Engine Stall (full stall team)

[BonBonFire]

Introduction

Sixth gen brought us many things, bad and good. Things like mega evolutions, which I am not crazy about, as you lose an item slot. Not to mention trevenant. Oh trevenant. How stally you are. With sitrus berry it regains up to 25% hp per turn. Shadow force is effectively a protect which is safe from infiltrator, and between substitute, will-o-wisp, and leech seed, trevenant can wall almost all of the metagame, with little set-up. In fact, with leech seed, trevenant will be gaining not only an average of 12.5% HP (only 50% success rate) per turn, PLUS 12.5% of opponents health. As trevanant has lower then average HP, he will likely be regaining more then 25% per turn, or a sub per turn. This is unimaginably good. Gliscor's poison heal only gets it a sub every 2 turns. Ironically, despite all my ravings about trevenant, I only just added him to my team after my entire team being walled and slowly swept by trevenant. In the few games I have used him since, he has consistently dominated, barring a stray infiltrator crobat. However, let's move onto the team, shall we?

Quick look at the team:



"Solid Gold" (Forretress) Hazards, Spinner, Occasional tanker

Item: Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature (+def, -atk)
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rocks
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin

This is my hazard setter lead. I send him in, he stealth rocks, spins, then switches out, through volt switch or not. If the opposition is trying to scald Forretress or something silly like that then I will go for Toxic Spikes. The problem with Toxic Spikes is that if I only get 1 off, then the other team is regularly poisoned, and (I don't belive) regular poison can be overwritten by Toxic. On the other hand, there is no drawback to Spikes, except they do less damage in the long run compared to Toxic Spikes. On a related note, Toxic Spikes are removed by poison types, which can be a problem. After the hazards are set, then Forretress is used either for death fodder or to take a hit no one else can, or both.

"Washer" (Rotom-W) Defensive RestoChesto

@ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 SAtk / 252 HP / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-o-Wisp
- Rest


This is my RestoChesto Rotom-Wash. He counter a good portion of the metagame. Talonflame? No Problem. He literally walls everything. Running low on health? Rest and wake up immediatly. After that, you can either get a wish to rotom through Gardevoir, or you can rest and wait the 2 turns, or you can rest and get the Aromatherapy from Blissey.

"Ecstacy" (Blissey) Special wall and status remover

Item: Leftovers

Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Flamethrower
- Aromatherapy
- Toxic

Ahh, Blissey, does anything special kill you? If played well with the other defensive walls, it is easy for the opponents to waste away from toxic/WoW while you switch from Blissey to Gliscor to Dusclops, barely taking any damage. As well, if any member is t-waved or given a status, Blissey's aromatherapy gets rid of it. If Blissey is taking damage (Never does though :) ), then you have Soft-boiled to instantly gain back all that health. Wish Blissey is unreleased, so I cannot pass huge wishes to my teammates. Soft-boiled does have advantages though; namely, the fact that Blissey's recovery is instant, while with Wish, Blissey could die waiting for recovory.


Batman (Gliscor) SubStaller, EQ absorber

@ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 184 Def / 252 HP / 72 Spd
Impish Nature
- Protect
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Toxic

"And the award for best SubStaller goes to... GLISCOR... again..." This pokemon is one of my favorites. It can tank nearly anything physical, and a few special attacks too. Switching between Gliscor and Blissey in anticipation of physical/special moves is uncounterble (if I predict well). Poison heal heals 12.5% per turn meaning while SubStalling with protect (assuming my subs break on the first hit against them) I can stall near-indefinitely. EQ gets rid of Steel types who aren't affected by toxic. Gliscor is also my switch-in to the ever-prevalent EQ.


Fresh Fruit (Trevenant)

@ Lum Berry
Ability: Harvest
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
- Rest
- Phantom Force

I have already raved about Trevenant too much already. Look at the introduction for my explanation for Trevenant :P.

Dat Dress (Mega-Gardevoir) @ Gardevoirite

Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Calm Nature
- Moonblast
- Will-O-Wisp
- Wish
- Toxic/Protect

This is my Dragon counter. Comes in, Mega evolves, then walls like there is no tommorow. I can use her to sponge any outrages/predicted dragon moves, before WoW and halving the threat. Wish is for giving the pokemon on this team without reliable recovery some good health. Moonblast is to remove anything weak to it. I cannot decide between Toxic and Protect though. Toxic does more residual damage then WoW, but Protect allows me to be safe for a turn, giving a different pokemon a switch-in on a Wish or making sure Gardevoir lives to said Wish.

Conclusion

A very good stalling team with good predictions. I have quite a large weakness to ghost (3 have x2 weakness to ghost), special water and ice. Blissey walls ghosts and special attacks. Those weaknesses are if I misplayed Blissey and she is dead. If Blissey is alive though, no real weak spots.

Threats:

Opposing Trevenant and Gliscor. If they are played well, they can beat my own version of those pokes.

Previously Used Pokes

I used to have SubSeed Abomasnow in place of Trevenant. He didn't pull his weight however, so I cut him.



(I want to put in Steal My Team, but I cannot figure out how to make the "dropdown" type thing. Any help would be appreciated there too.)


Any tips are very welcome! Thank you for reading this!

 

[Ajwf]

[hide=Say Something][/hide]

Your team has a lot of dark weaknesses. Mainly, because of your lack of something like sacred sword on aegi, tyranitar and hydreigon can wreck your team with relative ease. Sure, ttar doesn't like being burned, but it's still a major issue when you have three ghosts lending to a huge pursuit trap weakness. And scizor can be evil, as well. Bug bite/knock off will make trevenant completely worthless for you.

Also, should you keep him, I suggest Rest>Pain Split for dusclops. Mainly because once you curse, your health return is going to be very low and decreasingly useful. It will also help with what is barring you from being full stall (you fall under semistall right now). You lack recovery very badly with the exception of blissey.

My idea would be a pokemon with access to legitimate recovery that isn't bothered by dark types (or ghost types). I'm half tempted to suggest a resttalk conckledurr set (Taking advantage of guts) but it doesn't have a terrible amount of reliability. If you do want to try the set, here is my little made up suggestions on it:

Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Drain Punch
- Payback

It will give you some fire power, some recovery, but also some inconsistency. It IS stronger asleep, but of course it doesn't mind a toxic. Major weakness being flying/psychic, you should have no issues having switch ins from glisc and the ghosts. But since this isn't pokebank, I'm limited on what else I can offer.

 

[BonBonFire]

Thank you so much for the suggestions! After I would rest with Dusclops (should I keep him) would I wait out the sleep or try to hit an aromatherapy?

 

[Smiddie]

It's a really interesting team, (I especially like the Trevenant Harvest + Sitrus Berry stall ;D,) But do you think It's a bit unbalanced with 3 Ghosts? It would be interesting to see what would happen if Dusclops was replaced by Gardevoir, because I know it can use Pain Split as well as Mega-Evolve, (and its Mega-Evolution has increased Speed and Special Defense allowing a better stall, hypothetically.) and should be tested out a bit. Gardevoir can also fire off a powerful Psychic or Moonblast in a desperate situation, which can be a bit of a pseudo-Destiny Bond (because this is situational, Gardevoir would likely die against the opponent that comes to face it after needing to unleash the Psychic/Moonblast) against an opponent weakened by Pain Split. Just a small suggestion, hope it helps!
Please reply if you tried out Gardevoir to say how it helped. I'm interested about that one.

 

[BonBonFire]

Smiddie In the games i've played with Mega-Gardevoir she has done very well. The hard part is switching her in. Regular can be easily OHKO'd by a stray physical attack, even with full HP and Def EVs. Here is set I have been playing with:
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Toxic

I think I may take some EVs out of defense, as 65 base def is far too weak.

 

[Ajwf]

At this point, the sleep mechanics aren't bad that you could stay in if you're in against an easy poke. Obviously, if you rest up, they might switch. Take the free switch turn and get out. You've got 1/2 of the sleep gone at that point and the sleep clock doesn't reset in this gen. So after pulling him, just throw him back in when you have time and get on stalling again. Of course, aromatherapy is generally a better choice but not always around.


Also, boom burst over moonblast if you have the option in OU beta. Pixilate will make boom burst more powerful than a draco meteor (almost as strong as a hydro cannon)

 

[BonBonFire]

Sadly, no boomburst. I am going to change the set soon, as Gardevoir mega works much better then Dusclops did. I find that Conkeldurr just didn't have the bulk for my style of play.

 

[NeoSeth]

Everyone's mentioned Tyranitar, but don't also forget how weak your team is to Mega Gengar. He can't come in as easily as Tyranitar, thanks to being weak to Ghost, but it's still not too hard for him to switch-in on a WoW, King's Shield or Leech Seed and get an instant kill.

With your current Trevenant set, I would recommend either changing Sitrus to Lum and dropping Substitute for Rest OR replacing him with Gorgeist and running the same moveset. Gorgeist simply puts that set to much better use, and has better bulk to counter things like Excadrill. You do need less Ghosts, though, and your team can be picked apart fairly easily by LO Mamoswine and MixTar. You REALLY need a strong stop to Excadrill, since if he's running Balloon Gliscor can't do jack and he's free to stat-up to +6. So Gourgeist is my top recommendation. You can even run Seed Bomb over Phantom Force, although T-Tar and Mamo probably won't switch in, fearing a burn.

In addition, when playing stall, it is generally a bad idea to put all your hazards on one Pokemon. If Forretress does down (Magnezone, wazzap), you lose your hazards AND your spinner. So, I recommend replacing Duskinoir with Skarmory. Skamory is arguably the best physical wall in the game, and can run Spikes and Whirlwind to give your team a stronger hazard core. Max HP/Def Impish Skarm with just enough speed to outrun minspeed Mega-Tar (8 EVs outta do it) sounds solid, with a set of Brave Bird/Roost/Spikes/Whirlwind. Some people like running Iron Head over Brave Bird, but quite frankly I think they're silly. Skarmory can also stop physical Tyranitar and Mamoswine, although MixTar will get past you (and so can MixMamo, although with the weather nerf I doubt you'll see him.)

Replacing Spikes/TS on Forry with Gyro Ball is another change I'd suggest. Forry without an attack is HUGE set-up bait, and Gyro Ball gives him a way to actually HIT Mamoswine and T-Tar, two Pokemon he should be able to stop (Again, watch out for MixTar, who'll OHKO you with a Fire-move). Gyro Ball also stops him from being Substitute bait. You can run Earthquake to hit Heatran, but Gyro Ball has been more consistent for me.

Now looking at your team, you have two Ghosts but now three Steels after these changes. If I had suggest one more change, it would be Aegislash. He's just not a good fit for a stall team. He does provide a lot of offensive presence, but defensively he doesn't do as much as other Pokemon. However, I'm not too sure what to suggest. A strong defensive Water-type would be GREAT, as bulky Water-types are excellent counters to Tyranitar and Mamoswine, two of the biggest threats to your team. I recommend Defensive Rotom-W, who provides a decent check to T-Tar and Mamoswine with powerful STAB moves and Will-o-Wisp. I'm not too familiar with the set, but the Gen V set should be a good starting point. Rotom also isn't weak to Tyranitar and Mamoswine's coverage moves.

As a final thought, if SR is legal on Blissey, you may want to consider dropping Toxic for it and running Toxic Spikes on Forry. And I do not recommend Shadow Ball on Blisssey; Ice Beam or Flamethrower makes for a MUCH better option. You don't have to make all or any of these changes, but I hope they were food for thought!

 

[Ajwf]

NeoSeth's suggestions aren't bad, but I wouldn't replace dusclops for skarm... Even if you want skarm, the best ghost to replace for skarm would be trevenant or aegislash. Otherwise, you have fire weaknesses from skarm, forrey, trevenant, and aegislash. (I think we largely overlooked fire earlier in adjusting this team to allow 3 fire weaknesses to go unaddressed... ghost and dark just was so overbearing). Defensive rotom, however, is always a good idea. Probably rest chesto berry to give recovery there, as well.

 

[BonBonFire]

I implemented most of the suggested suggestions. Thank you so much! Anybody else have any suggestions? They are much appreciated!

 

[NeoSeth]

That's true. Although this team doesn't have too much trouble with Talonflame and Volcarona, Blaziken is a problem. He can't be burned. If I had to pick something to counter him it would be Azumarill, and I'm not super fond of using him on a stall team. He has no recovery and his bulk isn't super-fantastic. What defensive mon stops SD Speed Boost Mega-Blaziken?

 

[BonBonFire]

I've been stalling blaziken with Gliscor. Flare Blitz/High Jump Kick only do 30-40% to Gliscor, and then I can set up a sub and start SubStalling. I've had him Toxic'd by that point.

By the way, SR isn't available on Blissey yet. Where should I stick it, considering I do not know who to switch out for skam, and I haven't decided if I wanted him or not.

 

[NeoSeth]

SR should go on Forry. He doesn't have steady recovery, so I've never been a fan of leaving him in to set up hazards.

 

[BonBonFire]

NeoSeth If I stick SR on Forretress, then I'd have to remove a move. I do not think that any of the moves on Forretress could be sacrificed. I need G-ball to kill T-Tar and Mamo, need Toxic Spikes for him to set up, need Volt Switch to get away from Magnazone, and need Rapid Spin to remove hazards.

 

[Exeggutive]

Hi cool stall team. I have a few changes that help though.

First make blissey bold and max def. The extra spec def evs do nothing considering blisseys ridiculous spec def already.

I'd run spec def heatran over gardevoir. He is a great aegislash check (who does serious damage to this team if mixed) and can threaten Dragon s with roar or a status. It also has amazing synergy with gliscor and trevenant thanks to their fight/ground resistances. It can I'd use roar, lava plume, sr and wow/toxic. And drop sr for spikes/tspikes on forry.

If gliscor is troubling you, try hp ice on forry over volt switch. I think it needs like 80 evs or something to 2hko.

 

[Ajwf]

That's true. Although this team doesn't have too much trouble with Talonflame and Volcarona, Blaziken is a problem. He can't be burned. If I had to pick something to counter him it would be Azumarill, and I'm not super fond of using him on a stall team. He has no recovery and his bulk isn't super-fantastic. What defensive mon stops SD Speed Boost Mega-Blaziken?

Well obviously PS! just banned blaziken, but the best defensive mon for him was slowbro. Right now, the dark weakness is fixed, fire weakness is less of an issue and the ghost weakness... well, two weaknesses to one immunity and one resist? Issue is, should that ghost be mega gengar, blissey might not make it out alive. Flamethrower probably will help but a sub/disable/perish song gengar will get blissey bad. Not that I would worry too much, that's a possibility for everyone running a cleric right now. And mega gengar should be suspected the first week of pokebank.

 

[NeoSeth]

Also, if you replace Gardevoir with Heatran, then keeping Spikes on Forry is quite alright. On teams that use both Skarmory and Forry, I recommend Sr on Forry so he has to take less hits to ease his lack of recovery.

 

[BonBonFire]

This team is pre-pokebank, so no Heatran yet.

 

[Smiddie]

Everyone's mentioned Tyranitar, but don't also forget how weak your team is to Mega Gengar. He can't come in as easily as Tyranitar, thanks to being weak to Ghost, but it's still not too hard for him to switch-in on a WoW, King's Shield or Leech Seed and get an instant kill.

With your current Trevenant set, I would recommend either changing Sitrus to Lum and dropping Substitute for Rest OR replacing him with Gorgeist and running the same moveset. Gorgeist simply puts that set to much better use, and has better bulk to counter things like Excadrill. You do need less Ghosts, though, and your team can be picked apart fairly easily by LO Mamoswine and MixTar. You REALLY need a strong stop to Excadrill, since if he's running Balloon Gliscor can't do jack and he's free to stat-up to +6. So Gourgeist is my top recommendation. You can even run Seed Bomb over Phantom Force, although T-Tar and Mamo probably won't switch in, fearing a burn.

In addition, when playing stall, it is generally a bad idea to put all your hazards on one Pokemon. If Forretress does down (Magnezone, wazzap), you lose your hazards AND your spinner. So, I recommend replacing Duskinoir with Skarmory. Skamory is arguably the best physical wall in the game, and can run Spikes and Whirlwind to give your team a stronger hazard core. Max HP/Def Impish Skarm with just enough speed to outrun minspeed Mega-Tar (8 EVs outta do it) sounds solid, with a set of Brave Bird/Roost/Spikes/Whirlwind. Some people like running Iron Head over Brave Bird, but quite frankly I think they're silly. Skarmory can also stop physical Tyranitar and Mamoswine, although MixTar will get past you (and so can MixMamo, although with the weather nerf I doubt you'll see him.)

Replacing Spikes/TS on Forry with Gyro Ball is another change I'd suggest. Forry without an attack is HUGE set-up bait, and Gyro Ball gives him a way to actually HIT Mamoswine and T-Tar, two Pokemon he should be able to stop (Again, watch out for MixTar, who'll OHKO you with a Fire-move). Gyro Ball also stops him from being Substitute bait. You can run Earthquake to hit Heatran, but Gyro Ball has been more consistent for me.

Now looking at your team, you have two Ghosts but now three Steels after these changes. If I had suggest one more change, it would be Aegislash. He's just not a good fit for a stall team. He does provide a lot of offensive presence, but defensively he doesn't do as much as other Pokemon. However, I'm not too sure what to suggest. A strong defensive Water-type would be GREAT, as bulky Water-types are excellent counters to Tyranitar and Mamoswine, two of the biggest threats to your team. I recommend Defensive Rotom-W, who provides a decent check to T-Tar and Mamoswine with powerful STAB moves and Will-o-Wisp. I'm not too familiar with the set, but the Gen V set should be a good starting point. Rotom also isn't weak to Tyranitar and Mamoswine's coverage moves.

As a final thought, if SR is legal on Blissey, you may want to consider dropping Toxic for it and running Toxic Spikes on Forry. And I do not recommend Shadow Ball on Blisssey; Ice Beam or Flamethrower makes for a MUCH better option. You don't have to make all or any of these changes, but I hope they were food for thought!

Snorlax could be a pretty great wall against Mega-Gengar. With Snorlax's good Special Defense, it can most likely survive a powerful Focus Blast and return for some damage against Mega Gengar with Crunch. Also, for Gardevoir Will-o-Wisp will make her a better Physical wall as well as a Special wall, so I'd recommend that.

Also, Gardevoir can become a Physical and Special wall with Will-o-Wisp, so I'd recommend that over Toxic, despite its unreliability.