Venusaur QC (2/3)

[Mizuhime]

Overview
########

• The best Sun Sweeper in the tier.
• Grass- and Poison-typing give it great STABs and an immunity to powder moves.
• Also gives good defensive typing as it resists 5 common attacking types.
• 80 / 83 / 100 means that Venusaur is a bulky Pokemon that can still do damage.
• Access to Sleep Powder
• The many Fire-type Pokemon of the tier scare Venusaur.
• It's Mega Evolution isn't used much due to facing competition from many better Mega's, but Mega Venusaur is something that should be over looked.
  
• You can live and die by the 75% accuracy that is Sleep Powder.

Special Attacker
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Name: Special Attacker
Move 1: Sludge Bomb
Move 2: Giga Drain
Move 3: Sleep Powder
Move 4: Protect
Ability: Chlorophyll
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spe
Nature: Modest


Moves
========

• Sludge Bomb is Venusaur's most Powerful STAB, and allows you to hit Fairy-type Pokemon For super effective damage.
• Giga Drain is the secondary STAB on the set, giving Venusaur recovery while attacking.
• Sleep Powder gives it a supporting option for it's teammates and allows it to abuse the lack of sleep clause
• Protect allows Venusaur to protect from super effective damage while teammates deal with the problem.

Set Details
========

• The EV spread makes Venusaur to be the fastest Pokemon in the Metagame while sun is up, allowing it to outspeed the most common Choice Scarf users. It's also faster than common Pokemon like Heatran without sun.
• Thanks to chlorophyll, Venusaur doesn't need many speed EVs to be fast, so you can invest in HP to be a very bulky attacker.
• Modest nature paired with Life Orb gives Venusaur the power to deal major damage.

Usage Tips
========

• Pair Venusaur with Mega Charizard-Y, Sun should be up to ensure Venusaur's success.
• Not only does Venusaur apply a lot of pressure with it's STABs, but access to sleep powder means it can put Pokemon to sleep at will. It can use this option to support teammates.
• Venusaur's Grass-typing also allows Venusaur to be immune to powder moves. Venusaur can bully Amoonguss and all other Grass-types in the tier by switching into them at will and threatening them with Sludge Bomb.
• Venusaur should be used in the early game to apply a lot of pressure on the opposing teams and potentially set up something for a teammate in the later game.
• Sleep Powder paired with a Fake Out does very well vs Trick room

Team Options
========

• Venusaur should always be used in tandem with Mega Charizard-Y.
• Heatran is also a good partner for Venusaur, as it has the ability to switch into all Fire-type attacks, and removes Steel-type Pokemon.
• Pokemon that use Sunny Day can set up sun for a potential sweep for Venusaur.
• Pokemon with a powerful Ground-type STAB like Landorus-t also remove Steel-type Pokemon that would potentially be a problem for Venusaur.
• Venusaur and Mega Zard will struggle against Dragon-types that can avoid sleep, so Ice-type Pokemon that deal with them such as Mamoswine make for good partners.

Mega Venusaur
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Name: Mega Venusaur
Move1: Sludge Bomb
Move2: Giga Drain
Move3: Sleep Powder /Leech Seed
Move4: Protect / Synthesis
Ability: Chlorophyll
Item: Venusaurite
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 44 SpA / 80 SpD
Nature: Modest

Moves
========

• Sludge Bomb is Venusaur's most Powerful STAB, and allows you to hit Fairy-type Pokemon For super effective damage.
• Giga Drain is the secondary STAB on the set, giving Venusaur recovery while attacking.
• Sleep Powder gives it a supporting option for it's teammates and allows it to abuse the lack of sleep clause
• Protect allows Venusaur to protect from super effective damage while teammates deal with the problem.

Set Details
========

• The EV spread allows Mega Venusaur to live attacks such as Adamant Brave Bird from LO Talonflame and Psychic from LO Latios.
  
• Venusaur is naturally very bulky so it can afford to not run max HP EVs.
• Maximizing it's special attack allows Venusaur to hit as hard as possible.

Usage Tips
========

• Mega Venusaur is very bulky, has a great defensive ability and good defensive typing to pair with that ability. Don't be scared to let it take some hits because it can live them.
• Sleep Powder is a great asset to Mega Venusaur as it can put anything it wants to sleep and directly threaten Grass-type Pokemon who attempt to absorb the Sleep.
• Mega Venusaur can also be used to bully Grass-type Pokemon trying to put your teammates to sleep. Pokemon like Breloom and Amoonguss can't touch it.
• Mega Venusaur will create a lot of free turns for your teammates if you can use it correctly. Free subs for Pokemon like Heatran and Aegislash or a Dragon Dance for something like Gyarados.

Team Options
========

• Steel-type Pokemon such as Aegislash, and Heatran are able to set up on Mega Venusaur's weaknesses in Flying- and Psychic-types
• Fighting-type Pokemon such as Terrakion, Conkeldurr, and Keldeo are also good teammates for Venusaur as they can remove Steel-type Pokemon such as Heatran who Venusaur can't damage. Terrakion also has the ability to remove Mega Charizard-y from the field which directly threatens Mega Venusaur even with Thick Fat as it's ability.
• Mamoswine, and other Pokemon that can remove Dragon-types such as Latios and Latias are always welcomed.
• Rotom-w, and Landorus-t are good partners as they can deal with Pokemon that directly threaten Venusaur such as Talonflame and Heatran.

Other Options
========

• Earthquake and Growth are two interesting options for Venusaur to run. Earthquake allows it to hit Heatran for super effective damage, while growth gives you a +2 stat boost in sun.
  
• Wide Lens could be used to raise the accuracy of Sleep Powder.
• Hidden Power Fire can be used to hit Scizor, and Ferrothorn as well as other Steel-types. Ground can also be used to hit Heatran and is a better option than EQ in some cases.
  
• Substitute

Checks and Counters
========

**Offensive Typing Advantage**: Two of the most common Pokemon in the tier, Charizard-Y and Heatran, are both Fire-type and can use their powerful STAB to scare Venusaur.

** Defensive Typing Advantage**: Since Venusaur only runs it's two STAB moves, it has no way to hit Steel-type for any damage other than Giga Drain. It can put them to sleep but nothing will happen other than that.

** Speed Control**: Pokemon like Thundurus and Cresselia aren't going to take much from Venusaur, and they will be able to slow it down with Thunder Wave and Icy Wind respectively, making chlorophyll less of a factor in the battle.

**Opposing Weather**: Venusaur wants sun up at all times, if the weather war is lost Venusaur's success will be hindered.

**Trick Room**: Since Venusaur is usually on a team that is based around Blitzkreigh sun, but if it does get set up it's basically game over.

** Offensive Type Advantage **: Though Venusaur is usually going to be the fastest Pokemon on the field because of sun, Pokemon such as Talonflame have priority Brave Bird that will shut down Venusaur. Heatran is another pokemon that can be problematic for it, as both of it's STABs do nothing and Heatran will OHKO in return. Kyurem-b also has the ability to shut down Venusaur in both forms with the use of Sub + Ice beam

 

[youngjake93]

Mizu, I think you meant Chlorophyll user not sun sweeper. Almost every fire type has a better chance at sweeping in sun than Venusaur.

 

[Darkmalice]

Having used Mega Venasaur, including in the recent Minitour finals and semifinals, I can confidently say that it deserves a set of its own outside of OO. It's not a Pokemon you add to the team for the sake of it but rather to fill holes in the team. It is arguably the single best Pokemon against Water-types and rain teams, not even being weak to Ice Beam, and unlike Ferrothorn, it doesn't fear Will-O-Wisp from Rotom-W and Intimidate. It has super-effective STAB against Fairy-types that isn't hindered by Intimidate and Will-O-Wisp support whilst easily being able to switch into Syvleon's Spec Hyper Voice. The Fighting-type resist is handy. It make a great Grass-type to add to a FWG core. Sleep Powder also makes it a good TR check, and unlike other sleep inducers, it isn't weak to Chandelure thanks to Thick Fat.

Mega Venasaur
########
Name: Special Attacker
Move 1: Giga Drain
Move 2: Sludge Bomb
Move 3: Sleep Powder
Move 4: Protect
Ability: Chlorophyll
Item: Venasuarite
EVs: 180 HP / 252 SAtk / 76 Spe
Nature: Modest

The reason for keeping the 76 Spe EVs from the previous set is in case your opponent has the ever common Mega Zard - enjoy your opponent's sun, and should TR get set up when sunlight activates, Mega Evolve to remove the speed boost. But there should be an AC mention that less Speed is fine, and even a Quiet nature with 0 Speed IVs if using with Trick Room.

Also OO mention HP Ground. It works better on Mega Ven, as combined with Thick Fat and its bulk, it becomesa good check to Heatran. HP Ground is also helpful for most other Steel-types like Bisharp and Chandelure. Normal Venasuar can use it too, especially give that you mentioned EQ in OO, but it's riskier to take on the aforementioned Pokemon. It's still better than EQ - due to your SpA investment and spread reduction you'll be outdamaging most opponents with HP Ground, especially when Intimidated or used against Bisharp.

 

[kjata30]

I disagree that Mega-Venusaur needs its own set when the EV, nature, moves and (most of) its usage will remain the same. Venasaurite should either be slashed or OO.

 

[Stratos]

Mega and normal venu play VERY differently tho, so if mega is deemed worthy of a set, it should not be a slash

That being said, I'll talk with mizu when i get home about whether it gets a set

 

[Ash Borer]

why is giga drain the only grass attack Leaf Storm hits way harder its good

 

[Mizuhime]

For the point of the skeleton rush (this was done for that) the purpose was to put out the main set and slash anything else that May have been of a minor concern or needed to be mentioned. The fact remains that venusaurs main set is certainly not the mega. If you see a venusaur chances are the Charizard Is already occupying the mega slot on that team

 

[Mizuhime]

why is giga drain the only grass attack Leaf Storm hits way harder its good

Leaf storm may hit harder, but the -2 means you will have to switch out and waste the limited sun turns.

 

[Darkmalice]

For the point of the skeleton rush (this was done for that) the purpose was to put out the main set and slash anything else that May have been of a minor concern or needed to be mentioned. The fact remains that venusaurs main set is certainly not the mega. If you see a venusaur chances are the Charizard Is already occupying the mega slot on that team

The skeleton rush phase has passed. You're allowed to post multiple sets now.

 

[Stratos]

Mention ScarfDog specifically in set details for why 76

No mention of Dragons and opposing weather setters anywhere in the analysis? Dragons that can avoid sleep ruin venu+charizard with a combo of defense and offense. That's why Mamo deserves a special mention in TO, and they should go in c&c also. Toed/Ttar may not appreciate taking a giga or sleep but at least they slow venu down to be beatable.

TR is hard af to set up against blitzkrieg sun, especially with sleep support, but if you can get it up (fake out; goggle cress) it p much ruins venu

Basically flesh out checks/counters and it's good

 

[Ultimathunder]

I', not QC, but...

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 76 SAtk / 180 Spd
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Mega Venusaur definitely deserves its own set. Personally I find Sleep Powder on Mega Venu to be overrated, simply cause it doesnt have the infinite staying potential like it has in singles due to not having any sort of revcovery, so I feel leech seed is pretty much mandatory on all of its sets. I suppose you could run Sleep Powder over protect, but if I wouldn't usually do so.

Venusaur @ Coba Berry
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 64 Def / 252 SAtk / 192 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Protect

I also think this spread deserves a mention. Talonflame is a pretty big threat to sun teams, so having a lure for it is nice. This set always survives CB Talonflame Brave Bird, and KOs back with Sludge Bomb.

 

[Lolk]

Overview:

• Idk if this belongs somewhere else but Venusaur is good for sun teams because it beats Politoed, Ttar, and Abomasnow (with some prior damage) making it easy to keep sun on the field.

Usage Tips:

• Sleep Powder makes a great lead vs Trick Room.

Other Options:

• Because we are not doing a mega set for now, use more detail about the Mega set and what it would be used for (bulky af sleeper with offensive presence pretty much) until someone else does that set in the future.
• HP Fire to hit Scizor and Ferrothorn and other Steels not Heatran (its also Sun Boosted :O)
• Substitute
• Leech Seed

Checks & Counters:

• Talonbird
• Ass Vest stuff like Goodra beats Zard and Venusaur so it should be well prepared for.

QC 1/3

 

[Audiosurfer]

Mizuhime mega venusaur should probably have a set (in many ways i think it's better than the standard sun set since you can always keep it unmevolved but also mevolve when you wish to) so once you add one lemme know and ill check it

 

[Lolk]

>.>

 

[LightningLuxray]

I can take this over if Mizuhime doesn't feel like doing this, I've had a good amount of experience with both Chlorophyll and Mega sets.

 

[Mizuhime]

added mega dino

 

[Nollan]

Overview

• From my experience, Mega Venusaur is actually quite underrated in the tier. Packing only two weaknesses, Latios and Talonflame are the only truly common things that threaten it for OHKOs (Latios can be EVd for as well), and a lot of common teams have trouble breaking through it if an endgame with Megasaur is set up correctly. While it is true it needs more specific support than Kanga per se, if given that support it can be just as effective. To say its "outclassed" isn't really that true of a statement.
• It is worth noting one of Venusaur's biggest downfalls (and greatest strengths) is Sleep Powder. A shaky 75% accuracy leaves you susceptible to repeatedly missing which can be a very large issue, especially on offensive variants.

LO Venusaur

• With Jolly Choice Scarf Lando-T is becoming more and more common, being able to beat it is imo an important benchmark. A spread of 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spe with a Modest nature accomplishes this while also hitting a LO number to minimize LO recoil.
• Leaf Storm is a very notable option, which nets the OHKO on Rotom-W and has a solid chance to OHKO Lando-T and Dragon Dance Tyranitar in sand. It does hurt Venusaur's longevity (if it even has any) considerably, though

Venusaur-Mega

• The spread I use on Megasaur (and the one I recommend) is 252 HP / 20 Def / 156 SpA / 80 SpD with a Bold nature. This allows Venusaur to survive a LO Latios Psychic and LO Adamant Talonflame Brave Bird respectively with remaining EVs into SpA. I personally don't see much need to runfor speed on MSaur as its goal is typically to stay around for forever, so the more bulk the better. If you are using Sleep Powder I can see the speed potentially having some key use, though relying on a 75% accurate move to cripple something you have to switch out of afterwards doesn't seem that effective anyways.
• Leech Seed and Synthesis over Sleep Powder and / or Protect are both worthy of slashes on this set. Both extend Venusaur's longevity which can often be a key factor in its success.

Team Options

• The biggest priority here is answers to Heatran and Talonburd. They are without question the mons that give Venusaur the most trouble, one threatening a OHKO if running CB, the other completely walling most sets. Landorus-T and Rotom-W are two very good partners for this reason (tho they are good partners for just about everything but still). Psychic-type checks are also appreciated, so things like Bisharp and Hydreigon can make solid partners as well. In general offensive answers tend to be more effective than defensive answers (defensive is still important ofc), which should be noted.

Other Options

• HP Ice and Ground are also notable for good damage on Lando-T (as well as Dragons in general) and Heatran respectively
• Drop Leech Seed assuming its slashed onto MVenu as its more or less trash on the LO set
• String Shot could be effective on Megasaur as it provides solid spread control (sorta borderline on this though)
• Not sure on Growth as Venusaur doesn't usually last long enough to make use of it, and its coverage between two slots isn't really that solid

Checks & Counters

• Certain things that counter Venusaur may not counter Mega Venusaur, so keep note of that I guess =/
• In general make sure to specify that speed control, Trick Room, and opposing weather barely phaze MSaur if at all
• Latios and Latias are solid all around checks, and Kyurem-B does pretty well against non-Mega Venusaur, especially if it packs Substitute and can get it up

 

[Mizuhime]

updated lmk if i missed anything k thx bby

 

[Audiosurfer]

one thing i'll say is add string shot in OO. also, mention tyranitar as a partner for mega venusaur, since they have good defensive synergy and tyranitar can handle tflame & tran fairly well. other than that this looks pretty decent (jw though does Trick Room get its own Checks and Counter tag? Pretty sure it should be classified under a different tag unless im mistaken)

qc 2/3

 

[Lolk]

Yea trick room goes in speed control

 

[Darkmalice]

Change the EV spread to 252 HP / 132 Def / 44 SpA / 80 SpD with a Modest nature

This spread has the same Def stat as Nollan's spread (315), but has one extra SpA point (320 instead of 319).

In OO, mention that Earthquake is inferior to HP Ground. HP Ground deals more damage to Heatran than EQ thanks to the spread reduction, with both normal Ven and Mega Ven. Other bonuses of HP Ground including hitting Bisharp harder, not being weakened by Intimidate or burn, and hitting Bisharp harder.

Add KCube to offensive type advantage. It has Sub to block Sleep Powder, Modest Ice Beam has a 56.3% chance to OHKO the normal Venusaur with its current spread, and 2HKOes Mega Ven with Mold Breaker hitting through Thick Fat.

Will give a proper check when this is written up

 

[Mizuhime]

going to write this up tonight

 

[Mizuhime]

im bad and will actually write this tomorrow

 

[Mizuhime]

http://pastebin.com/YAfgwPi3 actually writing this now, just leaving it here so i can sleep zzz

 

[Lolk]

Mizuhime