Doubles Theorymon XY

[Celever]

Approved by Robert Alfons and Level 51

Hi!

Named after our very own venerable moderator Theorymon, this thread is primarily a thinking exercise, designed to help you understand how to think about and deal with new metagames and threats. None of the situations that will be discussed in this thread are guaranteed to happen, if they ever will at all. We're just going to talk about this kind of stuff just for the fun of it and to improve our discussion and thinking abilities, cool?

Here's how it's gonna work. I'm going to come up with a reasonable change to the XY doubles metagame, and you guys discuss the aftereffects of this change, how it will affect the meta, some interesting sets you might use to combat this new change, any plausible counters, anything that you can think of to talk about this new potential change. This change could be anything from new DW abilities being released to UU drop-downs - even changes to the moves or abilities that current Pokemon have could be discussed. I'll also provide several questions to work off of (though you can make your own theories as well!), so hopefully it should be easy to just jump in and start discussing. I'm gonna give you guys an example or two of what's good and what's bad, just for clarification..

---

What if Charizard got Hurricane?

bad

When Charizard mega-evolves into Charizard-Y he will wreck shit and no one can do anything about it. Nothing could wall this shitass and he would be banned within a week of him getting this move. I mean seriously what do you think could take a Hurricane from this fucker? His power is just too strong to have a 110 BP attack and he is really really fast too!

good!

Hurricane would obviously help Mega-Charizard-Y more than Mega-Charizard-X as Charizard-X is physical, not special. It would be difficult finding things that can wall Charizard-Y's Hurricane sometimes, however many teams already use Pokemon such as Heatran and Rotom-W, both of which wall Mega-Charizard-Y Hurricane and Heat Wave fairly reliably. It definitely wouldn't be easy to take this beast out, however simple ways that you can do this would be Talonflame Choice Band Brave Bird and weakening Charizard with Icy Wind and Electroweb first. This may possibly be over-centralizing and banish him to ubers, however, as it is an S-Rank threat already

I gotta go so start with that theorymon for now!

 

[Magcargo]

Just a minor nitpick, but isn't Hurricane counterproductive with Drought?

 

[Pocket]

How exactly does Hurricane benefit Charizard Y at all... Hurricane is 50% accurate in the sun x_x

Needless to say this thread will be heavily moderated, since this type of thread has plenty of room to go wrong.

 

[termi]

lol celever you could have started with so much good shit and you go with hurricane zard how do you even manage

btw there's a typo in the thread name, please fix that

still props for making the thread though c:

 

[BlankZero]

MegaCharizard with Hurricane might be interesting if it didn't get Drought, or you were using it as a lure for Rain. While this might have worked in Gen 5 (I personally tried Volcarona/Moltres in this way as a Rain Check), I have seen all of 2 or 3 rain teams on the ladder since XY released.

My Theorymon idea is:
What would happen if Megas could pick their original abilities when MegaEvolving, ie: Char keeps Solar Power (bad), MegaVenu keeps Chloro (good), MegaGengar keeps Leviate (Tricky). What kind of options could this open up for teambuilding?

 

[Celever]

I should've checked the side effects of Hurricane I guess... ^_^

On the mega-evolutions... well I just don't see that helping many Pokemon in doubles. Like the god abilities (Sand Stream, Speed Boost, Pure Power) tend to carry through mega-evolution, whereas other Pokemon (Manectric with Intimidate, Gardevoir with Pixilate, Mawile with Huge Power) undoubtedly improve from it. The only Pokemon that I can see who would use this more commonly than not are:
Venusaur
Alakazam
Gyarados

Maybe:
Ampharos
Houndoom

Venusaur's niche is very much fast sun sweeper, he has been getting a more tankish or defensive role lately because of his ability Thick Fat there but to be honest he will almost always be better at Chlorophyll, for the forseeable future, anyway. This would actually be a really cool feature for him, however you would be stuck using Ninetails if you chose to make him mega. To be honest with Venusaur I would much rather use regular Venusaur and Mega-Charizard-Y, especially as Mega-Venusaur is centred more defensively anyway, you're not missing out on an awful lot to be honest.

Alakazam isn't an awfully good Pokemon as is, Mega-Alakazam would just be a little bit better with Magic Guard, since Trace could be amazing but most of the time it won't be, Magic Guard would be consistently good because even though there are about no hazards there are burns thrown around and things so it would still not be good but it would be ok. That sentence was terrible.

Mega-Gyarados really got screwed with Mold Breaker as it's new ability actually. Intimidate is fantastic in doubles - no denying that - and while it will still use Intimidate the first time it switches in if you DO switch out your kinda stuffed. To be fair, Mold Breaker isn't even very good of an ability, particularly in doubles because there are pretty much no ways that Mega-Gyarados even gains anything from it... Gastrodon maybe? That's all I can really think of to be honest...

Mega-Ampharos has no abilities anyway but Mold Breaker sucks

Mega-Houndoom could be incredibly good with Ninetails, yes, however like I said before Mega-Charizard-Y is almost definitely going to be the summoner of sun which, in par, would weaken Mega-Houndoom's viability. Off of that subject, however, and Mega-Houndoom with Flash Fire seems like a very good sun counter as he could take the Heat Waves forcing the opponents to use their weaker attacks. Plus, Flash Fire + Sun Heat Wave off of Mega-Houndoom is gonna hurt... even the fire types.

 

[youngjake93]

Tbh I would love to see Plus Mega Ampharos. Free choice specs on something with that special attack stat? Jeeeez idc what lame ass partner you have to use to pull it off.

 

[Sound]

Tbh I would love to see Plus Mega Ampharos. Free choice specs on something with that special attack stat? Jeeeez idc what lame ass partner you have to use to pull it off.

Klinklang gets Minus, TR, and some weirder support options like Magnetic Flux (raises Ampharos's Def and SpDef), Metal Sound, and Gravity (for Thunder if you're not using Rain) if you're feeling those. Primary issue is the standard "Sux if partner goes down" syndrome. Though, given how strong Ampharos would get, might actually be worth it.

 

[Allosteric]

There have been times where I wished Mega Gardevoir would keep Telepathy when it Mega Evolved, especially for the upcoming VGC. Dazzling Gleam alongside spammable spread moves would layer a massive amount of offensive pressure against your opponent. Trace could be interesting too. I'm not entirely sure how it works when it comes to Mega Evolutions, but it'd be cute if you sent Gardevoir in, it Traced Intimidate, Mega Evolved, reset its ability to Trace, then Traced Intimidate yet again to halve both opponents' attack at the beginning of one turn.

 

[Explorer]

What if Hariyama got Intimidate?

While Thick Fat and Guts have their merits, Intimidate would tighten the distinctive features between it and Scrafty, who already possesses Intimidate. Hariyama would become an even better defensive pivot or tank, letting it handle the onslaughts of physical dragons more easily (plus it has Ice Punch to hurt them badly). Given that Hariyama already has Fake Out and Knock Off as well, the reasons to use Scrafty over Hariyama would be diminished down to these three things: access to Dragon Dance, a Psychic immunity, and a better Special Defense (but even then Hariyama can run Assault Vest or a Magost Berry).

 

[Electrolyte]

Charizard already has Air Slash in its arsenal, which isn't nearly as powerful as Hurricane but has a nice flinch chance and much greater accuracy, so even not considering Drought Hurricane might not impact Charizard as much due to the fact that people have a choice between two Flying STABs on a preference basis.


In order for this thread to take some direction as opposed to being comprised of random people shouting random things, we should consider the topic in a competitive basis. Obviously there are millions of different ideas that a person could make up to "spice up" the metagame, but which ones are worth our time to discuss? There is no point in having such a thread if its main purpose is just to let people put their epiphanies on paper and then forget about it.

One thing I'd like to Theorymon about right now is Mega Kangaskhan, especially because we're suspecting it right now and because it *might* get banned sometime soon. While there's no doubt that its stats are stellar and its movepool is massive, what exactly makes it so good, and how would the Doubles metagame be if it didn't possess that trait? Here's my theorymon:

What if Mega Kangaskhan did not learn any damaging priority attacks?

This probably sounds like a really weird proposal as most theorymons are adding traits to a Pokemon while this one is removing them. However, I assure that dis gun be gud.

First, I want to clarify- in Kangaskhan's current movepool, Fake Out and Sucker Punch are the only damaging priority attacks that it has access to. So that's all this theorymon is discussing. Second, one of the main reasons why I want to bring this up is because of how Kangaskhan's niche affects the Doubles metagame. Sure, MK's stats and ability are both really great, but what really breaks it is its absurdly powerful Fake Out and Sucker Punch. Fake Out by itself is already a very useful attack; the ability to get off "free" damage as well as potentially create an opening for a partner makes it really useful utilitywise. Kangaskhan is the perfect abuser of it; it has a naturally high Attack and Speed stat, perfect for outspeeding other prominent Fake Out users in the meta, has STAB on the attack, and can use Parental Bond to further boost the damage to an equivalent single 90 BP attack. (40 BP x 1.5 STAB = 60 x 1.5 Parental Bond = 90) Sucker Punch is really useful for Kangaskhan as well, since it hits a solid 120 BP after Parental Bond, giving Kangaskhan a useful tool to hit faster, weakened Pokemon. In that way, Kangaskhan can control the momentum of the field by finishing off single weakened opponents for its partner.

While I don't want to hog all of the discussion, I'll just give a brief lowdown of what I at least expect if this change were made. I definitely feel as if taking away Kangaskhan's priority would keep it in the tier, but there might be some other profound effects as well. I feel as if Kangaskhan's whole niche will change- instead of a priority based momentum controller, it would simply turn into a bulky, above-average fast powerful attacker. (something that it kind of already is right now.) It still has some pretty useful moves to use- such as Return, Power Up Punch, Crunch, Outrage, and Earthquake (the last of which does not hit twice.) Instead of being a lead and finishing sweeper, Kangaskhan might become more useful mid-match, where it can use its good stats to inflict major damage with coverage attacks that it now has the choice to run. It will get a whole new load of checks and counters, especially faster Ghost / Psychic types that used to fear Sucker Punch.

What do you guys think?

Pwne edit: we decided not to ban mkanga already you goon

Edit: no u >:[

 

[Pocket]

Kangaskhan would be MUCH less threatening without its priority moves, especially Sucker Punch. After (or even without) PuP boosts, Kangaskhan can end up being untouchable thanks to Sucker Punch sniping down faster threats. If Kangaskhan does not have its priority moves, its ordinary Speed starts to stick out like a sore thumb.

Kangaskhan would still be a nuke that we know today, though. Instead of Sucker Punch, it would most likely be packing Crunch or Fire Punch to nail Ghost- or Steel-types. Fake Out would be replaced with Protect. Rather than having priority moves to protect itself from harm, it would simply be making use of Protect to prolong its devastation on the opposing team.

 

[Celever]

#revival

What if you could have 2 mega evolutions per team? (no more than 2, though)

I originally thought of this idea when I was building a Electric terrain team, which was basically 100% accurate Thunder spam, and I really wanted to use both Mega-Manectric and Mega-Ampharos for it, and it began to frustrate me to no end that I couldn't. This led me to start thinking of more and more pairs of mega-evolution who would work well on the same doubles team, so I decided to revive my only XY doubles thread with the idea!

List of likely pairs:

Hide

Ampharos + Manectric
Houndoom + Charizard Y
Tyranitar + Aggron
Tyranitar + Mawile
Tyranitar + Lucario
Tyranitar + Garchomp
Tyranitar + Aerodactyl
Banette + Ampharos
Banette + Abomasnow

This is all I've got for now. Keep in mind that I don't really have a huge knowledge of the metagame, but I'm going to sum all of these up fairly swiftly:

Ampharos + Manectric
These two go together pretty perfectly, oddly enough. Manectric is fast and it learns fantastic support moves such as Electric Terrain and Rain Dance to support Mega-Ampharos, and even Lightningrod to absorb Discharges when Manectric switches in. You can even leave mega evolving for a while and then Lower your opponent's attack with intimidate at just the right time. The main problem, I guess, is one EQ and x__x

Houndoom + Charizard Y
Charizard Y uses his Drought, Houndoom uses his Solar Power and we are in BUSINESS! Heat Waves coming off of these two would be seriously deadly, and it is pretty annoying that this can't happen. Charizard Y has Focus Blast to remove Rock Types such as Tyranitar, and that means Houndoom can use his Solar Power Solar Beams for Ground-Types, Water-Types and also frail Rock-Types.

Tyranitar + co.
Tyranitar's powerful attacks coupled with Sand Stream provide some fantastic Mega-Partners. The ones which stand out to me the most are Aggron and Lucario. Mega-Aggron just loves that little bit of damage the sand provides while being immune to it himself as a huge bulky monster who can also hit pretty hard, but Lucario is really where it is at. Mega-Tyranitar and his huge Attack stat with Mega-Lucario and his huge Special Attack stat under a sandstorm? Pretty much heaven imo, since they should be able to hurt a lot of the tier VERY hard.

Banette + co.
By co. I mean Ampharos and Abomasnow, particularly Abomasnow, but I will go through Amphy first. Ampharos really loves the priority Trick Room Banette provides... and that's pretty much it. However, Abomasnow and Banette coupled together looks amazing, because this is really setting up HailRoom nice and efficiently. If timed right, it's 1 turn, so that's good. Also I have to say, Banette isn't a slouch when it comes to attacking either, and with that Attack Stat mixed in with a bunch of Blizzards from Abomasnow... it's good. Very good. :]

So, which mega evolution pairs do you think would be great to use in the metagame? Opinions on the ones I mentioned?

 

[Electrolyte]

Celever's idea is an interesting one. Personally I feel that having such a rule would definitely throw competitiveness out of the metagame, but for the sake of discussion, it is an interesting scenario to consider.

Mega Charizard-T and Mega Tyranitar will definitely rage in the metagame if double megas are allowed, spurring even more weather wars. Tyranitar's Sand is already almost everywhere, be it paired with Mega Chomp, Mega Luc, or some other offensive Mega. The only thing really stopping Mega CharY, too, is the one Mega per team limit. I feel as if allowing two megas wouldn't necessarily be as gamebreaking as it might seem; for most people on the ladder, it would just be legalizing CharY or TTar+SandAbuser spam.

I feel as if that change would most profoundly impact nonweather team structure. Mega Luc and Mega Kang will definitely dominate, especially the former, whose lack of presence is really (again) only due to the one Mega restriction. Mega Kang + Mega Luc team archetypes would probably explode in popularity, since both Pokemon work together well and are so easy to synergize with. Lesser megas like Gardevoir or Mawile could see popularity too, especially on balanced teams, where their bulk might be appreciated just as much as their power.

But yeah honestly spam MegaK and MegaL with Intimidate support and you've got a solid team framework already

 

[AuraRayquaza]

What if Staraptor got Gale Wings?

I was surprised to see that our favourite gen 4 bird didnt get gale wings, as it is exactly the same as talonflame in flavour. Staraptor also has brave bird, which would gain priority from gale wings. It would make staraptor much more viable, as it has a significantly higher base attack stat (120 compared to tflame's 81), meaning it can hit much harder and nab important ohkos on latios, which i believe banded tflame doesnt do. it is also not 4x weak to rock, meaning rock slides from garchomps and sash terrakions, as well as ancientpowers from heatran dont ohko. it still has a solid 100 base speed to work with, but priority brave bird will make the speed almost obsolete.

on the other hand, staraptor loses out on intimidate, a very good ability in a physically offensive biased meta. it also has to rely on close combat, which lowers staraptors defenses, to hit steel, while talonflame has STAB flare blitz.

 

[Pocket]

Gale Wings Staraptor would be quite broken IMO... I mean even Talonflame with its shitastic 81 Base Attack applies some crazy offensive pressure on teams. Staraptor does only Speed tie with Kangaskhan, which may force Staraptor to go Jolly to evade Sucker Punch (which isn't that big a loss, esp if it's holding Choice Band). CB Raptor has enough punch to OHKO bulky Pokemon like Landorus and Terrakion more than average (guaranteed OHKOs if Adamant). Hell, it even 2HKOs 248 HP / 192 Def Togekiss, taking into account Sitrus Berry recovery. Having access to Close Combat and STAB Returns are certainly nice to allow Staraptor deal lethal damage to Pokemon that walled Talonflame, such as Heatran, Tyranitar, and Rotom-W. All three takes ~35% from a resisted CB Brave Bird, though, so Staraptor really has no reason to stop spamming Brave Bird. However, Talonflame's STAB Flare Blitz certainly had its uses for breaking down Jirachi and Aegislash.

Game Freak does a pretty good job not breaking Pokemon by withholding stupidly good buffs such as these. Gale Wings Staraptor is broke, yo.

What if Mega Lati Twins are released?

It's been confirmed that Mega Lati twins is indeed a thing.

Abilities: Levitate for both
Stats:

Latios - 80 HP / 130 Atk / 100 Def / 160 SpA / 120 SpD / 110 Spe
Latias - 80 HP / 100 Atk / 120 Def / 140 SpA / 150 SpD / 110 Spe
​

How will they affect our current Doubles metagame?
Which one would be the better of the two megas? Will they play any differently from their regular form?
Will they usurp Kangaskhan's spot as the most used mega in Doubles? Can our metagame handle these buffed mystic dragons?

 

[Laga]

the stat buffs are fairly terrible, but I do think that mixed Mega Latios would be pretty damn good. Latias might work well as a full supporter with like tailwind + heal pulse :idk

other than that, I still think mega kangas and megazard are gonna be the most popular, even when the new megas are introduced.

 

[Darkmalice]

Latias seems to be the more buffed of the two. Its Mega Evolution is like Mega Scizor's - no new toys, but the better bulk and offence make it an all-round better Pokemon. It gets multiple benefits simultaneously. This can play like just the regular Latias, using a combination of offense and support. It would also help a Calm Mind set, making use of the extra bulk, attack, and the reduced damage from Knock Off (which is relevant for a Pokemon weak to it).

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 252-299 (83.7 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yeah Sucker Punch still KOs but now nothing can OHKO Latias with Knock Off - use supporting moves and Bisharp cannot OHKO.


Latios benefits less from the buff unless it makes proper use of that +40 base Atk. Otherwise, it's arguable if the Mega Evo is worth the Mega slot, particularly considering the loss of Life Orb and that Mega Latias trades away 20 base Atk for significant better Defense - I don't think it's worth it. But using that Atk could be handy - it could run Earthquake, actually giving it a coverage attack to hurt Steel-types outside of Hidden Power, most notably Heatran.

Sadly you need some EV investment to OHKO Heatran:

0 Atk neutral nature Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 344-408 (93.4 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
80 Atk neutral nature Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 368-436 (100 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO. Obviously you need more Atk EVs if it's a 252 HP set.

You still have a good chance to OHKO with a Hasty nature, which stops Heatran from setting a Sub and means any residual damage will net you a KO. You also outdamage Latios' LO Hidden Power Ground. Note that this only applies if you avoid the ever-common Intimidate.

 

[Electrolyte]

I think they are a major disappointment. Sole stat boosts are not really a distinguishing trait in the land of Mega Evolutions, especially since a lot of top tier Mega Evos not only get stat boosts but also get unique new abilities that further boost their offensive capabilities. With Latias / Latios, all they got were enhanced stats, which would normally be awesome, but in a cutthroat competition for Mega Evo slot against other behemoths such as Mega K, Mega Garchomp, and Mega Mawile, it just doesn't cut it.

Their boosts aren't even outstandingly useful, either. Unfortunately, neither of the Lati twins received boosts to their Speed / HP stats, which would have been exponentially more useful. Being that they are Mega Pokemon, 110 Speed is definitely not enough to warrant the Mega Evo slot over another Pokemon, and without a useful ability change, they will probably remain just as one-dimensional as they used to be, decreasing the regular unpredictability that is key in a lot of Mega Evolutions (see Mega Mawile, Mega Garchomp, Mega Lucario)

As Dark Malice proved, sole stat boosts are not enough to make Latias / Latios worth the Mega slot. They don't gain any new niches, and they still can't solidly counter any previous threats. I guess a Dragon Dance mixed Latios could be utilized since Earthquake can hit Tyranitar and Heatran hard, but in the Doubles environment, it takes a lot more than just the ability to remove some counters in order to become viable. I'm afraid they probably won't see much use.

 

[Nollan]

Adding on to Pocket's Mega Lati@s post, we also know Diancie is a legitimate Pokemon as well as its stats and movepool:

Diancie
Typing: Rock / Fairy
Ability: Clear Body
Stats: 50 / 100 / 150 / 100 / 150 / 50

Additionally, there is news of Floette-Eternal, a very special form of Floette that cannot evolve, but has vastly improved base stats and access to Light Of Ruin, a 140bp Fairy move with 1/2 recoil (Eviolite probably will not effect it since it cannot evolve; thank goodness):

Floette-E
Typing: Fairy
Ability: Flower Veil
Stats: 74 / 65 / 67 / 125 / 128 / 92

If these Pokemon were to be introduced into the metagame, what sort of sets/niches would we see from them? How viable do you think they will be?

 

[Darkmalice]

*Bump*

So we've got new Mega Evolutions coming in Alpha Ruby and Omega Sapphire

Mega Sceptile
Typing: Grass/Dragon
Ability: Lightning Rod
Stats: ?

Mega Swampert
Typing: Water/Ground
Ability: Swift Swim
Stats: ?

Mega Diance
Typing: Rock/Fairy
Ability: ?
Stats: ?

Even though we don't have their stats, we can make assumptions based on the fact that they will most likely get a 100 BST increase and a likely no decrease in any stat with the uncommon exception of Speed.

Mega Sceptile gets the long awaited Grass/Dragon type. Lightning Rod is an ability that one would initially dismiss as insignificant as Mega Sceptile already has no problems tanking Electric-type attacks, but it holds strong potential in the Doubles metagame. Lightning Rod has been a great ability since 5th Gen for redirecting Electric-type attacks away from your partner, but we haven't had good users. Now we do, and given Sceptile's decent offensive movepool and very high speed, respectable special attack (and the stats will improve with its Mega Evo), it could easily sweep once it gets a Lightning Rod boost. I can see it pairing well with Dragon Dance Gyarados (non-Mega). Mega Sceptile easily handles Gyarados' primary counter in Rotom-W, making it much easier for Gyarados to set up and sweep, whilst Gyarados itself lures in opportunties for a potential +1 boost to let Sceptile sweep. In turn, Gyarados provides Intimidate support to cover up Sceptile's weaker defence stat.

Swampert has always had a good stat distribution, but from an offensively viewpoint, its Speed has held it back. Now, it could transition from a tank to the new premier Swift Swim user, with a much higher BST than any other Swift Swim user and a very strong typing (sorry Palpitoad, you only wish you had Swampert's stats). It's got the movepool to back it up too, both offensively and also has Wide Guard; it could retain its role as a bulky Wide Guard user whilst also having the option to sweep under rain it's not like Torrent or Damp was doing it any favours. There is also a lack of physical Swift Swim abusers which Swampert can fill the shoe nicely, though special sets are still an option if you fear Intimidate. Base 85 Special Attack in Swampert is only a little less than Ludicolo and Kingdra, and that base Special Attack may raise with Mega Evolution.

We know little about Mega Diance. If it gets a new ability or good stat gain, it could be a threat to fear. If only Mega Evos could get an increase in base HP; Diance could really use it with its high base Def stats.

Thoughts on the new Mega Evos?


I've excluded mentioning Mega Groudon and Kyogre, as they will almost certainly remain in the Ubers tier.

 

[skies]

Here's my take on Mega Swampert:
At first, it looks like a huge tank thingy, with slow Speed, mediocre offenses, and decent bulk. But as you inspect it closer, you see just how amazing it is. Its Mega Evolution blesses it with Swift Swim, which means it may become a staple on Rain Offense, if it proves to be worth our times. My prediction for its stat spread is as follows:

• 100 / 140 / 110 / 105 / 110 / 70

Or, something along this line, buffing Defenses, Attack, some SpA, and not much in Speed, as Swift Swim should make up for this. Hopefully it goes in this direction, or it could take a horribly wrong turn and go:

• 100 / 150 / 110 / 115 / 110 / 50

This would be a very bad Mega Swampert spread, and honestly, Game Freak would do it. This loses Speed to be more bulky, but this is just too slow! Overall, Mega Swampert could prove to be quite the threat, with an immunity to paralysis and the +100 stat boost!

 

[Darkmalice]

Here's my take on Mega Swampert:
At first, it looks like a huge tank thingy, with slow Speed, mediocre offenses, and decent bulk. But as you inspect it closer, you see just how amazing it is. Its Mega Evolution blesses it with Swift Swim, which means it may become a staple on Rain Offense, if it proves to be worth our times. My prediction for its stat spread is as follows:

• 100 / 140 / 110 / 105 / 110 / 70

Or, something along this line, buffing Defenses, Attack, some SpA, and not much in Speed, as Swift Swim should make up for this. Hopefully it goes in this direction, or it could take a horribly wrong turn and go:

• 100 / 150 / 110 / 115 / 110 / 50

This would be a very bad Mega Swampert spread, and honestly, Game Freak would do it. This loses Speed to be more bulky, but this is just too slow! Overall, Mega Swampert could prove to be quite the threat, with an immunity to paralysis and the +100 stat boost!

The loss in Speed wouldn't be the be-end-all of Swampert. Exeggutor has been used successfully as a weather sweeper, despite it's base 55 Speed, along with many other flaws. Swampert wouldn't have nearly as many flaws. Even with base 50 Speed, it can still outspeed base 130s with a neutral nature. And what it'll lack it Speed it'll gain in either bulk or power. Your last EV spread makes Swampert very bulky and extremely hard-hitting physically whilst maintaining the option to hit hard specially or to go mixed (could be useful for EQ + Ice Beam)

Of course, it could receive the Mega Abomasnow treatment and lose a lot of Speed, but given that Abomasnow is the only Pokemon to lose >10 base speed, I feel it's unlikely. Even if it is, it would gain ridiculous bulk and power with great typing to back it up, and would probably end up becoming a great Pokemon that isn't reliant on weather in the process. Swampert is one of those Pokemon that can make great use of any stat gain thanks to its solid typing and well-rounded movepool. Or alternatively, it gains Speed and just goes to town, being very difficult to KO whilst dealing a lot of damage in the process. Either way, I have high hopes for Mega Swampert.

 

[Electrolyte]

I'll be blunt; frankly I'm not too impressed by Mega Sceptile as it is right now. Ability changes make up a large portion of Mega Evolution viability, and Lightningrod just doesn't cut it. The most common use I predict would be to redirect Thunder Wave from Thundurus and Electric-type attacks from Rotom-W, but unfortunately, Electric-type attackers and coverage moves are relatively uncommon in Doubles. Rotom-W itself also commonly uses Electroweb, which Sceptile itself can take advantage of but cannot redirect, thus still making Rotom-W a check to everything weak to Electric. Thundurus-I is limited somewhat but also has a means of bypassing Mega Sceptile- Hidden Power Ice hits it x4 super effectively, and will already always OHKO a Mega Sceptile with the same bulk as regular Sceptile. (Mega Sceptile needs 110 base Special Defense to always escape the OHKO from 252 Thundurus, which is 25 points higher than regular Sceptile and most likely not going to happen.)

It does get a Grass / Dragon typing, which is cool for checking Rain and Sand and sun to an extent. Hopefully it has high offensive stats to help check Rotom-W, bulky waters, and Ground-types, because Doubles could use some more reliable Grass-type attackers. Dragon also hurts it somewhat defensively, however, making it weak to Fairy spam, something common on TR teams which already beat it easily due to its speed and frailty. Priority will also hinder it; Talonflame eats it up, and Scizor / Mawile beat it easily unless it runs Hidden Power Fire.

I'm not going to completely dismiss it just yet but it'll need some pretty great stat boosts in order to make it a big threat in Doubles.


Mega Swampert, on the other hand, has a lot of potential because of its already high physical bulk, high speed in conjunction with Swift Swim, and ability to check Electric-types. Its bulk is probably going to surpass 100 / 100 / 100, and with SS, it doesn't matter how low GF chooses to decrease its Speed stat. Its movepool is also great; it has moves such as Waterfall, Earthquake, Stone Edge / Rock Slide, Hammer Arm (for MK), Power Up Punch, and Wide Guard. It has great synergy with Togekiss as well, which can redirect Grass-type attacks while Swampert hits Electric- and Steel-types with a powerful Earthquake.

 

[Pocket]

I have some reservations for Mega Swampert. It will be competing with many Ground-types like Landorus-T and Garchomp, and it's cockblocked by Amoonguss, Ludicolo, and most importantly Rotom-W. Nevertheless, Mega Swampert would provide us with another Swift Swimmer with access to Muddy Water, as well as a Swift Swimmer which dgaf about Thundurus and can shrug off priority moves. Despite its brawny appearance, I hope it will gain some buff in Special Attack (like Mega Garchomp).

I am more interested in Sceptile. In its regular form it already has 120 base Speed and 105 base Special Attack... if Game Freak does this right, the mega form would be faster than Shaymin-S and Mega Gengar with a workable 125+ Special Attack that is bolstered further by Dragon STAB and Lightning Rod. Its mega ability also has high team value in a metagame where Thunder Wave and Electric-type moves are commonplace - having Electric immunity (and thus protection from paralysis) will come in mighty handy for many teams. Its Grass-typing also gives Sceptile immunity to Rage Powder and Spore.

Grass/Dragon is some shoddy offensive typing, though, but it's certainly an upgrade from pure Grass-typing (it can scare away more dragons now). It definitely wants to be paired with a Ground- or a Fire-type that can deal with Steel-types (Water-type like Keldeo can work, too). Watch out for Talonflame, too