Other Is Weather Still Viable?

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If drizzle and swift swim are allowed on the same team this generation, rain would definately remain a viable play style. It would be more manegable than rain offense last gen even without swift swimmers, but kingdra could still serve as an excellent late game sweeper if allowed with politoed.

I think its also healthy for the metagame, as now you have to be stategic with your weather starter, instead of just leading with it and spamming hydro pump/ hurricane.
 
One thing people need to take into account is this: the biggest opponents for weather teams... are other weather teams. Weather teams sort of received a pseudo-buff in that their main competition was also nerfed.

I think weather is definitely still viable; rain teams just can't Hydro Pump gg anymore. Weather users merely need to play around with their inducers a bit more tactically.
 
I feel so bad for Heliolisk. It was made to be THE weather Pokemon, with abilities that benifitted from each kind of weather... And GF nerfs the weather in the same gen. Troll Freak at its finest.
That's one (new) Pokemon that gets trolled, as opposed to nearly half the metagame being unusable because of perma-weather.
 
Before DW Ninetails and Politoad, it was quite effective in my experience when using the rocks(damp, heat), i'm positive it will continue to stay good, and tbh much more satisfying now, at least for me. I had a rain dance/sunny day team before B/W, but Ninetails and Politoad made it so easy i stopped using, i look forward to try that again.
 
I'm finding an actual politoed to be much more versatile than a rain dance user. Taking an entire turn to set up rain can really set you behind in a match, unless maybe if the user gets a swift swim boost. It's also a great way to get your rain setter killed.
Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Hypnosis
- Perish Song
- Encore
Dat's mah Politoed. Just needs to live long, and MAYBE cause a little havoc. It's important to be sure that your team doesn't depend on the weather too much, as you will only be using rain for about 30-40% of the match against even non-weather teams. Things like Ferrothorn, Tentacruel, strong electric types, and strong water types fit this description.
 
Of course it's still viable, but it's much more of an unreliable gimmick that doesn't need to always be planned for when building teams. It's harder to build these teams now as you'll be needing to keep your weather setter for as long as you possibly can as well. I recommend having two or three pokémon on a weather team that can work well outside of the weather too. Heliolisk is a great option for any weather team, I had a rain team that ran one with Solar Power. It served as an extremely effective counter to any sun teams, with moves like Surf to take advantage of too.
 
Maybe weather now is comparable to what Trick Room has always been: a powerful strategy that's difficult to pull off sometimes but can easily overwhelm unprepared teams. Also, thread revival to the max.
 
I've been testing a sun team on simulators, and its working great. The key is to have lots of pivots and such to ensure lots of switches for my sun setter, and have a back up ready. MegaZardY and sunny day Venusaur together have kicked tail and when supported by heavy hitters like Infernape and Rotom-H that can Uturn/Voltswitch out, I have no trouble keeping sun up. I'm hoping on making similar teams for the other weathers (maybe not snow) when I never would in previous generations because I can actually pull it off without having to constantly fight for weather control like last gen. Can't wait til pokebank comes out so I can bring the whole crew together for real.
 
I can say from experience that Drizzle Swim teams are going to still be a nightmare. The way the type chart works out and the coverage moves that Swift Swimmers get means rain offense is always a huge problem to face. Even bulky offense has trouble stomaching rain-boosted attacks without an immunity or two. I've handled almost every sand and sun team so far, but Drizzle Swim teams have so far beaten me without fail.
 
Even without being permanent, auto-Rain or Sun is still a ridiculously powerful ability. Drizzle basically gives Politoed a 4x Fire Resists and Special Water type V-Create without the stat drops. Even outside of all the support it can lend its team, I'm finding Specs Toed to perfectly viable as an attacker. The prevalence of bulky Rotom-W is an annoyance but thankfully most of them are physically defensive which means you are typically doing an easy 40-50%.

You might not be able to get massive support for your entire team for only switching in a mon once, but weather is by no means bad. Especially considering that Swift Swim + Drizzle is unbanned and old abusers like Tornadus T are back Rain is still tremendously powerful.
 
I've been using Rain quite effectively, though the main reason is that you can abuse the hell out of Manaphy (truly an incredible poke, especially in the Rain) and Swift Swim. Tornadus-T yeah ok, but Rotom-W is so common that I prefer not to use it really. Swift Swim Omastar for example hits really hard, gets Shell Smash to sweep should Rain not be up, and counters all kinds of Talonflame (even with Steel Wing because it's part Water). I don't recommend a full team of just rain abusers though, you want a good defensive core like Politoed/Ferro/Landy-T (a classic core but still works really well, maybe even more than before). The more support, the more effective the team will be.

I've also used Sun, works pretty well but it's difficult to face pokes like Heatran and T-tar no matter how you build your team. If they don't run either of those, they will be in for a very hard time, though. If you remember the matchup of weatherless vs Sun in gen 5 you know what I'm talking about. Very hard to stop a well-played Venusaur. And it's fun to use, which is important too ofcourse.
 
Would a 2-3 Pokemon weather "core" work now that weather lasts 5 turns?
Say, a Charizard Y, who hits pretty hard with sun-boosted fire attacks and a one-turn Solarbeam. When it faints, bring in the next sun-boosted Pokemon, like Venusaur. Grab a few growth boosts before Sun runs out.

I'm not sure if this duo would work in practice, but would something similar work?
This way, instead of weather defining the whole team, it would give 1-2 mons the boost they need.

First post, sorry if it isn't up to standard.
 
Sun teams can utilize Mega Houndoom with Solar Power
I use a sun team that does pretty well, I mean Mega-Charizard X in the sun can OHKO most threats unboosted with flare blitz (I don't play pokebank so that'll be replaced with Fire Punch after Pokebank) and can sweep with a boost or two with sun and Dragon Claw and Flare Blitz.

Also Solar Power Helioisk is not to be sneezed at, especially when you run volt switch because then you don't suffer recoil damage.
 
Here's my analysis of how weather'll be this

Rain:
-The rain stall and abilities like Rain Dish, Hydration, and Dry Skin will no longer be viable central strategies for pokemon. They may still be used, but as a helpful side effect rather than the main goal for setting weather.
-Rain will now be focused on the offensive merits like the damage output of rain boosted hydro pumps/surfs/waterfalls/aqua jets and the speed boost of swift swim to overcome enemy walls/sweepers
-Rain Dance will be the dominant weather setter with Politoed mostly ignored outside of choice specs wallbreaking (70 base spe shouldn't try to sweep imo)
-Rain will be confined to 1-3 users per team to form a core, and the idea of a rain team will be mostly abandoned (though probably not completely). The rest of the team will focus on countering threats to common rain pokemon and supporting with hazards, dual screens, and other potentially useful conditions to allow easier usage

Sand:
-The 1/16 passive damage will be more valuable for forcing switches than the actual damage, but will still be important to the weather's use
-The SpD boost will apply almost solely to Ttar getting safe switches and trapping/revenge killing special attackers.
-Sandstorm will rarely be used as the real value of sand lies in Hippowdon and Tyranitar's power and not in the weather itself
-Sand will usually be confined to 1 setter and 1 user, and the rest of the team will work independent of those 2

Sun:
-Sun's role actually will stay pretty similar. There'll probably be 1 or 2 setters, protected by several sweepers utilizing boosted flare blitzes/Fire Blasts or Chlorophyll to take out threats to the setters.
-Sunny Day and Drought will both see usage as there are multiple ways to utilize this weather, but if the goal is sun support, sunny day will probably be necessary while Drought is less practical.

Snow:
-Abomasnow can spam blizzard
-Tanks with Ice body can use the passive recovery and the passive damage to stall, just it'll be a pretty isolated fight focused on the 1v1 rather than taking on entire teams
-Snow will see almost no usage because its so inferior and really isn't worth the effort

General:
-Sets will spring up that operate outside these basic guidelines, but they'll be focused on countering the metagame, not changing it
-The metagame will no longer be considered a weather war, but weather is still a very dangerous and certainly viable strategy
-Beating a player at the weather war (just calling it that because its what I'm used to) no longer guarantees victory, just ensures you won't get annihilated without a fight
-If you have any intention in competing competitively, having a weather counter is a must.

If anyone notices I missed something or thinks some of my points assume too much, feel free to respond
 
Here's my analysis of how weather'll be this

Rain:

-Rain Dance will be the dominant weather setter with Politoed mostly ignored outside of choice specs wallbreaking
I agree with most of what you are saying but i really think you underestimate ptoed and the value of auto weather ,
first of all politoed can summon a 8 turns rain thanks to the damp rock , that might not seem a lot but if you consider that the average HO vs HO ou match up usually ends in less than 16 turns and its decided much earlier all you need from the toed is two synchronized switches over the course of the match given that you are fighting an non weather team , of course toed wont have the luxury to hold an offensive or a defensive item this will force its sets to be more "survivalistic" and more conservative things like rest, sleep talk and other elements that ensure longevity will be seen more often not only on toed sets but in every weather inducer.
Furthermore auto weather inducers will most likely win the weather war against a manual weather team even if it has more than one setters or at least that's what my experience with rain dance UU teams VS Hail /Sand teams tells me, i don't know if the turn limitation of auto weather will change much.


sorry for my English i am European
 
I think that trying to find a counter for weather is a false premise. You should try to check the Pokemon that use weather. Which I don't think is especially hard to do in the current meta with all the bulk and priority around. The main threat of the most powerful weathers (Rain and Sun) is to make things hit hard and/or fast which is not especially threatening as everything is hitting hard and/or fast these days. So while weather is strong it is a means to an end, an end everyone else is also reaching without the need for weather.
 
I wish that they would up Hail, because as of right now, Hail is the most inferior out of all of the weathers. Hell, it's always been the most inferior. Sun boosts Fire moves, gives a one-turn Solarbeam, hurts Pokémon with Dry Skin and boosts Solar Power, and weakens Water moves. Rain makes Thunder 100% accurate, boosts Water moves, restores Pokémon with Rain Dish and Dry Skin, and weakens Fire moves. Sand boosts Rock-types Sp. Def by 50%, hurts any type that isn't Rock, Steel, or Ground, and boosts some moves with Sand Force and Speed with Sand Rush. What exactly does Hail do? Heals HP with Ice Body, hurts any type that isn't Ice, and a 100% Blizzard. Yippie. Why not boost Ice types' defenses? Ice is the worst defensive type, it needs a huge boost to be even somewhat viable in competitive battling, but it doesn't look like it's happening any time soon. Hail just isn't worth putting up, compared to Sand or Sun or Rain.
 
Abomasnow might be known as anti-weather but Abomasnow is not all about being anti-weather and therefore is still a very viable Pokémon.

Take a closer look at Abomasnow and you'll see it's just like your other OU viable grass type:

It's attacking stats are pretty average but with STAB moves even stronger than Earthquake, Abomasnow can and will hit like a truck. It even hits at both side of the spectrum, which is pretty neat. Its Speed stat is pretty low, which can be bothersome sometimes.

It's physical defense is pretty average but it's not much of an issue as Abomasnow has specially based resistances, not physical. Speaking of Sp Bulk, 90/85 is pretty good, for comparison, it's almost equal to the well-known Sp Wall, Zapdos.

Now it looks like Abomasnow is just a subpar grass type, but Abomasnow's unique typing, along with its unique movepool(and ability!) that no other Pokémon posses, makes it perfectly viable in the tier and is no gimmicky.

Obamasnow is part Ice, this is actually a huge boon for Obamasnow as it allows it to threaten grass types that attempt to stop his SubSeeding or to be not weak to Water-types' ever common Ice type coverage. It's Ice typing also means that Abomasnow can threaten those pesky Dragons who tend to switch-in on other Grass types used in OU. The only real downside of Ice typing is the weakness to Rock, which means...

The problem with most people is that they treat Abomasnow as an anti-weather and/or as an Ice type. This is correct, but wrong too, I'll justify why.

Abomasnow is anti-weather but should not be played as such because Abomasnow requires dedicated team support, it's not like when you're struggling against weather teams, you slap in Abomasnow, it won't work. Rather, Abomasnow should be played as a weather inducer itself. Like I said, Abomasnow needs a dedicated crew just like other weather inducers. Hail might have no real abusers, but a Hail team use Hail to take advantage of having no boosting weather in play and having residual damage every turn, if you're NOT using hail for this reason, you're using it incorrectly.

Abomasnow is an Ice type but should not be played as such. Rather, it should be played as (the bane of Water-type) a Grass-type. Switching on Electric/Water/Ground/Grass attacks is what a grass type does and then proceed to deal some damage obv. When dealing with Water types, Abomasnow nerfs the possible rain and is not weak to Ice, giving it an edge in the competition.

Another misconceptions are that people treat Hail as another weather to abuse or poor hail no abusers and Abomasnow is frail. Hail is a very neutral weather, "Rain boosts Water and debuffs Fire and Sun..." it's very obvious that hail is not meant to be abused. Sand also falls on the same boat, with Ttar and the few Sand Rush/Force being the only real "abusers". People also say Abomanow is 'frail' or dies easily because of its many weaknesses, but Grass types always had a lot of weaknesses ; Grass type offer great resistances but many weaknesses(2 are uncommon) and therefore, should be played with care. No, StallRein sucked in GenV OU.

Abomasnow's Mega Form is pretty good too, and no, it's not only limited to TR sweeping. Mega Abomasnow can be also played like a 'Bulky Band/Specs'. Switch in on something that can't threaten you or is witlessly scared, and deal massive damage to whatever switches in. Mega Abomasnow lacks a boosting item but makes up for it by having high-powered STABs, being able to hit in both sides, and the ability to switch moves(most common scenario of switching moves is hitting the switch-in and finishing it with Ice Shard).



tl ; dr, Abomasnow is still very viable.
 
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Full Hail Stall is pretty much dead, even with Icy Rock it's not practical to have to switch in Abomasnow repeatedly because it's already weak to SR, and 8 turns of Hail are not nearly as valuable as 8 turns of Rain or Sun. Sure, it's chip damage, but when a move like Protect is vital on Hail Stall you realize that 8 turns is basically nothing, as you're going to stall it out yourself to rack up poison+hail damage on the opponent.

The only time you should really be using hail is when you use Mega Abomasnow, which honestly isn't even a bad poke at all! It's dirt slow, but that means it gets up Hail against any other auto-weather. It also breaks Sash leads. It was the first poke I put on my team in XY OU because it looked so appealing to me. The main reason I actually think it is good though is it's coverage. If you're good at predicting this guy is a monster. Not many pokes can take both Blizzard and Wood Hammer and EQ. And you get a powerful STAB Ice Shard too as a bonus. Then again, it does require good teambuilding to be very effective but I do like building teams around original pokes. Even more satisfying if the team actually works too.
 
Abomasnow is an Ice type but should not be played as such. Rather, it should be played as (the bane of Water-type) a Grass-type. Switching on Electric/Water/Ground/Grass attacks is what a grass type does and then proceed to deal some damage obv. When dealing with Water types, Abomasnow nerfs the possible rain and is not weak to Ice, giving it an edge in the competition.
I agree that Abo (one of my favorite Pokemon out there), is played as you describe, but I think there is not a single way of playing Ice types. More than any other type, each solid Pokemon with Ice typing must be played to its particular strenghts.
 
So I think an interesting question is: If you opt for sunny day/rain dance/ sandstorm, which mons do the job best? (I'll look only at rain for the sake of simplicity)
My first thought is bulky mons with recovery: Chansey, Slowbro, Gastrodon, Crobat, Gliscor, etc
My next is mons with natural cure that can rest off damage: Starmie, Roserade
Perhaps pokemon that are healed by rain itself?:Blastoise, Ludicolo, Tentacruel, Heliolisk
Or even swift swimmers who get immediate benefits to speed and power: Kingdra, Omastar, Kabutops, Ludicolo, etc
I personally prefer to just use Politoed for the moment, but it's interesting to consider whether something such as Slowbro or Tentacruel may make better inducers.
 
So I think an interesting question is: If you opt for sunny day/rain dance/ sandstorm, which mons do the job best? (I'll look only at rain for the sake of simplicity)
My first thought is bulky mons with recovery: Chansey, Slowbro, Gastrodon, Crobat, Gliscor, etc
My next is mons with natural cure that can rest off damage: Starmie, Roserade
Perhaps pokemon that are healed by rain itself?:Blastoise, Ludicolo, Tentacruel, Heliolisk
Or even swift swimmers who get immediate benefits to speed and power: Kingdra, Omastar, Kabutops, Ludicolo, etc
I personally prefer to just use Politoed for the moment, but it's interesting to consider whether something such as Slowbro or Tentacruel may make better inducers.
Thundurus was always a great Rain inducer, thanks to priority with Prankster and can immediately benefit from using STAB Thunder. Klefki also gets priority and can come in handy since it mitigates his Fire weakness.
 
I agree that Abo (one of my favorite Pokemon out there), is played as you describe, but I think there is not a single way of playing Ice types. More than any other type, each solid Pokemon with Ice typing must be played to its particular strenghts.
I think this the way to play. People in bw2 ubers used t-tar in this manner. People just need to build teams that work well in weather. Half of the usefulness of weather was being taken out with many abilities that benefited from eeather got banned
 
Politoed may see some use as a Water-type wallbreaker whose team support abilties are secondary, if used at all. Rain can make Politoed's STAB attacks more powerful than Palkia's, and even with sand all Tyranitar are 2HKO'd by a Specs-boosted Hydro Pump.
 
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