XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

[TheTraininator]

So I was looking over the viability rankings when I came to a realization: B+ tier is a disservice to Entei. It is an extremely anti-meta Pokemon, as once it comes in, nothing much can really afford to switch into it. Think I'm kidding? Well, let's look at our S rank to see who can switch into Entei safely:

Hawlucha - Takes a shitton from Banded Sacred Fire and hates the burn, not even close to a safe switch in

Haxorus - Can switch into most of Entei's attacks, but can't afford a burn

Klefki - Yeah, just try to switch this thing into Sacred Fire. I dare you.

Magnezone - Again, can't switch in safely to SF, has to come in on something else... but why would you switch Magnezone into Entei anyway?

Mew - 252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mew: 246-289 (60.8 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Not a fun time)

Mienshao - See Hawlucha

Salamence - Not only can he not stand the burn, but he takes a shitton from Stone Edge EVEN AFTER INTIMIDATE.

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 264-312 (79.5 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock​

Slowbro - Alright, he wins.

Tornadus-T - Not a fan of Burn OR Stone Edge, and doesn't even have Intimidate, unlike Mence.

So out of the entire S rank, the only thing that can switch in safely to Entei is Slowbro. Ouch.
But it gets worse. Out of the entirety of the UU viability ranking list, these are the things that can switch into Entei:

Slowbro

Blastoise/Blastoise-Mega

Suicune

Hippowdon (Hates the burn though)

Zygarde (Also hates burn)

Gastrodon

Jellicent

Vaporeon

Kingdra

Quagsire

Alomomola

Milotic (Notably actually appreciates the burn somewhat)

Swampert (Still not a burn fan)

Qwilfish

Rhyperior (Don't burn me, Entei-senpai)

Seismitoad

Cresselia

That's literally it, in the entirety of the viability ranking list. Notice a pattern? Mostly only physically bulky water types can really afford to switch in, and how many bulky waters do you carry per team? Rarely ever more than one, and once it is dead, NOTHING CAN SWITCH INTO ENTEI. There is no reason why Entei shouldn't be at least A rank.

THIS TIER​

IS MY BITCH​

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Please no, this thing is so ridiculous overrated its just silly at this point. Who cares about a 47% (factoring in accuracy) burn chance when you could just slap a life orb and 4 overpowered moves on victini and nuke everything on your path? Sacred fire is amazing but thats literally everything entei has and tini+darm are just so much better due to higher damage output, u-turn and better coverage. Theres also defensive arcanine who can spread burns with wow while being able to check many physical threats or offensive arcanine who has an actual offensive movepool. Theres absolutely no reason to use entei, it has no real merit over its fellow fire types.

 

[Franklyna]

Omastar is also a hard check to Entei. It would take Entei 5 or 6 uses of Sacred Fire or Extremespeed to kill Omastar, while Omastar can 1HKO back with Surf. Only Stone Miss has a chance to 2HKO, provided it doesn't miss either time and Entei isn't choicelocked into any of his other moves. Though not on the viability list, Kabutops is also a hard check, but he really doesn't appreciate being burned.

 

[KM]

Slowbro

Blastoise/Blastoise-Mega

Suicune

Hippowdon (Hates the burn though)

Zygarde (Also hates burn)

Gastrodon

Jellicent

Vaporeon

Kingdra

Quagsire

Alomomola

Milotic (Notably actually appreciates the burn somewhat)

Swampert (Still not a burn fan)

Qwilfish

Rhyperior (Don't burn me, Entei-senpai)

Seismitoad

Cresselia

So this "short" list of things that can switch into Entei...

1. It isn't short. Most offensive pokes would dread having this many things that can safely switch in. Compare it to something like Victini, where practically nothing can be safe from being 2HKOd by one of its sets, and you're paling in comparison.

2. Most of these pokemon are extremely common. Well-designed teams carry at least one of them. And given the extent to which they stop Entei in his tracks, anyone with half a brain will keep them healthy so they can deal with them.

Finally, I'd like to debunk a little of the Sacred Fire Hype. Yes, it has a great burn chance. But when you compare it to V-Create, you lose out on a massive 80 base power and a little bit of accuracy for some usually useless utility and the bonus of not having some lowered stats. Except, that's not to say it's spammable, because it only has 8 PP.

And for the record, I'm not sure why everyone seems to be obsessed with comparing sweepers to their ability to hurt things in S-rank. It's not like you create viable teams just by pulling 6 random mons out of S rank and hoping for the best, especially given that two thirds of them are offensive.

 

[TheTraininator]

So this "short" list of things that can switch into Entei...

1. It isn't short. Most offensive pokes would dread having this many things that can safely switch in. Compare it to something like Victini, where practically nothing can be safe from being 2HKOd by one of its sets, and you're paling in comparison.

2. Most of these pokemon are extremely common. Well-designed teams carry at least one of them. And given the extent to which they stop Entei in his tracks, anyone with half a brain will keep them healthy so they can deal with them.

Finally, I'd like to debunk a little of the Sacred Fire Hype. Yes, it has a great burn chance. But when you compare it to V-Create, you lose out on a massive 80 base power and a little bit of accuracy for some usually useless utility and the bonus of not having some lowered stats. Except, that's not to say it's spammable, because it only has 8 PP.

And for the record, I'm not sure why everyone seems to be obsessed with comparing sweepers to their ability to hurt things in S-rank. It's not like you create viable teams just by pulling 6 random mons out of S rank and hoping for the best, especially given that two thirds of them are offensive.

What I would like to point put is the fact that you're saying how effective Entei is by comparing it to Victini. Keep in mind that a Pokemon is not made less effective by another Pokemon performing well in a similar role, unless it is totally outclassed, which Entei is not.

And that list is a lot smaller than you'd think when you realize that a lot of Pokemon on that list are from lower ranks and have trouble with a large amount of the rest of the tier, meaning they have little use outside of stopping Entei. May I also add the fact that a lot of those Pokemon on that list perform strikingly similar roles, meaning most teams will rarely more than one of them at a time.

And yes, Entei's Sacred Fire isn't as powerful as Victini's V-Create or Darmanitan's Flare Blitz, but when you have to be worried about sending in your counters and checks based on a whopping one in two chance they will be crippled, the move becomes a lot scarier. Rarely are you ever going to use the move the full 8 times either, so the pp thing is pretty irrelevant.

Also neither Victini nor Darmanitan have priority, so there's that.

Omastar is also a hard check to Entei. It would take Entei 5 or 6 uses of Sacred Fire or Extremespeed to kill Omastar, while Omastar can 1HKO back with Surf. Only Stone Miss has a chance to 2HKO, provided it doesn't miss either time and Entei isn't choicelocked into any of his other moves. Though not on the viability list, Kabutops is also a hard check, but he really doesn't appreciate being burned.

• 252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Bulldoze vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Omastar: 164-194 (58.1 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And before you question if Bulldoze is viable for anything else...

1. 252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Bulldoze vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Tentacruel: 188-222 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
2. 252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Bulldoze vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 220-260 (59.1 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
3. 252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Bulldoze vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lanturn: 306-362 (67.4 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Which is why I included none of them on my safe switch in list.

And don't worry, you're not missing out on anything by not running Iron Head

• 252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 226-267 (62.7 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[viol and bass]

It's also worth noting that Entei's Sacred Fire not only has plenty of safe switch-ins, but also is hardly crippling in a tier in which clerics abound. Florges is everywhere and essentially always runs Aromatherapy; Umbreon is too and it always runs Heal Bell. Vaporeon frequently does, Celebi frequently does, Mega Ampharos frequently does; Roserade can use Aromatherapy well. I would guess that the majority of teams in the current metagame have a cleric, and with so many mons able to switch into Entei, it's a relevant point.

 

[TheTraininator]

It's also worth noting that Entei's Sacred Fire not only has plenty of safe switch-ins, but also is hardly crippling in a tier in which clerics abound. Florges is everywhere and essentially always runs Aromatherapy; Umbreon is too and it always runs Heal Bell. Vaporeon frequently does, Celebi frequently does, Mega Amoharos frequently does; Roserade can use Aromatherapy well. I would guess that the majority of teams in the current metagame have a cleric, and with so many mons able to switch into Entei, it's a relevant point.

Yeah, but are you really going to run Qwilfish, Blastoise, Suicune, Jellicent, Vaporeon, and Quagsire on the same team? No, you're probably going to run one of them, and a fat lot of good it will do you when it's dead. As I was trying to point out with my list, only one real archetype of Pokemon can switch into Entei safely, with a couple of exceptions like bulky ground types who hate burn and Cresselia. Cresselia is the only non-bulky water who can switch into Entei without fear of burn in the entire metagame.

Let me also point out that you are also likely to only be running one cleric per team, (and if that cleric is Vaporeon, that's your bulky water as well.) You can't always be expected to get a reliable chance to bring in that cleric every time Entei nukes something with Sacred Fire, as sooner or later you'll bring in the cleric at the wrong time or have to sack it and then Entei can run free. It also doesn't help that most of those clerics you mentioned can't switch into Entei either, (again with the exception of Vaporeon,) meaning you have to often switch something into Entei, hope it doesn't get burned, and if it does you've gotta switch it out and hope you get a chance to heal it up again.

A Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame.

If 9/10 Pokemon in the metagame can't even switch into Entei safely for fear of either being 2HKO'd or being crippled, or BOTH, then I think it's safe to say that Entei can handle a significant portion of the metagame.

 

[BurningFury101]

I'd like to point out that you're making everything in a specific position. You're making each attack as they're "switching in to Entei" which is honestly not always going to happen, people sack their Pokemon for free switches, you know. You're even using max attack Choice Band Entei. Keep in mind that your "short list" have Pokemon that are found in just about every team of UU (What team doesn't have a wall?). Again, mentioning that you're Choice Banded too means that Entei will probably have to switch out quite a lot so it won't get walled (Sacred Fire/Extreme Speed, it's main moves are useless against Chandelure). I personally do agree with Entei going up to a Rank or two, but you're making such a big deal of it and making it seem like a better Pokemon then it really is. You're also giving Darmanitan and Victini too little attention. They are most definitely superior. Both hit harder even without Choice Band (with Choice Band they hit HELLA harder). Sure, they may be lacking Priority, but the Sheer Power of their moves will already be enough to OHKO-2HKO the tier. Also, Entei has a VERY predictable moveset, compared to Victini who can run Special, Scarf, Physical, and Banded.

Despite having lots of good points, the problems with your postings are:

• Making Entei seem better then it is
• Putting each and every Pokemon in your examples switching in
• Not mentioning Entei's poor movepool (except 5 moves), meaning it's very predictable

Here are Life Orb calcs:

4 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 236-282 (63.4 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 140-166 (30.1 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Tentacruel Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 182-216 (48.9 - 58%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Bulldoze vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Tentacruel: 164-195 (45 - 53.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

4 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 218-260 (58.6 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 96-114 (24.3 - 28.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 273-321 (75.8 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hawlucha Sky Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 228-268 (61.2 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 178-211 (47.8 - 56.7%) -- 88.7% chance to 2HKO

Here are Choice Banded calcs:

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 162-191 (34.9 - 41.1%) -- 67.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Bulldoze vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Tentacruel: 188-222 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 111-131 (28.1 - 33.2%) -- 91.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 313-369 (86.9 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Yeah.. four rather common Pokemon (Except Tentacruel) can take a Choice Banded attack and counter back winning (unless they get some crit hax or they had prior damage). All in all, I think Entei should goto A Rank due to sheer power, but it's too predictable, and although 110 is good base attack, it has no way to boost it without using CBand or Life Orb. Entei also is walled by a few Pokemon. But it's still a good Pokemon, and that's what I think of Entei.

 

[TheTraininator]

I'd like to point out that you're making everything in a specific position. You're making each attack as they're "switching in to Entei" which is honestly not always going to happen, people sack their Pokemon for free switches, you know. You're even using max attack Choice Band Entei. Keep in mind that your "short list" have Pokemon that are found in just about every team of UU (What team doesn't have a wall?). Again, mentioning that you're Choice Banded too means that Entei will probably have to switch out quite a lot so it won't get walled (Sacred Fire/Extreme Speed, it's main moves are useless against Chandelure). I personally do agree with Entei going up to a Rank or two, but you're making such a big deal of it and making it seem like a better Pokemon then it really is. You're also giving Darmanitan and Victini too little attention. They are most definitely superior. Both hit harder even without Choice Band (with Choice Band they hit HELLA harder). Sure, they may be lacking Priority, but the Sheer Power of their moves will already be enough to OHKO-2HKO the tier. Also, Entei has a VERY predictable moveset, compared to Victini who can run Special, Scarf, Physical, and Banded.

Despite having lots of good points, the problems with your postings are:

• Making Entei seem better then it is
• Putting each and every Pokemon in your examples switching in
• Not mentioning Entei's poor movepool (except 5 moves), meaning it's very predictable

Here are Life Orb calcs:

4 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 236-282 (63.4 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 140-166 (30.1 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Tentacruel Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 182-216 (48.9 - 58%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Bulldoze vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Tentacruel: 164-195 (45 - 53.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

4 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 218-260 (58.6 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 96-114 (24.3 - 28.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 273-321 (75.8 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hawlucha Sky Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 228-268 (61.2 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 178-211 (47.8 - 56.7%) -- 88.7% chance to 2HKO

Here are Choice Banded calcs:

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 162-191 (34.9 - 41.1%) -- 67.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Bulldoze vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Tentacruel: 188-222 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 111-131 (28.1 - 33.2%) -- 91.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 313-369 (86.9 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Yeah.. four rather common Pokemon (Except Tentacruel) can take a Choice Banded attack and counter back winning (unless they get some crit hax or they had prior damage). All in all, I think Entei should goto A Rank due to sheer power, but it's too predictable, and although 110 is good base attack, it has no way to boost it without using CBand or Life Orb. Entei also is walled by a few Pokemon. But it's still a good Pokemon, and that's what I think of Entei.

A few points:

1. Yes I am intentionally judging everything's ability to switch into Entei. This is because it is a standard procedure to evaluate how effective a Pokemon is by putting it in a situation where it is at an advantage, and see how the opponent can deal with it, as has been done with all the OU suspect test threads. Keep in mind it isn't hard for Entei to find a time to switch in either, as Entei simply has to come in after a teammate has died or use its natural bulk to switch in safely an proceed to blast things. In Entei's case, once it gets its easy advantage, the scenario amounts to mostly this: have a bulky water, or you're f*cked.

2. I'm using Banded max attack Entei in all my calcs because it is above and beyond Entei's best and most popular set. It rarely uses/has need to use anything else, considering it 2HKO's 90% of the metagame.

3. There's a reason I'm not mentioning Darmanitan and Victini much: they aren't at all relevant to how good Entei is. They are only important to Entei's viability if they totally outclass Entei, which they do not. Their main stabs have huge drawbacks while Eneti's is more spammable and brings the burning plague, both V and D lack priority (which is much more important than you make it out to be; neither can effectively revenge kill a weakened Hawlucha if it has set up because they aren't fast enough, whereas Entei's Extremespeed easily deals over half its health withou having to give a shit about how fast it is,) and Entei can deal with a whole separate threatlist than the two of them, (Entei beats Lanturn unlike Victini and scares more switchins with burn than Darmanitan, yadda yadda yadda,) making him not in the slightest bit outclassed.

4. Yes Entei only has 4 moves it will ever use, but it harldy matters as those 4 moves beat 90% of the tier. The only thing it kisses is a way to beat bulky waters, which is where the real competition with Victini arises. It doesn't matter if Entei's predictable if you can't stop it. For the most part, Mega Kangaskhan only ever ran one set, but that didn't make it any harder to stop.

So that's the method behind my madness, though I'm glad we're agreed Entei's a threat.

 

[Schpoonman]

BurningFury, I want to nitpick a few things. First, Entei has 115 base Attack. Second, Victini is unpredictable on paper only. His special set is only barely viable at best and dead weight at worst given how powerful the special walls in the tier are, so to use that as a point in Victini's favor is misleading when preparing for special Victini is a waste of teambuilding. I suppose preparing for Chandelure would accomplish the same thing, but what makes Victini himself viable is V-create and Bolt Strike, so using a set that doesn't include them is like trying to use Entei without Sacred Fire.

 

[Limitless]

I updated the rankings with all the bans and addition of Thundurus-T. Due to Crawdaunt being banned, I lowered Chesnaught to rank A and Doublade to rank A-. However, I can see both of these Pokemon falling even further.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Dang I really want to propose Flygon moving up but I don't know how to say it without acting dumb. It's still kind of outclassed by Zygarde and Kyurem offensively but it's a good scout in this meta, since all of the other dragons are completely gone aside from those 2.

(Same with Pory2 but that was proposed to move even before the bans; It's a pretty okay check to Thundy-T IMO, though it may have to watch out for mixed sets (I dunno if it has Knock Off and Superpower together, I know Torn-T does). It still hates Physical Torn-T tho.)

 

[Hidious]

How about zygarde for at least A+ now since it is probably the best set up sweeper now that haxorus, salamence, and hawlucha are gone. S is probably a big stretch because the recent bans didn't really take away any checks besides scarf salamence, but he did improve by virtue of better pokemon for his role being removed

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Where can I find the new changes?

 

[newfren]

The new np thread has them.

 

[KM]

BurningFury, I want to nitpick a few things. First, Entei has 115 base Attack. Second, Victini is unpredictable on paper only. His special set is only barely viable at best and dead weight at worst given how powerful the special walls in the tier are, so to use that as a point in Victini's favor is misleading when preparing for special Victini is a waste of teambuilding. I suppose preparing for Chandelure would accomplish the same thing, but what makes Victini himself viable is V-create and Bolt Strike, so using a set that doesn't include them is like trying to use Entei without Sacred Fire.

Special Victini, or Mixed Victini, for that matter, is extraordinarily viable. I think it's slightly hypocritical to say that a base 100 move coming off a base 115 Attack (Entei's Sacred Fire) is absolutely necessary and overpowering, yet a base 130 move coming off of a base 100 SpA is paltry and underwhelming (Victini's Blue Flare). Slap on the fact that Blue Flare has a decent burn chance as well and you've got yourself an interesting hole to dig yourself out of, lol.

The reason special Victini's viable isn't because it deals massive damage. If Victini could only run special sets, it would probably be around a B/B- rank. He has good power, good bulk, and good coverage, but he suffers from some bad typing and weaknesses to hazards. However, Special Victini has a tremendous amount of surprise value. Unlike fire sweepers like Entei or Darm, Victini's item and set can not be immediately determined as soon as it's switched in. Victini can viably run a Banded set, a Scarfed set, a Life Orb set, a Charcoal/Flame Plate set, an Expert Belt set, a Specs set. With these items, Victini can choose to go go physical, special, mixed, or even Trick Room mixed - and not even all special/mixed sets are the same, as you have tremendous options to choose from. As such, the presence of new special walls is rather irrelevant for Special Victini, because no one in their right mind would switch in a Florges into a Victini without prior knowledge of its entire set.

Victini was on the table for being banned last gen. The introduction of Florges and the consequent downfall of Snorlax have not made all sets other than its physical one completely irrelevant.

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

Not gonna commit to the Entei hate/love wagon, but I would just be curious as to why it is ranked below Arcanine in B-minus...Entei's got much better HP, better Attack, and Speed than Arcanine, at the cost of not having Intimidate, Close Combat, or recovery in Morning Sun. Offensive Arcanine gets a run for its money in comparison to Entei when you factor in Flare Blitz recoil (and Wild Charge if you're into that for whatever reason), potential stat drops after Close Combat, and Life Orb recoil compromising its bulk in comparison to Entei's ability to both hit hard and spread burns at the same time. Not to mention offensive Arcanine gets competition from Darmanitan and Victini as well as others have mentioned, and the defensive set's pretty much what's holding its niche up. If that's all there is for it then I propose Entei for A- rank or Arcanine for B+ rank because I don't really feel Arcanine should be viewed as outrightly superior in comparison to it.

 

[Liquidocelot]

Because of the new bans and it's sheer power I would like to nominate Nidoking for S rank.

This thing is by far the best wallbreaker in the tier and can with the right coverage moves 2hko the entire tier. Not only this but with the bans of common pokemon such as salamence,haxorus and crawdaunt it is much harder to check offensively and almost impossible to check defensively.

 

[Petrico94]

Is Florges lower in rank now that 3 powerhouse dragons are gone?

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Florges has always been A+, and she'll likely stay as a somewhat decent switchin to Thundurus-T. She's still used as setup fodder, but against non-NP versions, she's a pretty good stop to them.

 

[dumbguyfin]

Because of the new bans and it's sheer power I would like to nominate Nidoking for S rank.

This thing is by far the best wallbreaker in the tier and can with the right coverage moves 2hko the entire tier. Not only this but with the bans of common pokemon such as salamence,haxorus and crawdaunt it is much harder to check offensively and almost impossible to check defensively.

Add the fact that it is the best stop for aggron and florges core. Umbreon is really the only defensive check (unless nidoking has focus blast, making even umbreon a shaky check)

 

[sickweare]

What do you all think about Granbull? It's possibly one of the best Mienshao counters out there, with all of Mienshao's moves doing little to Bull (thanks to fairy typing + intimidate). It also serves as a great Heracross counter as well. Yeah, with the removal of Salamence and Haxorus it lost its dragon checking ability (they ran moves to take care of fairy types anyhow). It still comes with some great support options, like Heal Bell, Thunder Wave, Roar, and Taunt, as well as a good 120 base Attack to fire off some nasty Play Roughs. Obviously it isn't perfect, as it has low Special Defense and Speed, meaning many special attackers (like Nidoking) come in on it easily, but it serves its purpose really well as a Fighting type counter (except maybe Toxicroak). What do you all think? I think it deserves some placement, but I'm not sure where. Maybe C+?

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 77-91 (20 - 23.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 81-95 (21 - 24.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 60-72 (15.6 - 18.7%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Liquidocelot]

Add the fact that it is the best stop for aggron and florges core. Umbreon is really the only defensive check (unless nidoking has focus blast, making even umbreon a shaky check)

Well umbreon is 2hko'd by F-blast so really the only counter/check is SpD mew.

 

[Limitless]

These are some changes that I made in response to the Thundurus-T drop and bans:

Suicune to S rank.
Snorlax to A- rank.
Hippowdon to A+ rank.
Tangrowth to A- rank.

There are a number of offensive Pokemon that I will likely increase in ranking, as they were previously out-shined by things that have been banned. However, I'm hesitant to change those till we see which Pokemon rise to the top.

 

[Taehl]

I don't see how the Thundurus-t drop made Suicune s-rank.