Pancham: Fine in C-rank. It's used as a support Pokemon more than an offensive one, and it's a great pivot for offensive teams because of Parting Shot and its bulk and typing.
Carvanha: I'm on the fence about, leaning more towards against moving it up. It's definitely at least an A+ Pokemon, but I don't really see it as S-rank. Most of the common bulky walls and pivots in the tier handle it really well, and I just don't quite see it on the same level as other S-rank Pokemon. Gligar and Swirlix can easily sweep through opposing teams, and Murkrow is bar none the best wallbreaker in the tier. In my eyes, Carvanha isn't as effective as any of these Pokemon.
Machop: Just screams "why?" to me. Other than Dynamic Punch, I would literally never want to use it over other Fighting-types in LC, and Dynamic Punch isn't enough to fit in C-rank.
Cottonee: Fine in C-rank. Prankster Encore and walling Carvanha are both good niches, but let's not be overly generous here. Cottonee is not nearly as easy to slap onto any old team as any of the other defensive Pokemon in B-rank are except for maybe Tyrunt. Prankster Encore also can only go so far. If you mispredict against a setup sweeper, you might very well lose, and it's frankly quite predictable when it comes in on a setup sweeper that it will either be using Stun Spore or Encore, depending on the situation.
Archen: I'm ok with moving Archen down to B-rank. It's really good, but I'll agree that it's not quite as reliable of an answer to the things it's supposed to check as you'd always like it to be.
Wynaut: Fit for C-rank. It doesn't check any Fighting-types well except for Meditite, and while checking Meditite is fantastic, it's not enough to push it to B-rank in my opinion. I've tried it out a few times, and it's just really hard for it to come in and do its job.
Aipom: Trash.
Grimer: I am willing to move Grimer to C-rank, but absolutely not B-rank. Gligar handles it disgusting well. It's not really anti-meta when Gligar is the meta. You can say "oh but Ice Punch!" but we all know how that works out in practice. You're rarely going to catch a competent player switching Gligar into something that knows Ice Punch because if it learns it and has no other way to touch Gligar, it
will be running it. Also in the replay that was linked where Grimer was "proven" to be "good", all it did until the end of the game was repeatedly switch into Foongus and Timburr. Walling Foongus is hardly an impressive quality, and walling Timburr isn't that difficult with shit like Spritzee and Swirlix all over. The calcs against Belly Drum Swirlix are wholly unimpressive because Grimer has to be near full HP in order to tank a hit. Things get worse when you realize that it has no reliable recovery. This means that unless you're willing to dedicate Grimer to checking solely Swirlix (which you shouldn't set up with Swirlix when the opponent still has a full HP Grimer anyways), then it can't actually win.
Timburr: Probably never going to drop ever. It's so solid at what it does. It's way bulkier than Mienfoo, which makes up for the lack of Regenerator. It has Mach Punch and Ice Punch to allow it to pick off weakened stuff, take on frailer Pokemon weak to Fighting without worrying about dying before it gets a chance to attack, and take on Gligar one-on-one. Probably the only real issue with it is that it gives a free switch to Swirlix, but this is somewhat remedied by Knock Off, which keeps Belly Drum sets from being nearly impossible to revenge kill.
Zigzagoon: C-rank sounds good.
Mantyke: I feel like Mantyke is perfect for B-rank, but I honestly cannot refute any of the arguments Nozzle brought up. I'm going to leave it for now, but I'd like to see more discussion on it.
Koffing: I've never used Koffing, and I honestly don't think I've ever even seen one this gen in the hundreds of LC games I've played. No strong opinion on it.
SO! With all of that out of the way, here are the changes I'm doing right now:
A-rank -> B-rank
D-rank -> C-rank
Added to C-rank
B-rank -> C-rank
B-rank -> C-rank
Proposed changes that are remaining the same:
Remaining in C-rank
Remaining in D-rank
Remaining in C-rank
Remaining in C-rank
Remaining in E-rank
Remaining in A-rank
Proposed changes that need more discussion
S-rank or A-rank?
A-rank or B-rank?
B-rank or C-rank?
And finally, a couple of my own nominations.
Pawniard should drop down to A-rank. It's undoubtedly a huge presence in the metagame and something that every team should be prepared for, but as time has passed, I've seen the metagame slowly adapt more and more towards handling it well. Bulky Fighting-types are on nearly every single team right now, offense or otherwise. Timburr, Croagunk, Mienfoo, Meditite to an extent (lives any one hit and scores an OHKO), as well as more obscure ones such as Pancham, Riolu, and evidently Machop. Bulky Water-types can also take it on decently well, with a special mention going out to my nigga Corphish. Snover has begun to run HP Fighting just to destroy it on the switch. Gligar might not counter it, but it definitely gives Pawniard a tough time. Bulky Fire-types also handle it pretty well, with Ponyta and Larvesta being the most obvious ones thanks to Flame Body. I doubt that any of us will deny that there was a time when Pawniard was an easy fit in S-rank, but the metagame has adapted well around it, enough to drop it from its throne down to A-rank, where it will probably continue to reside for the rest of the generation.
Almost as though it's taking over for Pawniard, I believe that Meditite should be moved up to S-rank. It's such a stupid fucking Pokemon, and I hate it so much. Classic Drain Punch / Ice Punch / Fake Out / Bullet Punch Meditite is the single best counter to offensive Swirlix, both Belly Drum and Calm Mind. Being able to take out the scariest LC sweeper without even batting an eye is incredible, but this set is still somewhat inferior to what it could be running because so many different things wall it. Slowpoke bodies it. Spritzee takes like 30% from Bullet Punch. Larvesta doesn't care about it at all. Eviolite Misdreavus can readily switch in and either burn or KO it. But when you give it Zen Headbutt, Larvesta is OHKOed after Stealth Rock and 2HKOed without it, Misdreavus is 2HKOed (with an 81% chance to OHKO Berry Juice sets after Stealth Rock!), and Spritzee, well, still checks it well because it takes like 40%, but 2HKOed with just a little bit of prior damage! Slowpoke obviously still walls it, but you can run Thunder Punch for it as well. This is all just plain old Eviolite Meditite as well. Life Orb Meditite is absolutely destructive, and it can even muscle through Slowpoke without Thunder Punch.
196+ Atk Life Orb Pure Power Meditite High Jump Kick vs. 196 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Slowpoke: 10-13 (35.7 - 46.4%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
:O
There is nothing that outright counters Meditite because what beats one set loses to another. It's a huge force to be reckoned within LC, and unlike Pawniard, is worthy of a seat in S-rank.
