Doubles CCAT #2 - Completed!

[BlakDragon]

No, just something I came up with. There might be a way to hit the defensive benchmarks I wanted (namely 3HKO by Modest Char-Y Heat Wave and 2HKO by LO Latios Psyshock) with less HP for better Drain Punch recovery and/or more attack but messing with a damage calculator for about an hour I couldn't find a better spread. I thought about more attack investment to better deal with Intimidate users but you need full attack investment, Iron Fist or Hammer Arm to guarantee the 2HKO of 252 HP Scrafty and 188 attack and Iron Fist to OHKO Lando-T so I didn't think it was worth it.

Feel free to work on the spread, though. I'm pretty bad at it.

How's about this spread?
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 80 HP / 72 Atk / 124 Def / 232 SDef
Adamant Nature

With this spread, Conkeldurr avoids the OHKO from said Latios' Psyshock and is 3HKOed by said Mega Charizard Y's Heat Wave.
Compared to your spread, 24 attack EVs are sacrificed for living these hits, however.

I used Stats ' http://survivalcalc.appspot.com/ to help me find the spread that meets more of your wants.
Idk if you used this yourself, but this tool is very useful for finding specialized spreads.

 

[The Leprechaun]

TREEFROG

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 HP / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Sludge Bomb
- Earthquake
- Synthesis

Megasaur is a gluemon which i believe will solve a large number of problems discussed and more. I'm gonna do this in bullet points because there are a lot of points and i'm bad/ too tired to do it in prose.

• Heatran. Heatran can't do shit (a quiet eruption in sun does 80% at most but is does the same damage to conk so meh) and venu has a 12.5% chance to ohko it, easy 2hko.
• Bisharp. Gets guaranteed 2hko'd but can't always 2hko back.
• Defensive synergy. First of all, and most importantly, it gives a fairy resist which is pretty desperately needed right now while conk only gives another weakness to it. Water, grass and electric resists are great and we don't really have reliable ones.
• Bulk. Yeah we have cress but more bulk can't hurt right?
• Sleep. Not only is it immune to powder moves, it also is able to utilise sleep powder pretty effectively and reliably thanks to its bulk, resists and its offensive presence which is unique among sleep inducers.
• TR. In the event of emergency trick room, this poke will underspeed many normal pokes because of the nature.
• It's dope and i love it.

I was pretty lazy with the EV tailoring and building the set really, I just wanted to get the idea of Menusaur out so if anyone has better suggestions I'll change it at the next opportunity. :]]

 

[BlankZero]

Not Charizard (Heatran) @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 176 HP / 80 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Ice
- Protect

Why not fight Fire with Fire? We already have an answer to EQ spam with Salamence/Cress, but SubTran beats us hard, as said before. Something I find that works phenomenally (fucks up Sun too) is ShucaTran. Originally, I ran Ancientpower, and theoretically, we still could still run it to nuke Talonflame/Zard from existence, but HP Ice is generally a better "safe" choice.

It also has that nifty 4x Fairy Resist that we need on this team (We are super Fairy Weak) and could easily switch out HP Ice for Flash Cannon for coverage.

I'll post some calcs and refine the EVs from my computer.

Noms are ending tomorrow because we got a sudden influx of Noms today and need some discussion.

 

[Speedholes]

I love the idea of MegaSaur, it's such an awesome tank and gives us a much-needed Fairy resist. My one big problem with Assault Vest Conk is that it gives us yet another Fairy weakness for Sylveon or Azumarill to exploit. Venusaur just wrecks them all.

Only downside is reaching a consensus for its moveset and EVs, since it has so many good options. For example I find EQ to be very niche since it's really just meant for Heatran. We'll have to wait a see how the rest of the team pans out.

 

[BlankZero]

I love the idea of MegaSaur, it's such an awesome tank and gives us a much-needed Fairy resist. My one big problem with Assault Vest Conk is that it gives us yet another Fairy weakness for Sylveon or Azumarill to exploit. Venusaur just wrecks them all.

Only downside is reaching a consensus for its moveset and EVs, since it has so many good options. For example I find EQ to be very niche since it's really just meant for Heatran. We'll have to wait a see how the rest of the team pans out.

you could post another MegaSaur set with what you feel is the better alternative, OR you could wait til Revisions are happening.

your call though, as I'm giving Noms until Midnight.

 

[Speedholes]

I think waiting until revisions happen would be better, since MegaSaur has so many options a better alternative is hard to pin down without having a complete team. As it stands the proposed set may end up being the best, or it might only need minor tweaks, or we may want to do a full overhaul of the moves, nature and EVs.

 

[BlankZero]

I think waiting until revisions happen would be better, since MegaSaur has so many options a better alternative is hard to pin down without having a complete team. As it stands the proposed set may end up being the best, or it might only need minor tweaks, or we may want to do a full overhaul of the moves, nature and EVs.

I love the idea of running MegaSaur, but then what if we feel we need a different Mega? It's different if you build around a Mega like you do with Mawile, CharY, or even MegaKhan. MegaSaur is something you usually build around, not add on towards the end. It has far less Splashability, which worries me a bit.

 

[Stratos]

Blank id like to point out that this is our fifth pokemon

Also im going to post a suicune here in a sec

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
Pressure
Modest Nature
120 HP / 252 SpA / 132 Spe
-Hydro Pump
-Protect
-Tailwind
-Hidden Power Fighting

So the biggest problems with our team atm are weakness to trick room, tailwind, tran, bisharp, burn, and Rotom-W. Venusaur handles TR and Rotom-W, and tries to handle Tran and Sharp, but can't if it's burned or intimidated. I actually envisioned these two working together—suicune handles tran and bisharp very well, and tailwind, but invites sleep users and rotom-w which Venusaur takes care of easily. The EVs are to outspeed max bisharp (and thus also all trans) and fire off surprisingly powerful hydro pumps, which come just short of koing sharp sadly so i dropped ice beam for HP Fight.

 

[BlankZero]

Blank id like to point out that this is our fifth pokemon

Also im going to post a suicune here in a sec

I know. I prefer adding a Mega either first or 6th when teambuilding.

And Suicune better have Roar.

Edit: I am disappoint

 

[Pen Ink]

Rotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 128 SAtk / 120 SDef
Calm Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect

Nominating Rotom-W for the sake of it. Grants us more EQ immunity, a way to cripple Bisharp and other physical attackers, and it shits on Heatran. Synergizes extremely well with Terrakion, Bisharp, and Salamence, too. I guess there's not much to explain here? It's pretty standard Rotom-W, maybe the EV's could be a little better but it's okay.

I mean, what kind of Doubles CCAT would it be without any Rotom-W noms? ;)

edit: ok rotom lives modest char-y solarbeam now :)

 

[Stratos]

Pen Ink why are you using a shitty spread designed to live max ludi LO giga, thats not a benchmark you see in gen six like, ever. EV for Zard Y solarbeam or ur not a real human

 

[Bughouse]

Which, if Pwnemon were actually a good user, he would have put in his post...

EVs: 252 HP / 124 SDef / 132 SAtk, Modest for Timid CharY

idk them off the top of my head for Modest CharY

 

[Pen Ink]

Which, if Pwnemon were actually a good user, he would have put in his post...

EVs: 252 HP / 124 SDef / 132 SAtk, Modest

252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Rotom-W: 282-332 (92.7 - 109.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

 

[Bughouse]

I said those were the EVs for Timid CharY, which is true.
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Rotom-W: 256-302 (84.2 - 99.3%)

For Modest CharY, you'll want more investment. 252 HP / 136 SpA / 120 SpD, Calm seems to do the trick:
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Rotom-W: 256-302 (84.2 - 99.3%)

....Actually. Why do I(/we?) even use that first EV spread? This one is (technically) more efficient. It has an extra 27 SpD for only 26 lower SpA. Lol it gains one overall point.

 

[Darkmalice]

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Protect

My reasons for Azumarill:

• Hard hitting Pokemon that can take advantage of Cress' Trick Room should we use it, but is more than useable outside it - may as well make use of our own TR, and it also helps against opposing semi-TR teams
• Reliable and strong priority - Sucker Punch is not reliable. Makes great use on a highly-offensive orientated team
• Handles the Excadrill + Ttar combo well, as in sand, Excadrill is a significant problem if it can come into play when Salamence is already out (avoiding Intimidate and Fire Blast), outspeeding and OHKOing Bisharp and Terrakion whilst being unphased by Cress and threatens a 25% chance to OHKO Salamence with Rock Slide with a LO boost. Azumarill, however, always survives LO EQ and Rock Slide even without the Sitrus Berry and OHKOs Excadrill whilst having a strong match up against Tyranitar. The Sitrus is needed to avoid a KO from sandstorm damage or if Tyranitar holds a Mega Stone. I have some calcs below
• Conkeldurr is another big threat, OHKOing Bisharp, Terrakion, and Salamence (the latter even with Intimidate) - consider the OHKO threats, I feel that a second answer beyond Cress is needed, especially if Conk has TR support
• Obvious good match up against Heatran. Also underspeeds is, which is useful against Heatran if TR is up in order to prevent Heatran from setting up a Substitute (Terrakion can do the same outside of TR)
• Good to have a Water-resist that doesn't fear Ice Beam, which is useful against rain teams
• Great defensive typing to add defensive synergy onto the team, which is always welcome. For example, adding a second resist to Ice-, Steel-, and Dragon-. Bisharp can't be relied upon to resist all of this given it's bad special bulk and vulnerability to getting OHKOed. In return, this team has 3 Grass-type resists to cover Azumarill.
• Makes great use of Cress' Helping Hand with its raw power, OHKOing Bisharp with it whilst avoiding the 2HKO from Iron Head and resisting Knock Off / Sucker Punch.
• May as well add another physical attacker onto the team given that we're using Bisharp - gotta make good use of its Intimidate-deterrent abilities

azumarill vs excadrill + ttar

252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 216-255 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tyranitar Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 124-147 (30.6 - 36.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Helping Hand Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 360-426 (99.4 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO. Excadrill commonly has HP EVs though, so unless it has residual damage, you should probably go for the Waterfall.
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 294-348 (72.7 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Easy KO with Aqua Jet afterwards, or OHKO with Helping Hand

Whilst it doesn't fair well against Rotom-W, who has been brought up as a problem to the team, Rotom-W is currently manageable as Bisharp and Terrakion outspeed and OHKO it with a Helping Hand boost, which means we can afford to wait to our 6th Pokemon to check it. This, by extension, helps against the burn threat too. However, if we choose Azumarill, I strongly recommend having an Electric-type resist as the 6th Pokemon. Mega Venasuar perhaps?

 

[BlankZero]

Noms are closed

Edit: I'm allowing Azumarril because it looks like it took him 2 hours to type out.

 

[BlankZero]

Totem's Mawile

Ephixa (Mawile) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 124 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Fang
- Protect

WHY VOTE MAWILE

• 132 speed to beat TTar, Sylveon, Scizor and whatever else sits in that kinda tier
• Intimidate brings some more attack control to the table
• More Priority = Good
• Potential shenanigans with TR cress
• Generally great damage output
• Fairy resist and Dragon immune

WrightofWay's Conkeldurr

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Atk / 16 Def / 144 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off

• Attack EVs are enough to OHKO Garchomp with Ice Punch and 252 HP Tyranitar with Drain Punch. Will also 2HKO Landorus-T and Salamence after Intimidate and 2HKO 252 HP Rotom-W with a Guts boost (or Helping Hand from Cress.)
• 4HKOed by Heatran Heat Wave, 3HKOed by Modest Charizard-Y Heat Wave and Cresselia Psyshock and 2HKOed by LO Latios Psyshock.
• Works well in Trick Room.
• Can switch into Will-O-Wisps or Thunder Waves intended for teammates and net an attack boost out of it.

Laga's Stunfisk

Leprechaun's Venusaur

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 HP / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Sludge Bomb
- Earthquake
- Synthesis

Megasaur is a gluemon which i believe will solve a large number of problems discussed and more. I'm gonna do this in bullet points because there are a lot of points and i'm bad/ too tired to do it in prose.

• Heatran. Heatran can't do shit (a quiet eruption in sun does 80% at most but is does the same damage to conk so meh) and venu has a 12.5% chance to ohko it, easy 2hko.
• Bisharp. Gets guaranteed 2hko'd but can't always 2hko back.
• Defensive synergy. First of all, and most importantly, it gives a fairy resist which is pretty desperately needed right now while conk only gives another weakness to it. Water, grass and electric resists are great and we don't really have reliable ones.
• Bulk. Yeah we have cress but more bulk can't hurt right?
• Sleep. Not only is it immune to powder moves, it also is able to utilise sleep powder pretty effectively and reliably thanks to its bulk, resists and its offensive presence which is unique among sleep inducers.
• TR. In the event of emergency trick room, this poke will underspeed many normal pokes because of the nature.
• It's dope and i love it.

I was pretty lazy with the EV tailoring and building the set really, I just wanted to get the idea of Menusaur out so if anyone has better suggestions I'll change it at the next opportunity. :]]

BlankZero's Heatran

Not Charizard (Heatran) @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 176 HP / 80 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Ice
- Protect

Why not fight Fire with Fire? We already have an answer to EQ spam with Salamence/Cress, but SubTran beats us hard, as said before. Something I find that works phenomenally (fucks up Sun too) is ShucaTran. Originally, I ran Ancientpower, and theoretically, we still could still run it to nuke Talonflame/Zard from existence, but HP Ice is generally a better "safe" choice.

It also has that nifty 4x Fairy Resist that we need on this team (We are super Fairy Weak) and could easily switch out HP Ice for Flash Cannon for coverage.

Pwnemon's Suicune

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
Pressure
Modest Nature
120 HP / 252 SpA / 132 Spe
-Hydro Pump
-Protect
-Tailwind
-Hidden Power Fighting

So the biggest problems with our team atm are weakness to trick room, tailwind, tran, bisharp, burn, and Rotom-W. Venusaur handles TR and Rotom-W, and tries to handle Tran and Sharp, but can't if it's burned or intimidated. I actually envisioned these two working together—suicune handles tran and bisharp very well, and tailwind, but invites sleep users and rotom-w which Venusaur takes care of easily. The EVs are to outspeed max bisharp (and thus also all trans) and fire off surprisingly powerful hydro pumps, which come just short of koing sharp sadly so i dropped ice beam for HP Fight.

PenInk's Rotom-W

Rotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 128 SAtk / 120 SDef
Calm Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect

Nominating Rotom-W for the sake of it. Grants us more EQ immunity, a way to cripple Bisharp and other physical attackers, and it shits on Heatran. Synergizes extremely well with Terrakion, Bisharp, and Salamence, too. I guess there's not much to explain here? It's pretty standard Rotom-W, maybe the EV's could be a little better but it's okay.

I mean, what kind of Doubles CCAT would it be without any Rotom-W noms? ;)

DarkMalice's Azumarril

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Protect

My reasons for Azumarill:

• Hard hitting Pokemon that can take advantage of Cress' Trick Room should we use it, but is more than useable outside it - may as well make use of our own TR, and it also helps against opposing semi-TR teams
• Reliable and strong priority - Sucker Punch is not reliable. Makes great use on a highly-offensive orientated team
• Handles the Excadrill + Ttar combo well, as in sand, Excadrill is a significant problem if it can come into play when Salamence is already out (avoiding Intimidate and Fire Blast), outspeeding and OHKOing Bisharp and Terrakion whilst being unphased by Cress and threatens a 25% chance to OHKO Salamence with Rock Slide with a LO boost. Azumarill, however, always survives LO EQ and Rock Slide even without the Sitrus Berry and OHKOs Excadrill whilst having a strong match up against Tyranitar. The Sitrus is needed to avoid a KO from sandstorm damage or if Tyranitar holds a Mega Stone. I have some calcs below
• Conkeldurr is another big threat, OHKOing Bisharp, Terrakion, and Salamence (the latter even with Intimidate) - consider the OHKO threats, I feel that a second answer beyond Cress is needed, especially if Conk has TR support
• Obvious good match up against Heatran. Also underspeeds is, which is useful against Heatran if TR is up in order to prevent Heatran from setting up a Substitute (Terrakion can do the same outside of TR)
• Good to have a Water-resist that doesn't fear Ice Beam, which is useful against rain teams
• Great defensive typing to add defensive synergy onto the team, which is always welcome. For example, adding a second resist to Ice-, Steel-, and Dragon-. Bisharp can't be relied upon to resist all of this given it's bad special bulk and vulnerability to getting OHKOed. In return, this team has 3 Grass-type resists to cover Azumarill.
• Makes great use of Cress' Helping Hand with its raw power, OHKOing Bisharp with it whilst avoiding the 2HKO from Iron Head and resisting Knock Off / Sucker Punch.
• May as well add another physical attacker onto the team given that we're using Bisharp - gotta make good use of its Intimidate-deterrent abilities

azumarill vs excadrill + ttar

252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 216-255 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tyranitar Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 124-147 (30.6 - 36.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Helping Hand Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 360-426 (99.4 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO. Excadrill commonly has HP EVs though, so unless it has residual damage, you should probably go for the Waterfall.
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 294-348 (72.7 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Easy KO with Aqua Jet afterwards, or OHKO with Helping Hand

Whilst it doesn't fair well against Rotom-W, who has been brought up as a problem to the team, Rotom-W is currently manageable as Bisharp and Terrakion outspeed and OHKO it with a Helping Hand boost, which means we can afford to wait to our 6th Pokemon to check it. This, by extension, helps against the burn threat too. However, if we choose Azumarill, I strongly recommend having an Electric-type resist as the 6th Pokemon. Mega Venasuar perhaps?

3 Days to vote.

Really proud of you guys this round. A lot of picks overall, as well as a lot of them being non-standard which is a good thing.

 

[Laga]

wow man stunfisk is super legit

anyways yeah voting totem

 

[The Leprechaun]

I know the set isn't all that but i honestly believe megasaur is a good idea so The Leprechaun.

 

[Speedholes]

The Leprechaun

 

[Stratos]

please anything but mawile it literally helps the team with zero of its problems

i want megasaur and suicune as last two so im going to go with the voting bloc here and say The Leprechaun

 

[Bughouse]

WrightofWay though I want to futz with the EVs most likely. Suicune and Azumarill are cool too. Not sold on Venusaur.

 

[BLOOD TOTEM]

No idea what to vote here :<
Kinda wish I'd suggested Mega Heracross with Guts as the base ability but it's too late now.

Guess I'll roll with the Venusaur

 

[Pen Ink]

TheLeprechaun

 

[BlankZero]

WrightofWay