Gonna bring this up again, as it kind of got buried in a different discussion. The only two other pokemon that can reliably act as a cleric and a pivot are Celebi and Mega Ampharos. Mega Ampharos takes up a mega slot, and is a generally uncommon mega, and while Celebi is decent, it is weak to quite a few types, so it may not fit on all teams. And again a key typing and ability with resistance to Bolt-Beam that allows it to come in and stay in on most water and electric types.
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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)
- Thread starter alexwolf
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Rotosect
Banned deucer.
I'm beginning to question Mega Pinsir's S-rank placement. Don't get me wrong it's a terrifying late-game sweeper but it has two major flaws that can't be overlooked.
For one, it's an extremely mono-dimensional pokemon, in fact I'd go as far as saying it's the most predictable pokemon in the tier, with a grand total of one viable set with little room for creativity (Feint over Quick Attack and Close Combat over Earthquake are the only reasonable, if sub-optimal, alternatives).
Everyone knows what Pinsir is going to do and therefore they prepare for it. If they don't pack one of its very few dedicated counters such as Skarmory then they're going to pack something that can stop its sweep like Talonflame, Focus Sash Alakazam or Scarf Tyranitar. It's very similar to Moxie Salamence in back in BW: very few safe switch-ins, but in practice there are many viable ways to stop it.
The second major flaw is its overall frailness. It's almost impossible to switch Pinsir in more than once per match because of its extreme weakness to entry hazards (both before and after mega evolving), its defensive type is one of the worst in the game and its bulk is nothing to write home about. Simply put Pinsir can't provide any form of defensive synergy to a team, unlike Mega Lucario who still had a ton of resistances and could switch in far more safely despite its mediocre bulk (also, M-Lucario could just switch out with little consequence thanks to its 4x SR resistance). In other words against most teams you'll be playing 5 vs 6 until every single check is removed.
Mega Pinsir requires dedicated hazard removal, team mates that can deal with threats such as Skarmory, Talonflame, Hippowdown, Tyranitar and Rotom-W (I know Pinsir can potentially beat it with EQ before mega evolving, but it's easier said than done) and, most importantly, you need to be aware that it can't provide any meaningful defensive synergy.
Because of these flaws, I think Mega Pinsir should be dropped to A+ rank.
For one, it's an extremely mono-dimensional pokemon, in fact I'd go as far as saying it's the most predictable pokemon in the tier, with a grand total of one viable set with little room for creativity (Feint over Quick Attack and Close Combat over Earthquake are the only reasonable, if sub-optimal, alternatives).
Everyone knows what Pinsir is going to do and therefore they prepare for it. If they don't pack one of its very few dedicated counters such as Skarmory then they're going to pack something that can stop its sweep like Talonflame, Focus Sash Alakazam or Scarf Tyranitar. It's very similar to Moxie Salamence in back in BW: very few safe switch-ins, but in practice there are many viable ways to stop it.
The second major flaw is its overall frailness. It's almost impossible to switch Pinsir in more than once per match because of its extreme weakness to entry hazards (both before and after mega evolving), its defensive type is one of the worst in the game and its bulk is nothing to write home about. Simply put Pinsir can't provide any form of defensive synergy to a team, unlike Mega Lucario who still had a ton of resistances and could switch in far more safely despite its mediocre bulk (also, M-Lucario could just switch out with little consequence thanks to its 4x SR resistance). In other words against most teams you'll be playing 5 vs 6 until every single check is removed.
Mega Pinsir requires dedicated hazard removal, team mates that can deal with threats such as Skarmory, Talonflame, Hippowdown, Tyranitar and Rotom-W (I know Pinsir can potentially beat it with EQ before mega evolving, but it's easier said than done) and, most importantly, you need to be aware that it can't provide any meaningful defensive synergy.
Because of these flaws, I think Mega Pinsir should be dropped to A+ rank.
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Thats the whole damn point though. Some pokemon are not very good in OU, and that's why the C and D rankings exist in the first place.
Mega Pinsir is fucking retarded; get rid of SR and any problematic Pokemon and he sweeps teams for free. He's closer to being banned than being A+ rank. He's too easy to use to be anything lower than S rank.
That's just the thing though; it requires support to succeed, with its flaws compounding it's full effectiveness. A Mega Pinsir at half health will probably be put to KO range before it has any chance of sweeping, and there are simply Pokemon that can stop it in it's tracks completely.
I think support is only a problem if you have to go out of your way to help it, Mega Pinsir requires defog (on practically every team) and something like Tyranitar or Heatran (both in the top 10 usage).
That's pretty much all the support it needs to succeed, you're not going out of your way to support it and it cleans up in the late game stupidly well, even if SR is on the field (it doesn't use any sort of recoil moves). All it needs is on SD boost to sweep through teams:
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 283-333 (87.8 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 233-275 (76.6 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I could list more calcs but you get the point, the fact that these are two of the biggest things that can switch into it and they're barely safe from his carnage. Obviously more physically defensive spreads work but they can still be 2HKO'd by them:
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 198-233 (51.5 - 60.6%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 169-200 (55.5 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
There's not much support that goes into this guy that you wouldn't do normally and I don't see that as a flaw when it can sweep almost without worry.
That's pretty much all the support it needs to succeed, you're not going out of your way to support it and it cleans up in the late game stupidly well, even if SR is on the field (it doesn't use any sort of recoil moves). All it needs is on SD boost to sweep through teams:
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 283-333 (87.8 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 233-275 (76.6 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I could list more calcs but you get the point, the fact that these are two of the biggest things that can switch into it and they're barely safe from his carnage. Obviously more physically defensive spreads work but they can still be 2HKO'd by them:
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 198-233 (51.5 - 60.6%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 169-200 (55.5 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
There's not much support that goes into this guy that you wouldn't do normally and I don't see that as a flaw when it can sweep almost without worry.
The fact that the S rank pokemon are weak to Stealth Rock are exploited by Bisharp (21st in th ladder, 9th in the higher ladder) to switch into Defogt and set up in your team.
This causes that the higher leader, in the majority of them, has the combo Stealth Rock + Defog, which at first glance it's non-sensical. If MCharizard, Taonflame, MPinsir, and in a lesser way Thundurus, Dragonite, etc. have not been populated the higher ladder much, the combo of SR`+ Defog won't appear often in a high rank team.
This causes that the higher leader, in the majority of them, has the combo Stealth Rock + Defog, which at first glance it's non-sensical. If MCharizard, Taonflame, MPinsir, and in a lesser way Thundurus, Dragonite, etc. have not been populated the higher ladder much, the combo of SR`+ Defog won't appear often in a high rank team.
Every pokemon requires support to succeed. If a pokemon can win games with zero support then it doesn't belong in S-rank, it belongs in Ubers.
Saying that "you need to do X before you can use pokemon Y" doesn't mean pokemon Y can't be S-rank, specially if X is very easy to do. And in Mega-Pinsir's case, its checks are so little that it's very easy to suddenly send that thing in after killing what is probably the opponent's only check and then sweeping everything left. Also I don't think rocks are that much of a problem, considering that regular Pinsir only takes 25% from rocks. It can often switch in on rocks and start sweeping without even trying to remove them. It only needs rocks to come back. Megazard X has a lot more problem with rocks imo (since nowadays it's almost impossible to get to turn 4 without rocks on both sides), and I don't see anyone saying we should remove it from S-rank.
The lower rankings don't exist for the sake of ranking shitty Pokemon that don't work in the OU metagame. The lower rankings are for Pokemon that CAN work in the OU metagame because they have a specific niche that makes them useful enough on some teams. However, Pokemon like Rotom-C, apart from the fact that it doesn't really give a damn about Rotom-W, will almost NEVER be considered on a serious OU team because there's so many other things out there that can do what Rotom-C does without having to resort to using it. Sure, its Grass/Electric typing is cool and all, but that doesn't make it more viable.
A good example of a lower ranked Pokemon that was pretty bad overall in the OU meta but had a VERY specific niche that made it worthy on some teams, was Golurk during BW. If any of you played OU back in BW, you all know how incredibly dangerous Terrakion was and how very little wanted to switch into it, even when Landorus-T came around. Golurk was not only a near hard counter to every Terrakion set, but it could also setup Stealth Rock and was a decent spinblocker that had a really useful typing. However, Golurk was considered D rank on the viability ranking thread last generation because although it was able to be a full stop to one of the most dangerous Pokemon in the OU metagame and could actually be a decent team supporter, it was something you would consider as a last resort, which is why you'd rank it so low. That's why we don't just rank bad Pokemon for the sake of ranking them, there's always a solid reasoning behind it and they need to have a solid enough niche that they COULD be potentially considered on a team.
If there's a Pokemon that's outclassed in litterally every role imaginable and would never be used on a serious OU team, there's no point in ranking it. It needs to have some kind of notable niche to be ranked.
I think a lot of people are still working under the Gen IV/V mindset that SR is a given in most matches, when in Gen VI it's far more likely that SR/hazards are down for most of the match due to the ubiquity of Defog/Rapid Spin. It's far more likely for M-Pinsir to get a Swords Dance off than for him to come in and take 50% from SR (since, yeah, he'll be coming in as regular Pinsir first, and he probably won't be switching out once he's gone Mega.)
I didn't say we should be ranking outright horrible pokemon, in fact, I have said multiple times while we should be ranking more than just the very best mons, we shouldn't be going so far down to things like Raichu in OU. However, the D rank does exist, and it is nearly empty, so I see no reason not to utilize it, and Rotom-C fits there nicely. It's not as completely outclassed as everyone would make it seem, as it does have some unique traits that no other OU or UU grass type can claim, like being able to run a trickscarf set, and having a decently strong pivoting move (lol u-turn on celebi does not count.)
Seriously though, why so much focus on total removal of pokemon like salamence and Rotom-C, when non mega Mawile and weezing are still ranked? Surely Salamence and Rotom-C are at least as viable as regular mawile and Weezing.
Remove mawile too, see if I care. However, Jukain made some convincing arguments to get Weezing ranked... Checking mega mawile and azumarill via type plus having access to Will-o-wisp, as well as being a fantastic physical wall... I think that was the general overview. But please show me some calcs of Rotom-C being so much more effective than Rotom-W and show how their aren't better pokemon to fill the roles, specificially against "Excadrill and opposing rotom-W".
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
Just a note for future reference: Dedicating a teamslot and a turn to keeping hazards off of the field and eliminating its counters and checks does not a /free/ sweep make.
That completely vague "get rid of problem pokes and voila!" blanket statement argues next to nothing about its justification in S.
I would like to state that Weezing has completely walled my teams (plural) on numerous occasions. As long as special attackers are out of the way, he's extremely reliable. His special movepool is great, though his lack of reliable recovery really hurts him. Pain Split can be difficult to get around, though. He's all around very difficult to take down thanks to the buff that Poison received, especially with wish support (*nudge* Blissey + Weezing *wink*).
what team slot are you dedicating that you would do any different than most teams you make? defog happens to be an incredibly common move, so it's not like you're doing something extreme to keep them off with all the defog users out there.
and everything needs some support, mega pinsir needs a lot less of it. people should already know what pokemon he wants off the field and a lot of them don't double over (you're not going to see zapdos and rotom-w on the same team). he's nothing lower than S rank with the ease of effort he provides in the sweeping category as it's usually just 2 things, SR and another pokemon and that other pokemon is easily dispacthed by something, latios for example has amazing synergy with mega pinsir being able to take on almost every pokemon that mega pinsir has trouble with AND being able to remove SR
that's not going out of the way at all. charizard wants some pokemon gone before it sweeps, aegislash does too, everything needs support and mega pinsir just happens to require very little of it, even with his 4x weakness to SR
Rotosect
Banned deucer.
Can we please stop actng like SR is the only reason Mega Pinsir's S rank placement is questionable? I made it clear in my last post it's not just that.
The question here is "how much support is too much support for S rank?".
Aegislash and Charizard are unpredictable, have actual bulk and much better defensive types. Thundurus-I may be frail, but his combination of offensive presence and Prankster support make it a pain in the ass for every kind of team. Mega Pinsir meanwhile is a one-time shot lategame sweeper with a single viable moveset that provides almost no defensive synergy to a team. To me it's clear it is not on par with the other S rank mons.
The question here is "how much support is too much support for S rank?".
Aegislash and Charizard are unpredictable, have actual bulk and much better defensive types. Thundurus-I may be frail, but his combination of offensive presence and Prankster support make it a pain in the ass for every kind of team. Mega Pinsir meanwhile is a one-time shot lategame sweeper with a single viable moveset that provides almost no defensive synergy to a team. To me it's clear it is not on par with the other S rank mons.
Alright everyone, I want to bring up a new topic, Quagsire!
Quagsire: C ----> B-
Quagsire was an unfortunate case in BW2, with powerful threats like Breloom cleaning the metagame Quagsire was pushed aside to RU. However, This Gen allowed Quagsire to shine. Quagsire walls many threats such as:
Quagsire was an unfortunate case in BW2, with powerful threats like Breloom cleaning the metagame Quagsire was pushed aside to RU. However, This Gen allowed Quagsire to shine. Quagsire walls many threats such as:
As you can see, Quagsire serves as a counter to many theats, and is not easily taken down. It's amazing ability unaware allows it to do this, making it the ULTIMATE set up sweeper counter. However, it does have its fair share of flaws, most notably it's Special Defence, but you could say the same for Blissey and it's terrible defence. Overall, I believe Quagsire should defenitly be B- or higher.
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And Pinsir can 2hko the entire meta @ + 2 exept Skarmory, that alone is reason enough to keep him in S Rank, there is just 1 save counter to it, even if u know what its going to do, chances u will get ur ass swept are still very high. Just a few days ago I got my Zapdos ohkoed (and the rest of the team afterwards) by + 2 Pinsir after nothing but SR dmg and Zapdos resists Return. That thing is just crazy powerful and hardly needs any support. Usually it wont switch in more than once and it takes "only" 25% from SR in its base form so it doesnt even need SR gone that badly and the only other support that it needs is Skarm gone. Honestly defensive synergy and unpredictability are nice to have but Pinsir doesnt need them to be a frightening monster.
/edit oops your right ofc my mistake...
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Actually Zapdos only has a 2x resistance, just like Skarmory does. Still, Mega Pinsir is one of the most devastating win conditions I've seen, and it's not like it has to boost in order to clobber stuff either. It's so damn strong that Zapdos is seeing the usage it does now simply because Thundurus-I cannot switch in on Mega Pinsir.
But Mega Pinsir is THE one-time shot lategame sweeper.
Every sweeper has a list of pokemon who can check it and stop its sweep even after it has set up. The thing is that this list is very small for Mega Pinsir, since its power is just huge. It only needs a few pokemon removed and something to deal with rocks, and the sweep is guaranteed.
Nitpicking here, but out of your list Mega Gyarados and Mega Heracross are not countered by Quagsire. Mold Breaker ignores Unaware so Quagsire will not be stopping a Mega Gyarados that's already DD'd up and there's nothing Quagsire can do to keep itself from getting OHKO'd by a Bullet Seed from Mega Heracross. Even Pin Missile and Close Combat are able to 2HKO.Alright everyone, I want to bring up a new topic, Quagsire!
Quagsire: C ----> B-
Quagsire was an unfortunate case in BW2, with powerful threats like Breloom cleaning the metagame Quagsire was pushed aside to RU. However, This Gen allowed Quagsire to shine. Quagsire walls many threats such as:
As you can see, Quagsire serves as a counter to many theats, and is not easily taken down. It's amazing ability unaware allows it to do this, making it the ULTIMATE set up sweeper counter. However, it does have its fair share of flaws, most notably it's Special Defence, but you could say the same for Blissey and it's terrible defence. Overall, I believe Quagsire should defenitly be B- or higher.
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TCTphantom
formerly MX42
#buried
While his bulk is nothing to write home about 65/125/90 is definitely NOT frail for an offensive mon especially one with strong priority and a trolly speed tier who also happens to hit harder than Scarf Rayquaza for gods sake. It has so much power behind it and its bulk is no where near that bad. You mention Zards specifically as having bulk whilst pinsir does not even though they have around the same bulk Zard Y has 78/78/115 bulk while Zard X has 78/111/85 bulk and he is used as a tank oftentimes in high level play. If Mega Pinsir is frail then so are the Megazards (hint: they aren't).
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I would like to make a change.
Azelf: C- ---> B
I would first like to base my change on the description of the rankings. I apologize in advance for the long post :)
B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.
I won't pretend like Azlef has flaws; Let's review them. 75/70/70 defenses won't be walling too many people (especially with that psychic typing), and it's speed and attack stats, while certainly nice at 125/125 attacks and 115 speed, it isn't the top of the meta. It's psychic typing gives it a STAB that is resisted by many OU Pokes such as Aegislash. It can't hit steels neutrally, which is a big con with Ferrothron and Skarmory running around. It's typing leaves it weak to Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch. However, while I doubt it can sweep a majority of the metagame, it isn't useless. After a Nasty Plot, you usually can 2HKO max defense Eviolite Blissey with Psyshock. It has great coverage moves in Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Fire Blast, Signal Beam, Energy Ball, Dazzling Gleam, and Thunderbolt, and Hidden Power in addition to it's various psychic type STAB moves.
Many common OU threats not limited to Aegislash Shield (Fire Blast), (Mega) Scizor (Fire Blast), Skarmory (Fire Blast), (Mega) Alakazam (Shadow Ball), Mega Charizard X (Psychic), Mega Charizard Y (Thunderbolt), (Mega) Pinsir (Fire Blast), Azumarill, (Thunderbolt) Thundurus I (Psyshock), Talonflame (Thunderbolt), Gyarados (Thunderbolt), and (Mega) Venusaur (Psyshock) are OHKOd by a Timid +2 special attack from Azelf. These don't even incorporate items, so you can hold things like Focus Sash. Honorable mentions to the list are Mega Gyarados (50% to OHKO with Thunderbolt), Chansey (47.8% with psyshock minimum, assuming max defense, Eviolite, etc.), and Blissey (guaranteed 2HKO with Psyshock). Energy Ball even gets rid of Unaware Quagsire for you. I haven't even mentioned all the hidden powers it can run, such as Ice vs Garchomp and Dragonite and fighting vs Tyranitar. Of course, Azelf will not be able to walk on top of all of these Pokemon, due to things like Prankster Thunder Wave from Thundurus and priority Brave Bird from Talonflame. I am just illustrating Azelf's power to OHKO premier offensive and defensive Pokemon. Not as common, but certainly possible ways to boost, are Charge Beam and Power-Up Punch.
Ironically, despite Azelf's great's sweeping potential, I think it serves better as a lead. Moves like Fire Blast (and others) let you shred lead Pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Klefki (if swag play doesn't get to you first). Stealth Rock is another great reason to use Azelf, bolstered by that great speed. Taunt and Magic Coat let you stop other hazard setters. I think here is good time to review Azelf's great physical moves, which have great utility. The coveted Knock Off is always awesome, U-turn gives more momentum, Zen Headbutt for flinching stab, Explosion (hehehe: useful to at least deal some damage once your utility's up) and great coverage with the elemental punches and Acrobatics. Don't worry, Azelf has more support than just Taunt, Magic Coat, and Stealth Rock. It gets Thunder Wave, Toxic, Trick, Trick Room (not as useful because of Azelf's high speed, but oh well), Torment, Dual Screens, all weather except Hail, and Imprison. The sheer number of these amazing attacks and support moves are amazing. Even better, it is so underestimated (proven by the fact that is a C ranking), you can achieve great success. Don't underestimate this little pixie, or it could cost you the game, set, and match.
Wait, don't leave just yet, I forgot this.
C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.
Perhaps it has problems or is outclassed in nasty plot sweeping, but I do definitely not think it does as a lead. With a focus sash, as well as having one of the fasted taunts around, it should consistently set up rocks and hopefully do something else as well. Like Exploding or using Fire Blast on expecting Ferrothorns, etc. As for being "completely eclipsed", I don't think that is true. The only Pokemon that know Stealth Rock and Taunt and are faster are Mega Aerodactyl and Aerodactyl. Because Mega Aerodactyl is a bit of a waste of a mega slot, I believe the only logical comparison is between Azelf and Aerodactyl.
Aerodactyl may be faster, but here is something extremely worth mentioning: 252+ Speed Azelf outspends 252 Speed Aerodactyl by 2 points. Anyway: In exchange for having five less HP and special defense as well as a bit lower speed, Azelf has 20 More attack, 5 more defense, and 65 more Special attack. The defense isn't too important, but listen to this: 252 Azelf has more attack then 252+ Aerodactyl. Azelf can actually run mixed attacking sets, unlike Aerodactyl, and hits harder from both sides. It has a generally better ability in Levitate, while Aerodactyl's best in that department is Double Edge + Rock Head (no Head Smash for it). Aerodactyl's best boosting option is Hone Claws, while Azelf gets Nasty Plot (and Power-Up Punch and Charge Beam). Aerodactyl's best STAB options are the inaccurate Stone Edge, the fairly weak Rock Slide, and the pitifully weak Aerial Ace, while Azelf gets Psychic, Psyshock, and Zen Headbutt. Aerodactyl has decent support that Azelf doesn't in Whirlwind and Tailwind, but it lacks much of the options that Azelf has (such as Thunder
Wave), and it's poor defenses make it an inadequate user of the former in my opinion. Any comments, just reply, and feel free to snip this post.
Also forgot:
The reason I didn't mention or even check is Pokemon were faster, knew taunt, and knew an entry hazard that wasn't Stealth Rock is because of a poll I posted on an RMT. All entry hazards were options, and people had to pick which was best. Out of 20 votes, 18 were cast for Stealth Rock, and 2 were cast for Sticky Web. Spikes and Toxic Spikes each had zero votes. Also, upon voicing the question in the Pokemon Showdown OU chat room, three people responded to the same question, all of them choosing Stealth Rock. In case you are interested, the only Sticky Web-Taunters are Kricketune and Smeargle. The former is terrible, the latter usually uses moves like Spore, and both are far slower than Azelf. Greninja is faster and has spikes, toxic spikes, and taunt, but it has better things to do than taunting, like attacking, and I have never seen a Taunt Greninja. I think that's finally all.
Azelf: C- ---> B
I would first like to base my change on the description of the rankings. I apologize in advance for the long post :)
B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.
I won't pretend like Azlef has flaws; Let's review them. 75/70/70 defenses won't be walling too many people (especially with that psychic typing), and it's speed and attack stats, while certainly nice at 125/125 attacks and 115 speed, it isn't the top of the meta. It's psychic typing gives it a STAB that is resisted by many OU Pokes such as Aegislash. It can't hit steels neutrally, which is a big con with Ferrothron and Skarmory running around. It's typing leaves it weak to Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch. However, while I doubt it can sweep a majority of the metagame, it isn't useless. After a Nasty Plot, you usually can 2HKO max defense Eviolite Blissey with Psyshock. It has great coverage moves in Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Fire Blast, Signal Beam, Energy Ball, Dazzling Gleam, and Thunderbolt, and Hidden Power in addition to it's various psychic type STAB moves.
Many common OU threats not limited to Aegislash Shield (Fire Blast), (Mega) Scizor (Fire Blast), Skarmory (Fire Blast), (Mega) Alakazam (Shadow Ball), Mega Charizard X (Psychic), Mega Charizard Y (Thunderbolt), (Mega) Pinsir (Fire Blast), Azumarill, (Thunderbolt) Thundurus I (Psyshock), Talonflame (Thunderbolt), Gyarados (Thunderbolt), and (Mega) Venusaur (Psyshock) are OHKOd by a Timid +2 special attack from Azelf. These don't even incorporate items, so you can hold things like Focus Sash. Honorable mentions to the list are Mega Gyarados (50% to OHKO with Thunderbolt), Chansey (47.8% with psyshock minimum, assuming max defense, Eviolite, etc.), and Blissey (guaranteed 2HKO with Psyshock). Energy Ball even gets rid of Unaware Quagsire for you. I haven't even mentioned all the hidden powers it can run, such as Ice vs Garchomp and Dragonite and fighting vs Tyranitar. Of course, Azelf will not be able to walk on top of all of these Pokemon, due to things like Prankster Thunder Wave from Thundurus and priority Brave Bird from Talonflame. I am just illustrating Azelf's power to OHKO premier offensive and defensive Pokemon. Not as common, but certainly possible ways to boost, are Charge Beam and Power-Up Punch.
Ironically, despite Azelf's great's sweeping potential, I think it serves better as a lead. Moves like Fire Blast (and others) let you shred lead Pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Klefki (if swag play doesn't get to you first). Stealth Rock is another great reason to use Azelf, bolstered by that great speed. Taunt and Magic Coat let you stop other hazard setters. I think here is good time to review Azelf's great physical moves, which have great utility. The coveted Knock Off is always awesome, U-turn gives more momentum, Zen Headbutt for flinching stab, Explosion (hehehe: useful to at least deal some damage once your utility's up) and great coverage with the elemental punches and Acrobatics. Don't worry, Azelf has more support than just Taunt, Magic Coat, and Stealth Rock. It gets Thunder Wave, Toxic, Trick, Trick Room (not as useful because of Azelf's high speed, but oh well), Torment, Dual Screens, all weather except Hail, and Imprison. The sheer number of these amazing attacks and support moves are amazing. Even better, it is so underestimated (proven by the fact that is a C ranking), you can achieve great success. Don't underestimate this little pixie, or it could cost you the game, set, and match.
Wait, don't leave just yet, I forgot this.
C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.
Perhaps it has problems or is outclassed in nasty plot sweeping, but I do definitely not think it does as a lead. With a focus sash, as well as having one of the fasted taunts around, it should consistently set up rocks and hopefully do something else as well. Like Exploding or using Fire Blast on expecting Ferrothorns, etc. As for being "completely eclipsed", I don't think that is true. The only Pokemon that know Stealth Rock and Taunt and are faster are Mega Aerodactyl and Aerodactyl. Because Mega Aerodactyl is a bit of a waste of a mega slot, I believe the only logical comparison is between Azelf and Aerodactyl.
Aerodactyl may be faster, but here is something extremely worth mentioning: 252+ Speed Azelf outspends 252 Speed Aerodactyl by 2 points. Anyway: In exchange for having five less HP and special defense as well as a bit lower speed, Azelf has 20 More attack, 5 more defense, and 65 more Special attack. The defense isn't too important, but listen to this: 252 Azelf has more attack then 252+ Aerodactyl. Azelf can actually run mixed attacking sets, unlike Aerodactyl, and hits harder from both sides. It has a generally better ability in Levitate, while Aerodactyl's best in that department is Double Edge + Rock Head (no Head Smash for it). Aerodactyl's best boosting option is Hone Claws, while Azelf gets Nasty Plot (and Power-Up Punch and Charge Beam). Aerodactyl's best STAB options are the inaccurate Stone Edge, the fairly weak Rock Slide, and the pitifully weak Aerial Ace, while Azelf gets Psychic, Psyshock, and Zen Headbutt. Aerodactyl has decent support that Azelf doesn't in Whirlwind and Tailwind, but it lacks much of the options that Azelf has (such as Thunder
Wave), and it's poor defenses make it an inadequate user of the former in my opinion. Any comments, just reply, and feel free to snip this post.
Also forgot:
The reason I didn't mention or even check is Pokemon were faster, knew taunt, and knew an entry hazard that wasn't Stealth Rock is because of a poll I posted on an RMT. All entry hazards were options, and people had to pick which was best. Out of 20 votes, 18 were cast for Stealth Rock, and 2 were cast for Sticky Web. Spikes and Toxic Spikes each had zero votes. Also, upon voicing the question in the Pokemon Showdown OU chat room, three people responded to the same question, all of them choosing Stealth Rock. In case you are interested, the only Sticky Web-Taunters are Kricketune and Smeargle. The former is terrible, the latter usually uses moves like Spore, and both are far slower than Azelf. Greninja is faster and has spikes, toxic spikes, and taunt, but it has better things to do than taunting, like attacking, and I have never seen a Taunt Greninja. I think that's finally all.
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since hawlucha got banned from uu it is kind of forced to be ranked here.
c+ rank is pretty good for it. it literally has only two counters if it gets a swords dance up (physically defensive zapdos and aegislash) and can tear whole teams apart if he does boost. however unlike uu there is much more priority. talonflame 1hko's, pinsir very nearly 1hko's with quick attack, mamoswine 2hko's with ice shard (although hawlucha 1hko's mamo with high jump kick even if unboosted, making mamo a very shaky check).
It's also kind of weak unboosted and is pretty frail making boosting safely hard to do.
c+ rank is pretty good for it. it literally has only two counters if it gets a swords dance up (physically defensive zapdos and aegislash) and can tear whole teams apart if he does boost. however unlike uu there is much more priority. talonflame 1hko's, pinsir very nearly 1hko's with quick attack, mamoswine 2hko's with ice shard (although hawlucha 1hko's mamo with high jump kick even if unboosted, making mamo a very shaky check).
It's also kind of weak unboosted and is pretty frail making boosting safely hard to do.
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