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[QC Ready 0/3] Gengar
- Thread starter CrobatFTW
- Start date
Now that MegaGengar has been banned from OU, Focus Sash DBond Gengar should be taken in higher consideration for a similar strategic function. Not exactly the same, but KOing that particular pokémon is often the turning point that decides who's gonna win, and a good player can do that even with this set (at least, I'm obtaining really high success with it, and I'm not that champion).
There absolutely NEEDS to be a Sub Utility set on here somewhere. Gengar has a ton of awesome support moves that work very well behind a Substitute. Something like this would work:
name: Sub Utility
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Disable / Pain Split / Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Focus Blast / Sludge Bomb
ability: Levitate
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid
Obviously the slashing of the utility move is up for debate, but this is, in my opinion, the best Gengar set out there. It can counter Mega Kangaskhan without Crunch, as well as all revenge killing Choice Scarfers if it's behind a Sub (assuming it has Disable). Pain Split is awesome in tandem with Life Orb and Sub, letting you whittle your HP down, and then heal it all back while taking a chunk out of the opponent's at the same time. Will-O-Wisp is also an amazing move, as it can burn common physical switch-ins to Gengar such as Assault Vest Ttar and Scizor. This is why this set HAS to be on here (in my opinion it should be the first set).
name: Sub Utility
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Disable / Pain Split / Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Focus Blast / Sludge Bomb
ability: Levitate
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid
Obviously the slashing of the utility move is up for debate, but this is, in my opinion, the best Gengar set out there. It can counter Mega Kangaskhan without Crunch, as well as all revenge killing Choice Scarfers if it's behind a Sub (assuming it has Disable). Pain Split is awesome in tandem with Life Orb and Sub, letting you whittle your HP down, and then heal it all back while taking a chunk out of the opponent's at the same time. Will-O-Wisp is also an amazing move, as it can burn common physical switch-ins to Gengar such as Assault Vest Ttar and Scizor. This is why this set HAS to be on here (in my opinion it should be the first set).
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According to Serebii, Pain Split is 5th gen Only, so that means it cannot be used right now?
But that's basically the SubDisable set I asked QC about, just with the addition of WoW. When I get back home later today I'll write it up.
Choice Scarf set:
It should be "Pursuit users are the bane of this set's existence", not "Pursuit users are the vain of this set's existence".
Alternative options on choice scarf set:
Depends what your team needs, surely? Dazzling Gleam and Energy Ball are both reasonable slashes, depending on necessity. My choice scarf Gengar actually has Shadow Ball/Sludge Bomb/Dazzling Gleam/Energy Ball, which gives amazing coverage. I'm not a fan of Focus Miss if I can avoid it.
It should be "Pursuit users are the bane of this set's existence", not "Pursuit users are the vain of this set's existence".
Alternative options on choice scarf set:
Depends what your team needs, surely? Dazzling Gleam and Energy Ball are both reasonable slashes, depending on necessity. My choice scarf Gengar actually has Shadow Ball/Sludge Bomb/Dazzling Gleam/Energy Ball, which gives amazing coverage. I'm not a fan of Focus Miss if I can avoid it.
A lot.
- Naive Salamence
- Jolly Garchomp
- Jolly Pinsir (granted Quick Attack sucks to face)
- Jolly / Timid Charizards
- Jolly Haxorus
- Timid / Naive Hydreigon
- Timid Volcarona (+0)
- Timid MegaGardevoir
- Jolly MegaMedicham
- Jolly MegaKangaskhan
Also a lot of slightly irrelevant newmons (Timid Heliolisk, Timid Delphox, Jolly Meinshao, etc).
Unless I'm mistaken (or it was proven recently), according to Serebii Trick is Gen 5 Only Move (Move Tutor in Gen 5).
BTW maybe you would mention at least in OO Specs set ? With Steel nerf it's more usable, although relies on prediction (especially in case of TTar/MegaKangashkan). Used it myself with decent success, especially good with Dugtrio support to trap Tyranitar (although Focus Blast easily 2HKO all versions of Tyranitar on switch).
Stone RG
Megas are broke
Tbh all those are just addings compared to outruinning the 108 speed tier, and being in the 110 one. Tho thats pokebank, were only 18 days away from it.
On the subject of the sets, i want to give my opinion on some of the current sets:
- ''Standard'': i would personally scrap protect and have Taunt in the second slash to Sub, i personally see no merit in having protect other than scouting for revenge killers, and due to Sub and Gengar's potential at forcing switches, and the fact that it slows down the opponent's momentum, i see it as the better option in all cases, and Taunt works better off against stall either way. Also, i think the Hidden pwoer slash should be moved to sludge bomb, since FB is too important at bypassing Ttar, and i think HP ice would be a more useful move overall due to the ddragons and Gliscor. To be clear i think it should be:
name: Standard
move 1: Substitute / Taunt
move 2: Sludge Bomb / Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Focus Blast
ability: Levitate
item: Leftovers / Life Orb (dont know in which order this 2 would go)
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid
- Focus Sash: now, i havent played THAT much of Pokebank, but i dont think Taunt is that much of a staple in this set, even if Dbond + Taunt forces mind games, given Gengar's relative weakness when it comes to KOing stuff, and its frailty, i dont think it can be taken advantage of that well. Due to those reasons, i think Taunt and Focus Blast should exchange places, since Sludge bomb seems like the least necessary of the 3 attacking moves, again due to the lack of coverage it brings to the table most of the time.
- Choice Scarf: i think the set should be scrapped, but i highly doubt it would be unanimous, either way imo should be the last option due to general problems Gengar has as a revenge killer (hint: its frail and weak w/o LO).
I typed up the entire Sub Utility set, but alas, a site error killed it. I spent a good 20 minutes on it......... I'll be sure to work on it again over the next day or so...
But I feel that in regards to the Standard set, Hidden Power Fire is OO at best. Focus Blast is usually good enough to hit Steel-Types in combination with a Shadow Ball on a switch. HP Fire is just so weak... HP Ice might deserve a slash though, but I have not used it because I usually find Thunderbolt better for my team's needs. Can someone second this?
I'll test out the Focus Sash set a bit more and report back.
In regards to the scarf set, I have played it with great success. I personal feel it is one of Gengar's better sets because of its unpredictability. Suddenly, with Thunderbolt for example, Scarf Gengar outspeeds Greninja for an OHKO with TBolt. Or if it is Ice-or Dark-Type, Focus Blast.
But I feel that in regards to the Standard set, Hidden Power Fire is OO at best. Focus Blast is usually good enough to hit Steel-Types in combination with a Shadow Ball on a switch. HP Fire is just so weak... HP Ice might deserve a slash though, but I have not used it because I usually find Thunderbolt better for my team's needs. Can someone second this?
I'll test out the Focus Sash set a bit more and report back.
In regards to the scarf set, I have played it with great success. I personal feel it is one of Gengar's better sets because of its unpredictability. Suddenly, with Thunderbolt for example, Scarf Gengar outspeeds Greninja for an OHKO with TBolt. Or if it is Ice-or Dark-Type, Focus Blast.
Don't forget Timid Espeon and the Timid Lati's. Gengar still has that nasty Psychic weakness.
Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Will-O-Wisp / Disable / Sludge Bomb / Destiny Bond
Is my order of slash preference. I think Ghost/Fighting coverage is unquestionably optimal, so Sludge Bomb really isn't a great alternative to Focus Blast. I prefer Will-O-Wisp to Disable because it's proactive instead of reactive, is useful in more situations, and provides team synergy. A burn also spoils the day for ANY Kangaskhan.