Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

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Aragorn the King

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Gonna be honest, the only reason of any note to use blindest over Chaney, is knock off. If your team can't afford to have its items removed, - in the event you lack a mega, lack a mega capable of taking on common kock off users or in the event your mega Is koed, then blissey is preferred over Chaney. You loose much as you gained with evolute Chaney if you loose the item, while leftovers for blissey is not nearly as a huge loss. Leftovers recovery and acess to bolt beam and thrower are mainly bonuses to this fact.
The thing is that Blissey can't take a Knock Off well, and loses its leftovers, which is the only possible reason to consider Blissey. A Blissey without Leftovers is just a worse Chansey, and a Blissey with them is still a worse Chansey. Bolt Beam doesn't really matter when they're so weak, but I'll give you that you can handle Gliscor with them. Chansey and Blissey are used on teams to be bulky clerics that dgaf about status, and Chansey accomplishes this niche infinitely better.
 
Even if Knock Off is in play, Blissey is still inferior to Chansey. It is just simply better in terms of bulk. They do the exact same thing. Almost any Pokemon wouldn't like their item to be knocked off. Knock Off alone isn't a reason not use Chansey but to use Blissey. I think like the others and I think I'm with them on Blissey to D Rank.
 
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But stats do mean something.

Blissey's defensive stats: 255/10/135
Chansey's: 250/31/180

Chansey is a fantastic mixed wall, and can do its job whenever as long as the opponent doesn't have a STAB Fighting Move, a coverage Focus, Punch, or Knock Off.
Chansey can function against any other physical move, while blissey collapses to them all.

252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 216-255 (33.6 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 520-613 (79.8 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 518-612 (80.8 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 708-834 (108.7 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 295-348 (45.3 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 381-448 (59.4 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Chansey can take any physical move well, while Blissey gets 2HKO'd by basically every one. Yes, their movepools and abilities are identical, but Blissey's poor stats compared to Chansey's prevent Blissey from doing anything to differentiate them.
Chansey can complete it's job against more targets. Thats the only thing it has over Blissey. Really, Blissey is still the second bulkiest Specially defensive pokemon. It is by no means horrible. And these stats are also not poor. It is still good, it can still wall every Special Attacker not carrying Psyschock. It can still pass huge Wishes and do the cleric role. Blissey is worse than Chansey, but it is not bad at all. Just Outclassed.
 

Aragorn the King

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Chansey can complete it's job against more targets. Thats the only thing it has over Blissey. Really, Blissey is still the second bulkiest Specially defensive pokemon. It is by no means horrible. And these stats are also not poor. It is still good, it can still wall every Special Attacker not carrying Psyschock. It can still pass huge Wishes and do the cleric role. Blissey is worse than Chansey, but it is not bad at all. Just Outclassed.
Sylveon isn't horrible. It's just outclassed. Machamp isn't horrible. It's just outclassed. All outclassed pokemon have tiny things that prevent them from being 100% useless over their better counterparts, but they shouldn't be ranked, due to there practically always being a better solution. Blissey is bulky, yes, but Chansey does what Blissey does better.
blissey is better on a sand team
Chansey takes less damage than Blissey from any attack.

252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 216-255 (33.6 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 518-612 (80.8 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 381-448 (59.4 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 295-348 (45.3 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 708-834 (108.7 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 520-613 (79.8 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
In all these examples, Chansey is taking ≈14% less damage. In Sandstorm, blissey's HP remains constant, but Chansey's goes down by 6.25%, so in the end, Chansey will still have 7.75% more HP, and thus will able to Wish Pass, Wish Heal, use Heal Bell, and take further hits more easily than Blissey.
 
The thing is that Blissey can't take a Knock Off well, and loses its leftovers, which is the only possible reason to consider Blissey. A Blissey without Leftovers is just a worse Chansey, and a Blissey with them is still a worse Chansey. Bolt Beam doesn't really matter when they're so weak, but I'll give you that you can handle Gliscor with them. Chansey and Blissey are used on teams to be bulky clerics that dgaf about status, and Chansey accomplishes this niche infinitely better.
I never said it could, I was merly pointing out the facts of blissey's niche. It's unquestionably true that blissey int h absence of an item is superior to chansey, in raw stats alone, as I said the reason to use blissey is primarily to make the worst of a bad situation, in which your team dislikes having it's items knocked off and special wall of the chansey like variety is required. It's not as a case of picking blissey because it handle knock off better, it does, but it's pretty poor situation for it to loose it's item. It's simply a case of picking the lesser of two evils and that's blissey's small niche over chansey int he metagame and as i mentioned everything else aka elemental beams and leftovers recovery, is simply a bonus.
 

Aragorn the King

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I never said it could, I was merly pointing out the facts of blissey's niche. It's unquestionably true that blissey int h absence of an item is superior to chansey, in raw stats alone, as I said the reason to use blissey is primarily to make the worst of a bad situation, in which your team dislikes having it's items knocked off and special wall of the chansey like variety is required. It's not as a case of picking blissey because it handle knock off better, it does, but it's pretty poor situation for it to loose it's item. It's simply a case of picking the lesser of two evils and that's blissey's small niche over chansey int he metagame and as i mentioned everything else aka elemental beams and leftovers recovery, is simply a bonus.
But neither Blissey nor Chansey should ever have their items Knocked Off. If they do, you didn't play well. Plus, Blissey gets demolished by most Knock Offs/Knock Off users. Blissey's passive recovery is offset by Chansey taking 14% less damage from basically every hit, and its bolt beam coverage doesn't matter that much when Seismic Toss is usually enough for a defensive pokemon.

Would you at least agree to dropping it? Blissey being in C+ is misleading; it doesn't have enough good qualities to warrant being in the same place as good Pokemon with strong niches.
 
I honestly think C+ Rank is fine for Blissey. As part of the C Rank description, Pokemon in those ranks are allowed to be outclassed by Pokemon in the higher ranks without falling further. Blissey has very little reason to be used over Chansey, but it's still a solid Pokemon. If it weren't for the Eviolite, Blissey would be in a much higher rank doing pretty much everything that Chansey does now. The difference between Blissey and something like Donphan is that Donphan is actually a very mediocre Pokemon. It has quite a wide variety of flaws that easily outweigh its perks, and it's overshadowed in the various roles it can perform by a lot more than just one Pokemon. Blissey is overshadowed by literally just one thing, Chansey, and it would be an unmatched special wall if it weren't for Chansey. I could maybe see it dropping to C Rank just because of how much Chansey outclasses it at pretty much everything, but putting it in D Rank is too harsh when it's really not a bad Pokemon by any means.
 
But neither Blissey nor Chansey should ever have their items Knocked Off. If they do, you didn't play well. Plus, Blissey gets demolished by most Knock Offs/Knock Off users. Blissey's passive recovery is offset by Chansey taking 14% less damage from basically every hit, and its bolt beam coverage doesn't matter that much when Seismic Toss is usually enough for a defensive pokemon.

Would you at least agree to dropping it? Blissey being in C+ is misleading; it doesn't have enough good qualities to warrant being in the same place as good Pokemon with strong niches.
as i said, i never said either liked getting tehir item knocked off and it is the case and a fact blisey getting knocked off by random users of the move or in the event that allowing another pokemon to have their item knocked off is inappropriate. I do get what your saying, getting an item knocked off on these pokemon is normaly carelessness or random pokemon with the move, but there are times in which your not not going to have much of a choice and loosing evolite on chansey is as i have said much more damaging than leftovers on blissey.

As for as rank is concerned i never mentioned it, but giving ti some thought would make more inclined to agree with lowering blissey to C or possibly on the bias of how situational and small this niche can be, but i would love to hear others opinions on the arguments for keeping blissey on this basis.
 

Aragorn the King

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I honestly think C+ Rank is fine for Blissey. As part of the C Rank description, Pokemon in those ranks are allowed to be outclassed by Pokemon in the higher ranks without falling further. Blissey has very little reason to be used over Chansey, but it's still a solid Pokemon. If it weren't for the Eviolite, Blissey would be in a much higher rank doing pretty much everything that Chansey does now. The difference between Blissey and something like Donphan is that Donphan is actually a very mediocre Pokemon. It has quite a wide variety of flaws that easily outweigh its perks, and it's overshadowed in the various roles it can perform by a lot more than just one Pokemon. Blissey is overshadowed by literally just one thing, Chansey, and it would be an unmatched special wall if it weren't for Chansey. I could maybe see it dropping to C Rank just because of how much Chansey outclasses it at pretty much everything, but putting it in D Rank is too harsh when it's really not a bad Pokemon by any means.
But what about Florges? Or Machamp? They're both solid Pokemon, worthy of C+ at least, but are heavily outclassed and as such are, rightly, D rank and unranked, respectively. Sure, on its own merits, Blissey deserves C+, B even. But, when you compare it to chansey, its worth in the metagame drastically drops, as it does with Florges, Machamp, Arcanine, and Donphan, who alone aren't bad, but in comparison to Sylveon, Clefable, Conkeldurr, Entei, Charizard, Heatran, Excadrill, Starmie, and Blastoise are terrible.
 
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But what about Florges? Or Machamp? They're both solid Pokemon, worthy of C+ at least, but are heavily outclassed and as such are D rank and unranked, respectively. Sure, on its own merits, Blissey deserves C+, B even. But, when you compare it to chansey, its worth in the metagame drastically drops, as it does with Florges, Machamp, Arcanine, and Donphan, who alone aren't bad, but in comparison to Sylveon, Clefable, Conkeldurr, Entei, Charizard, Heatran, Excadrill, Starmie, and Blastoise are terrible.
I honestly wouldn't mind seeing Florges in C- Rank or something myself, but the rest of those actually are bad, lol. They all have a lot of flaws and very small niches that aren't worth it most of the time. It would take a lot of changes in the metagame and the removal of a lot competition before Machamp, Arcanine, and Donphan became good. In Blissey's case, literally the only thing holding it back is the existence of Chansey. If it weren't for that, Blissey would be the best special wall in the metagame and a staple on stall teams just like Chansey is now. That's the difference between Blissey and the other D Rank Pokemon.
 

Aragorn the King

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I honestly wouldn't mind seeing Florges in C- Rank or something myself, but the rest of those actually are bad, lol. They all have a lot of flaws and very small niches that aren't worth it most of the time. It would take a lot of changes in the metagame and removal of competition before they'd become good. In Blissey's case, literally the only thing holding it back is the existence of Chansey. If it weren't for that, Blissey would be the best special wall in the metagame and a staple on stall teams just like Chansey is now. That's the difference between Blissey and the other D Rank Pokemon.
I've always thought Florges should be C ranked, as it can be effective, given the right support. However, it is completely over shadowed. It fits the definition, although this thread is meant to tell people what to use. Florges should never ever be used, because Sylveon is always better. Ditto with Blissey and Chansey. I guess by definition both should be C rank, but I don't think that's right. Both are fine Pokemon that never should be used due to being outclassed. Can both be used well? Absolutely. They each would be the two best clerics in the game, but because of the existence of Sylveon and Chansey, they don't have any place on a team. I really wish the definition were changed, as it can easily be misinterpreted that completely outclassed Pokemon, like Blissey, can be worth using, and are of the same level of viability as threats that aren't outclassed. Blissey is good, but completely unviable.
 

Karxrida

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I honestly wouldn't mind seeing Florges in C- Rank or something myself, but the rest of those actually are bad, lol. They all have a lot of flaws and very small niches that aren't worth it most of the time. It would take a lot of changes in the metagame and the removal of a lot competition before Machamp, Arcanine, and Donphan became good. In Blissey's case, literally the only thing holding it back is the existence of Chansey. If it weren't for that, Blissey would be the best special wall in the metagame and a staple on stall teams just like Chansey is now. That's the difference between Blissey and the other D Rank Pokemon.
Florges isn't ranked because a.) it's blacklisted and b.) no point when virtually everything it does is done better by Sylveon. Blissey at least has a niche that Chansey can't fit and has some situational advantages over it that qualifies it to be ranked.
 
The reason why Blissey is not completely outclassed by Chansey is this:
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 142-169 (19.8 - 23.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

While Chansey do this
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 121-142 (17.1 - 20.1%) -- possible 5HKO

There are three reason why Blissey is an advantage position over Chansey:
-Because Blissey can switch in random Knock Off from pokemon like Thundurus, Deoxys-S or Mandibuzz without being that crippled, because Blissey loses 6,25% of recovery, Chansey loses 33% of her defenses.
-Blisseys take 6,25% of recovery with leftovers. Meaning that she works equal or better against a lot of special attacker (the pink blobs are special walls) only because of them. This also means that Blissey is better against Tyranitar and Hippowdon Sand Stream (they are in a respectable amount of teams), Burn (only 6,25% and after Leftovers), Poison (standard poison does only 6,25% and toxic posion does 6,255 net less every turn), Leech Seed and entry hazards like Stealth Rock.
-The surprise of having an coverage attack in his arsenal, that can give some surprises to some threats that think Blissey is a free switch in. Chansey has no opportunity doing that.

The case of Florges is different: The only thing Florges has is better speed. But Sylveoin can pass higher Wish (HP is the key stat since Gen V to pass Wish), has better physiucal bulk (higher HP and identical defenses) and his special deenses is only worse by 2%. And that pixilate Hyper Voice with higher net BP and bypassing Substitute is great.

Note that Grass (what Florges has) is an horrible coverage type to Fairy while Sylveon ghets Ghost coverage which is almost perfect neutral coverage. And Florges can't pass anything to anybody.

About Machamp vs Conkeldurr, the only thing Machamp has over Conkeldurr is Dynamicpunch and a bit better special bulk while loses physical bulk, priority (has Bullet Punch but this is weak), a 100% viable Assault Vest set thanks to that And Drain Punch (Machamp can't learn it) and a bit more attack.

And about Donphan, it's a more complex case than you might think. Technically it's outclassed by four pokemon:
Donphan is only used in the mid-high ladder for people who want a bulky spinner (at least fro the most common physical side) that doesn't take a Mega slot and doesn't have glaring weakness.
-Excadrill, but has 3 desirable weakness that are commonly physical in OU that Donhan doesn't have.
-Mega Blastoise who has better defenses and Rapid Spin and offensive presence but Blastoise can't be paired of 2 of the three big reason to run an spinner: Pinsir, Charizard and Talonflame.
-Hippowdon, who is better physically and way better specially, has the annoying Sands Stream and the option of Sand Force if it hinders your team and has reliable recovery. But doesn'0t have Rapid Spin.
-Landorus-T: Has a similar type with similar weakness and overshadows it in the defensive role thanks to Intimidate, apart of 145 Base Attack. But doesn't have Rapid Spin.

There are another case of overshadowed Pokemon like Jolteon vs mega Manectric and Thundurus; Arcanine versus Entei and MCharizard X.
 
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Aragorn the King

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Florges isn't ranked because a.) it's blacklisted and b.) no point when virtually everything it does is done better by Sylveon. Blissey at least has a niche that Chansey can't fit and has some situational advantages over it that qualifies it to be ranked.
Florges has situational advantages over Sylveon that are as important as Blissey's over Chanseys': not really. However, I don't want this to just be me discussing Florges. I will say, by definition, it deserves C rank, as does Blissey. However, both are very poor pokemon to use, as they offer little to no benefits over their competition.
The reason why Blissey is not completely outclassed by Chansey is this:
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 142-169 (19.8 - 23.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

While Chansey do this
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 121-142 (17.1 - 20.1%) -- possible 5HKO

There are three reason why Blissey is an advantage position over Chansey:
-Because Blissey can switch in random Knock Off from pokemon like Thundurus, Deoxys-S or Mandibuzz without being that crippled, because Blissey loses 6,25% of recovery, Chansey loses 33% of her defenses.
-Blisseys take 6,25% of recovery with leftovers. Meaning that she works equal or better against a lot of special attacker (the pink blobs are special walls) only because of them. This also means that Blissey is better against Tyranitar and Hippowdon Sand Stream (they are in a respectable amount of teams), Burn (only 6,25% and after Leftovers), Poison (standard poison does only 6,25% and toxic posion does 6,255 net less every turn), Leech Seed and entry hazards like Stealth Rock.
-The surprise of having an coverage attack in his arsenal, that can give some surprises to some threats that think Blissey is a free switch in. Chansey has no opportunity doing that.

The case of Florges is different: The only thing Florges has is better speed. But Sylveoin can pass higher Wish (HP is the key stat since Gen V to pass Wish), has better physiucal bulk (higher HP and identical defenses) and his special deenses is only worse by 2%. And that pixilate Hyper Voice with higher net BP and bypassing Substitute is great.

Note that Grass (what Florges has) is an horrible coverage type to Fairy while Sylveon ghets Ghost coverage which is almost perfect neutral coverage. And Florges can't pass anything to anybody.
* Neither run HP investment
* Chansey takes less from every attack, making the lack of leftovers worth it
* Blissey doesn't really have room for weak attacks
* Neither should ever be in on a pokemon with knock off
* Clerical Sylveon never runs Shadow Ball

Both Pokemon are overshadowed, but can be effective. But, a C ranking is misleading for pokemon with advantages that don't matter in the long run, when your main job is to absorb hits, recover, stall, and wish pass.
 
Florges isn't ranked because a.) it's blacklisted and b.) no point when virtually everything it does is done better by Sylveon. Blissey at least has a niche that Chansey can't fit and has some situational advantages over it that qualifies it to be ranked.
I know that Florges is blacklisted, but it honestly falls under the same category as Blissey. Blissey has very, very few uses over Chansey. It can use special attacks more effectively, but that's honestly about it. The extra speed and larger Wishes are irrelevant for the most part. Likewise, Florges has very minor advantages over Sylveon such as greater special bulk and speed, but it's not enough to make it worth using over Sylveon virtually every time.

TFL: Yes, I know that Chansey almost completely outclasses Blissey. I've been arguing the same thing since BW, during which time I was one of the people arguing against the myth that Blissey is better on Sand teams. However, the C Rank description allows for Pokemon to be "completely eclipsed" by a Pokemon in the above ranks. It sounds like the main problem is the C Rank description more than it is Blissey herself.
 
isn't one of blisseys few advantages that it has a usable sp. Attk? base 75 isn't good at all but it can deter anything 4x weak from setting up with the appropriate elemental beam. For example, mega scizor completely sets up on chansey even with seismic toss while blissey can 2hko with f thrower. Surely that's at least a tiny niche?
 
isn't one of blisseys few advantages that it has a usable sp. Attk? base 75 isn't good at all but it can deter anything 4x weak from setting up with the appropriate elemental beam. For example, mega scizor completely sets up on chansey even with seismic toss while blissey can 2hko with f thrower. Surely that's at least a tiny niche?
Chansey / Blissey rarely runs anything to damage outside of Seismic Toss and Toxic. Those moves are useless for the roles that the two have.
 
Chansey / Blissey rarely runs anything to damage outside of Seismic Toss and Toxic. Those moves are useless for the roles that the two have.
literally the first listed for blisseys set last Gen ran flamethrower. And if chansey could I'm pretty sure it would run an elemental beam if it could over siesmic toss. Also, I fail to see how having an offensive moves are useless for it's role. That's like saying its bad for skarm to run brave bird or mandibuzz shouldn't run foul play.
 

Aragorn the King

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I know that Florges is blacklisted, but it honestly falls under the same category as Blissey. Blissey has very, very few uses over Chansey. It can use special attacks more effectively, but that's honestly about it. The extra speed and larger Wishes are irrelevant for the most part. Likewise, Florges has very minor advantages over Sylveon such as greater special bulk and speed, but it's not enough to make it worth using over Sylveon virtually every time.

TFL: Yes, I know that Chansey almost completely outclasses Blissey. I've been arguing the same thing since BW, during which time I was one of the people arguing against the myth that Blissey is better on Sand teams. However, the C Rank description allows for Pokemon to be "completely eclipsed" by a Pokemon in the above ranks. It sounds like the main problem is the C Rank description more than it is Blissey herself.
Thank you. I think all the definitions are immensely flawed, most notably the C rank one and the D rank one. Blissey is terrible, but I guess it does fit the definition of C better. I guess C- is best for it (and Florges and Machamp tbh). However, the problem with this is that Pokemon currently in D Rank, Whimsicott and Exploud, are so much better than the two and have well crafted niches. Even the almost entirely outclassed pokemon in D rank, like Tentacruel and Empoleon, are better than Blissey and Florges, as their niches are more important. However, they're forced into D rank due to a technicality, while by definition, they deserve C rank. Pokemon in D rank should be there for having unimportant niches, like Weezing and Mawile, while most of them are there just because they're outclassed, and thus deserve C rank, by definition. Can we please have someone rewrite them so that all outclassed pokemon are below pokemon with actual niches?
isn't one of blisseys few advantages that it has a usable sp. Attk? base 75 isn't good at all but it can deter anything 4x weak from setting up with the appropriate elemental beam. For example, mega scizor completely sets up on chansey even with seismic toss while blissey can 2hko with f thrower. Surely that's at least a tiny niche?
Seismic toss is the most common move on Blissey. Flamethrower is the most common actual attack, and it only has 10% usage. The special attack is theoretically useful, but is only worth it if blissey is reliably facing specially offensive pokemon, with low special defense, that are 4x weak to Blissey's one special move. It's a tiny niche, but still, Chansey is a better choice for a teamslot
 
Thats the whole problem with these viability rankings. Basicly every pokemon has something over another that gives it a niche. In Blisseys case its mostly the ability to run Flamethrower and thats a rather good thing to have as it has much more utility than Toxic imo. But finncent1 is right, the situation with Blissey is basicly the same as with florges, arcanine, and machamp and therefor it should be D rank at most, everything else would be inconsequent.
 
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Thank you. I think all the definitions are immensely flawed, most notably the C rank one and the D rank one. Blissey is terrible, but I guess it does fit the definition of C better. I guess C- is best for it (and Florges and Machamp tbh). However, the problem with this is that Pokemon currently in D Rank, Whimsicott and Exploud, are so much better than the two and have well crafted niches. Even the almost entirely outclassed pokemon in D rank, like Tentacruel and Empoleon, are better than Blissey and Florges, as their niches are more important. However, they're forced into D rank due to a technicality, while by definition, they deserve C rank. Pokemon in D rank should be there for having unimportant niches, like Weezing and Mawile, while most of them are there just because they're outclassed, and thus deserve C rank, by definition. Can we please have someone rewrite them so that all outclassed pokemon are below pokemon with actual niches?

Seismic toss is the most common move on Blissey. Flamethrower is the most common actual attack, and it only has 10% usage. The special attack is theoretically useful, but is only worth it if blissey is reliably facing specially offensive pokemon, with low special defense, that are 4x weak to Blissey's one special move. It's a tiny niche, but still, Chansey is a better choice for a teamslot
that's all I was getting at. Blisseys only notable niches are leftovers recovery not being crippled by knock off and acedd to the beams, if so desired. Personally I feel it should be ranked, but definetly nowhere near chanseys level
 
Bringing back Gastrodon and Barbaracle for discussion.
Gastrodon can check VolTurn and any Thundurus lacking Grass Knot, as its Ground typing is the only reason to use it over Rotom-W. It can also check some rain threats due to Storm Drain. Its physical bulk and Recover grant it uses as a tank. However, weakness to Toxic and iffy offenses can really hurt. C Rank imo.

Barbaracle can really wreck havoc after a smash, that 108 Speed is required for a scarfer to outspeed it at +2. Tough Claws along with Water + Rock STABs already providing decent coverage alone. Its main concern is its priority weakness and anything it can't land SE hits on, and being forced to choose between elminating Aegislash or eliminating Ferrothorn. C Rank imo.
 

Aragorn the King

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Bringing back Gastrodon and Barbaracle for discussion.
Oh yeah, you're right. Seismitoed, Gastrodon, and Barbaracle are still the only pokemon that need to get ranked.

1. Wasn't Gastrodon previously ranked at C+? It'd seem weird for alexwolf to remove it entirely without mention, especially 'cuz it's analyzed. Everything you mention is correct, and I think reliably beating Kabutopps + Electric Types + water types lacking Grass coverage is very useful. C+

Also
252 SpA Thundurus Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 208-248 (48.8 - 58.2%) -- 61.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Gastrodon can still manage against Thundurus, if need be.

2. Barbaracle is very powerful, decently bulky, and decently fast, but isn't exceptional at anything, is weak to priority, and relies on inaccurate moves. C rank seems best, as it still is a threat.

3. Seismitoed is relatively weak, but Rain boosted Hydro Pumps still hit reasonable hard. It has good bulk and amazing speed, but the best part is that it's a Rain Sweeper immune to electric moves, including Thunderwave, which is immensely helpful. Its Hydro Pump KO's Thundurus after rocks, and as such it's very useful on rain teams. I think C+ suits it.
 
I sort of think the C-Rank definition should be changed to this.

Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, and have a unique or semi-unique niche, but are hindered by crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy. Pokemon in this category are often eclipsed by members of higher ranks.

Pokemon in D-Rank are defined as having a niche while those in C are not. As mentioned earlier, it's actually sort of better to be D-rank then C at the moment.
 
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