"This move also hits opposing Pokémon that are in the air. Those Pokémon are knocked down to the ground. "
It doesn't specify what "being in the air" means, but it most likely includes also flying types and balloon Pokémon.
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Ladder Balanced Hackmons
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It doesn't specify what "being in the air" means, but it most likely includes also flying types and balloon Pokémon.
Pikachuun
the entire waruda machine
Bypasses Levitate and other Ground-type immunities besides WG. So pretty much that
Kit Kasai
Love colored magic
Once again, I fail to be surprised by your ignorance.
Can you actually read first?
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Thousand waves obviously traps. Whether it does passive damage or not we don't know. It could just be mean look with damage (although most likely partial trapping). Think about context. There is no move that prevents just running and not switching. It doesn't make sense as a mechanic either because you could easily just switch then run in a wild battle, and it'd be useless in a trainer battle.
And I'm pretty sure flying Pokemon count as being "in the air"
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Edit: Same wording as infestation.
The target is infested and attacked for four to five turns. The target can't flee during this time.
Kinda Obvious, but this just made me realize what a difference this will make to Pure Hackmons as well.
"The user attacks with a wave that crawls along the ground. Those hit can't flee from battle."
Mean Look: "The user affixes the foe with a dark, arresting look. The target becomes unable to flee."
Infestation: "The target is infested and attacked for four to five turns. The target can't flee during this time."
EDIT: ninja'd by Kit Kasai
Woah woah woah.
3edgy5me.
Yeah, I suppose I should have looked on Serebii first before saying that, as Smogon lists the effect of the move but not the actual text. So that's quite a bit better.
Anything similar to Thousand Arrows that I can reference? Smack Down does the 'falls to the ground' thing, but that's obvious.
Kit Kasai
Love colored magic
Hey I was just mirroring your tone :P
AWailOfATail
viva la darmz
Don't think Thousand Waves does residual damage. It doesn't say "for four to five turns". Other moves like Infestation (Fire Spin, Whirlpool, Magma Storm) say the same thing.
Well, I do remember seeing people theory-banning Mega-Mawile from standard.
Also, I'm just in between classes right now. But a quick calc shows that Shaymin outbulks Leafeon by 1% damage. So yeah, unless you really need that +10 attack power, Landmin will outclass if Thousand Arrows dominates the meta for awhile/forever.
Oh, and 252+ Atk Refrigerate Kyurem-B Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Shaymin: 165-195 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. Not too shabby, just low enough to PP stall. And there's probably better options out there still, like Ferrothorn.
Hey can we not theorygasm over the new moves yet and discuss the meta kthx
Top teams have 8 pokemon with Poison Heal, Sturdy Sheddy, and MG Sheddy to pretend to be the Sturdy Sheddy. Battles rage for centuries. Everything is gelid and miserable. Any attempts to break serve result in immediate disqualification and possible jail time.
I beg to differ top teams have unique sets (btw you cant have 6 ph mons cause of the new clause) because people know all the cookie cutter sets. If you hate the meta so much then stop playing it
Just so that people understand my point.......
I don't see anything stopping Kyurem-B with Bolt Strike, ExtremeSpeed and Thousand Arrows except Fur Coat Pokemons. There is no room for Fur Coat mons in the current meta.
All teams need to prepare for Boomburst, Mega Gengar, various PH sweepers, Contrary and Proteans. Mega Gengar requires an Yveltal or Prankster with something that can stop it. Boomburst requires a dedicated counter too.
Contrary is usually taken care of by Imposter or Prankster. There is no room for Fur Coat since all BH teams need a bouncer to be consistent.
Poison Heal Sweeping + Thousand Waves doesn't even give you a chance to scout thanks to its trapping effect, Thousand Arrows makes everyone less reliant on flyers i.e Thousand Arrows buffs Thousand Waves.
I can go on more about Protean + Thousand Waves and many more such as Thousand Wave's anti-imposter properties but I think you all get the picture.
EDIT: This is NOT theorymonning, i'm only posting this because people misunderstand my post prior to based Arcticblast's post.
Additionally, Thousand Waves may work like Infestation, if that's the case, it won't be 100% anti-Imposter depending on the set.
I don't see anything stopping Kyurem-B with Bolt Strike, ExtremeSpeed and Thousand Arrows except Fur Coat Pokemons. There is no room for Fur Coat mons in the current meta.
All teams need to prepare for Boomburst, Mega Gengar, various PH sweepers, Contrary and Proteans. Mega Gengar requires an Yveltal or Prankster with something that can stop it. Boomburst requires a dedicated counter too.
Contrary is usually taken care of by Imposter or Prankster. There is no room for Fur Coat since all BH teams need a bouncer to be consistent.
Poison Heal Sweeping + Thousand Waves doesn't even give you a chance to scout thanks to its trapping effect, Thousand Arrows makes everyone less reliant on flyers i.e Thousand Arrows buffs Thousand Waves.
I can go on more about Protean + Thousand Waves and many more such as Thousand Wave's anti-imposter properties but I think you all get the picture.
EDIT: This is NOT theorymonning, i'm only posting this because people misunderstand my post prior to based Arcticblast's post.
Additionally, Thousand Waves may work like Infestation, if that's the case, it won't be 100% anti-Imposter depending on the set.
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Eh, I have to reply to this.
I'm sure there's plenty more that can do it without Fur Coat. And Sheddy if they're running Fake Out on top of those three moves.
Also, Imposter annoys most of the above except Gengar anyway. Who may become less common if Ground-coverage goes everywhere.
Also, 4MSS. Running both 1k Arrows and 1k Waves means you have two moveslots left for coverage and recovery. Or STAB if you're not a Ground type. Unboosted BP 90 moves don't hit much in BH hard, especially on neutral hits, as is, so I don't see, say, Slaking sweeping with 1k Arrowaves anytime soon.
And honestly, it'll really be no worse than getting caught unexpectedly by a trapping move as is. And we also don't know the duration of the trap. Plus, since it has zero immunities, can kill Sheddy, and prevents passive recovery, I imagine Infestation will still be the trapping move of choice.
252+ Atk Refrigerate Kyurem-B Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Illuminate Cresselia: 160-189 (36 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
I'm sure there's plenty more that can do it without Fur Coat. And Sheddy if they're running Fake Out on top of those three moves.
Boomburst and Gengar can dealt with in variety of methods. AV + Regen walls the bulk of them, Trick and Koff murder 90% of Gengars, and anything faster or that can eat a hit and strike back hard scares the majority of them. Contrary is stopped by Unaware, Prankster Topsy/Heart Swap, or just by preventing them from gaining momentum. PH and Protean are too varied to provide dedicated counters as is and your response will really be dependent on their set. Like, Aerodactyl-Mega can send PH Charizard-Y and PH Regigas home crying, but would likely have difficulty with either version of Garchomp.
Also, Imposter annoys most of the above except Gengar anyway. Who may become less common if Ground-coverage goes everywhere.
Not exactly true. Hazards are easy to remove thanks to Defog and status is stopped with PH, which are the two major things you want bounce to deal with. Also, as far as I've seen, Bounce seems to be much less common this generation than the last. Lately when I've played, I've also noticed that most hazard setters have either been Mold Breaker or something offensive that can force out common bouncers.
Volturn is still a thing. And so are Ghost types. Sheddy and Giratina are still some of the most common in the tier and neither of them remotely care about getting nailed with something like Mean Look right now. Also, Lugia is still extremely bulky and won't really care if it gets hit by 1k Arrows since it can sponge hits anyway. 1k Arrows hurts stuff that's weak to Ground more than anything else.
Also, 4MSS. Running both 1k Arrows and 1k Waves means you have two moveslots left for coverage and recovery. Or STAB if you're not a Ground type. Unboosted BP 90 moves don't hit much in BH hard, especially on neutral hits, as is, so I don't see, say, Slaking sweeping with 1k Arrowaves anytime soon.
And honestly, it'll really be no worse than getting caught unexpectedly by a trapping move as is. And we also don't know the duration of the trap. Plus, since it has zero immunities, can kill Sheddy, and prevents passive recovery, I imagine Infestation will still be the trapping move of choice.
Too long imo
Unaware is not reliable in the current metagame, Poison Heal sweepers are too common for it to be effective.
Protean Pokemon require scouting to counter them reliably. Imposter is the most reliable method of scouting, Thousand Waves makes it too much of a risk to use Imposter as your means of scouting. I also highly doubt Infestation would be used over Thousand Waves. Thousand Waves not only hits pretty hard, traps and provides necessary coverage, it also allows you to use another move to hit Shedinja such as Sacred Fire.
Unaware Cresselia is too shaky in the current metagame. The majority of sweepers use Poison Heal and sleep or Sacred Fire. I honestly feel it cannot fit in a consistent team.
Knock Off only checks Mega Gengar, if you are implying that Regenvest beats Mega Gengar, remember that it often uses sleep. Trick can only be used with Prankster, Pranksters can be put to sleep not to mention I said Prankster is one of the best ways to defeat Mega Gengar. Also, Prankster should not be used as the main way to defeat Mega Gengar. Generally, Prankster is used to counter sweepers/wallbreakers that you cannot stop, using Prankster as your only means to counter Mega Gengar is very risky.
Unaware is not reliable in the current metagame, Poison Heal sweepers are too common for it to be effective.
If Thousand Waves works like Mean Look, it would be too risky to even scout with Imposter. Imposter is also a shaky way of dealing with them.
I have never seen a truly consistent team without a Magic Bounce Pokemon in the BH metagame. The fact that you won't be able to use Magic Bounce means these 2 moves will add variance and centralisation in the metagame.
Ghost types are generally exploitable. One notable example is Mega Garchomp, who destroys Giratina with its Dragon STAB. Shedinja has also been unreliable lately (courtesy of PH sweepers with Magma Storm or Sacred Fire.) Lugia is another Pokemon that can't be used consistently in the current metagame. Additionally, it's common for Pokemon that use ground type attacks to carry something for flying types such as Lugia and Yveltal.
Protean Pokemon require scouting to counter them reliably. Imposter is the most reliable method of scouting, Thousand Waves makes it too much of a risk to use Imposter as your means of scouting. I also highly doubt Infestation would be used over Thousand Waves. Thousand Waves not only hits pretty hard, traps and provides necessary coverage, it also allows you to use another move to hit Shedinja such as Sacred Fire.
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Ah, so they implemented it. Well, that'll make things better at least.
I don't disagree. We won't know until the move is obtained for real.
Adrian: Since I don't feel like quote spamming, I'll just address the important bits (Protean aside, which I pretty much agree with since I already said the sets vary so much you have to scout them). First, the above Cress set was actually Illuminate just to illustrate no abilities are required. It's even written into the calc. Cress could run PH, MB, Harvest, Unaware, Regenerator, or what have you and it'll still be a check to Kyu-Bs lacking Crunch or the like.
Anyway, you might not be able to leverage Cress consistently, Unaware or otherwise, but there's a reason it tends to sneak onto most of my teams. I get great usage out of it. While it's not as amazing of a wall as it was last gen, it still works wonderfully on the right teams. Lugia too, who's often bulky enough to take boosted hits and either retaliate, cripple, or phaze the attacker. And both enough have the bulk to check oh so horrifying Mega-Gengar if they adjust their set to compensate. Heck, now I'm tempted to put Knock Off on a Cress just to laugh at Gengar's tears.
Also, while AV Regen might be a bit susceptible to sleep (and let's be honest, you should have an answer to sleep anyway), many of them run Nuzzle. And a paralyzed Gengar is pretty much screwed, especially if it doesn't have cleric support.
And I don't see how PH insta-beats Unaware. Sleep? Unaware can run Safety Goggles or a Lum Berry. It can also run Simple Beam too. Though it is set dependent. Not all PH is offensive and not all PH sweepers are set-up.
Oh, and again, MB isn't necessary for consistency. My 6x PH team would have peaked the ladder easily if I didn't get too bogged down in school and work and had to stop. Also, of its three losses, two were hax and the third my opponent already knew my team while I didn't know theirs and they also admitted that wasn't quite fair.
But seriously, please, stop calling doom. I know offense is getting a couple of new toys to play with and that hurts stall in response, but considering fixing the Mold Breaker vs Unaware bug in Gen 5 didn't murder stall and turn the meta into a HO haven, X/Ytwo aren't dominating the current meta, and Kyu-B can be dealt with without specific, dedicated counters, I seriously doubt two new moves will break the meta so horribly that they'll be banned. Plus, if you can't find a way to leverage at least one of them for stall purposes, I'm going to be very disappointed.
Anyway, you might not be able to leverage Cress consistently, Unaware or otherwise, but there's a reason it tends to sneak onto most of my teams. I get great usage out of it. While it's not as amazing of a wall as it was last gen, it still works wonderfully on the right teams. Lugia too, who's often bulky enough to take boosted hits and either retaliate, cripple, or phaze the attacker. And both enough have the bulk to check oh so horrifying Mega-Gengar if they adjust their set to compensate. Heck, now I'm tempted to put Knock Off on a Cress just to laugh at Gengar's tears.
Also, while AV Regen might be a bit susceptible to sleep (and let's be honest, you should have an answer to sleep anyway), many of them run Nuzzle. And a paralyzed Gengar is pretty much screwed, especially if it doesn't have cleric support.
And I don't see how PH insta-beats Unaware. Sleep? Unaware can run Safety Goggles or a Lum Berry. It can also run Simple Beam too. Though it is set dependent. Not all PH is offensive and not all PH sweepers are set-up.
Oh, and again, MB isn't necessary for consistency. My 6x PH team would have peaked the ladder easily if I didn't get too bogged down in school and work and had to stop. Also, of its three losses, two were hax and the third my opponent already knew my team while I didn't know theirs and they also admitted that wasn't quite fair.
But seriously, please, stop calling doom. I know offense is getting a couple of new toys to play with and that hurts stall in response, but considering fixing the Mold Breaker vs Unaware bug in Gen 5 didn't murder stall and turn the meta into a HO haven, X/Ytwo aren't dominating the current meta, and Kyu-B can be dealt with without specific, dedicated counters, I seriously doubt two new moves will break the meta so horribly that they'll be banned. Plus, if you can't find a way to leverage at least one of them for stall purposes, I'm going to be very disappointed.
Peaking the ladder has nothing to do with this tbh. A team of 6 Mega Mewtwo-X is not consistent.
Nuzzle is only situational, nobody is going to switch Mega Gengar to a regenvest Pokemon. Dark Void easily beats Unaware, Lum Berry is highly circumstantial.
Not all PH mons are offensive, of course I know that but what does this have to do with anything? PH sweepers are the main threat here.
Nuzzle is only situational, nobody is going to switch Mega Gengar to a regenvest Pokemon. Dark Void easily beats Unaware, Lum Berry is highly circumstantial.
Not all PH mons are offensive, of course I know that but what does this have to do with anything? PH sweepers are the main threat here.
If kuyrem-b with the arrow move worries you so much use mega scizor.
It takes neutral (and resist e-speed) from all the listed moves here so far and has ton of physical bulk to shrug it off the other moves. And it's retaliation moves hurt quite a bit. And has nice u turn abuse with its stab.
252+ Atk Kyurem-B Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mega Scizor: 119-140 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Kyurem-B Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Scizor: 108-128 (31.3 - 37.2%) -- 83.4% chance to 3HKO
i mean fuck you can run adamant if you want to and still take the hits.
It takes neutral (and resist e-speed) from all the listed moves here so far and has ton of physical bulk to shrug it off the other moves. And it's retaliation moves hurt quite a bit. And has nice u turn abuse with its stab.
252+ Atk Kyurem-B Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mega Scizor: 119-140 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Kyurem-B Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Scizor: 108-128 (31.3 - 37.2%) -- 83.4% chance to 3HKO
i mean fuck you can run adamant if you want to and still take the hits.
Yeah, before I started using Levitran to wall fridge kyubs and pixilate xerneases, I used Adrian's FF Scizor-Mega, which could tank whatever attacks they threw at me and deal a lot of damage with STAB Gear Grind. Originally, when I first saw these two new moves, I had the same view as Adrian, but after thinking about it, I don't agree they should be banned.
Normally, Mega Scizor is used as an anti-boomburst counter, however, it cannot wall all of them ever since the creation of Choice Specs Refrigerate Kyurem-W with Boomburst and Choice Specs Pixilate Mega Gardevoir with Boomburst.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Kyurem Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Scizor: 176-207 (51.1 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I would still be using Mega Scizor if it was still reliable at doing its job. In fact, not even Aegislash can take a specs Boomburst from Kyurem-W. Only certain Regenvest mons and Levitran are able to wall it.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Kyurem Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Scizor: 176-207 (51.1 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I would still be using Mega Scizor if it was still reliable at doing its job. In fact, not even Aegislash can take a specs Boomburst from Kyurem-W. Only certain Regenvest mons and Levitran are able to wall it.