Other The Lack of Power Creep in Gen 6

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Hello everyone

After the stats have been released for all pokemon and I've looked through them, I've decided to open this thread on the lack of power creep this generation as compared to last, and open a discussion on the possibilities this adds to a more quickly balanced metagame.

Let's ignore Mega Evolutions for a second.

On a look through the stats, one will notice that nearly every pokemon has more balanced stats than many of those from the last generation. Not only are there only 3 pokemon with an excess of 130 base Attack or Special Attack, two of them are the cover legendaries and the third (Aegislash) has 50 defenses and horrible speed when using that form.

There are several bulky pokemon introduced, but none of them are Blisseys (or even Jellicents, it seems). Though Goodra and Fur Coat Furfrou might give the power houses of last gen a little bit of a struggle (less so Furfrou, due to the emphasis on Fighting Type in last gen).

This is a very good sign for the competetive game, as many of the old threats will remain threats, with new intermediate threats being added, but seemingly no 10 new pokemon that will dominate the ladder in usage.

Chou Toshio Edit: DO NOT discuss what should or should not be banned. Disobey this rule again and I will be tacking a warning on here as well. This goes for the replies as well.

This is again, due to the lack of power creep. The power creep, in the uber case, comes again in nearly all offensive prowess. Only a handful of pokemon that received mega evolutions would be considered as defensive pokemon, and even then, not always. Blastoise, Aggron, Venusaur, and Tyranitar are all that come to mind off the top of my head. Segregating the potential power creep pokemon (The mega evolutions) and adding things into the meta game as it develops, rather than allowing all of the powerful pokemon and banning as necessary, will make a potentially slightly less diverse meta game at the beginning (though, through a potentially smaller amount of centralization, could end up being MORE diverse) but a widely more balanced and enjoyable meta game on the whole.

Being as though seemingly all of the power creep comes in this one classification of pokemon, it is my hope that this generation will have a very balanced meta game, allowing the advancements made in the previous generation to keep much of their worth now, rather than having to re-evaluate many of the already banned pokemon. This is a very important step for the players, as we look forward to and hope for a balanced meta game, and we are all very aware of how much work everyone here at Smogon put in for that. Being so, we don't want to see all of you put in that amount of unnecessary labor trying to re-invent the wheel. You've done a very good job in previous generations, take this as an opportunity to springboard forward into the new metagame, not a slip backwards. We are going into a very promising looking metagame, it's okay to keep working on the problems that haven't been resolved from the previous generation before looking at the somewhat humble spreads of the new pokemon.

In short, the lack of power creep and addition of many balanced, solid but not over whelming pokemon will hopefully lead to a very healthy metagame both during first implementation and in the future.
 
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The one that scares me the most is Mega Mewtwo X and Y. Seriously, an already incredibly versatile Pokemon with Uber stats and which is probably one of the best special attackers in the entire game, and now it gets boosted to become even more powerful stats wise ?

What was Gamefreak thinking?
 

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The one that scares me the most is Mega Mewtwo X and Y. Seriously, an already incredibly versatile Pokemon with Uber stats and which is probably one of the best special attackers in the entire game, and now it gets boosted to become even more powerful stats wise ?

What was Gamefreak thinking?
Mega Mewtwo is weaker than LO Mewtwo lol.
Such is the case for lots of Megas.

In general, looking at these new Pokemon stat spreads I feel GF was trying to make up for some if the stat spreads from last gen. Black/White had many Attack-focused Pokemon and few Specially defensive ones and it seems to be the opposite this gen.
 
It's fine.

I think Gen. III is the problem, the power creep didn't start jumping until Gen. III. It's why Gen. III is one of my least favorites.
Regardless of when it started, this is a step back. That's not to say that Gen 6 wouldn't be a power jump in relation to Gen I, for example, but in relation to Gen 5 the general theme is a more balanced set of pokemon.
 
The one that scares me the most is Mega Mewtwo X and Y. Seriously, an already incredibly versatile Pokemon with Uber stats and which is probably one of the best special attackers in the entire game, and now it gets boosted to become even more powerful stats wise ?

What was Gamefreak thinking?
They were thinking if you take an iconic Pokemon everyone is familiar with and put bigger numbers on the end of it, people will buy the game. I can't say their logic was flawed.
 
I like stall mons so I welcome this change.

That and weather nerf, this coming from someone who ran 100% OU stall rain team.
 
I don't agree with starting with Mega-Blaziken, Mega-Gengar and Mega-Scizor banned. Especially not Mega-Scizor who really isn't better at spamming Bullet Punch than plain regular Scizor due to it losing an item slot, it gets better bulk but I don't feel like it makes it uber material.

Mega-Gengar and Mega-Blaziken both have a good chance of ending up Uber but I have the impression that we were going to bring down a couple of Ubers to OU for testing like how we did when gen 5 came along. If we for bring down Speed Boost Blaziken I don't see why we should instantly ban Mega-Blaziken.
 
There are enough varied Megamon and the fact that each team can only have one balances it A LOT. Let's not jump to conclusions about banning immediately outside of mascot legendaries where it may not be warranted. Let's see what kind of interesting strategies develop and what trends form. Leave room to experiment. It's easier to ban after testing than it is to ban outright and try to let them back in.
 
Remember, Kyurem-B was OU last gen despite how scary it looked. Last time we started out with nobody banned and went from there, and that's a pretty good model to begin this gen too.
There was still a pre-ban list last gen, but it was composed of things that were already obviously too powerful (Lugia, Mewtwo, Arceus, Giratina, ect.) While I'm all for testing things out, Megagar is terrifying enough of a prospect where the end result seems pretty obvious...
 
There was still a pre-ban list last gen, but it was composed of things that were already obviously too powerful (Lugia, Mewtwo, Arceus, Giratina, ect.) While I'm all for testing things out, Megagar is terrifying enough of a prospect where the end result seems pretty obvious...
We know they were too powerful because of past experience in the last gen. We don't have this for Mega Gengar
 
We know they were too powerful because of past experience in the last gen. We don't have this for Mega Gengar
Which is fair enough. I still believe it deserves a fair test, I'm simply commenting that it's eventual status is pretty much telegraphed. If Gengar with shadow tag and a stat increase doesn't make ubers I'll be pleasently surprised.
 
I don't think any of the Mega Evo's should be banned until we've properly tested them. As for Mega Gengar, it has less power than LO Gengar, can't use any items, and is still pursuit trapped by Pokemon such as Tyranitar or specially defensive Aegislash. There's also the Assault Vest, which gives a pretty significant special defense boost, allowing many Pokemon to be able to tank a hit from it and OHKO it back, since, despite the increased defenses, Mega Gengar is still very frail. Finally, it still has to contend with other Mega Evo's, who all also boast some pretty impressive offenses and defenses.
 
I don't think any of the Mega Evo's should be banned until we've properly tested them. As for Mega Gengar, it has less power than LO Gengar, can't use any items, and is still pursuit trapped by Pokemon such as Tyranitar or specially defensive Aegislash. There's also the Assault Vest, which gives a pretty significant special defense boost, allowing many Pokemon to be able to tank a hit from it and OHKO it back, since, despite the increased defenses, Mega Gengar is still very frail. Finally, it still has to contend with other Mega Evo's, who all also boast some pretty impressive offenses and defenses.
It also has better bulk, better speed, and does not take LO recoil
 
It also has better bulk, better speed, and does not take LO recoil
Yes, but the bulk doesn't matter because it's still frail. As for the speed, I don't think Mega Gengar is going to appreciate priority Brave Birds from Talonflame, Shadow Sneaks from Aegislash, Bullet Punches from Mega Lucario and Mega Scizor, Sucker Punches from Mega Mawile, Absol, Kangaskhan, and scarf users.
 
Bullet Spamming Scizor should, in my opinion, start off in the ban list.
Except aside from bulk, Scizor is better off without Mega Evolving. CB Scizor is more outright powerful than Mega Scizor, and will spam U-Turn and Bullet Punch all the same.


And the idea that Mega Gengar is easily trapped by Tyranitar is laughable. Shadow Tag means it HAS to be Revenge Killed (because no Gengar user will throw him out against a ghost), and if he hits T-Tar with Focus Blast, it's VEEEERY close to an OHKO (like, 70% damage). Meaning if it's taken prior damage, like any weather starter will...
 
Highly doubt Mega Gengar will be close to uber unless majority of players are bad, I am more worried whether any items were altered at all like the Exp. Share??
 
I posted similar thoughts elsewhere, but I thought it'd be good to bring them up here too. It's too early in X/Y's lifespan to say how the metagame will stabilize in the future. However, it looks like Game Freak made a conscious effort to balance out the extremely offensive and heavily centralized nature of Generation V. Last gen had so many overpowered Pokemon that it truly challenged (and perhaps completely squashed) entire playstyles, but hopefully Generation VI serves to bring that back to a more balanced metagame.

- Weather, which was easily the most defining aspect of B/W, was heavily nerfed; this alone could control the incredibly powerful weather offense that made stall teams incredibly difficult to maintain. It's going to take a lot more effort to maintain weather now. Weather stall may suffer, but not to the extent that offensive weather has.
- There were other minor changes in the game mechanics. Sleep has been reverted to pre-Gen IV mechanics, no longer making a sleeping Pokemon almost certain dead weight on a team. Traditionally weaker types have been buffed, both individually and through the new Fairy-typing. For example, the defensively poor Grass-typing has become slightly better in being immune to a lot of common status moves. I guess stall could have done better if Steel-types still resisted Ghost and Dark, but resisting the coveted new Fairy type is still nice.
- On that note, Fairy-types were added to neuter the extremely threatening Dragon- and Fighting-types running amok, as well as powering up weaker types like Poison and leveling the slight nerf to Steel. Both adding new Pokemon with this typing and readjusting the typings of existing Pokemon has made quite a number of Pokemon viable.
- The small number of new Pokemon (and the unique typings that accompany them), abilities, and moves seems to have been geared more specifically toward countering or checking a lot of the overpowered threats from Gen V, both offensively and defensively, without completely flipping the existing metagame upside-down. It also seems like many of the new Pokemon that have been added are neither too overpowered nor too underwhelming
- Though there were more powerful threats added in the form of Mega Evolutions, only having one of them per team and not allowing them to have items somewhat balances them out. (And it seems like many of these were designed to be legendary/Uber status anyway, so being overpowered may have been the entire point.)
- Small but perhaps significant downward adjustments in many existing moves such as reducing the base powers of the elemental attacks (Fire Blast, Ice Beam, Hydro Pump, Thunderbolt, etc.) and allowing for some holes in Substitute, arguably one of the best moves in the game, have buffed defensive styles enough without completely dooming offensive styles.

If there was another power creep from that ridiculous maelstrom of Generation V, I may not have looked forward to this generation; it seemed like last generation was Game Freak way of saying, "Let's give people NUKES to play with!" But Generation VI may have been the balance we were seeking before ridiculous things like Keldeo, the Therian forms of the Kami trio, and the B/W forms of Kyurem absolutely blew apart OU. it seems like competitive battlers will be sticking around to see how this all plays out.
 
The fact that a pokemon can, guaranteed, take down a single pokemon on your team if the player using it is decent, and can only be killed by priority (or Mega Alakazam, if you have it already mega evolved), is kind of an indicator that it may be a bit too much.
 
Last gen, the initial banlist was determined by very simple criteria: the Pokemon with BST 670+ and no hindering ability. And we even ended up with an exception to that in the form of Kyurem-B, if regular Kyurem wasn't enough already. In this gen, Yveltal could easily end up as another exception. (Xerneas seems... unlikely.)

Mega Evolutions are their own matter. Some of them have high BSTs, but their lack of access to other items means it'd be unfair to compare them directly. The only way we'll know if any of them warrant a ban is by testing. People were always scared of Shadow Tag on Wobbuffet and Gothitelle, but neither of them turned out broken in Gen 5. Only time will tell.

Also, calling for quickbans in a thread claiming a lack of power creep is just funny.
 
Keep in mind the option not to mega evolve turn 1 that it's out, meaning if you have more then 1 Pokemon that can mega evolve, you can bluff it. Other then that there are advantages, such as Gengar/Charizard with X Stone vs Choiced EQ user.
 
And the idea that Mega Gengar is easily trapped by Tyranitar is laughable. Shadow Tag means it HAS to be Revenge Killed (because no Gengar user will throw him out against a ghost), and if he hits T-Tar with Focus Blast, it's VEEEERY close to an OHKO (like, 70% damage). Meaning if it's taken prior damage, like any weather starter will...
You forget that mega Gengar can't trap anything on it's first try. As soon they switch in Normal Gengar you can switch to your Pursuit trapper.
 
And the idea that Mega Gengar is easily trapped by Tyranitar is laughable. Shadow Tag means it HAS to be Revenge Killed (because no Gengar user will throw him out against a ghost), and if he hits T-Tar with Focus Blast, it's VEEEERY close to an OHKO (like, 70% damage). Meaning if it's taken prior damage, like any weather starter will...
Unless its Mega Tyranitar. Or Assault Vest Tyranitar. Or Chople Berry Tyranitar. Or your'e not using Tyranitar for Sand Stream since it got nerfed, so this is it's first time coming in. Besides, if Tyranitar survives, then Mega Gengar is as good as dead, and you just lost your mega.
 
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