CAP 18 CAP18 - Part 4 - Primary Ability Discussion

[Korski]

Alright folks, with our Threats List finalized, we are now set to move on to our Primary Ability Discussion. In this thread we will be assessing various abilities and discussing their pros and cons as they relate to CAP18 and our stated goals for the project. At the conclusion of this discussion, there will be a community poll to decide which ability is best-suited to fulfill the concept goals and support our threats list. Our Ability Leader is PttP. He will be leading the discussion and composing a final slate of options to move on to the poll based off of arguments made here, so be sure to pay close attention to his posts and feedback, and be sure to direct your arguments towards him and his questions.

Some general rules for this discussion:

• Custom abilities are banned. No exceptions. Posts suggesting custom abilities will be deleted.
• There are ability banlists for the different stages of ability discussion. Posts suggesting banned abilities will be deleted.
• Flavor abilities do not have any place in this thread. Do not bring up flavor reasoning. Posts that rely on flavor reasoning will be deleted.

The following abilities are banned from this discussion:

Air Lock
Aura Break
Bad Dreams
Color Change
Dark Aura
Defeatist
Fairy Aura
Forecast
Fur Coat
Huge Power
Illusion
Imposter
Moody
Multitype
Parental Bond
Protean
Pure Power
Shadow Tag
Slow Start
Stance Change
Teravolt
Truant
Turboblaze
Victory Star
Wonder Guard
Zen Mode​

Be careful not to discuss any of these abilities. If you want to learn why they're banned from discussion, you can check out the Policy Review threads that created this list here and here.

This thread will be open for discussion once PttP has posted his opening remarks and questions.

--------------------

CAP18 so far:

Leadership Team:

DetroitLolcat - Topic Leader
jas61292 - Typing Leader
PttP - Ability Leader
srk1214 - Stats Leader
ginganinja - Movepool Leader

Concept: Major Third

General Description: A Pokemon that forms an effective offensive or defensive core with two lesser-used OU Pokemon.

Justification: Cores have always been an integral part of the metagame, whether you're running Talonflame/Staraptor to brute force everything, Slowbro/Amoonguss/Heatran for Regenerator-Leftovers stalling, or a whole team of Dragons + Magnezone. We've previously explored what it takes to make a successful partnership in CAP11 (Voodoom), but the metagame (and the simulator!) has changed dramatically since Voodoom's creation. I would also like to up the ante a little bit: Instead of just one, can we now take TWO Pokemon and find their missing piece? Whether we opt to build on an established two-Pokemon partnership or choose two previously unrelated Pokemon and put them together, I think that we can certainly find a Voodoom for a more offensive time.

Questions to Be Answered:

• How do effective cores in the current metagame differ fundamentally from the cores of previous metagames, if at all?
• Is synergy as important (relative to power) in the current metagame as it previously has been? (That is, has power creep rendered synergy unnecessary?)
• What differences are there between tailoring a Pokemon to two others and tailoring it to one? What else must be considered besides weaknesses and resistances?
• How does the addition of a Pokemon to a core change what other Pokemon can be effectively run alongside the core?
• Does Team Preview make running cores more difficult?
• Is it possible to create a core uncounterable by a single Pokemon? (For example, Celebi/Heatran/Jellicent was a very effective BW core that got slaughtered by Tyranitar. Can a core force opponents to counter it with another core?)
• Tagging onto the above, what is required to "counter-core" a core? What combination of offensive and defensive characteristics among "counter-core" members achieves this?

Pokemon CAP18 should threaten:

It's important that, first and foremost, we threaten the Pokemon and strategies that our core has no answer to. In general, the degree to which a Pokemon threatens Latias and Lucario should be the degree to which CAP18 threatens that Pokemon.

Ghost-type Pokemon: Aegislash, Gengar
Fairy-type Pokemon: Clefable, Mawile predominantly. Togekiss, Sylveon and Azumarill to somewhat lesser extents.
Some Fire-type Pokemon: Mega Charizard Y, Heatran, Talonflame to a much lesser extent.
Bug-type Pokemon: Scizor, Forretress, Volcarona.
Ground-type Pokemon*: Landorus-Therian, Hippowdon, Excadrill.

When I say "to a lesser extent", I mean that CAP 18 should be a threatening presence to this Pokemon, but it should not be an ultra-reliable counter. CAP18 should perform well against every Pokemon on this list, but that doesn't mean CAP18 needs to unconditionally switch into and force out these Pokemon. It should likely be able to do one or the other, but countering all of these Pokemon is neither feasible nor recommended.

CAP18 should be able to handle, either by switching in or 1v1, the Pokemon that defeat at least one of our core members that the other one cannot switch into. For example, Mega Charizard X is a Pokemon that defeats Lucario 1v1 that Latias can't switch into. If Multiscale is active, so is Dragonite. Gyarados, before it Mega Evolves, fits this bill.

*With a weakness to Ground, this will be a difficult task. We should threaten these Pokemon as well as we can, but we should not expect to counter Ground-types, but rather defeat them 1v1.

Pokemon CAP18 should be threatened by:

We should be okay with CAP 18 losing to Pokemon that the rest of our core handles well. For example, Latias is a tremendous answer to Rotom-W, and CAP18 is weak to Electric and does not have a STAB that can hit Rotom-W even neutrally. Rotom-W isn't particularly bothered by Fire- and Water-type support options, so making Rotom-W anything other than a threat to CAP18 is fitting a square peg into a round hole. Keldeo is a similar example, although Keldeo is so commonly paired with Pursuit Aegislash (the bane of this core) that it's not safe to let Keldeo counter this CAP.

Bulky Waters: Rotom-W, Keldeo to a much smaller extent.
Bulky Dragons: Latias, Latios, Goodra.
Walls with minimal offensive presence: Chansey, Blissey.

Pokemon not on either of our threatlists should be overly specifically threatening or threatened by CAP 18. Just because a Pokemon is not in the second list doesn't mean it is our prerogative to beat it. The same goes with Pokemon not in the first list: we shouldn't be expected to lose to every Pokemon that we don't threaten.

Typing: Fire/Water

 

[PttP]

So what I gathered from the Threats Discussion thread and IRC discussion is that everyone is in agreement that this CAP must be an answer for Aegislash. However, the means of accomplishing this varied a little, with one group highly in favor of taking a less aggressive means of doing so, and the other group wanting to beat Aegislash through high offensive pressure. I only have one question to ask because the combinaton of our core and the typing we chose really restricts this entire stage to beating Aegislash.

Aegislash is by far the biggest threat to our core, so by what means should CAP18 beat it? Should CAP18's ability allow it to handle Aegislash in a more defensive manner by constantly being able to switch into its main move or should it discourage Aegislash's general presense through an offensive ability?

I know on IRC that Bulletproof has gotten a ton of traction, and Fire / Water was chosen in part because of the fact that voters had Bulletproof as a safety cushion against Aegislash. Another group of people wanted to threaten Aegislash through a variety of offensive ablities such as Drought and Contrary. One thing I want supporters of Bulletproof to be aware of is the fact that being immune to Shadow Ball does not make CAP18 a counter to Aegislash. Aegislash does have 150/150 attacking stats, a very viable Swords Dance set, and access to a decent STAB in Shadow Claw. Physical Aegislash is still a counter to this core, and Bulletproof will provide no defense against it. It is reasonable to assume that in a restricted 2 week metagame focused around a particular CAP, Aegislash users will adapt their sets and change from specially oriented sets to physically oriented sets just to beat our CAP. Of course, offensive abilities don't really help in this regard either since Fire / Water doesn't resist Ghost, but they do help in the sense that they provide much needed firepower.

If you wish to contact me on IRC, my name is dodrio.

 

[Karoshi]

From the discussion of what should threaten CAP18, I think some good choices for a primary ability are Bulletproof, Filter and Levitate. Bulletproof has already been discussed, so I won't go over it in great detail. It helps primarily with special Aegislash and Gengar, but doesn't help a whole lot against the vast majority of OU outside of rare coverage moves. That said it is still a solid choice for an ability. The last two abilities have a similar goal; surviving ground types. Filter would allow CAP18 to switch into ground types albeit reluctantly and threaten with STAB water. It also provides some resistance to rock and electric, both common attack types. The negative to this is that it would make CAP18 less dependent on the Latias/Lucario core on the defensive side, which could make it go against concept if not careful. Levitate on the other hand allows CAP18 to completely ignore ground type attacks as well as most entry hazards while not bolstering it's other resistances. The negatives to this ability in terms of concept is that it is less reliant on Latias's defog since two members of the core are immune to spikes and all three would be immune to toxic spikes. In addition, both abilities also share a weakness to any Mold Breaker the packs ground coverage.

 

[Expulso]

Some potentially interesting abilities include:

Bulletproof: Immune to Shadow Ball :o
Drought: more fire-power with a downside of
Levitate: Is immune to Ground-type attacks that would be SE
Regenerator: Regains health by switching out, lets it come back later in the match to re-check threats and not get worn down
Volt Absorb: see Levitate, also provides reliable recovery and screws Rotom-W

 

[Mektar]

Before we get into specifics, I'm pretty sure we should address PttP's question of what role the ability will play. My two cents is that the ability we choose should be offensive, as the chance we can successfully tank hits from powerful or priority STAB moves off of 150 base attacking stats without rendering the CAP completely broken is slim to none.

 

[The Avalanches]

I think Intimidate would be a good ability for this CAP. Intimidate would help neuter physical threats like Azumarill and Aegislash and make them much more manageable.

 

[Unitas]

Aegislash is by far the biggest threat to our core, so by what means should CAP18 beat it? Should CAP18's ability allow it to handle Aegislash in a more defensive manner by constantly being able to switch into its main move or should it discourage Aegislash's general presense through an offensive ability?

As good as it sounds to beat Aegislash through an offensive ability, I just don't think that could be plausible through the typing we've chosen. By not resisting Aegislash's main STAB (Shadow Ball/Shadow Claw), it really pushes us into a corner to either give it a defensive ability or massive amounts of bulk. It's going to be hard enough to switch around with this core due to Lucario's fragility and Aegislash can still do major damage to our core at this point. If we chose Drought for example, CAP18 would have to survive the hit on the switchin, and then the subsequent Shadow Sneak. This not only would require massive amounts of bulk, but also it could potentially leave CAP18 for fodder due to a low amount of HP. We need a defensive ability to ensure that Aegislash cannot run across this core. As of right now it can, and with an offensive ability Aegi will continue to destroy us.

 

[turd bunny]

how about Rattled? when it is hit by a ghost-, bug- or dark-type move its speed is raised by one stage? it can switch in to a shadow ball
or bug-type move then get a speed boost then retaliate with a STAB. But bulletproof works for a more defensive anti-aegislash ability as said previously

 

[Imanalt]

Since a lot of the focus of this discussion is inevitably going to revolve around aegislash, and i've seen some questionable things siad about it already in this thread, i just want to address which aegislash sets are really viable and relevant at reasonably high levels of play (there are three): 1) mixed pivot with kings shield, shadow ball, and two of pursuit/sacred sword/iron head/shadow sneak, 2) Substitute/kings shield/toxic/shadow ball, 3) Offensive sd (3 attacks + swords dance). The first two sets usually run leftovers, the third runs life orb.

What does this say for how aegislash interacts with the core? All three sets are threatening to the core, but all in different ways. The first two sets can use the fact that they are in general very difficult to switch into to come in, cripple something with move of choice, and then switch back out, using bulk + leftovers to do this at little cost to it, as it can sponge any attack from lucario and latias fairly well other than the rare eq from luc. The third set's interaction is very different, as it much more will look to only once switch in (later in the game) and take the set up opportunity. A sweeper that is giving a free set up opportunity is inherently easier to deal with for the rest of a team than a pokemon which can switch in and deal large damage reliably, and as such to me the first two sets are much more threatening. What does this mean for our ability? It says that we dont need to worry about whether aegislash will move towards using physical set rather than special sets if we were to have bulletproof, as all we need is to run a check to sd aegislash elsewhere on the team (much like we need to for several other threats, like excadrill). If we don't have bulletproof however, it is MUCH harder to just "run a check" to its special sets, as they will get a lot of chances to come in and hit, meaning we really need a counter to those sets, not a check. As such, bulletproof is our best option.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

I would like to recommend Static or Flame Body. When originally thinking of this, I tried to use them to counter Aegislash. One interesting thing to note is that no matter what the Aegislash set is being used, it cannot OHKO Lucario without using Sacred Sword or by getting a crit, not counting boosts and hazards, but with Latias the latter of the two shouldn't be a problem. In return, if Lucario has Earthquake, it guaranteed to be able to OHKO Aegislash, assuming its in blade form, and if Lucario is at +2, it can 2HKO shield form with a combination of Earthquake and Bullet Punch. This shows that Aegislash will need to use Sacred Sword to get rid of it. Since Sacred Sword is a contact move if CAP18 is brought in it could have the potential to cripple Aegislash for the rest of the match. Making it a perfect situational counter and a pretty good overall counter for Aegislash. And now that I think about it more, with the right stats it could also work pretty well with some of the physical threats to the core like Azumarill and Mawile.

 

[FMD]

--Defensive Abilities--
Bulletproof and Levitate are the most obvious choices for rather obvious reason and I'm pretty sure everybody has seen enough posts justifying it in the last few weeks.
I had considered Filter for a while and I like the idea. It's a very nice defensive ability, especially for a Pokemon without any double weaknesses. This would give it a fairly decent rise in effective bulkiness because super effective moves won't hurt as badly. This would provide many more options to switch in with much less fear and let it stay in against faster attackers that rely on coverage to sweep.
Storm Drain, Water Absorb and Dry Skin allow an immunity to Water which would greatly reduce Azumarill's impact, forcing it to rely solely on coverage, essentially giving it a free turn after switching in as well as a possible stat boost or heal.
Lightningrod, Volt Absorb and Motor Drive work much like the above, but instead of shutting down Azumarill it negates one of our most serious weaknesses.
Regenerator would allow it to switch in and out repeatedly and more than make up for any Stealth Rock damage, something that would greatly help the core. The main issue with this would be making sure not to be too similar to Slowbro.
Sap Sipper would make very little sense flavor-wise, but from a competitive view (which is how we should view this aspect of the project), it would give it an immunity to Grass which would stop Mega Venusaur while also netting an Attack boost. The main issue with this is that both members of the core resist Grass already.
Magic Bounce would let it switch in on various status moves such as Toxic and Thunder Wave as well as hazards, which could certainly come in handy. Also this would give us a chance to see what a bulky Magic Bounce Pokemon could accomplish in Gen VI since the nearest thing we have to one is Xatu.
Flame Body could let us cripple physical attackers, but Earthquake and Stone Edge don't make contact.

--Offensive Abilities--
Mold Breaker would allow this CAP to hit a few specific Pokemon more effectively. Mamoswine, Mega Venusaur, Clefable, Heatran, Espeon and Dragonite all depend on their abilities for defense one way or another, whether to take hits or switch in on certain moves.
I think Adaptability would be WAAAAAY too overpowered with Fire/Water STAB coverage.
Sheer Force could accomplish a lot when given access to Fire's and Water's many medium-high attacks with secondary effects and allow it to hit particularly hard with even moderately powerful offensive stats.
Serene Grace makes use of the same moves as the above Sheer Force, but instead increases the effect chances of the moves, allowing us to more consistently debilitate the enemy.
Tinted Lens could reduce the number of Pokemon that could effectively wall our STAB, mainly being Dragon types.
Infiltrator could help us punch holes into Pokemon relying on Substitute or Reflect/Light Screen, such as Gliscor.
Analytic could let us punch huge holes through the opponent consistently, assuming we end up being a slow, bulky attacker.
Compound Eyes and No Guard would allow us to use moves like Will-o-Wisp, Fire Blast and Hydro Pump without any real chance of a miss.

--Miscellaneous Abilities--
Drought and Drizzle have gotten a bit of attention and I do think that these would be rather effective at raising our damage output, buuuut it would also drop the damage of our other STAB.
Swift Swim and Chlorophyll could also raise our effectiveness at the cost of one STAB, but it would be much less reliable.
Rattled would be a very nice ability for this core, assuming we have the bulk to reliably use it.
Contrary could allow us to combat things such as King's Shield (assuming physical offense) and Swagplay (assuming special offense) while also giving us the possibility of adding a VERY exploitable and powerful move in the form of Overheat.
Shield Dust would allow us to be immune to flinching completely, not take a stat drop from moves like Shadow Ball and (I have no idea if it works like this...) not take an Attack drop from King's Shield.

I feel like I should stop before I end up addressing every ability possible... :/

 

[CyberSe7en]

Of course, Levitate and Bulletproof are potential options, helping against non-Mold Breaker EQs and Shadow Ball Aegi / Gengar / Sylveon. Still, each of this leaves us open against the other set of threats we need to cover, so I'm not sure if we could find a more versatile ability, and then cover the remainder with stats later.

I can see a case for Intimidate, as it helps CAP 18 against some of the threats we want it to beat (incl. Physical Aegislash, Mawile, Azumarill, Scizor), while also helping against Ground types and non-STAB Earthquakes. It doesn't really help CAP 18 with Shadow Ball Aegislash, which we also have to consider, given that Aegislash is easily our #1 threat to beat.

Adaptability would be really strong with our Fire/Water typing, and while it would help CAP 18 scare Aegislash, as well as improve our stand-off with Azumarill and Ground types, we still have to safely switch in. On a similar note, Drought and Drizzle are also interesting options to consider here, although my preference here would be for Drought of the two, providing a stronger STAB against Aegislash, and improving our match-up against Azumarill (dat Aqua Jet).

Not sure if we want to open this can o' worms, but what about having Multiscale as CAP 18's primary ability? It'll allow CAP 18 to switch into Aegislash and setup or pressure it out, as well as help CAP 18 scare out our Earth-types to beat (Landorus-T, Hippowdon, Excadrill) with a Water STAB. It also encourages CAP 18 to rely on Lati@s to Defog any hazards prior to switching in. I'm just not sure if Multiscale as a primary ability would lend itself well to this particular core, as opposed to using CAP 18 with other 'mons.

---

I don't see much use on CAP 18 for abilities to reduce or absorb Fire, Water, or even Electric damage, such as Dry Skin, Water Absorb, Volt Absorb, Lightning Rod, Flash Fire, Motor Drive or Storm Drain since I don't see these abilities helping us beat the threats we want it to beat that we don't automatically handle by typing alone (incl. Aegislash first and foremost, as well as Landorus-Therian, Hippowdon, Excadrill, Gengar, and Clefable). Besides, we want CAP 18 to be threated Rotom-W and Latios/Latias, which IMO makes a case for leaving CAP 18 weak to Electric.

 

[Valzy]

Personally, I think that Contrary is the best option for an ability as it is the only offensive ability that specifically punishes Aegislash for attempting to change Formes and allows CAP 18 to easily KO Aegislash without posing a massive offensive threat to all Pokemon. This would allows us to create a Pokemon that is only defensively strong under most circumstances, but powerful enough against Aegislash to easily dispatch of it. Most other abilities either cannot handle both physical and special variations of Aegislash, or they require and/or create both high offensive and defensive power to check most variations of Aegislash, which would make CAP 18 too overpowered and useful outside of its core.

Edit: After doing some calculations, I've discovered that the minimum SpA needed to KO 252/4 Aegislash with max investment and a life orb is only 112 with Fire Blast and 87 with Overheat so CAP 18 doesn't need to have massive attacking power to destroy Aegislash.

 

[Empress]

Flame Body, Levitate, and Water Absorb appear to be among the most viable options for CAP 18. One of the threats to Lucario and Latias is Azumarill, and CAP 18 could use Water Absorb to block an Aqua Jet, or Flame Body to cripple Azumarill's Attack. Flame Body would also work against physical Aegislash. As for Levitate, CAP 18 is meant to be an answer to Fairy-types to an extent, and the combination of Fairy and Ground on offense is very potent. Levitate, plus CAP 18's natural Fairy resistance, eliminates the chance of opponents forming a Fairy and Ground core against CAP 18.

Another option that doesn't necessarily make sense flavor-wise, but hasn't been looked into yet, is Mummy. If CAP 18 had Mummy, it would severely cripple the attack power of its intended counters, such as Mega-Mawile, Azumarill, Scizor, and Mega-Charizard X. Still, if we were to do this, CAP 18 would have to be pretty bulky. Then again, its typing grants it some good resistances anyway, allowing plenty of switch-in opportunities. On the downside again, though, it does nothing against Stance Change, if I remember correctly. I sure wish it did though.

Another thing I thought of is Rough Skin/Iron Barbs. For me it seems that CAP 18 will be switching into many contact moves; this would give it another way to punish physical Aegislash.

 

[Psyco_Josho]

Since you mentioned Swords Dance, we could always give CAP Unaware. It could go alongside Bulletproof, and give CAP its own element of unpredictability. All versions of CAP could beat Aegislash with their Fire STAB, but not all versions of Aegislash will be able to beat CAP. This would make CAP able to select its own counters, and it would have to have different team support depending on which ability it has.

Outside of Aegislash, there are a few things that CAP should threaten, and many of them often use boosting moves. Clefable and Sylveon use Calm Mind. Togekiss uses Nasty Plot. An especially important mon, not even considering Aegislash, is Mega Mawile, which uses Swords Dance in over half of its sets. There is also Azumarill, which often uses Belly Drum. Talonflame sometimes uses Swords Dance. Scizor occasionally uses Swords Dance. Volcarona is a very notable Quiver Dance booster. Other things that it needs to threaten can occasionally use boosting moves, but I don't believe it will help CAP beyond what I've already mentioned. It would also make it harder to be countered by CM Keldeo.

I do notice that other mons like the Lati twins and the pink blobs also use CM, and they're supposed to beat CAP. But between out abilities and our stats, I suppose we can come up with something that'll make CAP fit into the mold we need!

I suppose that Levitate can be an option to give us an anwser to Ground-types... If we have other teammates as answers to Aegislash.

As for any abilities that give us immunities to Water- or Electric-type moves, no. Our CAP is supposed to be beat by certain Pokémon, not become a god of a Pokémon is that really so hard to understand?

I like the idea of Flame Body. A physical attacker could get some strong hits on you, but at the risk becoming a crippled physical attacker. But that sounds a bit sacrificial to me.

One thing that I think could be really great is Flash Fire. With some prediction, you could switch into a Fire-type move that threatens Lucario, and then become a very dangerous thing for Aegislash to switch into after zero turns of setup.

Regenerator sounds cool on paper, but remember that we're Stelth Rock weak.

 

[ilovekirby12]

Serene Grace seems intresting, a burn would deter all those physical attackers that plauge the metagame.

Levitate is the more obvious ability, allowing easier switch ins, adding an immunity, and immunity to spikes. Making it a much more efficient core.

 

[Nyktos]

Much as I'm loath to do so, I'll reluctantly have to support Bulletproof. This is by far the best way to actually beat the things we've decided to beat using the typing we have. While Bulletproof certainly doesn't automatically allow us to beat Aegislash, what it does do (combined with our Steel resistance) is stop us from needing to worry much about its special attacks. We can then focus on taking physical attacks through bulk, status, etc.

In fact, for better or for worse, Bulletproof (+ physical bulk) fits near-perfectly with our threatlist. Aegislash, Gengar, and Charizard-Y all commonly carry Shadow Ball and/or Focus Blast, which Bulletproof renders us immune to. The majority (though not all) of the other special attacks we need to take are things we resist: Fire, Fairy, or Steel attacks. On the other hand, several of the special attackers we want to lose to carry only neutral attacks. So Bulletproof is basically the only way to switch in on Aegislash's Shadow Ball while still preserving the rest of the threatlist.

It's hard to image any other ability choice fitting nearly as well with what we've decided on so far in typing and threats. Bulletproof is the way to go.

 

[Elite Lord Sigma]

I believe that Bulletproof and Regenerator are the best two options. I'm even going to go one step further and propose that CAP 18 should have access to both. My reasoning lies in the view that neither ability on its own is enough for CAP 18 to be protected against all threats. As Nyktos said, the former is a great stop to Aegislash, Charizard-Y, and Gengar's attacks, but it makes CAP 18 more easily worn down from hazards and other residual damage. The latter allows for CAP 18 to function better should Latias be unable to Defog, but Aegislash and other hard hitters will be somewhat more difficult to endure. Either way, the person using Lucario, Latias, and CAP 18 as their core would be able to select the ability best suited to deal with threats to the rest of the team.

 

[Admiral_Stalfos19]

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned No Guard at all. We can use No Guard to prevent worry for our attacks (Hydro Pump, Fire Blast, Will-o-Wisp and whatever other hopelessly inaccurate moves we decided to give it) from ever missing, but its main selling point is Inferno, which has decent power and a guarantee to burn anything it hits, but a laughable 50% accuracy. With a No Guard CAP18 switching into it, the only Pokemon that will WANT to switch in Inferno for Aegislash are Fire-types, which we counter most of with our Water STAB and x4 Fire resist, Pokemon that have already been statused (Gliscor's a prominent one at that), or special attackers, most of which Latias can wall like a champ. Only Mega Charizard X remains a problem for the core with No Guard CAP18, and he can be dealt with by other Pokemon.

...

Out of the abilities that have already been suggested, Serene Grace is the one I'd like to see most, as no physical attacker wants to switch in knowing they have a slightly-haxxed-coin-flip of being burned, and most of the mons we need CAP18 to threaten ARE in fact physical. Contrary allows even a physical CAP18 to fully threaten Aegislash as King's Shield will only help him out, and as such should be kept in mind in case one of us feels as though it should be mixed. Finally, Regenerator can be handy for practically nullifying Stealth Rock damage.

However, I'd still advocate for No Guard and Serene Grace as my two main choices for primary ability.

 

[Salt]

I don't like Regenerator, as it reduces our reliance on Latias' Defog support. The SR weakness is a good thing because we need it to encourage using CAP 18 in its intended core, not as some independent tank. Contrary also worries me because it would pretty much require CAP 18 to be a Physical attacker with contact moves to abuse King's Shield with, which is too restrictive at the current stage imo. Plus, Overheat's existence worries me for obvious reasons. Bulletproof makes the most sense and is the safest option against handling Aegislash because most run Shadow Ball and 3 Attacks + SD is more easily checked because of the lack of King's Shield.

EDIT: To address SubToxic Aegislash, which might be the most threatening set to this particular CAP, I'll suggest Poison Heal. Since that particular set usually runs Shadow Ball as its only attack, it should be fairly easier to deal with especially with Poison Heal's healing and the immunity to Poison damage. It doesn't almost entirely mitigate the hazard weakness like Regenerator does which still encourages Latias' support, and doesn't do much to help against Rotom-W, Latios, or Keldeo who will still threaten us with supereffective or otherwise powerful moves.

 

[Kappaten]

I really don't think Regenerator or Levitate are going to be the abilities we want for CAP18. Both abilities make CAP18 less reliant on the defog support from Latias, and would push us away from our original concept.

As far as the previously mentioned abilities, I like Bulletproof for a more defensive ability and the above No Guard for an offensive ability. Bulletproof means that CAP18 will have a much easier time switching in to threats like Gengar and Aegislash, and means that we don't have to focus on our Special Defense stat as much when deciding base stats later. I really like the sound of No Guard Inferno, and its presence would force switches into the mons that should threaten CAP18 (bulky dragons, bliss/chan, keldeo, etc.). Also every other reason Admiral_Stalfos19 mentioned.

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

Much as I'm loath to do so, I'll reluctantly have to support Bulletproof. This is by far the best way to actually beat the things we've decided to beat using the typing we have. While Bulletproof certainly doesn't automatically allow us to beat Aegislash, what it does do (combined with our Steel resistance) is stop us from needing to worry much about its special attacks. We can then focus on taking physical attacks through bulk, status, etc.

In fact, for better or for worse, Bulletproof (+ physical bulk) fits near-perfectly with our threatlist. Aegislash, Gengar, and Charizard-Y all commonly carry Shadow Ball and/or Focus Blast, which Bulletproof renders us immune to. The majority (though not all) of the other special attacks we need to take are things we resist: Fire, Fairy, or Steel attacks. On the other hand, several of the special attackers we want to lose to carry only neutral attacks. So Bulletproof is basically the only way to switch in on Aegislash's Shadow Ball while still preserving the rest of the threatlist.

It's hard to image any other ability choice fitting nearly as well with what we've decided on so far in typing and threats. Bulletproof is the way to go.

Precisely this, especially because a Fire/Water typing is bound to have at least some form of burn to bulwark its physical defense. Aegislash's physical moves sting like the devil at +2, but unlike the devil, they don't play well with fire.

Moreover, this ability may make us weak to Ground, but we already have a levitator on our team to deal with predicted EQs (barring Excadrill, which obviously wouldn't care about CAP-18's Levitate either). Latias can shore up switch-ins to Grounds far better than any mon, Levitate Cap-18 included, can deal with Aegislash.

I just wish there were more contact-making Special moves; manipulating King's Shield for Competitive boosts would've been so fun.

 

[Deck Knight]

In general I feel like Bulletproof is too extreme an answer for something like this, simply because it ceases making CAP18 a good member of a Latios / Lucario core (our objective) and starts making it one of the best Pokemon period. A Pokemon that counters Gengar, Zard Y, and most Fairies all at once? Sign me up, Scotty!

My preferences are for the following:

Unaware - This makes the many offensive boosting Dragons much, much less of a threat, in addition to Calm Minders and Clefable, which will have to deal with whatever offensive presence CAP 18 already has.

Defiant - This ability would allow us to keep pressing the attack button on Aegislash, even in the face of King's Shield, by directly negating its Attack dropping effect. It also turns Landorus-T's Intimidate into a net attack bonus. Additionally, it would boost the damage we could do with priority, something that helps us greatly with the like likes of Excadrill. Latias resists both of our STABs, so even at +2 from Defog, CAP18 is not a direct threat to it.

 

[Valzy]

In general I feel like Bulletproof is too extreme an answer for something like this, simply because it ceases making CAP18 a good member of a Latios / Lucario core (our objective) and starts making it one of the best Pokemon period. A Pokemon that counters Gengar, Zard Y, and most Fairies all at once? Sign me up, Scotty!

My preferences are for the following:

Unaware - This makes the many offensive boosting Dragons much, much less of a threat, in addition to Calm Minders and Clefable, which will have to deal with whatever offensive presence CAP 18 already has.

Defiant - This ability would allow us to keep pressing the attack button on Aegislash, even in the face of King's Shield, by directly negating its Attack dropping effect. It also turns Landorus-T's Intimidate into a net attack bonus. Additionally, it would boost the damage we could do with priority, something that helps us greatly with the like likes of Excadrill. Latias resists both of our STABs, so even at +2 from Defog, CAP18 is not a direct threat to it.

Bulletproof doesn't make it counter Aegislash or Gengar though. Aegislash can still hit hard with Shadow Claw, Rock Slide or Head Smash while Gengar can hit it with Thunderbolt.

 

[MudcrabDL]

I actually do like Regenerator as an ability; though I think CAP18 should be less Slowbro and more Meinshao. It doesn't necessarially reduce CAP's reliance on Latias, as with Stealth Rocks up, that pretty much neutralizes the recovery you can get; Regenerator would be brilliant for healing off low BP priority moves like Shadow Sneak, and to a lesser extent, Aqua Jet.

I notice on the threat list that our Fire/Water is expected to at least somewhat be able to deal with Azumarill, which is troublesome, but not impossible. Water Absorb or Storm Drain fit with our CAP elementally anyway, and get rid of a significant threat to the core. These abilities do help us against Rotom-W a little, but the CAP is still wide-open for a rogue Volt Switch, meaning it will still have to rely pretty significantly on Latias for that.

Similarly thematically fitting is Flame Body. That burn chance could be an absolute gamechanger, but at the same time, the CAP will get Will-o-Wisp, as it's on the required Fire-type moveset; it's also not really reliable enough for my liking.

Contrary is...hilarious. I'd love to make a better Malamar, but I don't think that's something that can just happen incidentally when we're trying to make a core, it'd facilitate CAP's usage in a far more gimmicky capacity, outside of the intended purpose. HOWEVER, if CAP18 was a physical attacker without particularly worthwhile Special Attack stats, Contrary could function in a far more subtle way than 'lol overheat spam', being a particularly threatening answer to King's Shield, and discouraging the switch-in of Lando-T. It'd also be an interesting, if gimmicky switch-in to Defog users, but as we're running this core on the assumption that Latias is keeping the field clear, that might hurt its intended purpose rather than help it.

Bulletproof is a safe option. It makes us specialized counters to several threats that we need to deal with. With the addition of supporting moves like Taunt, Encore or Torment, it could also force a lot of switches on different sets; taunt entirely shutting down SubToxic Aegislash, Encore hurting, well, all Aegislash sets, and Torment allowing a modicum of predictability for a lot of the attacking sets. All in all a very solid, if uninteresting choice.

Prankster could also be an option. Threats like Thundurus-I use this to great effect, while still maintaining offensive presence; this will seriously worry physical attackers if they have to deal with an 85% chance of being burned before they do anything. It will also make playing around Stance Change a lot more troublesome for an Aegislash player, as you can Sub up, taking the hit as they change to Sword Form, and either boost, sub again, or attack the next turn, putting the prediction aspect on the Aegis player rather than on yourself.

Serene Grace could work beautifully with Scald, which is pretty much this typing's signature move, turning it into a better Sacred Fire and seriously worrying anything that hopes to use its attack stat. It might even be TOO good, really, but it's undeniably a good option.