So the weather wars have come to an end? On smogon at least?
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Pokémon the starters role in the metagame
- Thread starter Youngchris17
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Last gen I would have agreed on Feraligatr, but I don't think it has a place there. Which stinks, because the Gatr is my favorite pokemon. He SHOULD be viable enough to run in OU, though, so that's something.
And who needs coverage when you have a 130 BP move that also Nasty Plots and will likely come in at +1 speed AND can still run HP Fire to kill the important counters (remember, powerful nasty plot esqe attack)
If you don't mind me asking, how did they nerf hidden power?
Did they lower the base power for it?
Did they lower the base power for it?
Well... there is that Heatran fellow... for example.
Contrary Serperior isn't bad, but it has a lot of crippling things - the Hidden Power nerf really hurts it too.
Well, fair enough. Still, other pokemon have made OU even with a pretty much perfect counter to them around. Only time will tell, I guess.
Well said Mattman
Heatran walls it to hell and back if it doesn't carry hidden power ground, to then it it is walled by skarmory and dragonite. Among faster scatters and just faster Pokemon in General. And the blobs? Yeah I don't think it will be OU.
Also, Hidden Power is now set at 60
I'm aware of that, but once you're boosted enough you can still kill things - I imagine a +2 HP Fire will wreak Skarmory.
The thing I like is that if Sticky Web is up, he gets +1 speed, meaning he effectively has a Choice Scarf without the item. THAT is good in my book.
Greninja>>Delphox>>>Chesnaught
We know Greninja, the fastest Spiker ever but Deoxys and the Prankster Klefkli. Also Protean is a funny ability that can use to give up weaknesses, block rapid spin... whatever.
Delphox, despite Fire+Psychic sucks defensively, it is a great offensively, covering the majority of pokemon at least with neutral damage. If it gets Grass Knot it will be able to defeat Tyranitar.
Chesnaught, I don't know much about this pokemon but what I know does it few favours.
We know Greninja, the fastest Spiker ever but Deoxys and the Prankster Klefkli. Also Protean is a funny ability that can use to give up weaknesses, block rapid spin... whatever.
Delphox, despite Fire+Psychic sucks defensively, it is a great offensively, covering the majority of pokemon at least with neutral damage. If it gets Grass Knot it will be able to defeat Tyranitar.
Chesnaught, I don't know much about this pokemon but what I know does it few favours.
-Saur->OU most likely, even if weather got nerfed it's still the best chlorophyll user and now has a new niche outside sun with his M.evo
-Zard->OU most likely, X is the only non uber dragon besides Dragalge that is neutral to fairy, unlike Dragalge it has good stats and is neutral to ice shard. It also has a pseudo Life Orb in though claws. Y has potential, but we will see.
-Toise->Either UU or OU. it's M.evo hits harder and can kill ghosts easier, but it's too son to tell which tier it will belong to.
-Gatr->Just when it's not outclassed by Gyarados anymore, Gyarados gets a m.evo. Prolly UU, but it will work in OU just fine.
-Serperior-> Coverage problems, but Serperior loves sticky web. Depending on the popularity of the new hazard it can become a OU staple being able to outspeed even the fastest scarfers.
-Zard->OU most likely, X is the only non uber dragon besides Dragalge that is neutral to fairy, unlike Dragalge it has good stats and is neutral to ice shard. It also has a pseudo Life Orb in though claws. Y has potential, but we will see.
-Toise->Either UU or OU. it's M.evo hits harder and can kill ghosts easier, but it's too son to tell which tier it will belong to.
-Gatr->Just when it's not outclassed by Gyarados anymore, Gyarados gets a m.evo. Prolly UU, but it will work in OU just fine.
-Serperior-> Coverage problems, but Serperior loves sticky web. Depending on the popularity of the new hazard it can become a OU staple being able to outspeed even the fastest scarfers.
That's painfully low... Only 60 bp? That probably can't even ko dragonite after stealth rock
Chesnaught does have the advantage to being IMMUNE to several powerful moves with Bulletproof
Gyarados's Mega Evo loses a lot of things that normal Gyarados does. Feraligatr does what Gyaradon't, and mega evolution doesn't change that.
I have a feeling gatr will be in ou, considering he was a solid Pokemon that could run in uu if it wanted to, and DD and SD will be a big thing going for him with sheer force
Greninja-definitely will be a pretty good pokemon in UU and hopefully OU. Being able to run Spikes+U-Turn EFFECTIVELY is going to be pretty good for VoltTurn. Dark STAB is also nice with the steel type nerf.
Chesnaugt-this thing might be UU. In OU, it just gets outlcassed by Ferrothorn as a physical wall and it isn't phenomenal for attacking.
Chesnaugt-this thing might be UU. In OU, it just gets outlcassed by Ferrothorn as a physical wall and it isn't phenomenal for attacking.
I don't expect to be Bulletproof too good, however it's soon to make a strong opinion.
This pokemon has Leech Seed + Spike Shield, that does not sound bad, however.
Delphox would be a lot better if it had 116 Spd or more instead of having good Sp Def.
I doubt they'd ever give a fire type that much speed, unless its an uber of some sort
Not counting fire plate arecus
Not counting fire plate arecus
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Delphox gets Grass Knot.
Greninja will definitely be OU. Protean is an incredible offensive ability and Greninja has the stats and movepool to make it work. It also has access to Spikes so it'll be the best offensive Spiker in the OU metagame. Delphox doesn't have much of a niche imo. Victini has the same typing as it but it has a much better movepool. Chesnaught will have a hard time competing with Breloom and Virizion.
Mega Blastoise has potential as a Rapid Spinner in OU. Mega Launcher + Dark Pulse lets it beat most spin blockers. Rapid Spinning will be important this gen thanks to Sticky Web.
Mega Blastoise has potential as a Rapid Spinner in OU. Mega Launcher + Dark Pulse lets it beat most spin blockers. Rapid Spinning will be important this gen thanks to Sticky Web.
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Fixed for truth.
Didn't even know blastoise could learn dark pulse, but that a very good point, M blastoise will probably be the premier counter to spin blockers, besides spiritomb
You forgot a Spike user that's still faster than Greninja. Accelgor was still never OU and it even had Hydration.
If it wasnt for Protean offering some interesting strategies, Greninja would be about as deadweight as all the non-Blaziken starters.
Oh wait Blaziken needs Drought to Baton Pass.
But seriously:
- Neither Charizard will likely hit OU. Maybe Y due to Drought, but it only has a couple niches over other Dragon-types. And Y has the cataclysmic problem of x4 Stealth Rock weakness AND limited to 5 turns of sunlight.
- Mega Venusaur at least stands a candle chance in OU, but most offensive sets will be outclassed by regular Venusaur. Also, Mega loses Leftovers - a key item for tanks.
- Mega Blastoise is UU with almost no questions asked. It lacks a recovery move, forced to lack Leftovers, and suffers 4 MSS.
-Greninja is stupidly overhyped. Fast Spikes with Dark Pulse is nice and Protean adds a mind game, but mediocre otherwise.
- The other two bring nothing close to noteworthy on the table.
So pretty much every non-Blaziken and maybe Y-Zard will be UU or worse. Nothing groundbreaking changed. Kill the hype.
Also - Mega Gyarados has a huge boon over Feraligatr even if MDos still can't learn Crunch - Mold Breaker busts through Water Absorb.
If it wasnt for Protean offering some interesting strategies, Greninja would be about as deadweight as all the non-Blaziken starters.
Oh wait Blaziken needs Drought to Baton Pass.
But seriously:
- Neither Charizard will likely hit OU. Maybe Y due to Drought, but it only has a couple niches over other Dragon-types. And Y has the cataclysmic problem of x4 Stealth Rock weakness AND limited to 5 turns of sunlight.
- Mega Venusaur at least stands a candle chance in OU, but most offensive sets will be outclassed by regular Venusaur. Also, Mega loses Leftovers - a key item for tanks.
- Mega Blastoise is UU with almost no questions asked. It lacks a recovery move, forced to lack Leftovers, and suffers 4 MSS.
-Greninja is stupidly overhyped. Fast Spikes with Dark Pulse is nice and Protean adds a mind game, but mediocre otherwise.
- The other two bring nothing close to noteworthy on the table.
So pretty much every non-Blaziken and maybe Y-Zard will be UU or worse. Nothing groundbreaking changed. Kill the hype.
Also - Mega Gyarados has a huge boon over Feraligatr even if MDos still can't learn Crunch - Mold Breaker busts through Water Absorb.
Might be a little bit more then that, but a good way to sum everything up altogether
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