Data Candles of Known Brightness: OU edition

[Antar]

As part of the decision to raise the cutoff for the stats used for determining the UU banlist from 1500 to 1760, I promised that in the future, decisions of this nature would be influenced by a set of metrics I called "candles of known brightness:"

basically a series of indicators we can look at to objectively assess at which points gimmicks and non-competitive teams "fall away." In Little Cup, an example would be the use of Leftovers, Sitrus Berry and Assault Vest, which never have any competitive use in the metagame. These will be things that are completely unambiguous. Donphan being used when there are better options? Not a candle. Donphan carrying Giga Impact?** Yes.

The idea is basically to identify things in the usage stats that have absolutely no place in the metagame, that is, moves, abilities and possibly Pokemon that have zero competitive use, not even as gimmicks. Note that in order for a Pokemon to whole-hog classify as a candle, it must be out-classed in each and every way by another Pokemon. It can't just be "X is a better spinner than Y," it has to be "X runs every move that Y can run, has better typing and better stats all around."

Effective candles will be things that appear fairly frequently among newer/less competitive users but not at all at the upper echelons. So, like, Spoink isn't a good scandal, since no one at any level of play uses Spoink.

I listed some Little Cup examples above, but I'm not personally familiar enough with the OU metagame to know what to use as OU "candles." Here are my initial thoughts. I'd love some feedback.

Note that if one person says, "X has no competitive use" and another replies, "actually, X is useful in this particular niche," as long as that reply isn't out-and-out wrong, the discussion on that metric will be considered closed in favor of that metric not being a good candle.

So here's what I've got to start with:

• Hyper Beam on ANY Pokemon that's not Normal-type with access to Adaptability or that doesn't have access to Refrigerate or Pixilate (note that while I can count the number of Porygon-Z's with Adaptability and the number of Porygon-Z's with Hyper Beam, I can't easily actually count the number of Adaptability Porygon-Z's with Hyper Beam)
• Giga Impact on ANY Pokemon
• Item that's not a mega stone on Charizard
• Item that's not Ampharosite on Ampharos
• Item that's not Manetricite on Manetric
• Item that's not Pinsirite on Pinsir
• Item that's not Banettite on Banette
• Pikachu
• Blast Burn
• Frenzy Plant
• Flash Fire on Ninetales
• Neutral nature
• Quick Claw
• Focus Band
• Synchronize Espeon
• Spike Cannon Cloyster
  
• Confusing berries
• No item (excpet Pokemon that can run Acrobatics)
• Shell Bell (except Aron)
• Non-eviolite chansey
• Doubles-only moves and abilities (Healer, Telepathy, Heal Pulse, Helping Hand...)
• Detect
• Roar on Skarmory
• Eviolite Slowbro
• Dream Eater
• Limber Ditto
• Ditto with fewer than 248 HP EVs
• Quick Powder on Ditto

 

[Tressed]

Might as well add Mawile and Banette to the useless without Mega Stone category. Mawile has nothing worth picking up that Bisharp couldn't do, besides Baton Pass, which isn't even that good. Banette is entirely outdone by Spiritomb, Golurk, and Aegislash from an attacking point, while Gengar and Cofagrigus do support much better. Pinsir probably qualifies, too, since it really doesn't have anything to boast over, say, Scizor.

 

[skies]

• Pinsir or Mawile with any other item than Pinsirite and Mawilite respectively.

 

[Rotosect]

Note that in order for a Pokemon to whole-hog classify as a candle, it must be out-classed in each and every way by another Pokemon. It can't just be "X is a better spinner than Y," it has to be "X runs every move that Y can run, has better typing and better stats all around."

How strict does this definition need to be? A common case is Sylveon vs Florges. In OU Sylveon is better than Florges in any conceivable way, but she does have better speed and a different movepool.

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

I'd certainly say stoneless Pinsir, Mawile, Banette, if we're doing stoneless Zard, Ampharos, and Manectric.

To nip the "Sylveon utterly outclasses Florges" posts in the bud, Florges can use Grass coverage. Which might not be what you're looking for most of the time, but it gives her an indisputable edge if you really, really dislike Swampert.

(hah, double-ninja'd, but still)

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

I'd also add any pokemon that has Assault Vest and status moves (barring Klutz as a gimmick), any non-Trick Choiced pokemon with status-boosting moves, and any pokemon with Acrobatics without a disposable item/lack of item.

 

[skies]

• Jolly Talonflame

This irks me that it is even used.

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

• Jolly Talonflame

This irks me that it is even used.

Can be used to counter Adamant Talonflame though (note: I personally wouldn't do this, but still.)

This REALLY shouldn't devolve into "I don't like this, thus it's worthless". I mean, it will, but it shouldn't. Let's try to avoid it as long as possible, else move it to Victory Road.

 

[Redolent]

• Jolly Talonflame

This irks me that it is even used.

It outspeeds rival Talonflame and Thundurus-I. I always run Jolly.

 

[Salt]

Hydro Cannon, Blast Burn, and Frenzy Plant (and Roar of Time, I've seen Smeargle with it before) to go along with Hyper Beam/Giga Impact.

Speaking of Smeargle, maybe any Smeargle with an offensive move should count, unless it's something that has a significant supportive effect like Rapid Spin.

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

Hydro Cannon, Blast Burn, and Frenzy Plant (and Roar of Time, I've seen Smeargle with it before) to go along with Hyper Beam/Giga Impact.

Speaking of Smeargle, maybe any Smeargle with an offensive move should count, unless it's something that has a significant supportive effect like Rapid Spin.

Before it's mentioned, Rock Wrecker does have a niche like Adaptability Porygon-Z: Sturdy Custappers doing one last hurrah, as I've seen with Crustle.

A good niche? Enh. But if we include Adaptability Z, then yeah, it fits.

 

[skies]

Smeargle with Boomburst honestly isn't horrible on SS Sets as it gives you something to use in case of Taunt. Here's just one example:
+2 252 SpA Smeargle Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 213-252 (71 - 84%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Rotosect]

Priority moves (besides Quick Attack, as it's outclassed by Extremespeed) also have a use on Smeargle if it's running Focus Sash+Endeavor.
Why not just Extremespeed? Because 1. you might need to hit ghosts and 2. you might need Super-effective coverage against opponents with Leftovers.
Never mind, ghosts are immune to Endeavor anyway.

 

[Hidious]

Swagger (just kidding)

A few: Slaking, delibird, farferch'd, regigigas, water/fire/grass pledge, detect, snowball, brightpowder, focus band, muscle band, and fury cutter

 

[Aragorn the King]

Would Air Slash Charizard count? Or Competitive Gothitelle? Surf Mega Blastoise? Telepathy anything?

EDIT: Hidious while not superb, Slaking has a niche, and can also be run, albeit as a gimmick, very well with Cofagrigus. Fury Cutter has a niche on Scizor, Regigigas is worse than Slaking, but can be used well. The rest is pretty good/bad though, and I'd add in Brightpowder, and all of the berries that cause confusion.

EDIT2: Expulso Aron and Magnemite are somewhat gimmicky, but are decent and not outclassed. AfroThunderRule I think so.

 

[Expulso]

Any first-evolution Pokemon that's not Murkrow or Misdreavus. (maybe others, please tell me)

N.B. This implies that it can evolve further: I'm not saying Thundurus is terrible.

 

[AfroThunderRule]

Would something like non-Drizzle Politoed fall under this?

 

[Hidious]

Life orb shedinja

 

[Ketsuban]

Any first-evolution Pokemon that's not Murkrow or Misdreavus. (maybe others, please tell me)

Riolu? It got a writeup for Gen V OU.

 

[Ninja Charizard]

Hydro Cannon, Blast Burn, and Frenzy Plant (and Roar of Time, I've seen Smeargle with it before) to go along with Hyper Beam/Giga Impact.

Speaking of Smeargle, maybe any Smeargle with an offensive move should count, unless it's something that has a significant supportive effect like Rapid Spin.

Also Smeargle with any stat boosting move and no baton pass in the set.

 

[Expulso]

Riolu? It got a writeup for Gen V OU.

...With Prankster and its access to Copycat and Roar, Riolu can take on a niche as a priority phazer, something that no other Pokemon in the entire game can emulate...

Copycat no longer calls Roar, however, so that's rather useless.

 

[Salt]

Another one, anything that isn't either LV 100 or LV 1 (for FEAR).

Also, Rotosect and Chesnaught, fair points on Smeargle, though there's still a fine line between using STAB Boomburst to catch things off guard and stupid useless shit like Flamethrower or whatever. In this case, there should be a list of offensive moves somewhere that wouldn't count as a candle for Smeargle that have certain utility, which pretty much only extends to what's already been mentioned.

 

[Rechi]

Torrent Greninja and using Ninjask over Scolipede ever.

 

[Rotosect]

Fury Cutter has a niche on Scizor

Fury Cutter's power: 40 -> 80 -> 160. Factoring Technician it's 60 -> 80 -> 160
Bug Bite, on the other hand is 90 -> 90 -> 90 with a Technician boost.
So unless you can use a move resisted by 7 types three times on a row on a pokemon that isn't exactly fast I don't see how Fury Cutter isn't completely outclassed by Bug Bite.

 

[Ninja Charizard]

Flame Body Talonflame.