Resource LC Viability Rankings

[chimp]

i'll quote the ranks description, to justify my opinion:

B-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon who are great in the LC metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than of those above it that affects how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.
C-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the LC metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective in LC. C rank Pokemon tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.
D-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the LC metagame, but are decent enough to justify their use on some teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that.


As for machop, yes, ghosts block dynamic punch, but that's why you can also use knock off. Anyway i think he fits c-rank description, even if only scarfed machop

And you're underestimating goldeen. She can switch on fire, ice, water,steel and lightning attacks and immediatly land a kill with it's good coverage without having to smash. and goldeen slow? 17 speed and 16 attack is decent on my book, with eviolite giving also some bulk. she has good stats, good coverage, good ability, well worth a B-rank along with staryu. and she does hurt foongus with drill run/ mega-horn or even knock off and switch out.


Kabuto and omanyte aren't that different, it's just that kabuto is physical and omanyte is special bulky sweepers
kabuto can be valuable with good prediction on switching in to proc weak armor, this ofc , is full bulky kabuto which is no worse than bulky tirtouga but faster, that can instantly sweep.

Ekans also has more than meets the eye. Nice bulk with eviolite, access to coil and stockpille, tanks and 1hko swirlix back, access to good coverage like earthquake, sucker punch,glare, and any of it's ability are really good. not worse than grimer, just a different coverage.

Now Eevee, doesn't have great typing to wall or sweep, but has a wide ammount of utilitys that makes her. The only niche is last resort/doubleedge + adaptability 2x stab, that allows eevee to 1 hko any non resisting opponent and its quick attack can 2 hko anything too. Anyway, he deserves a rank, either for the ammount of functions eevee can fulfill without excelling at any of them.

Machop fits the D description better, as it is "only capable of doing its specific task and fails at doing anything more than that." Fighting types aren't cut a lot of slack in the current meta, Flame Bodies, Ghosts, Gligar, Spritzee, Swirlix, Meditite, Slowpoke and Foongus, are all out to wall them hard. Spritzee is barely 4OKOed by Machop's bullet punch. I know you can just switch out but it'll just continue to heal with wish. Your opponent switch in a Larvesta? Have fun with your 1.4% chance to 4KO and 30% to be burned. Machops suffers from 4MS, it'll never be able to handle all its counters with one set. Its only redemption is that DynamicPunch confuses, but that is unreliable and goes away if you just switch out. And of course there is always Knock Off; Machop is downright useless without it's scarf, as opposed to other fighting types who can still work without their item. Machop fails at doing anything other than spamming Dynamicpunch, which, in my opinion, isn't a good strategy, especially when you can do the same with Meditite with Drain Punch, Mienfoo with Hi Jump Kick, etc.

Even with eviolite Goldeen takes a lot of damage from common mons:
236+ Atk Larvesta Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Goldeen: 7-9 (33.3 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
236+ Atk Pawniard Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Goldeen: 12-15 (57.1 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Porygon Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Goldeen: 7-10 (33.3 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Those calcs may not seem impressive, but remember Goldeen can't heal herself, so its prone to being worn down fast.
The only pokemon goldeen can switch in to are electric types, something chinchou does infinitely better. The three common steel types are Pawniard, Ferroseed, and Magnemite. Only the latter will lose 1v1 to Goldeen. Though lightning rod on a water type pokemon is pretty cool. IMO it deserves C rank.

Weak Armor Kabuto will die to priority. Bullet Punch, Mach Punch, Sucker Punch. Weak Armor doesn't boost attacking stats so its not very effective at helping Kabuto Sweep and is more of a liability imo.

Ekans' only niche is being able to paralyze gligar, but it can only do that if gligar switches in (which will be often tbh). But it'll die shortly thereafter so its not worth the trouble.

 

[Holiday]

Phone is running out of battery so I will continue this later. But I fully support for Sunkern in s rank fletchling being moved to A. Solid stats and a crazy good ability makes it IMO the best fighting type counter in the game bar Missy. I plan on getting calcs later as well but its normal gem and itemless sets are just crazy strong. Also take a dump on physical walls with overheat. Fletchling for A.

 

[Shouting]

Honestly guys, goldeen was B-RANK last gen, when knock off was not 65 BP. It just got better.

Goldeen is nearly the same case as Staryu. Its outclassed by Tirtouga in just about every way, with the exception of being able to counter chinchou. Goldeen can't break through common physical walls like Croagunk, Foongus, and Spritzee. Its only redeeming feature is Knock Off, but its so slow without a scarf, and too weak without a life orb. Though, I will agree that it at least deserves D as opposed to not be ranked at all.

What the heck? Goldeen cannot be compared to Tirtouga at all. Goldeen checks Staryu, Slowpoke, Chinchou, Magnemite, Elekid, and Magby. Nearly everything on this list can beat Tirtouga so I'm not really sure why you brought up Tirt. If anything, it faces competition from Chinchou. However Goldeen has Knock Off and is not weak to ground ( pretty big when Gligar is running around)

I see you've cleared not used Goldeen before, as Knock Off + Drill Run on the standard Croagunk KOs with no questions asked(or just two Drill Run). Foongus? Knock off the eviolite, then the next time just 2HKO with Megahorn. Spritzee is more difficult but Knock Off can get it to the point where Goldeen can 2HKO with stealth rock or any prior damage. You can even 2HKO Ferroseed after Knock Off depending on the spread.

 

[Holiday]

ALL HAIL CUBONE!

Lol Cubone. I worry that priority might be the only thing that wears him down. Repeated assaults from fake outs and aqua jet can really put a damper on him, as well as fast knock offs if torchic can't the get pass.

 

[natu]

Lol Cubone. I worry that priority might be the only thing that wears him down. Repeated assaults from fake outs and aqua jet can really put a damper on him, as well as fast knock offs if torchic can't the get pass.

That's why I mentioned his dependency on thick club is what holds him back because knock off is everywhere in the meta. Cubone still deserves to be ranked because he isn't that bad

 

[Holiday]

That's why I mentioned his dependency on thick club is what holds him back because knock off is everywhere in the meta. Cubone still deserves to be ranked because he isn't that bad

I'll say. It is good. But it needs too many things to be b rank. C seems much more suitable for it.

No one objecting to a-rank fletchling??

 

[Wobbyble]

Yeah Fletchling should be A ranked. It holds the strongest priority in the game that isn't LO Sucker from Murk/Pawn.

 

[Star]

Fletchling is an easy A rank imo. It has awesome priority that beats common LC threats like Meditite, Timburr and a bunch of things neutral to it after an SD. Its just a fantastic late game cleaner and can sweep through a bunch of the metagame on its own which fits the description of A rank.

 

[chimp]

Honestly guys, goldeen was B-RANK last gen, when knock off was not 65 BP. It just got better.


What the heck? Goldeen cannot be compared to Tirtouga at all. Goldeen checks Staryu, Slowpoke, Chinchou, Magnemite, Elekid, and Magby. Nearly everything on this list can beat Tirtouga so I'm not really sure why you brought up Tirt. If anything, it faces competition from Chinchou. However Goldeen has Knock Off and is not weak to ground ( pretty big when Gligar is running around)

I see you've cleared not used Goldeen before, as Knock Off + Drill Run on the standard Croagunk KOs with no questions asked(or just two Drill Run). Foongus? Knock off the eviolite, then the next time just 2HKO with Megahorn. Spritzee is more difficult but Knock Off can get it to the point where Goldeen can 2HKO with stealth rock or any prior damage. You can even 2HKO Ferroseed after Knock Off depending on the spread.

I'll admit comparing it to tirt was dumb and mentioning croagunk as a check was equally as stupid of me.

Though I still believe Goldeen doesn't belong in B.

220+ Atk Goldeen Megahorn vs. 124 HP / 156+ Def Foongus: 11-13 (44 - 52%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO.
That isn't impressive considering Foongus can deal heavy damage and heal up in the process. If things get troubling, foongus can just switch out and get back some HP.

Goldeen can't even reliably check Gligar. Gligar hits it insanely hard and a OHKO with waterfall isn't even guaranteed against Berry Juice sets. Gligar outspeeds anyway, cause goldeen wasn't lucky enough to get aqua jet.

Some more calcs, all of which calculated with no eviolite:
220+ Atk Goldeen Waterfall vs. 236 HP / 196 Def Porygon: 9-12 (34.6 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
220+ Atk Goldeen Waterfall vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Spritzee: 9-12 (33.3 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
220+ Atk Goldeen Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Timburr: 12-15 (50 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Drain Punch + Mach Punch gives Timburr the advantage in this scenario, I think)
220+ Atk Goldeen Waterfall vs. 116 HP / 76+ Def Vullaby: 9-12 (36 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
220+ Atk Goldeen Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 188+ Def Ferroseed: 8-10 (40 - 50%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

These are from some of the most common walls in the metagame. Note that all of them have some way of healing back any health that they might have lost in case Goldeen switches out.

Reminder that goldeen would require a lot of support to: 1) Set up hazards 2) Pass it wishes so it can kill something without being put into death range. 3) Remove hazards from it's side to avoid losing even more health.
The best spot on a team it could fill is removing electric types to help gligar (chinchou does it better) or hurting foongus (vullaby does it better) in order to try and sweep with swirilix.

I honestly think C is the best place for it. It is good, don't get me wrong, but its just not great.

 

[Expulso]

Wooper and Woobat for C (or D?)

The description for C Rank includes the following: "Pokemon that have notable niches in the LC metagame..."

These two Pokemon's ability to check most setup sweepers is a very notable niche, with Wooper checking physical sweepers, while Woobat is faster and can check special ones along with physical ones; however, Wooper has fewer weaknesses, and resists SR as opposed to being weak to it.

These Pokemon can prevent setup sweepers from overwhelming a team by means of the Unaware ability, allowing them to ignore stat boosts on the foe.


Thanks!

 

[Darkamber8828]

220+ Atk Goldeen Megahorn vs. 124 HP / 156+ Def Foongus: 11-13 (44 - 52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
220+ Atk Goldeen Waterfall vs. 116 HP / 76+ Def Vullaby: 9-12 (36 - 48%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

but

232+ SpA Chinchou Ice Beam vs. 124 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Foongus: 12-16 (48 - 64%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO

honestly goldeen is shitty chinchou w/ knock off. Chinchou has great dual stab coverage, higher bp moves, stab volt switch, soak to maul its counters / heal bell, and an awesome flying resist which is much more important this gen. goldeen is too weak to do anything without spamming knock off, and even after its not that great.

 

[nkhlshnd99]

Please tell me why cranidos is d - rank

 

[Kappaten]

Please tell me why cranidos is d - rank

Cranidos requires a lot of support to have any chance of sweeping, and head smash's 50% recoil means it can't come in as often as it wants to revenge with a scarf. Weaknesses to Fighting, Steel, and Water priority also hurt Cranidos, leaving it vulnerable to being revenged easily, as any decent team should have at least one (and often 2 or 3) of Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave/Bullet Punch/Aqua Jet. Low base defenses don't help his case, as he usually can't afford to run any bulk.

 

[Corporal Levi]

I would like to nominate Elekid for B rank. Its numerous coverage options from both sides of the spectrum and access to Volt Switch make it fairly difficult to switch into at times, and its high speed allows it to revenge-kill threats such as Gligar and weakened Misdreavus without the need for Choice Scarf. Although its frailty leaves it vulnerable to priority and its Attack/Special Attack stats aren’t very high for a sweeper, I still think its movepool and speed warrant a placement higher than C.

I would also like to support Ant in nominating Cubone for either C or D rank. A complete reliance on its item leaves it very vulnerable in a Knock Off infested metagame, and its abysmal speed makes sweeping on its own quite difficult. It is also very easy to take down from the special side due to its inability to hold Eviolite. However, its own access to Knock Off gives it some utility, and the sheer power of its attacks makes it a decent baton pass recipient, trick room sweeper, or wall-breaker.

I think Shellos should be mentioned and put in B rank. Sticky Hold is great with Knock Off’s prevalence, and unlike Grimer, Shellos actually has access to reliable recovery. Shellos is, from what I understand, one of the best Gligar checks available, avoiding the OHKO from itemless Gligar’s Jolly +2 Acrobatics and KOing with Ice Beam in return, because unlike Porygon or Slowpoke, Gligar cannot Knock Off its Eviolite and KO with a boosted Acrobatics later in the game. Despite its lack of offensive presence and the huge amount of competition for water types in LC, I think Shellos has enough of a niche to stick to B rank or above.

 

[nkhlshnd99]

Cranidos requires a lot of support to have any chance of sweeping, and head smash's 50% recoil means it can't come in as often as it wants to revenge with a scarf. Weaknesses to Fighting, Steel, and Water priority also hurt Cranidos, leaving it vulnerable to being revenged easily, as any decent team should have at least one (and often 2 or 3) of Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave/Bullet Punch/Aqua Jet. Low base defenses don't help his case, as he usually can't afford to run any bulk.

I knew he was weak to a lot of priority but with the same base attack as Bisharp and Landorus, D-rank really?

 

[Wobbyble]

Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the LC metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective in LC. C rank Pokemon tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

Cranidos requires a lot of support to have any chance of sweeping, and head smash's 50% recoil means it can't come in as often as it wants to revenge with a scarf. Weaknesses to Fighting, Steel, and Water priority also hurt Cranidos, leaving it vulnerable to being revenged easily, as any decent team should have at least one (and often 2 or 3) of Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave/Bullet Punch/Aqua Jet. Low base defenses don't help his case, as he usually can't afford to run any bulk.

I think it fits C rank description PERFECTLY. It is THE definition of a wallbreaker. It doesn't need any boosts, it doesn't always need hazards, but it 2HKOs the WHOLE metagame aside from shit like Hippopotas. However, things like low speed, the need to run Adamant to get certain OHKOs and 2HKOs, as well as the prevalence of priority moves hold it back from being completely viable. It's more deserving of C rank than shit like Purrloin, Skrelp, and Bronzor at the very least. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it move up. It was such a 16 wheeler truck last generation when the metagame was more revolved around balanced team and stall, and I'm sure Blarajan remembered it because he swept half my team in this generation when he used it.

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Cranidos Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gligar: 21-25 (91.3 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Cranidos Zen Headbutt vs. 156 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 23-29 (100 - 126%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Cranidos Zen Headbutt vs. 124 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Foongus: 23-29 (92 - 116%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Cranidos Superpower vs. 236 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Porygon: 23-29 (88.4 - 111.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Cranidos Rock Slide vs. 196 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Slowpoke: 13-17 (46.4 - 60.7%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO (same damage calcs apply to Spritzee)

I would like to nominate Elekid for B rank. Its numerous coverage options from both sides of the spectrum and access to Volt Switch make it fairly difficult to switch into at times, and its high speed allows it to revenge-kill threats such as Gligar and weakened Misdreavus without the need for Choice Scarf. Although its frailty leaves it vulnerable to priority and its Attack/Special Attack stats aren’t very high for a sweeper, I still think its movepool and speed warrant a placement higher than C.

I would also like to support Ant in nominating Cubone for either C or D rank. A complete reliance on its item leaves it very vulnerable in a Knock Off infested metagame, and its abysmal speed makes sweeping on its own quite difficult. It is also very easy to take down from the special side due to its inability to hold Eviolite. However, its own access to Knock Off gives it some utility, and the sheer power of its attacks makes it a decent baton pass recipient, trick room sweeper, or wall-breaker.

I think Shellos should be mentioned and put in B rank. Sticky Hold is great with Knock Off’s prevalence, and unlike Grimer, Shellos actually has access to reliable recovery. Shellos is, from what I understand, one of the best Gligar checks available, avoiding the OHKO from itemless Gligar’s Jolly +2 Acrobatics and KOing with Ice Beam in return, because unlike Porygon or Slowpoke, Gligar cannot Knock Off its Eviolite and KO with a boosted Acrobatics later in the game. Despite its lack of offensive presence and the huge amount of competition for water types in LC, I think Shellos has enough of a niche to stick to B rank or above.

I've used both Elekid and Shellos more than most people probably, imo both should be left at C rank.

Elekid is pretty good for B rank right now, but I don't think it will be once Gligar is banned as it'll lose its niche of being able to outspeed and OHKO Gligar, one of the largest offensive threats in the game without a Scarf.

Shellos looks good on paper, but actually has fairly poor defensive typing (doesn't resist anything important move combinations or moves, like Gligar's stabs, or Pawniard's Knock Off, fighting moves, etc), and provides a very small amount of utility. Yawn is a poor choice because of Generation 6 Sleep mechanics and the amount of VoltTurn abusers this meta. Toxic is fairly good at keeping walls in check, but there's just too many things that don't really care about poison like Spritzee, Foongus, Magnemite, Pawniard etc. It only gets stab on one move, and Water/Ice coverage with stab only on water really doesn't cut it in this meta. It lacks the utility or offensive or super tank capabilities that other beefy mons like Ponyta, Larvesta, Foongus, and Munchlax have to offer, and I don't think it's a B rank mon.

 

[GlassGlaceon]

I knew he was weak to a lot of priority but with the same base attack as Gyarados and Blaziken, D-rank really?

I don't think you understand how huge priority is in this metagame. The majority of mons outspeed/speed tie with this, although it's speed is not bad. or they can hit it with SE priority. Yes, cranidos is extremely powerful, yet also extremely frail, and if it even tries to run eviolite, it will be too weak to really do anything. BUT, i feel like we do give it too little credit. I will support cranidos for C-rank, as mentioned above, he has an out of this world attack stat of 125, making it almost as high as meditite's, sitting at a comfortably insane 24. backed up by an insanely powerful head smash, cranidos is a threat to be marvelled at.

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Cranidos Rock Slide vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 13-17 (48.1 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Cranidos Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 180 SpD Eviolite Hippopotas: 13-16 (56.5 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Cranidos Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 23-29 (95.8 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (rofl foo pls ur not even bulk)

those are just a couple of 2HKOs/OHKOS that wobby didn't mention that are extremely impressive. CRANIDOS CAN RUN A MIXED SET UNDER STICKY WEB. that's the thing i like about crani. his versatility and power makes him so lethal, but he is letdown by extremely poor defenses and a garbage typing.

(also rant on my main hitta lileep soon. Plantface betta be in b rank by the end of the week)

 

[Phemeto]

You can't really run Life orb on Cranidos, need choice scarf or it isn't out-speeding much with 16 speed (with max EV and Nature).

 

[blarajan]

no you can definitely use life orb, it's basically almost a requirement. that shit is too strong.

 

[Dustflier]

no you can definitely use life orb, it's basically almost a requirement. that shit is too strong.

^This. Life orb Crani is just ridiculous, but does require plenty of support. I used to run an Adamant Cranidos with Sheer Force and Rock Polish/Zen Headbutt/Rock Slide/Fire Punch. It definetly works best as a late game sweeper, as it plays fundamentally differently from the Scarf set. If you have a chance to set up, and all of the Priority users have been removed, Cranidos will basically auto-win you the game. Just my two cents though :3

 

[Nuclearreactor]

I might be new, but I'd like to argue that Gothita is deserving of C rank, for in the 20ish battles I've played (albeit against less experienced players such as myself) it has for the most part been quite useful. First of all, C rank is for Pokemon that "have notable niches in the LC metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being effective and tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon." I believe that Gothita fits these requirements well, as, with a Scarf, it can trap and kill key threats such as Gligar, as well as most of the numerous Fighting-types in the tier, paving the way for a sweep for many Pokemon such as Carvanha. However, some of these Pokemon run Scarf or Sucker Punch so its usefulness somewhat decreases. Regardless, the team support it provides is enough to get it into at least C rank.

 

[Ashley11]

I consider Gothita to be D rank. I must say, I used this before and was a little impressed, but not much. Gothita's main niche is to trap and revenge kill multple threats of the metagame, which it does fairly well. The problem though is that it is first of all hard to switch gothita into something as it isnt entirely to bulky, which means if you want to trap and kill something you have to USUALLY bring it in after something dies. Secondly, Wynaut almost always is the better option for trapping. You can switch wynaut into everything gothita switches into, and then give yourself the advantage. Wynaut lasts longer, and kills more things, as gothita CAN revenge kill fighting types and gligar, but afterwards your opponent can switch into their shell smash tirtouga and set up as you do your 12% with hidden power ice. Sure, C rank fits Gothita's description, but it is outclassed by wynaut most of the time, who is already in C rank. I can't see Gothita AND Wynaut in the same tier if wynaut outclasses the other as a trapper.

BTW, are we ever going to tier these into like A+, A and A-, B+ B and B-, etc.?

 

[Nuclearreactor]

I can see what you're saying, but I wouldn't say Wynaut completely outclasses Gothita. Gothita can outspeed many of the mentioned Pokemon before they get a chance to U-Turn, something Wynaut can't accomplish. I feel like they both deserve C.

 

[GlassGlaceon]

wynaut and gothita fill two different spots on a team. Gothita is that of a subpar fast revenge killer and wynaut is that of a threat remover/setup stopper/death to anything hard hitting. Wynaut has much more utility than goth in the fact that it has encore w/shadow tag, and destiny bond. The fact that it is also able to "0/2/3HKO almost the entire metagame" (technically) is also great for removing threats to setup sweepers you may have. you can destiny bond to threaten them to go for a status move, then you encore and bring in something that is immune to status/unaffected by it. Scarf Goth can work well as a good revenge killer, but i feel wynaut has the overall bulk, "power", and greater utility to handle threats in the metagame better than scarf goth. Although i do feel it is underrated, like REALLY badly.
| 162 | Beldum | 0.35500% | 667 | 0.676% | 533 | 0.665% |
| 178 | Gothita | 0.29306% | 293 | 0.297% | 234 | 0.292% |
this is....i dont even.
Gothita is relatively weak, and frail, but it can revenge weakened pokeomn very well. so im honestly torn. i think it should be D-rank tbh, as it cannot bet any form of pawn, while max def wynaut has a 95.7% chance of beating it, although it will almost always die soon after in the process. TBF, goth is sorely outclassed as a trapper by wynaut, but is a nb revenge killer and deserves D-Rank

 

[Wobbyble]

Gothita is d rank you mostly have to make predictions and risky plays to get it in at all, so you generally end up having a super hard time getting it in. Even then it gets only a few niche OHKOs on like Gligar... And that's about it. Its a lot weaker than Abra, so it cant OHKO thinks like Mienfoo and Foongus. One of the things that it wants to trap, misdreavus after u turned away from it, is immune to shadow tag. I've used it, and its extremely underwhelming. It's great if u kill gligar, but more often than not it doesn't happen.