:
-Fairy types resisting Fighting and being SE against it
-Low Sweep going to 65, so it's no longer boosted by Technician
-Grass types being immune to Spore
-Sleep counter going back to pre-BW mechanics
-Several new relevant pokemon that resist its STABs such as Aegislash, Delphox and Mega Venusaur
-Poison moves being more widespread because of Fairies
-Other minor annoyances such as WoW becoming more accurate and moves that punish contact attacks
Seriously.
Breloom nerfs so far:
-Fairy types resisting Fighting and being SE against it
-Low Sweep going to 65, so it's no longer boosted by Technician
-Grass types being immune to Spore
-Sleep counter going back to pre-BW mechanics
-Several new relevant pokemon that resist its STABs such as Aegislash, Delphox and Mega Venusaur
-Poison moves being more widespread because of Fairies
-Other minor annoyances such as WoW becoming more accurate and moves that punish contact attacks
Yes. And it's fantastic. Celebi and Mega Venusaur are 100% counters now, resisting both of his STABs, both having great bulk and both being immune to spore. It's perfect, I hope there will be even more nerfs.
