Baton Pass

[Kavrae]

Hello, this is my first attempt an an OU team since gen 4. As you can imagine, this means I'll be a bit behind in the metagame and so I expect things to be a bit harsh. This team has been heavily revamped since its posting, with the OP being constantly changed to reflect the alterations.

Summary
The main idea behind this team is to start with Scolipede to baton pass as many speed boosts and sword dances as possible. Then move on to a transitional baton pass to one of my tanky duo, Sylveon or Vaporeon, based on what I need or can survive a few hits with. They will also provide additional def or s.def to the chain. The second baton pass will end the chain with my sweepers. Espeon can be switched in against hazards or as a special sweeper with enough boosts.

Noted Problems
* Talonflame Lead with more than 12 EVs invested in HP

*Phasers

Questions
*Should I remove 4 HP EVs from Scolipede and place them in defense? This would reduce my number of substitutes to three, but would allow Starf Berry to activate on the third instead of the fourth.

*Vaporeon currently acts as a risky check to Talonflame leads. Beyond this, both of my tanks are mixed with roughly equal def and s.def. Would I be better off making Sylveon a dedicated special tank and trading Vaporeon for a Poison Heal Gliscor?

* Should Scolipede's Starf Berry be traded for a Lum Berry to help against lead Klefkis?

*Should Espeon's Leftovers be traded for a Salac berry? This could be used to get a final hit in with a more powerful Stored Power or baton pass it on to something else.

Team Breakdown

Janna (Ninjask) (F) @ Red Card
Fiddlesticks (Scolipede) (F) @ Starf Berry
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 24 Spe / 236 Def / 248 HP
EVs: 252 HP/ 116 Def / 140 Spe
Bold Nature
Timid Nature
- Baton Pass
- Protect
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
​

I recently changed my lead from Ninjask to a Scolipede of the same set. The initial loss of speed is negligible as a first turn protect will put my on par with most starters allowing for a safe sustitute. The main draw is that I can now handle priority using leads. A single bullet punch from a life orbed scizor with once swords dance will hit for 99% damage, while one without will deal 49%. This allows for a safe baton pass regardless of which route they take. Generally the random stat boost from Starf is a gamble, but I have a diverse enough set of baton pass recipients that this is actually beneficial.​

Sona (Sylveon) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixelate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Baton Pass
- Calm Mind
- Wish
- Draining Kiss
- Moon Blast
- Hyper Voice​

Sylveon is set up as a mixed defensive wall relying on Wish and Leftovers to keep it healthy long enough to pass on a few Calm Minds to either Espeon or Infernape. I've also considered Celebi for this position, though I ended up with some issues against fast fire types with that change. Moon Blast gives it a little more power over Draining Kiss, who's healing is typically overkill.​

Nami (Vaporeon) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 244 HP / 136 Def / 128 Spd
EVs: 238 HP / 228 Def / 44 S.Atk
Bold Nature
- Baton Pass
- Surf
- Aqua Ring
- Scald
- Acid Armor​

Vaporeon has been remade for a single reason: Talonflame. I've noticed that this is a common starter that my Scoliopede simply can't handle even a single hit from. Assuming Talonflame runs 252 Atk 252 Speed 4HP and Life Orb, I can take two priority Brave Birds on the switch and get off a single Surf that will hit for 100% damage. That situation aside, Vaporeon's primary use is to pass Aqua Ring (where I would prefer Ingrain) and Acid Armor to one of my sweepers as the second part of a 3-man baton pass chain.
​

Lulu (Espeon) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Spd / 200 Def
EVs: 252 HP / 200 SpA / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Baton Pass
-Signal Beam
- Shadow Ball​

Espeon's primary purpose is as a check to hazard teams with Magic Bounce. It also serves as a fairly powerful special sweeper with a few stat boosts in place. After a set of two Speed Boosts and a single Calm Mind, Stored Power is already more powerful than Psychic. Shadow Ball rounds out the type coverage, while Baton Pass allows it to retreat if checked.​

Wukong (Infernape) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Spd / 180 Atk / 76 SAtk
Naive Nature
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Overheat​

Infernape was added to take advantage of every stat boost I could possibly pass while having great type coverage. Overheat takes advantage of passed Calm Minds and nukes most physical walls I've encounted. I prefer not to send him out with at least one speed boost and either a Substitute or a mix of Acid Armor and Calm Mind. 76 S.Atk EVs will allow him to kill a fully defensive (252 HP and S.Def) Aegislash in shield mode in two hits, taking into account Overheat's reduced second hit, as a worst-case-scenario.​

Thresh (Mawile) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate / Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Ice Punch
- Fire Fang​

Mega Mawile rounds out my team as the end of the line for my Baton Passes. Huge Power coupled with Speed Boost and Swords Dance is absurd while the Intimidate on switch in gives it a buffer against faster physical attackers. I'm not sure if I want to stick with four attacking moves or trade one for a bit of safety/utility. I'm also a bit worried that it's going to get run over if I'm unable to pass it a solid set of stat boosts.

 

[Basileus]

Hi, nice team, I think your biggest problem is your EV spreads which are rather confusing.

I suggest that instead of signal beam you use shadow ball on Espeon as this will give you a substantially larger amount of coverage over things like Gengar and Jellicent which will be ruined if you pass speed to Espeon. In addition to this, I suggest you give Espeon 200 Satk EVs instead of 200 Sdef because it isn't in desperate need of more defense and you'll want Espeon to be your special sweeper. Maybe give it life orb even if you are feeling risky...


I suggest Blissey over Sylveon as Bissey has the glorious benifit of inflicting status conditions that can cripple your opponents stradegy as well as unbelievable Sdef to match. here is the set I suggest:

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Thunder Wave
- Ice Beam
- Protect

The coverage with ice beam also helps a lot. Keep in mind not every pokemon needs baton pass. You wouldn't likely be passing stats to Blissey anyway since she really doesn't need calm mind or sword dance boosting.

For Ninjask, why is he bold nature? Give it a timid nature, you want to make sue it is as fast as possible since he is your core passer.

Overall: This looks like a very solid team, however some of your choices confuse me, I think you should test out what I have suggested and definitely move around some effort values. Hope I could help, gl, and hf! :)

 

[Kavrae]

Thank you for looking over my team. I've made the following changes per your suggestions:

Ninjask has been changed to a Timid Nature and changed to a more speedy EV spread. If it gets hit outside of a substitute, it's probably dead anyway even with defensive EVs. HP remains at 248 since this allows it to survive two stealth rock hits.

Espeon has been given Shadow Ball over Signal Beam and swapped its Special Defense over to Special Attack.

I'm not completely sold on the Blissey switch yet, but I'll try it and see how it goes.

In general for tanks is it better to round out their defenses or maximize their strong defense at the expense of the other?

Also, would Petaya Berry on Ninjask be viable? It would activate very safely with the protect + sub combination and would make baton passes to Espeon and Infernape a little more potent. Also considering Starf Berry since I have such a wide variety of things to pass to.

 

[Basileus]

I find, for tanks, it's better to focus mainly on their best defensive stat without completely ignoring the other. Blissey is an exception, because it's Def is already so low, any EVs put into defense are pretty much wasted because a maxed out Blissey Def is only 130 which will stop essentially not a single physical sweeper.

I think Starf berry is definitely an option to consider, however, I have never actually tested Starf berry so I can't guarantee it will be viable. It would be at least fun to try, but I'm not sure Ninjask has enough health to use it viably. Maybe give Starf to one of your other pokemon?

 

[MZ]

In gen six, they changed Scolipede's hidden ability to speed boost. Honestly, I believe that Scolipede is far superior to Ninjask. You could literally use the exact same set that you have on Ninjask right now. The only difference would be bulk to take an extra hit, but potentially not outspeeding on the first turn, which can be remedied by protect. The only things outspeeding you after that would be scarfed pokemon with natural speed, so Scolipede is basically way better. I have been battling a ton since the start of Gen six on Showdown, and I have not seen any Ninjask used since Scolipede's hidden ability became common knowledge.

 

[Kavrae]

Thank you! I've run the damage calculations and promptly switched to Scolipede.

I've also swapped Draining Kiss on Sylveon for Moon Blast. Thus far Leftovers + Wish + Calm Mind and an optional Aqua Ring has been more than sufficient for my healing needs. Moon Blast allows me to punish those dark and dragon types a little more heavily.

Question: Should I remove 4 HP EVs from Scolipede and place them in defense? This would reduce my number of substitutes to three, but would allow Starf Berry to activate on the third instead of the fourth.

Question 2: Currently both of my tanks are mixed but naturally specialize in S.Defense. I'm considering swapping some (but not all) of Sylveon's Defense EVs for S.Defense and trading Vaporeon for a defensive Baton Passing Gliscor with Poison Heal. Opinion on this swap?

 

[Kavrae]

Multiple updates made to the team. See first post. Any suggestions for the listed questions?

 

[MZ]

I honestly don't have experience with Gliscor. However, I can answer the first question. Keep them in HP. Who cares if the berry activates later? More subs= more time to set up. But why a Starf berry? You can choose a certain stat to raise, so why opt for a random one? I'm honestly baffled as to why you would use a berry that could raise the wrong stat as opposed to raising a stat that you actually want to boost.

 

[Kavrae]

I chose the Starf Berry for two reasons. The first is that it's a +2 instead of the typical +1 that berries give. The second reason is that, unless I'm mistaken, none of the stats it gives me would be wasted. Both defenses are more than welcome on any part of my baton pass chain. Accuracy and Evasion are not included in its stat list. Three of my members can make use of the +2 S.Atk. Two can make use of the +2 Atk. The only questionable one would be speed, and that's if I've already spend 5 or 6 turns building it with Scolipede (which has yet to happen).

 

[Zebstrika]

You can run pixilate and hyper voice on sylveon for more damage than moonblast gives, since pixilate not only converts it to fairy type but also throws on a 30% boost to the damage.

On espeon, I think Dazzling Gleam would be more useful than Shadow Ball. You hit dark types that are immune to stored power, and, with a few boosts, stored power rips through pretty much everything, often even pokemon that resist. Like 252 HP Scizor is OHKO'd every time by Stored Power with 2 calm minds and 2 speed boosts. Also, not sure if you just forgot to change Espeon's nature, but it's still Bold. You probably want to change it to Modest. (Technically, if you changed to Modest with a 252 HP/60 Def/76 SpA/56 Spe spread, you get the exact same stats as you have with the bold nature now, but with 64 EVs left over. But you're probably better off just leaving the EVs as they are and changing to Modest if you think special attack is better than defense investment, unless you were trying to hit some specific benchmark with your defense.)

 

[Kavrae]

You bring up a good point with Pixelate and I've switched it over to Hyper Voice. While the S.Atk lowering was nice, a solid blasting move works just as well in most cases. It's unfortunate that there are no physical Pixelate users to abuse Return.

Shadow ball I will keep, simply because I already have two strong Fairy attacks and it's my only ghost move.

The EV and nature changes I will look into later as it will require a little more math and time on my part.

Thank you for the suggestions.