Gen 6 UU Playstyles: Sandstorm

[Petrico94]

With the new gen., some of the sandstorm pokemon have dropped down into UU and might stay for a while. A few examples:

Hippowdon: Sand Stream is a big part of any sand team. By entering the next few turns will cause damage to anyone not rock/ground/steel or have the right abilities. While Tyranitar is still in OU, Hippowdon has fallen and is now usable for the backbone of any sand team.

Reuniclus: With Magic Guard, Reuniclus takes no damage from burns, poison, entry hazards and yes sand (and hail). With massive hp and spAtt, Reuniclus is hard to take down especially with calm mind, recover, and to make things more complicated, trick room and 30 base speed. With usual psychic coverage (psyshock, shadow ball, focus blast) and sand negating any leftover regeneration, Reuniclus can even be tough to survive w/o the right special defense.

Gastrodon: What's worse than Swampert tank? A Swampert who could come in on any water attack and gain power. If that's not your thing, it also gets sand force increasing all rock/ground/steel attacks it may have (note Gastrodon does not get steel attacks). To make things worse, it gets scald and recover.

Jirachi: Remember how Togekiss got Serene Grace? Jirachi got it first. The justification for her decent? Dark attacks like Pursuit aren't resisted by steel anymore. In any case, steel wont take extra damage from the storm.

Stoutland: While he didn't fall from OU, the possibility of on going sand storms could cause pokemon from RU or with abilities like Sand Rush will get to move further w/o the restrictions on weather. Stoutland gets various biting attacks, Return super stab, iron head if that's your thing and some fairly well built stats if you factor in x2 speed in sandstorms.

Metagross: While he's slow and has special stats around 90, Metagross hits HARD with 130 physical stats. The abilities aren't that special, Clear Body is ok if you're afraid of Intimidate or Crunch lowering your defense but that's the least of your worries if you're being crunched.

While Sand Stream was nerfed, is it a good idea to allow weather teams in uu? If Sandstorm themed teams are allowed to thrive, should any of these pokemon be banned back over the BL wall? Any others sand storm team members that could be added?

 

[Liquidocelot]

You could mention sandslash as it is the only sandrusher besides exca and lol drilbur to get rapid spin and it can make a somewhat decent sweeper with swords dance. Also just a nitpick but could you maybe change the title to uu playstyles: sandstorm it just sounds better and is what is used in other forums such as lc. Thanks also another great pokemon in sand is rhyperior thanks to Spd boost great phys attack stab edgequake and solid rock.

 

[EonX]

Here's some more options that generally just pair well with Hippowdon defensively:

Celebi: With a resistance to Water- and Grass-type moves, Celebi can reliably cover Hippowdon without too many issues. It has Giga Drain and Recover to keep itself healthy and make the passive Sandstorm damage a non-factor. The main drawback is that Celebi is weak to Ice, just like Hippowdon, so you'll need to make sure you have the team support to handle it.

Empoleon: In particular, Empoleon's AV set can work really well with Hippowdon by taking on many special attackers that Hippowdon can't handle. Hippo is bulky enough to take most Ground-type moves while being completely immune to Electric-type moves and Empoleon resists Water and has a 4x Ice resistance. Although Empoleon can't run SR or Roar with an Assault Vest equipped, Hippowdon can cover for this easily thanks to its access to SR and Whirlwind, meaning you only miss out on Defog.

Latias: Hippowdon absolutely hates Toxic Spikes, and it isn't exactly the biggest fan of Spikes either. Enter Defog Latias. Thanks to Defog, Latias can clear the field of entry hazards and Hippowdon certainly has the staying power to setup Rocks more than once if it needs to. Latias's access to Roost and ability to handle most Water- and Grass-type Pokemon Hippowdon is forced out by ensure that not many attackers can break this core.

 

[Kingler]

Roserade is an excellent user of Spikes with great natural synergy on sand teams; iirc it was great last gen UU when sand was legal and there was also an archived OU stall sand team with it, just showing how great it is/was on such teams.
Also I don't really like the idea of AV Empoleon, as Hippo usually needs a stall core, and AV means Empoleon gets worn down too fast. A specially defensive set with Defog seems the way to go, and can be paired with Wish support.

 

[Limitless]

The only reason to ever use a weather is to give at least one of your Pokemon an advantage in the game. For example, if you wanted to use Sandstorm, a viable reason would be to run Stoutland. I don't think running Sandstorm is viable for the distinct strategy alone of providing damage. Obviously, if Hippowdon fits on a team, then by all means (it fits on most teams) use it. However, I often find myself running Sand Rush over Sandstream, just because it's annoying to my core. For this reason, I don't think the minimal Sandstorm damage on the few turns it is active is worth building a team around.

That being said, the only viable strategy would be to make a team around either Stoutland or Sandslash. I would assume it's possible to make a solid team out of that strategy, but it would be ridiculously hard to pull off team building and battling wise.

 

[Cornholioam]

An effect of Sandstorm that often goes overlooked this side of Tyranitar is the fact that it boosts Rock type pokemon's Special Defences by 50% which is not negligible.

Sand Force Probopass and Sand Force Gigalith can work as tanks (Probopass being the better rounded one) with the bonus. Probopass in particular gets ridiculous on its Special Defence, but it suffers worse than Gigalith on the figthing weakness. In any case, both work as secondary sand storm setters.

Cradily should also be a first consideration for a second sandstorm setter, and gets ludicrously wally when it's up. Bastiodon is on the same vein, albeit worse. Carbink and Shuckle will get very annoying under the right conditions.

Omastar, Carracosta, Barbarcle and Crustle get an easier time setting up Shell Smash when covered by sandstorm. The last one might prefer to come right after Hippowdown to set up some entry hazzards though.

Armaldo gets a bit more usable, and it's not as if it was going to use swift swim anyway. On the same page, regular Aggron migth find neat the boost.

There is a specific kind of Rock pokemon that can level its Special Defence well enough to become a decent Wall or a Tank under Sandstorm. I find this to be the most interesting part of the mechanic.

Personally, I really dig the effect it has on Regular Aggron, Cradily, Probopass, Gigalith and Barbarcle.

 

[Kingler]

...
None of those Pokemon are viable in UU, barring Omastar, and even that doesn't really like sand...
Tyranitar is OU, so it has absolutely no effect on this sandstorm discussion.
EDIT: Oh, and I guess regular Aggron is kinda usable, but it wants to smash stuff, not tank hits.

 

[Ernesto]

You're forgetting Mega Aero. When Staraptor and Diggersby were around, Mega Aero could use a bulky spread to tank their hits while checking a bunch of Special stuff (such as MegaDoom or Chandelure) better with the Sand boost from Hippo. Now it's lost a bit of allure, but it's still the best answer to Tornadus-T, which is something, I guess.

EDIT: I was referring to the posts above me, not saying you should add it.

 

[Petrico94]

You're forgetting Mega Aero. When Staraptor and Diggersby were around, Mega Aero could use a bulky spread to tank their hits while checking a bunch of Special stuff (such as MegaDoom or Chandelure) better with the Sand boost from Hippo. Now it's lost a bit of allure, but it's still the best answer to Tornadus-T, which is something, I guess.

I don't have much hope for Mega Aero staying in UU. But that's just me.

 

[Porce]

What's the best option for a wish passer in a sand team whose typing works well with the team?

I know it may seem ridiculous to use Probopass in UU, but it gets both a 1.5x boost in SpD and a boost to its attacks with Sand Force. Its Volt Switch could help gain momentum for the team, and it could maybe go Choice Specs with Earth Power, Power Gem, and Flash Cannon which are all boosted by Sand Force. The typing sort of messes up though.

 

[Pyritie]

What's the best option for a wish passer in a sand team whose typing works well with the team?

I know it may seem ridiculous to use Probopass in UU, but it gets both a 1.5x boost in SpD and a boost to its attacks with Sand Force. Its Volt Switch could help gain momentum for the team, and it could maybe go Choice Specs with Earth Power, Power Gem, and Flash Cannon which are all boosted by Sand Force. The typing sort of messes up though.

Even though it can tank some pretty good hits, it can't really do much back

252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Probopass in Sand: 239-286 (73.7 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4+ SpA Choice Specs Sand Force Probopass Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heliolisk in Sand: 230-272 (86.4 - 102.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Probopass in Sand: 286-338 (88.2 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sand Force Probopass Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heliolisk in Sand: 306-362 (115 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO

a bit disappointing

 

[Porce]

Even though it can tank some pretty good hits, it can't really do much back

252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Probopass in Sand: 239-286 (73.7 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4+ SpA Choice Specs Sand Force Probopass Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heliolisk in Sand: 230-272 (86.4 - 102.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Probopass in Sand: 286-338 (88.2 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sand Force Probopass Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heliolisk in Sand: 306-362 (115 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO

a bit disappointing

That's a bit of a bad match up considering Heliolisk packs a 120bp 4x super effective move.

252 SpA Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Probopass in Sand: 90-106 (27.7 - 32.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sand Force Probopass Power Gem vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Houndoom in Sand: 422-500 (144.5 - 171.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Sand Force Probopass Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon in Sand: 211-249 (64.9 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Probopass in Sand: 60-72 (18.5 - 22.2%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Hydreigon Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Probopass in Sand: 240-284 (74 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Probopass can switch in on a choice locked Hydreigon and 2HKO it, or 2HKO a Hydreigon switch in hoping to take an earth power while surviving a focus blast).

252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Probopass in Sand: 72-85 (22.2 - 26.2%) -- 9% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sand Force Probopass Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Manectric in Sand: 350-412 (124.5 - 146.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Sand Force Probopass Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus in Sand: 222-262 (52.3 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Probopass in Sand: 260-307 (80.2 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Mismagius Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Probopass in Sand: 54-64 (16.6 - 19.7%) -- guaranteed 6HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sand Force Probopass Power Gem vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mismagius in Sand: 186-220 (70.9 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[EonX]

What's the best option for a wish passer in a sand team whose typing works well with the team?

Probably Vaporeon or Florges. Vaporeon has decent synergy with Hippowdon as it's immune to Water and resists Ice (watch for the Grass weakness!) while Florges has better synergy with common teammates like Stoutland, Reuniclus, Latias, and Celebi.

 

[Cornholioam]

I know most of the Pokemon I listed are gonna be mostly on NU but I think you'd be wrong discounting Cradily and Probopass especially and to a lesser extent, Omastar and Carracosta.

To put some perspective, while not the greatest; It lets Cradily win one on one against Greninja.

(No sand)
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cradily: 226-268 (60.1 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

(Sand)
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cradily in Sand: 151-179 (40.1 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0- SpA Cradily Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 164-194 (57.3 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

It laughs at things like Slowbro's Ice Beam:

252 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cradily in Sand: 76-90 (20.2 - 23.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

It can take super effective hits from Special Lucario and Magnezone like a champ (not saying it should). Sand giving it basically an extra hit on many special attacks.

Luc

252- SpA Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cradily in Sand: 102-120 (27.1 - 31.9%) -- 27.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Cradily Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 162-192 (57.6 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Zone

252+ SpA Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cradily in Sand: 134-158 (35.6 - 42%) -- 87.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Cradily Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 216-256 (62.7 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You can also put it in front of a Volcarona with no fear, it hard counters it with at least 148 EV's on S. Defence on a sandstorm.

252+ SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cradily in Sand: 152-182 (40.4 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Cradily Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 516-612 (165.3 - 196.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Not bad for taking super effective hits. It can let you do some things that seem counter intuitive.

 

[Kingler]

Lucario is OU. Greninja is OU. Volcarona is OU.
Anyway, Cradily has poor offensive presence, and many things can tank special hits while not being complete Toxic/Taunt bait. Relying on something that lasts 5 turns (4 if you immediately switch-in with it) is a poor idea, and should be discouraged.
Sand Rush mons + Smooth Rock Hippo seems like a cool idea; has anyone tried it out?

 

[Petrico94]

Let me remind people that this is for UU Sandstorm teams. Anything in OU or fitting into BL is no longer a threat and shouldn't have calculations compared towards.

 

[Lovelace]

I don't think we should fixate too much on Pokemon that have special benefits from Sandstorm. Last gen I saw many successful Hail Offense teams whose primary use of Hail was just to chip enemy walls with residual damage so their offensive Pokes could break through. While it's true that Sand is only temporary now, Hippowdown is an intrinsically good Pokemon that you can would want to be bringing in frequently anyways.

 

[mertyville]

From all the Weathers, I think Sand is the most boring one. A lot of pokemon might benefit from it in terms of not being affected by it, but besides Stoutland, I don't see much reason to use a sandstorm team in UU other than dealing passive damage.

Sun has powerful fire typs and chrollophyll user
Rain has strong Thunder/Hurrican Spammer and powerful Swift Swimmer
Hail has powerfull Blizzards and Kyurem

 

[Pants?]

Sigilyph - psycho shift (flame orb), cosmic power, stored power.


It takes no sand damage. It can block status and spread burn. Sand/burn is good for passive damage. It complements defensive rock types that enjoy the special attack buff of sand by maiming physical attackers and handling fighting/ground/grass attacks.

I've always liked that set and found it underrated in use. It needs the right team around it but it can be very powerful.

 

[Haden & Aria]

To be 100% honest, Metagross should NOT, and I stress the word "not", be playing in the UU league. There are too many reasons why, but as far as weather being in UU, I'm entirely okay with that, weather was never the problem rather the stats of some of the pokemon that abuse it.

 

[Petrico94]

To be 100% honest, Metagross should NOT, and I stress the word "not", be playing in the UU league. There are too many reasons why, but as far as weather being in UU, I'm entirely okay with that, weather was never the problem rather the stats of some of the pokemon that abuse it.

Are you suggesting Metagross be used in RU?

 

[Haden & Aria]

Are you suggesting Metagross be used in RU?

Are you putting words in my mouth?
Yes, yes you are.

 

[Petrico94]

Are you putting words in my mouth?
Yes, yes you are.

Well with OU filled with Charizard Megas, the steel nerf and knock off buff and steel-psychic not being a very useful typing, Metagross might not even bother trying to get back into OU. Now you're saying he shouldn't be in UU so I want to know where you think he should be to have a chance at winning?

 

[noknuckles]

He thinks it should be BL

 

[TM13IceBeam]

To be 100% honest, Metagross should NOT, and I stress the word "not", be playing in the UU league. There are too many reasons why, but as far as weather being in UU, I'm entirely okay with that, weather was never the problem rather the stats of some of the pokemon that abuse it.

imho i found metagross to be pretty balanced in uu. it's something like haxorus: a strong threat that should be prepared for for a team. there are several things that can beat metagross (rotom-h can force it out, zygarde laughs at it most of the time), and metagross's presence provides a strong weapon to use against stuff like florges and kyurem.